Agree to disagree?
Too bad we probably can't turn this into a more... mature debate, like the ones on the Death Note forums.
Edited on 10/09/2009 2:11pm
TELETOON
Agree to disagree?
Too bad we probably can't turn this into a more... mature debate, like the ones on the Death Note forums.
| Brodoin15 wrote: |
Agree to disagree? Too bad we probably can't turn this into a more... mature debate, like the ones on the Death Note forums. |
| shishkabob999 wrote: | ||
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As in not immature, where people didn't act like children and would make well thought out posts.
| Brodoin15 wrote: | ||||
As in not immature, where people didn't act like children and would make well thought out posts. |
| BrainMan820 wrote: | ||||||
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Then I'll answer the question.
Yes, Harold does deserve to be picked on by Duncan and/or Courtney. He willingly broke the rules to get revenge on someone just because a totally different person picked on him. Harold willingly went for the pain to hurt Courtney, who never said anything more then insult his dodgeball playing (which was true.) As such, Harold deserved the revenge Courtney set on him at Playa de Losers. She hasn't taken any more revenge on him after that, but she is still entitled to it. Nothing Harold has done has redeemed or exonerated himself towards Courtney, as her return to TDA was not done on his part.
Duncan's a bully, and, at the beginning of the series, he had no right to pick on Harold. His unhygenic and annoying practices, however, such as his snoring keeping the team up, made him an easy target, if not a rightful one. However, during TDA, Duncan knew that Harold cheated off Courtney. As an injured party (losing his girlfriend), he has his right to take revenge, since, as stated before, Harold hasn't performed any pennance. Now, there is no need for Harold to perform pennance to Duncan, but there is to Courtney. After all, Duncan didn't lose out on the money because of Courtney's departure.
| BrainMan820 wrote: |
| Harold hasn't performed any pennance. Now, there is no need for Harold to perform pennance to Duncan, but there is to Courtney. After all, Duncan didn't lose out on the money because of Courtney's departure. |
The dodgeball game wasn't the only time Courtney insulted Harold. She made many more comments during challenges which were completely unneccessary and un-called for. This wasn't as agonizing as what Duncan put him through, however this does not give Courtney the right to point out things. These comments are mean, hurtful and they don't solve anything. If anything, making comments like that is a form of bullying and it gives the victum more reason to fight back. With Duncan, he is my favorite character but his treatment towards Harold is completely inexcusable. Duncan is a bully and while I understand where bullies come from, Duncan has absolutely no right to torment someone who has done nothing but keep the balance amongst his team and all the while, forgiven Duncan for all the nasty things he has done to him.
Furthermore, if Haorld would have gone for Duncan instead of Courtney, there would be a pretty good chance that Duncan would have grown wise to his plans and tried to foil it in any possible way that he can/could. Had Harold went through with the plan, sooner or later, he would be caught with Duncan beating him senseless. Whether Harold tried to vote either of them off, it would result him into getting burned. It's like KarmaGoddess said, Duncan loves to bully and loves to make excuses for his bullying and whether Harold played by his ethics from that episode is completely irrelevant becuase either way, it would result into one of them wanting to get revenge on him. And from all he's been through, I strongly believe that Harold did the right thing. Whether all those remarks that Courtney made about Harold were true or not, they shouldn't have been said.
| Diddy_2000 wrote: |
| I like being purple. |
...
We're talking about whether or Harold deserves to be picked on. Also, if Duncan and Courtney should take revenge on him.
The answer is no.
| shishkabob999 wrote: | ||
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That has nothing to do with Harold's cheating. Harold had his own motivation for such an act. First, it's clear he wanted to form an alliance with Courtney. It's honestly a smart move considering that Courtney is the most ruthless player there. She has a big sign that says "TARGET" tattooed on her forehead. A secret alliance with her is the best of both worlds: No one considers Harold if Courtney is immune because he can hide behind Duncan, and if Courtney is not immune, eyes go to her.
Further, Harold didn't trust Leshawna after her lie. Sure, he still had a crush on her, but Harold is playing this game to win the million. Getting rid of Leshawna is strategic, because the only females left to threaten the guys alliance are Lindsay, Beth, and Courtney, and Courtney is the strongest. Lindsay and Beth are easy pickings, particularly because they fawn over Justin.
| imverybasic wrote: |
The dodgeball game wasn't the only time Courtney insulted Harold. She made many more comments during challenges which were completely unneccessary and un-called for. This wasn't as agonizing as what Duncan put him through, however this does not give Courtney the right to point out things. These comments are mean, hurtful and they don't solve anything. If anything, making comments like that is a form of bullying and it gives the victum more reason to fight back. With Duncan, he is my favorite character but his treatment towards Harold is completely inexcusable. Duncan is a bully and while I understand where bullies come from, Duncan has absolutely no right to torment someone who has done nothing but keep the balance amongst his team and all the while, forgiven Duncan for all the nasty things he has done to him. Furthermore, if Haorld would have gone for Duncan instead of Courtney, there would be a pretty good chance that Duncan would have grown wise to his plans and tried to foil it in any possible way that he can/could. Had Harold went through with the plan, sooner or later, he would be caught with Duncan beating him senseless. Whether Harold tried to vote either of them off, it would result him into getting burned. It's like KarmaGoddess said, Duncan loves to bully and loves to make excuses for his bullying and whether Harold played by his ethics from that episode is completely irrelevant becuase either way, it would result into one of them wanting to get revenge on him. And from all he's been through, I strongly believe that Harold did the right thing. Whether all those remarks that Courtney made about Harold were true or not, they shouldn't have been said. |
There is nothing wrong with pointing things out, and neither are they malicious. Courtney said that Harold's arms weren't going to cut it for pushing back several canoes.
What you've described regarding Duncan has nothing to do with their bullying. Whether or not Harold was justified in cheating is only relevant to whether the cheating is a legitimate reason for Duncan or Courtney to antagonize him. How, exactly, if Harold did NOT cheat, would Courtney have taken revenge on him? Courtney has never shown to antagonize Harold with a reason, namely, his cheating. That doesn't justify Harold's cheating at all, it only says that Duncan would have taken revenge if Harold had cheated him off. What difference does that make whether Harold cheated off Duncan, Courtney, or any other camper.
| HaydenAvery wrote: |
| Duncan had no right to bully harold. besides courtney DESERVED to go. she cost them the military challenge because she let loose too much. in TDDDI harold wanted to come along with them. obviously wanting to get somewhere in the peace department. but no time and again courtney will never let him live it down. harold doesnt need to apologize for other peoples stupid actions. you know what else? how are we sure that courtney hadnt been voted off? as for harold voting out leshawna its because courtney unfairly tricked him. and from the aftermath we know of the courtney cam. last time i checked spying on people isnt very fair. courtney cant break the rules because she and her lawyers make them. |
its simple logic really. the guys were constantly picking on harold duncan do the worst. harold was overwhelmed by the bullying which is why he cheated. i mean honestly. after picking on harold so much they were gonna vote him off? duncan has no right to pick on harold the wya he did. he got his revenge, harold regrets what he did, courtney is back on the show and obviously harolds gonna play fair this time. duncan is just a loser who keeps petty grudges. i bet that even if harold never did that he would probably still pick on harold alot for fun anyways.
at the end of the day its simply logic. dont bully others and everything will be ok
I do like Duncan, but it is pretty much his fault for everything. If he hadn't bullied Harold, nothing would have happened. So Duncan is to blame for everything.
Harold does have some annoying habits, yes, but that didn't give Duncan the right to bully him. He could have told him it bothered him, or something.
| Brodoin15 wrote: |
I do like Duncan, but it is pretty much his fault for everything. If he hadn't bullied Harold, nothing would have happened. So Duncan is to blame for everything. Harold does have some annoying habits, yes, but that didn't give Duncan the right to bully him. He could have told him it bothered him, or something. |
Duncan's bullying does not excuse Harold in the slightest, merely because it was ultimately a conscious decision made by Harold out of spite. Harold is ultimately responsible for his own actions: he is the one who made them.
Simple logic disctates that Harold is responsible for his own actions. Duncan and his pranks are irrelevant because Harold cheated off Courtney, not him. He just wanted Duncan to suffer. There is no excuse for such an act done purely of malice. Say what you will of Courtney's harshness, she was willing to help Harold out (giving him the strategy to win in dodgeball, and actually letting him go in the talent contest. Please recall that Geoff, DJ, and Courtney all had excellent talents lined up. A little harsh, yes, but not malevolent.)
Harold, by contrast, doesn't have anything to balance out his cheating. He's willing to work with the team for the challenges, but we rarely, if ever, see kindness out of him.
