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Does Harold deserve to be picked on by Duncan and Courtney so much?

Does Harold deserve to be picked on so much?

  • Avatar of shishkabob999

    shishkabob999

    [521]Oct 23, 2009
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    I know this thread is about Harold vs Courtney, but I wanted to post my opinion of the episode here.

    I think that Brainman or others might argue that Courtney deserved to win the mystery challenge, but my two cents is that Lindsay won it fair and square because she completed the purpose - figure out "whodunit". Sure, there was no actual dead body, but by being gullible enough to believe there was, she was the one who best identified a possible "killer".
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    Brodoin15

    [522]Oct 23, 2009
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    shishkabob999 wrote:
    I know this thread is about Harold vs Courtney, but I wanted to post my opinion of the episode here.

    I think that Brainman or others might argue that Courtney deserved to win the mystery challenge, but my two cents is that Lindsay won it fair and square because she completed the purpose - figure out "whodunit". Sure, there was no actual dead body, but by being gullible enough to believe there was, she was the one who best identified a possible "killer".

    I agree. Courtney knew that Chris wasn't dead, of course, but that wasn't the point. The point was to see who "killed" him, and, I suppose if possible, why.

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    imverybasic

    [523]Oct 23, 2009
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    We're not here to discuss your opinion on what you think should have happened. We are arguing what actually happened. They made no agreement to split the money; Courtney has no reason to see Duncan through to the end.

    Why did she escape it after making the agreement with the campers? The payoff, of course. She now has a reason to get them out before the "bomb" goes off: $500,000

    All the things you have shown are Courtney trying to win the challenge; not make Duncan suffer. She pulls the same extreme moves in other challenges unrelated to Duncan.

    You really will say anything to make Courtney look like the villain. Look at things logically: Yes, Courtney was irresponsible to not take better care of her things. This, however, DOES NOT mean Beth can use it as she pleases. It doesn't matter if she takes it out of the room or not. Beth was doing the responsible thing and trying to return it to Courtney. However, after that, Beth took possession of her property and used it for herself. Not only is this against the rules (remember, only Courtney can have the PDA) but it's a clear definition of theft: Beth is using something that doesn't belong to her. Don't just justify it because it's anti-Courtney.

    Courtney was never nasty to her teammates in TDI aside from Harold. Why then, would Lindsay say she was evil. And Lindsay's happiness at going to the cheese factory is overshadowed by her constant insults of Courtney.

    You miss the point about Noah. I never said he was always wrong, but the fact that Noah, who insults everyone, shouldn't be taken as true merely because he insulted Courtney. As stated, he insults everyone for no particular reason. We see this in the dodgeball game.

    Where has Courtney shown she is cutthroat in TDI? Further, she and Leshawna were friends in TDI, long after Courtney was eliminated. The two got along great. As soon as she got back to TDA, Leshawna let the insults fly. Don't blame Courtney; she wasn't around. Leshawna was the one who had the attitude.

    Please recall that Courtney was standing on a narrow pedestal with Duncan six inches from her when she had the large bone. At Playa De Losers, she had the space to manuever. That is a quintenssial diffference.

    You're not discussing about our opinions. I am. I just stated something. I didn't say that Courtney and Duncan had an agreement. I said that they should have had an agreement. You may disagree with this, but my statement remains as follows.

    Again. It's wrong. Simple as that.

    Courtney is the villain. She's the meanest one out of all the characters. You seem to be forgetting the fact that she threatens people over minor misunderstandings, so of course they're going to do things against her. Beth didn't exactly call her boyfriend to get back at Courtney, but recall that Courtney kept throwing threats at her before she did this.

    Not true. She also acted nasty towards Bridgette, Tyler and Sadie. Instead of forgiving them for incidents that were only accidental, Courtney gets angry at them.

    Noah wasn't insulting Courtney. Like Lindsay, he was telling the truth. Just because he insulted everyone at the dodgeball game, doesn't mean that his comment shouldn't be taken into account. Again, if you had to listen to someone complain over and over again, would you not get fed up with it? Courtney had to bring up the subject enough times just to provoke a few people to say something about it?

    Throughout TDI or at least in TDDDDI, she has shown to care for no one but herself. She threatens people, she betrays them, she stole a hot air balloon (talk about doing things against the rules) and she physically harms them. Okay, yes Leshawna and Courtney were friends. But Leshawna has this tendency to stand up for people. She must of found out about all the things that Courtney has done to other people and that made her lose respect for her. Whether it was concerning her or not, Leshawna doesn't like people who treat other people terribly. Lindsay found out the same things, and said what she said to Courtney because of Courtney treating so many other people badly, instead of helping them. Let's face it, bossing other people around, calling them out on their faults, acting vengeful for everything... these things don't exactly make Courtney look so attractive as a person. And since then, most of the players have lost a lot of respect for her, including Lindsay and Leshawna.

    Again, you're missing the point. Courtney had Duncan by the wrist. She had him by her control which was helpful for her to gain more balance. And therefore, this meant that she could have done anything else to him.

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    stalemate666

    [524]Oct 23, 2009
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    Brodoin15 wrote:
    shishkabob999 wrote:
    I know this thread is about Harold vs Courtney, but I wanted to post my opinion of the episode here.

    I think that Brainman or others might argue that Courtney deserved to win the mystery challenge, but my two cents is that Lindsay won it fair and square because she completed the purpose - figure out "whodunit". Sure, there was no actual dead body, but by being gullible enough to believe there was, she was the one who best identified a possible "killer".

    I agree. Courtney knew that Chris wasn't dead, of course, but that wasn't the point. The point was to see who "killed" him, and, I suppose if possible, why.


    But Courtney was the one that "killed" him meaning that for the challenge to be fair she has to know that and stop everyone from figuring it out, this challenge was stacked against her
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  • Avatar of alagaesian

    alagaesian

    [525]Oct 23, 2009
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    Now I'm seeing incredibly ridiculous contradictions in these arguments. Ugh. I want to yell at people for it, but it's not going to get us anywhere...

    And now we're slowly regressing back to the old days of this board, with CC and a bunch of charts explaining which episodes Courtney or Harold won. I wonder if it will actually go back all the way, with BrainMan becoming CC and Imverybasic becoming Hayden? Probably not, but it's been heading that direction since the last time we've flown off-topic.
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  • Avatar of imverybasic

    imverybasic

    [526]Oct 23, 2009
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    I aplogize. But someone like Courtney deserves to be demonized. She's mean, bossy, selfish, inconsiderate and a whiny brat who goes out of her way to make others suffer. Characters like this deserve to be hated and deserve to be punished. I just caught the grande finale of the recent episode. And I must say that this is what Courtney gets for insulting Lindsay and complaining about everyone and everything. She doesn't even deserve to be on this show. At least Harold made his way into the second season fairly. Courtney had to sue to get back on. And now she goes out of her way to make people hate her. Well, it's no wonder...
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    Brodoin15

    [527]Oct 23, 2009
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    stalemate666 wrote:
    Brodoin15 wrote:
    shishkabob999 wrote:
    I know this thread is about Harold vs Courtney, but I wanted to post my opinion of the episode here.

    I think that Brainman or others might argue that Courtney deserved to win the mystery challenge, but my two cents is that Lindsay won it fair and square because she completed the purpose - figure out "whodunit". Sure, there was no actual dead body, but by being gullible enough to believe there was, she was the one who best identified a possible "killer".

    I agree. Courtney knew that Chris wasn't dead, of course, but that wasn't the point. The point was to see who "killed" him, and, I suppose if possible, why.

    But Courtney was the one that "killed" him meaning that for the challenge to be fair she has to know that and stop everyone from figuring it out, this challenge was stacked against her

    True. It was kind of an odd challenge. Courtney was the killer, and not even Courtney knew.

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    stalemate666

    [528]Oct 23, 2009
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    imverybasic wrote:
    I aplogize. But someone like Courtney deserves to be demonized. She's mean, bossy, selfish, inconsiderate and a whiny brat who goes out of her way to make others suffer. Characters like this deserve to be hated and deserve to be punished. I just caught the grande finale of the recent episode. And I must say that this is what Courtney gets for insulting Lindsay and complaining about everyone and everything. She doesn't even deserve to be on this show. At least Harold made his way into the second season fairly. Courtney had to sue to get back on. And now she goes out of her way to make people hate her. Well, it's no wonder...

    but harold took her out of first season unfairly and cowardly I might add
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    HaydenAvery

    [529]Oct 23, 2009
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    wow one thing that harold had a motive for. but courtney goes out of her way to make everyone miserable. like when she threw harolds microscope down on the wheels and broke it she grinned. look at the looks on courtneys face all the time. theyre always mean rude or angry faces. courtney. is. an. ANTAGONIST.
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    BrainMan820

    [530]Oct 23, 2009
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    You statement is completely irrelevant to the discussion, so stop repeating it.

    I answered your statement about the bomb challenge: Courtney had a reason to use the zip-line gun to help them after they made the deal because she would be richer $500,000 if she lost the competition, because someone else would have to win. Before that, she has no reason to help them. Making the deal doesn't convince Courtney the bomb is real.

    You have now gone completely off-topic just to insult Courtney. We were discussing Beth stealing her PDA. Get back on topic, please.

    Courtney got angry at Bridgette for dropping a stage light on her head and lighting a tent on fire while she was still in it. They are accidents, yes, but anger is an understandable reaction to such injury. She told Tyler that he sucked at dodgeball (and he did. Isn't this that same "truth" you whine about in Playa de Losers), and she gets angry at Sadie for pelting her repeatedly with apples even though the challenge is over. Again, anger at causing her physical harm.

    You haven't answered anything: Noah complains about everyone. We can't take his comment as is just because. Show me some mitigating evidence.

    Where was commandeering the hot air balloon against the rules? Why didn't Chris disqualify her? He didn't. Chef went out to look for her, and that was it. That's when Leshawna stole the ATV.

    And where did Courtney treat people so horribly that Leshawna would learn these things. Courtney had just arrived, after all.

    Courtney having Duncan by the wrist will not help her balance. Duncan is not a stable pillar to lean on considering he's just as off-balance as she is. The best way she could have gotten balance is to either lower her center of gravity or knock Duncan off quickly. Since that was the purpose of the challenge...

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    BrainMan820

    [531]Oct 23, 2009
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    imverybasic wrote:
    I aplogize. But someone like Courtney deserves to be demonized. She's mean, bossy, selfish, inconsiderate and a whiny brat who goes out of her way to make others suffer. Characters like this deserve to be hated and deserve to be punished. I just caught the grande finale of the recent episode. And I must say that this is what Courtney gets for insulting Lindsay and complaining about everyone and everything. She doesn't even deserve to be on this show. At least Harold made his way into the second season fairly. Courtney had to sue to get back on. And now she goes out of her way to make people hate her. Well, it's no wonder...

    Wow. So Courtney manipulates and she's evil, but Lindsay manipulates and it's Courtney's fault? Harold cheats consciously and it's Duncan's fault?

    I think I know what the problem is here: You're just biased. You have favoritism towards one character and will justify anything they do because you like them, or you want them to win, and you dislike others and will blame them for anything else.

    Lindsay manipulated Duncan just to make Courtney angry. That's far worse then Courtney, who only manipulated Justin for strategy.

    Take your bias out of the conversation if you want to argue anti-Courtney. Factual evidence, not your half-baked whining.

    Courtney deserved to come back: She was unfairly and illegally booted from the competition.

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  • Avatar of shishkabob999

    shishkabob999

    [532]Oct 23, 2009
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    To be honest, both of you are biased. So is pretty much everyone here, myself included. Don't pretend you eliminate bias from your argument, Brainman, it doesn't work.

    I believe that Lindsay said it was strategy, not just to make her angry. And even if you had Courtney supporters on your side, not many would be convinced that Lindsay is that big a jerk.

    Still unsure about "unfairly and illegally booted off" part. Was LeShawna's elimination any more fair? She didn't even do anything and Chris was out to get her. Sounds like Courtney and Harold to me.
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  • Avatar of imverybasic

    imverybasic

    [533]Oct 23, 2009
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    Wow. So Courtney manipulates and she's evil, but Lindsay manipulates and it's Courtney's fault? Harold cheats consciously and it's Duncan's fault?

    I think I know what the problem is here: You're just biased. You have favoritism towards one character and will justify anything they do because you like them, or you want them to win, and you dislike others and will blame them for anything else.

    Lindsay manipulated Duncan just to make Courtney angry. That's far worse then Courtney, who only manipulated Justin for strategy.

    Take your bias out of the conversation if you want to argue anti-Courtney. Factual evidence, not your half-baked whining.

    Courtney deserved to come back: She was unfairly and illegally booted from the competition.

    Lindsay manipulated Courtney because of all the insults she was getting. And of course it's Duncan's fault. If he hadn't bullied Harold in the first place, this whole conflict never would have started.

    No, I am not being biased. I'm being honest. I'm just pointing out how horribly insensitive Courtney is to everybody. She treats people terribly and puts them down constantly. The fact that you failed to notice this is sad, very sad. The fact that Lindsay pointed out that no one liked her was pointing out the truth. Not being malevolent. She did not expect to tick Courtney off, nor did she intend it. And the fact that she manipulated Courtney was for pay-back. Lindsay was trying to be helpful to the challenge, and all Courtney did was put her down and tell her how stupid she was.

    If Courtney did deserve to come back, why didn't Chris do anything to bring her back? He is the host, afterall.

    When Bridgette dropped that light on Courtney. Courtney wasn't angry about the injury. She was angry about her broken violin. When Tyler had to face his fear, Courtney kept telling him to quit being such a girl, instead of encouraging him like everyone else was doing. You could even see how disappointed everyone else was with her when she treated DJ the exact same way.

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    alagaesian

    [534]Oct 23, 2009
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    BrainMan, you're biased towards Courtney. Take your bias out of the equation if you want to argue anti-Harold. I think the Harold fans ague using a Hammurabi Code system. Courtney has done worse things than either Harold or Lindsay; she has whined, wrecked people's stuff, broken someone's heart without hint of remorse, and threatened to let at least four people die. Meanwhile, Harold has cheated off someone who was probably leaving soon anyways, and Lindsay was trying to give Courtney a taste of her own medicine. Courtney has obviously done more bad things, so according to Hammurabi, she should be getting punished. Harold hurt Courtney and Duncan, and was punished, so he's off the hook. Lindsay has been abused by Courtney as well, so she is working Hammurabi Code so Courtney can repay an eye for an eye. But, because most of Courtney's acts have not been justified nor forgiven through the Code, most Harold fans think she should be punished. But she isn't. Which is why they think she's an antagonist. At least, it's why I think they do.

    You tend to look at the reasons behind why people do things. You claim Lindsay and Harold are antagonists for trying to spite people, trying to compensate for all the abuse they themselves have taken. And yet you say Courtney is perfectly good and swell, as if wanting a million dollars (AVARICE) is enough of a reason to justify her acts. Granted, I am putting your argument in my own biased words, but that is how your points appear to me.

    Edited on 10/25/2009 6:52am
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    stalemate666

    [535]Oct 23, 2009
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    alagaesian wrote:
    BrainMan, you're biased towards Courtney. Take your bias out of the equation if you want to argue anti-Harold.

    I think the Harold fans ague using a Hammurabi Code system. Courtney has done worse things than either Harold or Lindsay; she has whined, wrecked people's stuff, broken someone's heart without hint of remorse, and threatened to let at least four people die. Meanwhile, Harold has cheated off someone who was probably leaving soon anyways, and Lindsay was trying to give Courtney a taste of her own medicine. Courtney has obviously done more bad things, so according to Hammurabi, she should be getting punished. Harold hurt Courtney and Duncan, and was punished, so he's off the hook. Lindsay has been abused by Courtney as well, so she is working Hammurabi Code so Courtney can repay an eye for an eye. But, because most of Courtney's acts have not been justified nor forgiven through the Code, most Harold fans think she should be punished. But she isn't. Which is why they think she's a protagonist. At least, it's why I think they do.

    You tend to look at the reasons behind why people do things. You claim Lindsay and Harold are antagonists for trying to spite people, trying to compensate for all the abuse they themselves have taken. And yet you say Courtney is perfectly good and swell, as if wanting a million dollars (AVARICE) is enough of a reason to justify her acts. Granted, I am putting your argument in my own biased words, but that is how your points appear to me.

    Oh come on you so can't count her breaking Justins heart without remorse, he was using Lindsey and Beth the whole game and the other girls too Courtney just gave him a taste of his own medicine
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    shishkabob999

    [536]Oct 23, 2009
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    stalemate666 wrote:
    Oh come on you so can't count her breaking Justins heart without remorse, he was using Lindsey and Beth the whole game and the other girls too Courtney just gave him a taste of his own medicine


    But then, Lindsay gave Courtney a taste of HER medicine the last episode. The way that Courtney led Justin on for strategy is the same thing that Lindsay's doing with Duncan. And let's not forget the hissy fit she throws the one time she didn't win a challenge.
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    imverybasic

    [537]Oct 23, 2009
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    You have now gone completely off-topic just to insult Courtney. We were discussing Beth stealing her PDA. Get back on topic, please.

    Courtney got angry at Bridgette for dropping a stage light on her head and lighting a tent on fire while she was still in it. They are accidents, yes, but anger is an understandable reaction to such injury. She told Tyler that he sucked at dodgeball (and he did. Isn't this that same "truth" you whine about in Playa de Losers), and she gets angry at Sadie for pelting her repeatedly with apples even though the challenge is over. Again, anger at causing her physical harm.

    You haven't answered anything: Noah complains about everyone. We can't take his comment as is just because. Show me some mitigating evidence.

    Where was commandeering the hot air balloon against the rules? Why didn't Chris disqualify her? He didn't. Chef went out to look for her, and that was it. That's when Leshawna stole the ATV.

    And where did Courtney treat people so horribly that Leshawna would learn these things. Courtney had just arrived, after all.

    Courtney having Duncan by the wrist will not help her balance. Duncan is not a stable pillar to lean on considering he's just as off-balance as she is. The best way she could have gotten balance is to either lower her center of gravity or knock Duncan off quickly. Since that was the purpose of the challenge...

    I'm just freely expressing myself. Please stop telling me what to or what not to discuss about.

    Yes, Sadie pelted her with apples. Fine, Courtney's angry. That's understandable. But voting her off and making her cry was completely unneccessary. It's malevolent, it's unfair and it goes way too far.

    What are you talking about? I've given you all the plausible evidence in all of my previous posts. Courtney was whining to everybody, people told her stop. That's it. Whether Noah complains about everybody is completely irrelevant in this instance. Courtney kept whining and he told her to get over it. Plain and simple.

    In TDI, Courtney treated everybody terribly. Where did Courtney treat people terribly for others to learn about it? That's the same thing when you ask how she learned about the vote tampering. Every episode shows Courtney bossing everybody around and taking revenge on them for minor things. Okay, so Courtney was harmed a few times. That's unpleasant and her feelings are completely understandable. But there's a little thing called forgiveness. People have done things to Courtney and have regretted them, where Courtney has done things and never once felt bad about it. Think about this for a bit. Why should people be so nice to Courtney if she acts so nasty to everyone else. Also, TDI is filmed. It is filmed all over the place. What do you think? That the contestants don't know what's going on? Sooner or later, stuff is revealed and tension ensues. So of course, people are going to start talking about it. And also all the times that she's been on the show: she has insulted and put other people down. This is not very hard to miss. Anybody who sees somebody acting vengeful and cutthroat like makes them lose respect for that person. Where do you think Lindsay got the idea that no one liked Courtney from?

    Both are unbalanced, but that makes no difference. Courtney basically had the upperhand. She had both the time and control to knock Duncan off. With his wrist locked, Duncan had absolutely no control to make his move. And seeing him distracted, gave/gives Courtney more of an advantage just to knock him off.

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    shishkabob999

    [538]Oct 23, 2009
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    imverybasic wrote:
    In TDI, Courtney treated everybody terribly. Where did Courtney treat people terribly for others to learn about it? That's the same thing when you ask how she learned about the vote tampering. Every episode shows Courtney bossing everybody around and taking revenge on them for minor things. Okay, so Courtney was harmed a few times. That's unpleasant and her feelings are completely understandable. But there's a little thing called forgiveness. People have done things to Courtney and have regretted them, where Courtney has done things and never once felt bad about it. Think about this for a bit. Why should people be so nice to Courtney if she acts so nasty to everyone else. Also, TDI is filmed. It is filmed all over the place. What do you think? That the contestants don't know what's going on? Sooner or later, stuff is revealed and tension ensues. So of course, people are going to start talking about it. And also all the times that she's been on the show: she has insulted and put other people down. This is not very hard to miss. Anybody who sees somebody acting vengeful and cutthroat like makes them lose respect for that person. Where do you think Lindsay got the idea that no one liked Courtney from?


    That's one thing that I have to disagree with you on. Even though she didn't treat Harold well and voted off Sadie and Tyler, the FACT is that she obviously gets (got, not sure) along very well Bridgette, DJ, Duncan, and Geoff. Lindsay believed Courtney was hated by everyone, probably because of her whining once she got to the Playa and her manhunt of Harold.
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    imverybasic

    [539]Oct 23, 2009
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    shishkabob999 wrote:
    That's one thing that I have to disagree with you on. Even though she didn't treat Harold well and voted off Sadie and Tyler, the FACT is that she obviously gets (got, not sure) along very well Bridgette, DJ, Duncan, and Geoff. Lindsay believed Courtney was hated by everyone, probably because of her whining once she got to the Playa and her manhunt of Harold.

    Right, I see. But I think that Bridgette and Duncan were the only two people who she managed to get along with. She wasn't nice to Tyler and DJ about facing their fears. The least she could have done was encourage them, rather than put them down. Yes, DJ managed to face his fear, but encouragement would have had the same effect, seeing as she failed while using the same tactic on Tyler.

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    shishkabob999

    [540]Oct 23, 2009
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    imverybasic wrote:

    shishkabob999 wrote:
    That's one thing that I have to disagree with you on. Even though she didn't treat Harold well and voted off Sadie and Tyler, the FACT is that she obviously gets (got, not sure) along very well Bridgette, DJ, Duncan, and Geoff. Lindsay believed Courtney was hated by everyone, probably because of her whining once she got to the Playa and her manhunt of Harold.

    Right, I see. But I think that Bridgette and Duncan were the only two people who she managed to get along with. She wasn't nice to Tyler and DJ about facing their fears. The least she could have done was encourage them, rather than put them down. Yes, DJ managed to face his fear, but encouragement would have had the same effect, seeing as she failed while using the same tactic on Tyler.



    DJ was nice to her during the canoes challenge, and Geoff was trying to goad her to Duncan throughout Basic Straining. Doesn't mean she wasn't annoying about Tyler facing his fear (and hypocritical, which was the key for me), but her hatred with all the campers started in TDA if not at the Playa.
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