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Does Harold deserve to be picked on by Duncan and Courtney so much?

Does Harold deserve to be picked on so much?

  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [281]Oct 5, 2009
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    Duncan may have been a little distracted by picking up a child from a ball pit, but ultimately, distractions like that are a part of reality show twists. Courtney won because she refused to give him an edge. That's how you win these shows.

    As for the superhero challenges, it's quite possible that Harold not stopping to talk to the potato sack might have given him a victory. That's utterly irrelevant. The point is, he did in fact do that. Courtney was the superior camper in that challenges. End of discussion.

    Until Courtney actually cheats, I'm going to swing my condemnation mallet on Harold for actually cheating rather then Courtney calling her lawyers. What she plans is irrevelant compared to what she actually does.

    There's no reason for Courtney to improvise. They are her wire-cutters, and no one was using them since Lindsay had finished with them. What's wrong with using a pair of wire-cutters to cut a wire?

    No one should ever, at all, be praising Harold for being a "protagonist" because when it comes down to it, no one has cheated on Total Drama Island besides him. Sure, Duncan's a jerk, but nothing he does has broken the rules of the competition. Heather was super cruel, but everything she did was within the rules of the show. Courtney bends the rules and skirts the gray area, but she has never broken them. Harold, on the other hand, cheated. The fact that he was picked on is irrelevant, it just goes to show what people will hypocritically defend cheating in one place and call someone else a cheater just because they like them. It's ridiculous how people blame Duncan for getting Courtney kicked off. It was, start to finish, Harold. Accept it. Quit whining that he had a motive. Courtney has a motive for everything she does too: she wants to win.

    Further, this show is a competition with only one victory. A betrayal is neither rare nor surprising. Why should Courtney be criticized for playing the game as it was intended to be?

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  • Avatar of shishkabob999

    shishkabob999

    [282]Oct 5, 2009
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    One problem with your theory, Brainman, is that there are no rules. Duncan may have "cheated" in the caveman challenge by using a lighter when you couldn't. But Chris never called Harold out on the show, and let him get away with it, even after it became known. Hell, he breaks his own rules and brought Izzy and Eva back.

    And obviously Courtney isn't playing the game "as it was intended to be" when she came back when Chris said that anyone who didn't land in the dock lost any opportunity to win the million (of course, she didn't technically "break the rules" either, as Chris is obviously bringing sidelined people back for TDM).
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  • Avatar of alagaesian

    alagaesian

    [283]Oct 5, 2009
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    Despite the fact that Harold's vote switching caused her to get into the final eight in the first place? By switching the votes, Harold took away Courtney's 1-in-12 chance at a hundred grand, and advanced his chances of winning from 1-in-12 to 1-in-11. But, because of her lawsuit, Courtney turned this lost 1-in-12 chance at 100,000 into a new 1-in-8 chance at a million. And, she gained a bunch of special privileges that are probably going to give her a few challenge wins in the remainder of the game, if they haven't already.

    So now she's back in the game, but still hates Harold as much as ever and has no real reason behind it. Because of Harold's cheating, she, in effect, gained a better chance at winning a larger sum of money. And, think twice before saying, "It's the thought that counts," about his cheating, because he was meaning to hurt DUNCAN, not her. If we're going to go by who people were TRYING to hurt, then Courtney had no authority to beat him senseless with a lamppost. He wasn't trying to do anything to her.

    Duncan's entire reason behind tormenting Harold in TDA is that Harold got rid of Courtney. Now Courtney's back, and Duncan was ready to vote Harold's girl off to spite him. Duncan is willing to do the exact same things that Harold has done, except it's coupled with numerous threats and pranks and other unethical junk. Harold is at least more of a protagonist than Duncan.

    Not to mention that Harold has done things of a very protagonistic nature throughout the second season. He's given undeserving people second chances (Heather in TDDDDI, Duncan in Full Metal Drama, LeShawna in Million Dollar Babies). He stressed the ideals of teamwork in Full Metal Drama as well. Anyone who tries to say he is not a protagonist in TDA either hasn't watched the show or is extremely biased, in my opinion.
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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [284]Oct 5, 2009
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    alagaesian wrote:
    Despite the fact that Harold's vote switching caused her to get into the final eight in the first place? By switching the votes, Harold took away Courtney's 1-in-12 chance at a hundred grand, and advanced his chances of winning from 1-in-12 to 1-in-11. But, because of her lawsuit, Courtney turned this lost 1-in-12 chance at 100,000 into a new 1-in-8 chance at a million. And, she gained a bunch of special privileges that are probably going to give her a few challenge wins in the remainder of the game, if they haven't already. So now she's back in the game, but still hates Harold as much as ever and has no real reason behind it. Because of Harold's cheating, she, in effect, gained a better chance at winning a larger sum of money. And, think twice before saying, "It's the thought that counts," about his cheating, because he was meaning to hurt DUNCAN, not her. If we're going to go by who people were TRYING to hurt, then Courtney had no authority to beat him senseless with a lamppost. He wasn't trying to do anything to her. Duncan's entire reason behind tormenting Harold in TDA is that Harold got rid of Courtney. Now Courtney's back, and Duncan was ready to vote Harold's girl off to spite him. Duncan is willing to do the exact same things that Harold has done, except it's coupled with numerous threats and pranks and other unethical junk. Harold is at least more of a protagonist than Duncan. Not to mention that Harold has done things of a very protagonistic nature throughout the second season. He's given undeserving people second chances (Heather in TDDDDI, Duncan in Full Metal Drama, LeShawna in Million Dollar Babies). He stressed the ideals of teamwork in Full Metal Drama as well. Anyone who tries to say he is not a protagonist in TDA either hasn't watched the show or is extremely biased, in my opinion.

    Courtney getting into TDA does not excuse Harold. In the slightest. What she did with means nothing as far as Harold's actions are concerned. She has a perfecctly legitimate reason for hating Harold: He cheated and voted her off. It makes no difference that she got back into the game, she still has a right to hate him for it. If Harold apologized to Courtney, at the very least, I'd be willing to call Courtney out on being vindictive. However, Harold has never expressed remorse to her. He did to the camera, but not to her.

    It's also irrelevant who Harold was trying to hurt with the vote-switching. Courtney was the one who was affected by it no matter who Harold was trying to hurt. She's entitled to revenge until Harold performs pennance.

    Do you have any evidence that proves Duncan voted out LeShawna just to spite Harold? Recall that Duncan was quite angry with her for her comments in "Million Dollar Babies", he considered LeShawna a threat, and he was trying to deflect attention away from Courtney. Duncan gets his revenge on Harold by pranking him.

    Harold is certianly no "good guy" certainly no more then LeShawna, who also espoused teamwork, and Heather, who also didn't show malice to Leshawna.

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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [285]Oct 5, 2009
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    shishkabob999 wrote:
    One problem with your theory, Brainman, is that there are no rules. Duncan may have "cheated" in the caveman challenge by using a lighter when you couldn't. But Chris never called Harold out on the show, and let him get away with it, even after it became known. Hell, he breaks his own rules and brought Izzy and Eva back.

    And obviously Courtney isn't playing the game "as it was intended to be" when she came back when Chris said that anyone who didn't land in the dock lost any opportunity to win the million (of course, she didn't technically "break the rules" either, as Chris is obviously bringing sidelined people back for TDM).

    So then, if there are no rules, why is everyone whining that Courtney gets special privleges if they aren't against the rules? Why are people complaining that she's ruthless and willing to risk leaving the others in a building that might blow up (recall that Courtney didn't believe Chris would actually blow the building up) when that's not against the rules either?

    And you seem to be confusing "as it was intended to be." The game is intended to be a competition, and anything goes in order to get the million. LeShawna's willing to cry croccidile tears, Justin's willing to manipulate Beth, Duncan's willing to prank. Anything goes. Courtney's weapon is Michael.

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  • Avatar of alagaesian

    alagaesian

    [286]Oct 6, 2009
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    And Harold is willing to cheat. You're saying anything goes, and yet you're attacking Harold for doing just that.

    And, technically, Heather shouldn't be a villain by your definition either, even in TDI. She was just playing the game. She was ruthless, nasty, bossy, and a megalomaniac, but it was her way of competing, right?

    As for Duncan voting off LeShawna to spite Harold, Duncan gave Harold a really suspicious look when he suggested voting off LeShawna in the first place. I took that to mean he knew exactly what it was going to do to Harold, and that it was a contributing factor in why he suggested her elimination in the first place. Interpret the show how you want, but that is what I thought the first time I saw it.
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  • Avatar of Brodoin15

    Brodoin15

    [287]Oct 6, 2009
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    shishkabob999 wrote:
    One problem with your theory, Brainman, is that there are no rules. Duncan may have "cheated" in the caveman challenge by using a lighter when you couldn't. But Chris never called Harold out on the show, and let him get away with it, even after it became known. Hell, he breaks his own rules and brought Izzy and Eva back.

    And obviously Courtney isn't playing the game "as it was intended to be" when she came back when Chris said that anyone who didn't land in the dock lost any opportunity to win the million (of course, she didn't technically "break the rules" either, as Chris is obviously bringing sidelined people back for TDM).

    So then, if there are no rules, why is everyone whining that Courtney gets special privleges if they aren't against the rules? Why are people complaining that she's ruthless and willing to risk leaving the others in a building that might blow up (recall that Courtney didn't believe Chris would actually blow the building up) when that's not against the rules either?

    And you seem to be confusing "as it was intended to be." The game is intended to be a competition, and anything goes in order to get the million. LeShawna's willing to cry croccidile tears, Justin's willing to manipulate Beth, Duncan's willing to prank. Anything goes. Courtney's weapon is Michael.

    Well, the reason I think Courtney's rules are unfair is because no other player has a way of getting those things. Anyone can cheat. Even the nicest person on the game can cheat. As you said, Justin manipulates, Duncan pranks, yet no one can get the special things Courtney does.

    Also, Courtney and Duncan need to let go of the past. Yes Harold cheated Courtney out of a chance of winning, but both of them got into TDA, and Courtney herself has several bonuses that no one else possesses. Even if Harold said he was sorry, I doubt it'd stop anything.

    And eye for an eye equals nothing. Revenge doesn't solve anything.

    Edited on 10/06/2009 8:39am
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  • Avatar of KarmaGoddess11

    KarmaGoddess11

    [288]Oct 6, 2009
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    There really is no excuse for the bullying that Harold receives. Duncan loves to try to make excuses, but when you look at his actions they are obviously nothing but pretense. He raised his fist threateningly at Harold in the first episode of TDI, made Harold pee-himself in his sleep during the third episode and pointed it out to everyone, and drew on Harold's face. This was all long before he created the excuse of Harold's underwear being left around, and spent an entire episode bullying Harold. Even after Harold promises to never do it again, Duncan continues with making Harold drink oil, feeding him his underwear again, giving him wedgies, and sticking peanut butter in his bed.

    Harold is wrong to bring Courtney into the matter, but it's pretty understandable that a character can make mistakes when upset. Harold obviously was upset and frustrated, and this becomes his one truly unethical action.

    Duncan continues to bully Harold in TDA, but now he uses the excuse of Harold having voted off Courtney--not that he stops when Courtney comes back. It's just another justification that Duncan's hiding behind for behaviors which Duncan started back at the very beginning of TDI. The truth is that Duncan gets a laugh out of being a jerk to people. He's a bully; that's what they do. He unscrewed the lids on Trent's salt and pepper shakers in Beach Blanket Bogus; in Sand Witch Project he admits to standing outside a kindergarten covered in fake blood and giving a dozen kids seizures. Also, in Beach Blanket Bogus Duncan rationalizes dismantling the bus because he's "always been more of a dismantler than a builder", and Gwen calls him on it because he really just likes to "stir up the stuff". Duncan laughs, doesn't deny it, and says they should disconnect the horn too.

    Duncan frequently behaves unethically without the slightest repentence. He doesn't need provocation, and he started the entire conflict with his bullying.

    Courtney is just as ethically challenged as Duncan. You can pretend that with no rules everything is permissable, but just because something can't be penalized in the game doesn't make the action ethical or morally sound. Courtney is rude to everyone, and then she blames them for not putting her on the same pestal she places herself on. It's easy to make fun of Lindsay for smelling like cheese, but Courtney doesn't like it when it's pointed out that she doesn't smell any better. She uses her lawyers to secure unethical advantages for herself, though she'd be screaming bloody murder if anyone else had that special treatment instead of her. She would threaten to sue the show. She's a nasty person who is willing to pretend to kiss her boyfriend and then kick him in the nuts instead to win a challenge. Were the situation reversed, she'd again have threatened to sue.

    Whether the competition has rules or not, society does have ethics. The golden rule of treating others the way you wish to be treated yourself is an axiom around the world. In reality shows, people frequently break this rule, but it doesn't make them look better for having done so. They look like slime, and people across the world talk about them negatively.

    Harold broke it once in anger and frustration; it's a mistake he hasn't repeated. Duncan breaks it constantly for his own amusement. Courtney breaks it constantly for money and ego. To pretend that Duncan and Courtney have any moral high ground to justify their continued persecution of Harold is laughable. Harold is obviously a protagonist for trying to adhere to the ethical treatment of others. Courtney and Duncan are obviously antagonists for having no desire to adhere to the ethical treatment of others.

    Edited on 10/06/2009 2:13pm
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    HaydenAvery

    [289]Oct 6, 2009
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    karmagoddess makes very good points. and brainman when justin suggested booting courtney duncan went and said to get out leshawna just to get harold worked up. of course duncan made up an excuse just as he did when he ruthlessly kicked out bridgette. much to geoffs disdain.
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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [290]Oct 6, 2009
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    Hold the phone a moment. I never once stated that there was no rules. I was pointing out the illogic of saying Harold's cheating didn't break the rules because there are none, and yet, Courtney is accused of breaking the supposedly existing rules.

    The simple reason why Harold is not excused for being picked on in TDA is simple: Courtney's return had nothing to do with him. Harold didn't bring Courtney back, she brought herself back. Her return does not exonerate him.

    You cry and moan about Courtney would be complaining if someone else got special treatment, but there is no evidence to support this. At all. Ever. She used the weapon she had, just as you all claim Harold used the weapon he had. Other then calling her lawyers, she did absolutely nothing when things didn't go her way. Calling her lawyers has nothing to do with suing.

    Further, the purpose of the show is to win the competition. Anything goes as long as it's permitted by the rules. Duncan using the lighter was not permitted, there was nothing wrong with Courtney using violence to win a challenge where, surprise surprise, the challenge was to be won with violence.

    Harold does NOT adhere to the ethical treatment of others. Where, on earth did you get that? Aside from cheating off Courtney, all he does it talk about his mad skillz. Hell, he was picked last by Gwen and Trent (over Heather and Duncan), not to mention he was completely unhygenic.

    Face it, it's all just whiny fluff because people like Harold and are willing to forgive him when he has performed no pennance. No where did I state Courtney was morally superior to Harold: I just it's not immoral to blame Courtney for using her lawyers since it's within the rules.

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    HaydenAvery

    [291]Oct 6, 2009
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    however these rules are unfair. chris will bend anything in order to not get sued in fear of his luxuries getting taken away. so what if gwen or trent doesnt care to pick him? they hardly know him. and trent just picked a bunch of gophers since they were friends. theres no doubt in my mind courtney would of been picked last instead had she been there!
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    Brodoin15

    [292]Oct 6, 2009
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    Unless I missed something, Harold hasn't talked about his "mad skills" for several episodes now.

    Harold is both good at challenges, and nicer than Courtney. If it came down to it, I'm sure that most would side with Harold as an alliance leader than Courtney. She may be a little better at challenges, but she will also turn on you. It's a game, and everyone turns on you sooner or later, but at least Harold would probably stick with it till then.

    I made a chart yesterday, did no one see it? If points were given out based on both challenge performances, and life outside the challenges, Courtney would score well on challenges, but low on outside them. Harold, on the other hand, would score well on challenges, and well on outside them.

    I do not doubt that Courtney is a good player, but the game isn't ONLY challenges. You put everything together and then you know who is best.

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    imverybasic

    [293]Oct 6, 2009
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    KarmaGoddess11 wrote:
    There really is no excuse for the bullying that Harold receives. Duncan loves to try to make excuses, but when you look at his actions they are obviously nothing but pretense. He raised his fist threateningly at Harold in the first episode of TDI, made Harold pee-himself in his sleep during the third episode and pointed it out to everyone, and drew on Harold's face. This was all long before he created the excuse of Harold's underwear being left around, and spent an entire episode bullying Harold. Even after Harold promises to never do it again, Duncan continues with making Harold drink oil, feeding him his underwear again, giving him wedgies, and sticking peanut butter in his bed.

    Harold is wrong to bring Courtney into the matter, but it's pretty understandable that a character can make mistakes when upset. Harold obviously was upset and frustrated, and this becomes his one truly unethical action.

    Duncan continues to bully Harold in TDA, but now he uses the excuse of Harold having voted off Courtney--not that he stops when Courtney comes back. It's just another justification that Duncan's hiding behind for behaviors which Duncan started back at the very beginning of TDI. The truth is that Duncan gets a laugh out of being a jerk to people. He's a bully; that's what they do. He unscrewed the lids on Trent's salt and pepper shakers in Beach Blanket Bogus; in Sand Witch Project he admits to standing outside a kindergarten covered in fake blood and giving a dozen kids seizures. Also, in Beach Blanket Bogus Duncan rationalizes dismantling the bus because he's "always been more of a dismantler than a builder", and Gwen calls him on it because he really just likes to "stir up the stuff". Duncan laughs, doesn't deny it, and says they should disconnect the horn too.

    Duncan frequently behaves unethically without the slightest repentence. He doesn't need provocation, and he started the entire conflict with his bullying.

    Courtney is just as ethically challenged as Duncan. You can pretend that with no rules everything is permissable, but just because something can't be penalized in the game doesn't make the action ethical or morally sound. Courtney is rude to everyone, and then she blames them for not putting her on the same pestal she places herself on. It's easy to make fun of Lindsay for smelling like cheese, but Courtney doesn't like it when it's pointed out that she doesn't smell any better. She uses her lawyers to secure unethical advantages for herself, though she'd be screaming bloody murder if anyone else had that special treatment instead of her. She would threaten to sue the show. She's a nasty person who is willing to pretend to kiss her boyfriend and then kick him in the nuts instead to win a challenge. Were the situation reversed, she'd again have threatened to sue.

    Whether the competition has rules or not, society does have ethics. The golden rule of treating others the way you wish to be treated yourself is an axiom around the world. In reality shows, people frequently break this rule, but it doesn't make them look better for having done so. They look like slime, and people across the world talk about them negatively.

    Harold broke it once in anger and frustration; it's a mistake he hasn't repeated. Duncan breaks it constantly for his own amusement. Courtney breaks it constantly for money and ego. To pretend that Duncan and Courtney have any moral high ground to justify their continued persecution of Harold is laughable. Harold is obviously a protagonist for trying to adhere to the ethical treatment of others. Courtney and Duncan are obviously antagonists for having no desire to adhere to the ethical treatment of others.

    I completely agree. All I can say really is that Courtney is a complete hypocrite. She's not only mean and nasty, but she contradicts herself of her own morals and the morals of others. That's hypocrisy. What kind of a person claims to have devoted their entire life to following the rules only to find that they have broken them? Seriously. If Courtney's willing to go to such extremes to betray people, she should learn how to take it. I don't care if cheating her out of the game was a mistake or not. Harold shouldn't have to feel remorseful for the two people who caused him the most grief. Courtney had no compassion for Geoff's "injury", she felt merciless in TDDDDI; she was actually willing to kill four campers to win the million dollars. Not to mention that she had made several comments about Harold and never once felt bad about it. So why should Harold apologize for the one possible mistake that he made, when Courtney never thinks twice about her actions?

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    Brodoin15

    [294]Oct 6, 2009
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    imverybasic wrote:
    KarmaGoddess11 wrote:
    There really is no excuse for the bullying that Harold receives. Duncan loves to try to make excuses, but when you look at his actions they are obviously nothing but pretense. He raised his fist threateningly at Harold in the first episode of TDI, made Harold pee-himself in his sleep during the third episode and pointed it out to everyone, and drew on Harold's face. This was all long before he created the excuse of Harold's underwear being left around, and spent an entire episode bullying Harold. Even after Harold promises to never do it again, Duncan continues with making Harold drink oil, feeding him his underwear again, giving him wedgies, and sticking peanut butter in his bed.

    Harold is wrong to bring Courtney into the matter, but it's pretty understandable that a character can make mistakes when upset. Harold obviously was upset and frustrated, and this becomes his one truly unethical action.

    Duncan continues to bully Harold in TDA, but now he uses the excuse of Harold having voted off Courtney--not that he stops when Courtney comes back. It's just another justification that Duncan's hiding behind for behaviors which Duncan started back at the very beginning of TDI. The truth is that Duncan gets a laugh out of being a jerk to people. He's a bully; that's what they do. He unscrewed the lids on Trent's salt and pepper shakers in Beach Blanket Bogus; in Sand Witch Project he admits to standing outside a kindergarten covered in fake blood and giving a dozen kids seizures. Also, in Beach Blanket Bogus Duncan rationalizes dismantling the bus because he's "always been more of a dismantler than a builder", and Gwen calls him on it because he really just likes to "stir up the stuff". Duncan laughs, doesn't deny it, and says they should disconnect the horn too.

    Duncan frequently behaves unethically without the slightest repentence. He doesn't need provocation, and he started the entire conflict with his bullying.

    Courtney is just as ethically challenged as Duncan. You can pretend that with no rules everything is permissable, but just because something can't be penalized in the game doesn't make the action ethical or morally sound. Courtney is rude to everyone, and then she blames them for not putting her on the same pestal she places herself on. It's easy to make fun of Lindsay for smelling like cheese, but Courtney doesn't like it when it's pointed out that she doesn't smell any better. She uses her lawyers to secure unethical advantages for herself, though she'd be screaming bloody murder if anyone else had that special treatment instead of her. She would threaten to sue the show. She's a nasty person who is willing to pretend to kiss her boyfriend and then kick him in the nuts instead to win a challenge. Were the situation reversed, she'd again have threatened to sue.

    Whether the competition has rules or not, society does have ethics. The golden rule of treating others the way you wish to be treated yourself is an axiom around the world. In reality shows, people frequently break this rule, but it doesn't make them look better for having done so. They look like slime, and people across the world talk about them negatively.

    Harold broke it once in anger and frustration; it's a mistake he hasn't repeated. Duncan breaks it constantly for his own amusement. Courtney breaks it constantly for money and ego. To pretend that Duncan and Courtney have any moral high ground to justify their continued persecution of Harold is laughable. Harold is obviously a protagonist for trying to adhere to the ethical treatment of others. Courtney and Duncan are obviously antagonists for having no desire to adhere to the ethical treatment of others.

    I completely agree. All I can say really is that Courtney is a complete hypocrite. She's not only mean and nasty, but she contradicts herself of her own morals and the morals of others. That's hypocrisy. What kind of a person claims to have devoted their entire life to following the rules only to find that they have broken them? Seriously. If Courtney's willing to go to such extremes to betray people, she should learn how to take it. I don't care if cheating her out of the game was a mistake or not. Harold shouldn't have to feel remorseful for the two people who caused him the most grief. Courtney had no compassion for Geoff's "injury", she felt merciless in TDDDDI; she was actually willing to kill four campers to win the million dollars. Not to mention that she had made several comments about Harold and never once felt bad about it. So why should Harold apologize for the one possible mistake that he made, when Courtney never thinks twice about her actions?

    Right, very good.

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    imverybasic

    [295]Oct 6, 2009
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    Many thanks.

    Anyway, the show doesn't make much sense. How could anyone be penalized for breaking rules when there are no rules? When you're competing on a reality show, you need rules. It's a simple fact. If you want to go by Chris's logic, Harold's cheating isn't considered breaking the rules and neither are Courtney's actions. Since it's a cartoon and it's meant for humorous purposes, all is forgiven. But realistically speaking, it goes to show you that tampering with votes is just as bad stealing a hot air balloon. If anybody were to pull any of those stunts on a real reality show, it would resulted them into getting kicked off the show. The fact that Chris is just a bad host throws everything out of whack.

    With that being said, Courtney's lawsuit is contributing to the "no longer" Grips team. She was granted immunity for a week in "Ocean's Eight Or Nine," her matches against Duncan were unfairly set up by Chris in "Million Bucks BC" and "Million Dollar Babies" and since then, every other episode has shown Courtney calling her lawyers to get her out when things don't go her way or to make sure the other contestants don't win the million dollars. This/That is downright cheating. Just because Courtney has a good lawyer, Chris is willing to bend the rules into making sure his show doesn't get sued. This is cheating, not to mention illogically inept. Most or almost all of Courtney's victories are due to Chris bending the rules for her. Courtney may have not been successful in reaching her lawyers but as far as I'm concerned, it's cheating and at least Courtney's trying to cheat.

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    Brodoin15

    [296]Oct 6, 2009
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    imverybasic wrote:

    Many thanks.

    Anyway, the show doesn't make much sense. How could anyone be penalized for breaking rules when there are no rules? When you're competing on a reality show, you need rules. It's a simple fact. If you want to go by Chris's logic, Harold's cheating isn't considered breaking the rules and neither are Courtney's actions. Since it's a cartoon and it's meant for humorous purposes, all is forgiven. But realistically speaking, it goes to show you that tampering with votes is just as bad stealing a hot air balloon. If anybody were to pull any of those stunts on a real reality show, it would resulted them into getting kicked off the show. The fact that Chris is just a bad host throws everything out of whack.

    With that being said, Courtney's lawsuit is contributing to the "no longer" Grips team. She was granted immunity for a week in "Ocean's Eight Or Nine," her matches against Duncan were unfairly set up by Chris in "Million Bucks BC" and "Million Dollar Babies" and since then, every other episode has shown Courtney calling her lawyers to get her out when things don't go her way or to make sure the other contestants don't win the million dollars. This/That is downright cheating. Just because Courtney has a good lawyer, Chris is willing to bend the rules into making sure his show doesn't get sued. This is cheating, not to mention illogically inept. Most or almost all of Courtney's victories are due to Chris bending the rules for her. Courtney may have not been successful in reaching her lawyers but as far as I'm concerned, it's cheating and at least Courtney's trying to cheat.

    Yes. And as you and KarmaGoddess said, if anyone else had Courtney's perks, she'd be complaining about it to Chris like crazy.

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  • Avatar of alagaesian

    alagaesian

    [297]Oct 6, 2009
    • member since: 12/17/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 1,098
    It's like trying to look at someone's test when their desk is too far away to see it clearly without squinting at it for a while. If the teacher catches you looking in that direction, you're still going to get punished. Supporting Courtney as a protagonist with the 'she's done nothing wrong yet' is like a teacher letting this kid off the hook just because he hasn't had a chance to discern the answers on the other test.

    Chris allowed Harold's cheating. Since Chris did not penalize for it, it means he has done nothing wrong, according to your definition of competition.

    Whereas, Courtney has been using extortion to get Chris to bend the workings of the game to her favor. This does not necessarily mean that she is doing nothing wrong - it means Chris is too scared of a lawsuit to say she is doing something wrong. While one can argue that Chris wouldn't have tried to give her equal footing anyways, just the possibility gives Harold a little bit of edge. And, let's face it, it's far from a fifty-fifty possibility. It's obvious Chris does NOT want Courtney walking over him, and he has been getting back at her in his only legally possible ways.

    Besides, Courtney has been willing to risk the lives of four people to get the million dollars. It's a competition, but letting people fall to their death? Come on! A million dollars pales in comparison to taking one life, let alone four. And this isn't even mentioning Dial M for Murder, where she arguably risked seven different people's lives.

    Since when did Harold risk someone's life to win a pointless reality show?
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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [298]Oct 6, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 808

    We saw the chart just fine, it's just that you arbitrarily assigned numbers to somehow prove that Harold > Courtney. That's not how charts work.

    As of yet, no one has proven where Courtney has broken the rules. Delivering a lawsuit against Chris, and winning, is not breaking the rules. From her victory, it was clear that Courtney's lawyers argued a position that she was terminated from competition unsuccessfully. That's not breaking a rule. Quite the opposite, that's Courtney calling Chris out for breaking a rule.

    Courtney received immunity her first week back because of the lawsuit; that's not breaking a rule since it was established beforehand, and all other Grips were aware of the rule (they, in fact, were the ones that broke it.) Courtney's matches were also not unfairly set up by Chris: He chose who fought who in "BC" and "Million Dollar Babies" was established due to tier rankings during the football training. The fact that Duncan and Courtney did worse then Justin and Leshawna, but better than everyone else, is not unfair.

    And imverybasic, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever. How, exactly, do ANY of Courtney's victories in the challenges come from her lawyers? She defeated Duncan by kneeing him in the crotch, by pinning him in wrestling, getting through a laser grid, making a better superhero costume, and accomplishing an obstacle course the fastest. Not a single one of these came from her lawyers; the latter three, she was actually unable to reach them. Courtney accomplished this ON HER OWN. Do not let your personal opinion of her disguise the facts. She wasn't compassionate for Geoff's injury because, let's face it, he had a splinter.

    alagaseian, your "justifications" are even worse. You claim that Chris did nothing because he's afraid of a lawsuit, but can't even prove it. Beth is the only one who whines that it's not fair Courtney gets perks. It's true that Chris does not appear to be happy about it during "BC" but after that, he never mentions it again. You use a flimsy pretext to get Harold off the hook, and then hypocritically backtrack just to penalize Courtney. Sad. Really sad.

    And you guys are way off-topic. No one has yet to reply to such things as "Courtney coming back does not exonerate Harold, since he had nothing to do with it." This just denigrated into whiny Courtney-bashing and mindless Harold-praise.

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  • Avatar of Diddy_2000

    Diddy_2000

    [299]Oct 6, 2009
    • member since: 04/02/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 357
    BrainMan820 wrote:

    We saw the chart just fine, it's just that you arbitrarily assigned numbers to somehow prove that Harold > Courtney. That's not how charts work.

    As of yet, no one has proven where Courtney has broken the rules. Delivering a lawsuit against Chris, and winning, is not breaking the rules. From her victory, it was clear that Courtney's lawyers argued a position that she was terminated from competition unsuccessfully. That's not breaking a rule. Quite the opposite, that's Courtney calling Chris out for breaking a rule.

    Courtney received immunity her first week back because of the lawsuit; that's not breaking a rule since it was established beforehand, and all other Grips were aware of the rule (they, in fact, were the ones that broke it.) Courtney's matches were also not unfairly set up by Chris: He chose who fought who in "BC" and "Million Dollar Babies" was established due to tier rankings during the football training. The fact that Duncan and Courtney did worse then Justin and Leshawna, but better than everyone else, is not unfair.

    And imverybasic, you make absolutely no sense whatsoever. How, exactly, do ANY of Courtney's victories in the challenges come from her lawyers? She defeated Duncan by kneeing him in the crotch, by pinning him in wrestling, getting through a laser grid, making a better superhero costume, and accomplishing an obstacle course the fastest. Not a single one of these came from her lawyers; the latter three, she was actually unable to reach them. Courtney accomplished this ON HER OWN. Do not let your personal opinion of her disguise the facts. She wasn't compassionate for Geoff's injury because, let's face it, he had a splinter.

    alagaseian, your "justifications" are even worse. You claim that Chris did nothing because he's afraid of a lawsuit, but can't even prove it. Beth is the only one who whines that it's not fair Courtney gets perks. It's true that Chris does not appear to be happy about it during "BC" but after that, he never mentions it again. You use a flimsy pretext to get Harold off the hook, and then hypocritically backtrack just to penalize Courtney. Sad. Really sad.

    And you guys are way off-topic. No one has yet to reply to such things as "Courtney coming back does not exonerate Harold, since he had nothing to do with it." This just denigrated into whiny Courtney-bashing and mindless Harold-praise.



    Q.F.T.

    Brainman you really bring up good points that actually make sense
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  • Avatar of alagaesian

    alagaesian

    [300]Oct 6, 2009
    • member since: 12/17/07
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 1,098
    Mindless Harold-praise? I've flat-out admitted that Courtney is better at challenges than him. I'm just trying to prove at this point that he is a protagonist, and that Courtney is lower morally than him.

    I could consider your argument to be flimsy because it is throwing ethics out the window concerning the game. It is an element that is essential to proving how moral someone is, because morals are just an expression of ethics. But, I'm going along with it because I know I can't prove my point if I try to base an argument on something you won't even consider.

    Basically, if you throw everything out but the most simple and sacred morals, here are the points against each individual:

    Harold - illegally switched the votes
    Courtney - threatened to let four people die if they didn't give her the case

    If I am missing something fundamental to the debate, let me know. I'd hate for you to completely discredit me simply for forgetting the details.

    As for Courtney coming back, let's put it this way: Harold stole a chance from Courtney, and Courtney got it back tenfold. Not to mention that she was forcing him into a state of distress and then beating him senseless at Playa de Losers, and that her boyfriend was also taking revenge on him throughout most of TDA's episodes. I personally believe that this compensates for Harold's cheating fully, as there is no overall harm done to Courtney, and Harold has been reprimanded harshly for his actions.
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