| shishkabob999 wrote: | ||||
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Right. DJ and Geoff were nice to her. But it wasn't a two-way street. Actually, I don't think that she had much interaction with them during the time she was on TDI.
TELETOON
| shishkabob999 wrote: | ||||
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Right. DJ and Geoff were nice to her. But it wasn't a two-way street. Actually, I don't think that she had much interaction with them during the time she was on TDI.
| shishkabob999 wrote: | ||
But then, Lindsay gave Courtney a taste of HER medicine the last episode. The way that Courtney led Justin on for strategy is the same thing that Lindsay's doing with Duncan. And let's not forget the hissy fit she throws the one time she didn't win a challenge. |
| imverybasic wrote: | ||||||
Right. DJ and Geoff were nice to her. But it wasn't a two-way street. Actually, I don't think that she had much interaction with them during the time she was on TDI. |
| imverybasic wrote: | ||
Lindsay manipulated Courtney because of all the insults she was getting. And of course it's Duncan's fault. If he hadn't bullied Harold in the first place, this whole conflict never would have started. No, I am not being biased. I'm being honest. I'm just pointing out how horribly insensitive Courtney is to everybody. She treats people terribly and puts them down constantly. The fact that you failed to notice this is sad, very sad. The fact that Lindsay pointed out that no one liked her was pointing out the truth. Not being malevolent. She did not expect to tick Courtney off, nor did she intend it. And the fact that she manipulated Courtney was for pay-back. Lindsay was trying to be helpful to the challenge, and all Courtney did was put her down and tell her how stupid she was. If Courtney did deserve to come back, why didn't Chris do anything to bring her back? He is the host, afterall. When Bridgette dropped that light on Courtney. Courtney wasn't angry about the injury. She was angry about her broken violin. When Tyler had to face his fear, Courtney kept telling him to quit being such a girl, instead of encouraging him like everyone else was doing. You could even see how disappointed everyone else was with her when she treated DJ the exact same way.
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It's strange to me: You hold Courtney accountable for her own actions, but you do not hold others accountable for theirs. Harold performed a deliberate act. So did Lindsay. So does Courtney. I accuse them all equally. However, I'm willing to cut anyone slack if they're playing the game to win the money, since, let's face it, the point of the show is to win the money. It's the raison d'etre.
You are being horribly biased. I'm freely condemning Courtney for being annoying, but being annoying is not against the rules. You'll justify anything that'scondemns her, even ignoring facts like theft and cheating.
Chris didn't do anything because he didn't have to. Doesn't mean her cheating off wasn't unfair or against the rules.
Either way, Courtney has a right to be angry at Bridgette for seriously injuring her and destroying something of hers.
| alagaesian wrote: |
| BrainMan, you're biased towards Courtney. Take your bias out of the equation if you want to argue anti-Harold. I think the Harold fans ague using a Hammurabi Code system. Courtney has done worse things than either Harold or Lindsay; she has whined, wrecked people's stuff, broken someone's heart without hint of remorse, and threatened to let at least four people die. Meanwhile, Harold has cheated off someone who was probably leaving soon anyways, and Lindsay was trying to give Courtney a taste of her own medicine. Courtney has obviously done more bad things, so according to Hammurabi, she should be getting punished. Harold hurt Courtney and Duncan, and was punished, so he's off the hook. Lindsay has been abused by Courtney as well, so she is working Hammurabi Code so Courtney can repay an eye for an eye. But, because most of Courtney's acts have not been justified nor forgiven through the Code, most Harold fans think she should be punished. But she isn't. Which is why they think she's a protagonist. At least, it's why I think they do. You tend to look at the reasons behind why people do things. You claim Lindsay and Harold are antagonists for trying to spite people, trying to compensate for all the abuse they themselves have taken. And yet you say Courtney is perfectly good and swell, as if wanting a million dollars (AVARICE) is enough of a reason to justify her acts. Granted, I am putting your argument in my own biased words, but that is how your points appear to me. |
Read. Look back on my arguments. Not once did I state that Courtney was virtuous. I stated that there's no real reason to condemn her for playing the game because that is the purpose of the show. Harold did not cheat Courtney off to win the million: he cheated to cause revenge. And, somehow, that is better. According to the Code, Harold would be put to death for his falsehood. No one seems to realize that. It's not because of a code, it's because they want to justify it because they like Harold.
It's absolutely pathetic that people think "Courtney was going to leave anyway." How, exactly? It's quite clear that Duncan was on her side. She was clearly able to mobilize the team to boot Sadie. Further, she's close with the entire team. Why, exactly, would she leave? It's because those fans wanted her to go, so they apply their own motivations to the characters.
| imverybasic wrote: | ||
I'm just freely expressing myself. Please stop telling me what to or what not to discuss about. Yes, Sadie pelted her with apples. Fine, Courtney's angry. That's understandable. But voting her off and making her cry was completely unneccessary. It's malevolent, it's unfair and it goes way too far. What are you talking about? I've given you all the plausible evidence in all of my previous posts. Courtney was whining to everybody, people told her stop. That's it. Whether Noah complains about everybody is completely irrelevant in this instance. Courtney kept whining and he told her to get over it. Plain and simple. In TDI, Courtney treated everybody terribly. Where did Courtney treat people terribly for others to learn about it? That's the same thing when you ask how she learned about the vote tampering. Every episode shows Courtney bossing everybody around and taking revenge on them for minor things. Okay, so Courtney was harmed a few times. That's unpleasant and her feelings are completely understandable. But there's a little thing called forgiveness. People have done things to Courtney and have regretted them, where Courtney has done things and never once felt bad about it. Think about this for a bit. Why should people be so nice to Courtney if she acts so nasty to everyone else. Also, TDI is filmed. It is filmed all over the place. What do you think? That the contestants don't know what's going on? Sooner or later, stuff is revealed and tension ensues. So of course, people are going to start talking about it. And also all the times that she's been on the show: she has insulted and put other people down. This is not very hard to miss. Anybody who sees somebody acting vengeful and cutthroat like makes them lose respect for that person. Where do you think Lindsay got the idea that no one liked Courtney from? Both are unbalanced, but that makes no difference. Courtney basically had the upperhand. She had both the time and control to knock Duncan off. With his wrist locked, Duncan had absolutely no control to make his move. And seeing him distracted, gave/gives Courtney more of an advantage just to knock him off. |
You're completely ignoring all arguments in order to argue something irrelevant. Deal with the topic at hand. Or do you simply have no argument, and will admit to Beth being a thief.
How was it unnecessary? Sadie did cost them a challenge, it would not be prudent to keep her. Further, she was not in the larger Bass alliance like DJ was.
Actually, it is irrelevant. The fact that Noah complains about Courtney does not prove Courtney is annoying, as Noah does this regardless of whether they are annoying or not. Provide some more plausible evidence.
Your argument about Courtney being mean in TDI makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You say she is mean because of unseen things? You can't prove that. So Harold has done something he regrets. Whoop-de-doo. Not like he owned up to it. He hid from Courtney like a rat, and Duncan had to "find out" about Harold's tampering. He wasn't about to own up to it.
Where did Lindsay get the idea that no one likes Courtney? Well, seeing as how Lindsay is the one who drank shampoo believing it was a magic potion, I'd say it was something she pulled out of thin air.
Courtney grabbing Duncan by the wrist does not give her an advantage. Without something to brace herself, not to mention Duncan being heavier than Courtney, such a move would put her at more risk than him.
I just want to say that I don't understand how you, Brainman, think that Courtney hitting Duncan in his crotch was her only option. Yes, it helped her win, but it's still a cheap shot.
You see the look on her face? That look she made makes me thing she did it to punish Duncan, rather than only beat him. She could have easily pushed or knocked him off. She didn't need to hit him there.
| BrainMan820 wrote: |
| It's strange to me: You hold Courtney accountable for her own actions, but you do not hold others accountable for theirs. Harold performed a deliberate act. So did Lindsay. So does Courtney. I accuse them all equally. However, I'm willing to cut anyone slack if they're playing the game to win the money, since, let's face it, the point of the show is to win the money. It's the raison d'etre. You are being horribly biased. I'm freely condemning Courtney for being annoying, but being annoying is not against the rules. You'll justify anything that'scondemns her, even ignoring facts like theft and cheating. Chris didn't do anything because he didn't have to. Doesn't mean her cheating off wasn't unfair or against the rules. Either way, Courtney has a right to be angry at Bridgette for seriously injuring her and destroying something of hers. |
There's nothing strange about it. I took everybody's wrongs and injuries into equal account. I accounted Courtney's feelings, didn't I? I said that she had a right to be angry whenever she was harmed or injured. I admitted that Courtney was unfairly voted off, although Chris didn't think otherwise. There's just an exceptional difference for the vote tampering: Harold booted Courtney unfairly for the sake of revenge (like you said). Throughout the show, he was getting taunted and rediculed for everything that was happeneing to him, and whether or not he admitted it, Courtney was part of it. I'm free to admit that perhaps he should have went for Duncan, instead of Courtney but then it wouldn't accomplish much. His motive was to make Duncan suffer; something that Duncan was doing to him all season. And even though Courtney was a lot nicer than Duncan, she in no way was innocent about the whole thing. Again, going back to the "skinny arms" crack. Courtney was basically verbally abusing Harold. She called him out on his appearance, she told him that he sucked when he tried to help out his team, she showcased his arm to his entire team... Those which were all completely and horrendously unneccessary and uncalled for on Courtney's part. And yet you penalize Harold for an act that he performed as a gesture of defense, you ignore the fact that Courtney was one of the competitors that provoked him into performing this act.
I don't know where you get this idea where I ignore the facts. I never said anything about being annoying as against the rules. I said that being annoying makes you look unattractive as a person. And in case you haven't noticed, Courtney's been whining and moaning about not getting her way. I never said anything about it being against the rules. And yet you penalize Beth for taking Courtney's PDA, you're willing to accomodate her for stealing a hot air balloon-- this in which is not only considered theft, but also considered to be a larger offense. Chris didn't disqualify her for taking the balloon, but nor did he disqualify Leshawna for stealing the ATV, and keep in mind that Chris was watching everything on tape.
This makes absoultely no sense. If you say that Courtney's elimination was unfair, why do you say that Chris didn't have to do anything about it? Recall that if it wasn't for Courtney's threat to sue, she wouldn't even have had that opportunity to come back in the first place. Chris didn't do anything about it because he felt that Harold did the right thing. If he thought that what he did to Courtney was completely unjust, he would have wanted to give Courtney a second chance.
I'm not denying that. Courtney does have a right to be angry, but she should still forgive Bridgette.
| BrainMan820 wrote: |
| You're completely ignoring all arguments in order to argue something irrelevant. Deal with the topic at hand. Or do you simply have no argument, and will admit to Beth being a thief. How was it unnecessary? Sadie did cost them a challenge, it would not be prudent to keep her. Further, she was not in the larger Bass alliance like DJ was. Actually, it is irrelevant. The fact that Noah complains about Courtney does not prove Courtney is annoying, as Noah does this regardless of whether they are annoying or not. Provide some more plausible evidence. Your argument about Courtney being mean in TDI makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You say she is mean because of unseen things? You can't prove that. So Harold has done something he regrets. Whoop-de-doo. Not like he owned up to it. He hid from Courtney like a rat, and Duncan had to "find out" about Harold's tampering. He wasn't about to own up to it. Where did Lindsay get the idea that no one likes Courtney? Well, seeing as how Lindsay is the one who drank shampoo believing it was a magic potion, I'd say it was something she pulled out of thin air. Courtney grabbing Duncan by the wrist does not give her an advantage. Without something to brace herself, not to mention Duncan being heavier than Courtney, such a move would put her at more risk than him. |
No offense, but I think you're acting a little bit hypocritical. You keep penalizing me for ignoring facts, while you are supposedly doing the exact same thing. I already gave you my arguments as to why you shouldn't completely blame Beth. You're willing to constantly penalize responsible characters for their actions, but you've never once acknowledged the fact that Courtney's never regretted any of hers. You think that it's okay for her to steal a hot air balloon, to throw out death threats, to put people down and to call them out on their flaws. But yet, you tend to target the more responsible ones who perform acts to defend themselves. And you still believe that Courtney to be more of a protaginist?
I don't recall DJ ever being in an alliance with the Bass. All I could remember was that both DJ and Geoff costed the challenge by removing their blindfolds. They both messed up and either of them could have been the next to go. And recall the satisfied look that Courtney had as soon as Sadie was booted. She wasn't happy that Saide costed the challenge. She was glad to get her back because she thought that Sadie pelted her with apples on purpose.
Courtney is annoying. What more proof do you need? The fact that Noah complains about everybody doesn't hinder the fact that he was just being blunt.
Again, TDI is a reality show. In other words, it is filmed all over campus. Stuff is revealed, things are aired. I mean look at what happened with Eva's second elimination. You think that Chris never airs his footage? He does. How else could you explain about how Duncan "found out" about the tampering? How does Harold expect to own up to someone who wants to beat him with a lamppost? As far as I'm concerned, Courtney wasn't looking for an apology, she was looking for revenge. At least he admitted that what he did to Courtney was faulty. You can't exactly blame someone when they're hiding for their life. The fact that Courtney was vengeful, doesn't make Harold want to apologize anymore than he did before.
The only friends that Courtney had were Duncan and Bridgette. She was mean to Tyler, she was mean to Sadie, she was mean to Harold and she barely had any interaction with Geoff and DJ. That's how.
Where do you get off saying that Duncan was heavier than she was? You're assuming that she would be at greater risk because he's heavier than her. That makes no sense. She was on one column and so was Duncan, promting them both to be in the same boat. But again, Courtney still has the upperhand over him. During the time that she kissed, she seemed to have more balance than him. And judging by the size of her bone, she could have easily jabbed Duncan while he was caught off guard.
| imverybasic wrote: | ||
There's nothing strange about it. I took everybody's wrongs and injuries into equal account. I accounted Courtney's feelings, didn't I? I said that she had a right to be angry whenever she was harmed or injured. I admitted that Courtney was unfairly voted off, although Chris didn't think otherwise. There's just an exceptional difference for the vote tampering: Harold booted Courtney unfairly for the sake of revenge (like you said). Throughout the show, he was getting taunted and rediculed for everything that was happeneing to him, and whether or not he admitted it, Courtney was part of it. I'm free to admit that perhaps he should have went for Duncan, instead of Courtney but then it wouldn't accomplish much. His motive was to make Duncan suffer; something that Duncan was doing to him all season. And even though Courtney was a lot nicer than Duncan, she in no way was innocent about the whole thing. Again, going back to the "skinny arms" crack. Courtney was basically verbally abusing Harold. She called him out on his appearance, she told him that he sucked when he tried to help out his team, she showcased his arm to his entire team... Those which were all completely and horrendously unneccessary and uncalled for on Courtney's part. And yet you penalize Harold for an act that he performed as a gesture of defense, you ignore the fact that Courtney was one of the competitors that provoked him into performing this act. I don't know where you get this idea where I ignore the facts. I never said anything about being annoying as against the rules. I said that being annoying makes you look unattractive as a person. And in case you haven't noticed, Courtney's been whining and moaning about not getting her way. I never said anything about it being against the rules. And yet you penalize Beth for taking Courtney's PDA, you're willing to accomodate her for stealing a hot air balloon-- this in which is not only considered theft, but also considered to be a larger offense. Chris didn't disqualify her for taking the balloon, but nor did he disqualify Leshawna for stealing the ATV, and keep in mind that Chris was watching everything on tape. This makes absoultely no sense. If you say that Courtney's elimination was unfair, why do you say that Chris didn't have to do anything about it? Recall that if it wasn't for Courtney's threat to sue, she wouldn't even have had that opportunity to come back in the first place. Chris didn't do anything about it because he felt that Harold did the right thing. If he thought that what he did to Courtney was completely unjust, he would have wanted to give Courtney a second chance. I'm not denying that. Courtney does have a right to be angry, but she should still forgive Bridgette. |
How, exactly, does Harold's whining justify mistreatment? Harold was not "defending" himself; Duncan was still around. He just went for the pain, and further than that, it wasn't a strategy move or anything. It was just to hurt him. That's unforgivable. That's what socipaths do.
I'm actaully not accomodating Courtney for stealing the balloon: It's completely irrelevant. It would be just like discussing something Sadie did. What does it have to do with that fact that Beth stole Courtney's PDA?
I might as well reverse your question on you. Chris deosn't do anything about it until he is forced, but he doesn't think that Harold is in the right. He states that Harold was stupid because Duncan is a bully, and bully bullies. You're letting your own opinion supercede.
| imverybasic wrote: | ||
No offense, but I think you're acting a little bit hypocritical. You keep penalizing me for ignoring facts, while you are supposedly doing the exact same thing. I already gave you my arguments as to why you shouldn't completely blame Beth. You're willing to constantly penalize responsible characters for their actions, but you've never once acknowledged the fact that Courtney's never regretted any of hers. You think that it's okay for her to steal a hot air balloon, to throw out death threats, to put people down and to call them out on their flaws. But yet, you tend to target the more responsible ones who perform acts to defend themselves. And you still believe that Courtney to be more of a protaginist? I don't recall DJ ever being in an alliance with the Bass. All I could remember was that both DJ and Geoff costed the challenge by removing their blindfolds. They both messed up and either of them could have been the next to go. And recall the satisfied look that Courtney had as soon as Sadie was booted. She wasn't happy that Saide costed the challenge. She was glad to get her back because she thought that Sadie pelted her with apples on purpose. Courtney is annoying. What more proof do you need? The fact that Noah complains about everybody doesn't hinder the fact that he was just being blunt. Again, TDI is a reality show. In other words, it is filmed all over campus. Stuff is revealed, things are aired. I mean look at what happened with Eva's second elimination. You think that Chris never airs his footage? He does. How else could you explain about how Duncan "found out" about the tampering? How does Harold expect to own up to someone who wants to beat him with a lamppost? As far as I'm concerned, Courtney wasn't looking for an apology, she was looking for revenge. At least he admitted that what he did to Courtney was faulty. You can't exactly blame someone when they're hiding for their life. The fact that Courtney was vengeful, doesn't make Harold want to apologize anymore than he did before. The only friends that Courtney had were Duncan and Bridgette. She was mean to Tyler, she was mean to Sadie, she was mean to Harold and she barely had any interaction with Geoff and DJ. That's how. Where do you get off saying that Duncan was heavier than she was? You're assuming that she would be at greater risk because he's heavier than her. That makes no sense. She was on one column and so was Duncan, promting them both to be in the same boat. But again, Courtney still has the upperhand over him. During the time that she kissed, she seemed to have more balance than him. And judging by the size of her bone, she could have easily jabbed Duncan while he was caught off guard. |
I've acknowledged it plenty of times: I've answered that repeatedly. You people are the ones forgiving others because it is anti-Courtney. Never once did I say Courtney was a protagonist either, and I'm honestly really sick of repeating myself. I have stated that the other characters are no more virtuous than she is. Harold cheated (there was no "defense" involved, now that's proof you're biased) and you think it's okay. Beth stole and you think it's okay, Lindsay manipualted and you think it's okay, but when Courtney does them, it's not.
I'm freely willing to admit that Courtney liked it when Sadie got her comeuppance. What's your point? Sadie still cost them the challenge.
Proof? Why should I be doing your job for you?
So Courtney was looking for revenge, big deal. What does that have to do with Harold not owning up to his mistakes. DJ did that.
Tyler had practically no interaction with Courtney, and she was far nicer to him than any other Bass teammate. She defended him from the chicken insults. She and DJ had a positive relationship with plenty of encouragement, minus the one harsh time with the snake. Further, DJ and Geoff get along with everyone.
| BrainMan820 wrote: |
| How, exactly, does Harold's whining justify mistreatment? Harold was not "defending" himself; Duncan was still around. He just went for the pain, and further than that, it wasn't a strategy move or anything. It was just to hurt him. That's unforgivable. That's what socipaths do. |
Harold is a sociopath for voting off Courtney for revenge, and Courtney isn't for wanting to drop four innocent guys to their death?
And during the game, Harold never "whined" about being hurt and humilated (hot sauce to the balls, getting stripped naked in front of the girls), whereas Courtney throws a temper tantrum whenever she doesn't get a damn prize.
But of course you're not biased.
| shishkabob999 wrote: | ||
Harold is a sociopath for voting off Courtney for revenge, and Courtney isn't for wanting to drop four innocent guys to their death? And during the game, Harold never "whined" about being hurt and humilated (hot sauce to the balls, getting stripped naked in front of the girls), whereas Courtney throws a temper tantrum whenever she doesn't get a damn prize.
But of course you're not biased. |
Yeah. Truth being told.
If anyone is sociopathic, Brainman, it's Courtney. Cheating isn't a sign of a sociopath, willingness to commit murder is.
Even if Harold did whine, he has a much better reason. Being bullied.
Courtney? Hardly anything worth whining over. Being cheated off? Perhaps. But whining over a prize? Honestly? She's nothing but a selfish brat. She's lucky to even be on the show.
| BrainMan820 wrote: |
| How, exactly, does Harold's whining justify mistreatment? Harold was not "defending" himself; Duncan was still around. He just went for the pain, and further than that, it wasn't a strategy move or anything. It was just to hurt him. That's unforgivable. That's what socipaths do. I'm actaully not accomodating Courtney for stealing the balloon: It's completely irrelevant. It would be just like discussing something Sadie did. What does it have to do with that fact that Beth stole Courtney's PDA? I might as well reverse your question on you. Chris deosn't do anything about it until he is forced, but he doesn't think that Harold is in the right. He states that Harold was stupid because Duncan is a bully, and bully bullies. You're letting your own opinion supercede. |
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Harold whines? Okay... I won't even bother touching that one. So if Harold wasn't defending himself, what would you call giving someone a taste of their own medicine? Duncan was still here and still bullied him. And Harold knew this beforehand how? His plan was to give Duncan the exact same treatment that he was recieving. How does this not qualify as defending yourself? Sure, Harold's a psychopath for making Duncan suffer, but Duncan is a complete saint for pouring hotsauce in his underwear...
This is irrelevant how? Beth took Courtney's PDA. You say that's considered theft, okay so admittedly I agree with you there. But Courtney stealing a hot air balloon isn't considered theft? Both have commited acts of theft, except Courtney committed a bigger offense and never once felt remorseful about it. Why should characters have to own up to their actions if Courtney never does?
So? Chris obviously has the power to bring back previous contestants. Does he do that with Courtney? No. He may have stated that what Harold did was stupid, but does he believe that it was unfair and unjust to Courtney? No. He said it was unfair to Duncan.
| BrainMan820 wrote: |
| I've acknowledged it plenty of times: I've answered that repeatedly. You people are the ones forgiving others because it is anti-Courtney. Never once did I say Courtney was a protagonist either, and I'm honestly really sick of repeating myself. I have stated that the other characters are no more virtuous than she is. Harold cheated (there was no "defense" involved, now that's proof you're biased) and you think it's okay. Beth stole and you think it's okay, Lindsay manipualted and you think it's okay, but when Courtney does them, it's not. I'm freely willing to admit that Courtney liked it when Sadie got her comeuppance. What's your point? Sadie still cost them the challenge. Proof? Why should I be doing your job for you? So Courtney was looking for revenge, big deal. What does that have to do with Harold not owning up to his mistakes. DJ did that. Tyler had practically no interaction with Courtney, and she was far nicer to him than any other Bass teammate. She defended him from the chicken insults. She and DJ had a positive relationship with plenty of encouragement, minus the one harsh time with the snake. Further, DJ and Geoff get along with everyone. |
Seriously. I don't understand how you think that everyone is more vitorius than Courtney. I've repeated this countless times and yet, you fail to acknowledge this: Courtney stole, she has abused, she was willing to let four campers die... Any legitimate reason for these things? No. Harold cheated. Any reason for it? Why, yes there is. Courtney and Duncan were both making him miserable. Lindsay made Courtney angry. Any reason for this? Yes, there is. Insults about her kept flying out of Courtney's mouth when all Lindsay was trying to do was be helpful to the challenge. Beth took Courtney's PDA. But what did she do before that? Well, she tried to do the responsible thing before doing anything else. Did Courtney ask to borrow the hot air balloon? No. She flat-out steals it and doesn't feel bad about it. So Courtney's supposed to be less vitorious, how?
DJ and Geoff costed their challenges. Where's their punishment?
I won't even bother...
So, let me get this straight. It's okay for Courtney to get revenge, but it's not okay for Harold?
Other than the time she stood up for him for the chicken insult, when has Courtney ever been nice to Tyler? Other than the time with the snake, when did Courtney and DJ actually interact? There's a simple explanation as to why DJ and Geoff get along with everybody: Their nice people. They notice and bring out the good in everybody, including grouchy people like Gwen. This is what makes them kind, soft spoken people. Courtney, is the complete opposite of this.
