ThisCrazyGuy - "IN "THE SOUTHERN RAIDERS" and "THE BOILING ROCK PART 2" Azula was NOT trying hard against Zuko at all... She also had Sokka's sword to worry about in "The Boiling Rock part 2", and in "The Southern Raiders", I don't know if you listened to me, but as Axrendale once pointed out, she resourcefully saved herself, Zuko on the other hand would have broken every single bone in his entire body..."

How do you know she wasnt trying hard? im serious here? HOW wasnt she trying hard? AND yes there was sokka's sword, but that was a bloody sword. Without Zuko there sokka would have been toast. You just keep repeating this, but wheres the proof. WHY would Azula not try??? i just dont get it? Azula has ALWAYS tried to win a fight, to be perfect, she wouldn't just layoff and go easy on someone, even when she toys with you she'll do a serious move to kill you, and will pick up the heat when you start to beat her. The girl even gets angry at her friends for being better than her ie Ty-Lee.

And as i said- Her saving herself WAS NOT part of the fight, and that if she had fallen futher away from the edge like Zuko had it prob would have been unlikely she would have reached the wall. And for all we know Zuko could have tried the same thing, but he was rescued Before he had chance. Azula didnt do it till after Zuko was saved. Zuko had witnessed Azula do same thing in BR and it wouldnt be first time he has learnt a move quickly.

ThisCrazyGuy - "You can't just take a battle where Azula was better than Zuko, and say it doesn't count... Azula would have lived, Zuko would have died, end of discussion..."

Which battle? The S2E1? Yep he was beat there, no doubt, but as i said this first showed Azula;s weakness at not finishing a job quickly, instead fart-aszing around and then having her own azs wooped.

This Crazy Guy - "If Zuko ever DID try to match Azula strategy's, he would probably fail... He could kill a lot of people... But not Azula herself..."

how do we know this??? Zuko has done some pretty cunning stuff in the past, and can expertly use his abilities. BEST Example- CROD. Difference? Zuko would not put innocent ppl at risk, so like with how he intends his blast not to kill or seriously harm, Azula has this over him, BUT she has had these moves blocked on serveral occasions including Zuko

ThisCrazyGuy- " Zuko is part of the Fire Nation Royal Family... (Iroh, Ozai, Zuko and Azula), they are seriously the best Firebenders in the world, I doubt anyone could measure up to them, where as the other people with YEARS experience Katara beat, are probably average Firebenders... And it's not only that, but he blind-sided her... He caught her off-guard..."

I was talking about Waterbenders, but both same point SO a blast from him which previous night would have been steamed easily succeeded during day but doesnt count? And cant ignore how he was doing during the night, where he also was focused on getting around Katara rather than fighting her.

ThisCrazyGuy - "I never said Zuko couldn't give Azula a run for her money... I just said (And I am agreed with by Axrendale and Isabelwhatx) he will never be equal to her... She will always be his slight superior... Improvement against Azula means nothing until you actually beat her... And she was against the Avatar ASWELL... She couldn't have him getting in the way... He was like a fly that was trying to get into her eye, he was just a very annoying, threatening distraction..."

Here we are ignoring an important fact; potential doesnt mean you are better. Its how well you use what you have and your experience that counts. Azula does intead have more potential than zuko (with what we've been shown) but that doesnt mean she will always be better than him. If Zuko had been 6 years old than her instead, Zuko would beat a 10 yo Azula, and most likely a 14 year old Azula. If Azula had been lazy like Aang in S1, then Zuko like Katara would beat Azula in their respective element. Its a matter of what you know and how well you are trained. Azula is intend well trained and has greater potential power, but like Obi Wan (heads up Gilvatar ) ZUko has had the extra years of experience (which was also in the field rather than thoery) and like Obi Wan he draws his power from a healthier place than Azula now. Azula own source of power helped to consume her, like Zuko's was at times through out the series, leading ultimately to her losing a great deal of her control

Azula doesnt know everything (two examples being good source of FB and Redirecting lightning) and is not the best at everything (i have no dobt Iroh prob could beat her, same with Ozai) - She could be, but who she is as a person prevents her from being so.

I like Azula, but you cannot make her out to be the "be all and end all of firebending"

No offence, but I keep repeating myself, because your not really listening to me or the majority of my arguments...

Sektos said - "How do you know she wasnt trying hard? im serious here? HOW wasnt she trying hard? AND yes there was sokka's sword, but that was a bloody sword. Without Zuko there sokka would have been toast. You just keep repeating this, but wheres the proof. WHY would Azula not try??? i just dont get it? Azula has ALWAYS tried to win a fight, to be perfect, she wouldn't just layoff and go easy on someone, even when she toys with you she'll do a serious move to kill you, and will pick up the heat when you start to beat her. The girl even gets angry at her friends for being better than her ie Ty-Lee."

When have you actually seen Azula try? Against Zuko? Can you please name a time where Azula has found battling Zuko (or anyone else for that matter (apart from a couple of her battles)) hard (Not the final...)? Please? The proof is: LOOK AT HER! Look at the confidence and lack of sweat she shows in battle. She always has to be perfect, it's been her nature since she was a young girl to be perfect and at fourteen years old, it's still her nature to be perfect, it's who Azula is... BUT, there is a huge difference between trying hard in battle and being perfect in battle... She always keeps a straight, if not, cocky face, whenever she's in battle... She never gives off signs of trying, or capabilities beyond her reach, in fights... Her body language, facial expressions and athleticism, have never showed her to find battle with Zuko hard... And what do you mean, "it was just a sword"...? I don't know if some people have been paying attention in life, but swords kill you, so, there for, Sokka was a distraction. Like when she got confident and he pointed the blade into her face, she almost fell, so Sokka proved to be a worthy distraction... I never even said Sokka would be alive if Zuko wasn't there... And the point of me bringing up Azula saving herself was, to give you a decent example of her resourceful abilities and thinking strategy... She toys around with everybody, she only tries when she needs to, and that has never been the case when she is against Zuko... People have been better than her at things (Ty Lee - Cartwheels), but Zuko isn't one of those people...

And I find it weird that you fail to admit the fact that Zuko would have died based on his battle with Azula, in "The Southern Raiders"... You bring up my quote, but you don't mention the battle and episode I talked about most... At all. There is no "That battle doesn't count" card that you can play there... That was the series #1 best example of how Azula and Zuko's fights would go if they were alone... One of the things that you don't seem to have mentioned (If you have, I apologise, it's been a long day for me ), is there fight in "The Southern Raiders"... Do you realise, that if Zuko wasn't saved (AGAIN), he would have landed right next to Combustion Man's dead body (I love saying that)? He would have broken every existing bone in his body and died... Azula, on the other hand, was able to resourcefully save herself in high air, using her capabilities... What I'm sure everybody knows I'm getting at, is that, if Zuko (Typically) didn't have people there to (Yet again) save him, he would have lost the battle and died... Azula was able to save herself, sporting a pretty damn hot pose at the end of the battle... You mention every single one of their battles, but that one (Especially the ending)...

Sektos said - "And as i said- "Her saving herself WAS NOT part of the fight, and that if she had fallen futher away from the edge like Zuko had it prob would have been unlikely she would have reached the wall. And for all we know Zuko could have tried the same thing, but he was rescued Before he had chance. Azula didnt do it till after Zuko was saved. Zuko had witnessed Azula do same thing in BR and it wouldnt be first time he has learnt a move quickly."

But she DIDN'T fall further on to the edge, because she is supreme, and, every time we think Azula is going to lose, she doesn't... Zuko AND Ozai have said it... That girl was simply "born lucky"... I won't count that, but that battle once again proved that if Zuko and Azula were alone, the ending would have been similar to what COULD have happened to Zuko, had Mai NOT saved him (and everyone else)...

Sektos said - "Which battle? The S2E1? Yep he was beat there, no doubt, but as i said this first showed Azula;s weakness at not finishing a job quickly, instead fart-aszing around and then having her own azs wooped."

But the point is, if Iroh wasn't there, Zuko = As good as Ozai's current Firebending + Dead... And Zuko didn't kick her ass, Iroh just kicked her of a cliff... Speaking of Iroh, even he is scared of this girl... Just thought I'd point that out...

Sektos said - "how do we know this??? Zuko has done some pretty cunning stuff in the past, and can expertly use his abilities. BEST Example- CROD. Difference? Zuko would not put innocent ppl at risk, so like with how he intends his blast not to kill or seriously harm, Azula has this over him, BUT she has had these moves blocked on serveral occasions including Zuko"

Every Firebender from the Royal Family has done some "pretty cunning stuff" in the past, the rest of them, more than Zuko infact... And I think it's safe to say, in "The Crossroads of Destiny", Zuko was trying to kill Aang... Azula's moves can be blocked, I'm not saying she's invincible...

Sektos said - "I was talking about Waterbenders, but both same point SO a blast from him which previous night would have been steamed easily succeeded during day but doesnt count? And cant ignore how he was doing during the night, where he also was focused on getting around Katara rather than fighting her."

He got owned in the fight, and Katara had YEARS less experience as an official bender than he did... Yeah sure, he wasn't TRYING to get her, but he still got badly whooped, and he was still trying to lethally knock her out of the way... And you didn't mention the fact that he got her while she was barely even looking, she barely had time to bend when he knocked her out...

Sektos said - "Here we are ignoring an important fact; potential doesnt mean you are better. Its how well you use what you have and your experience that counts. Azula does intead have more potential than zuko (with what we've been shown) but that doesnt mean she will always be better than him. If Zuko had been 6 years old than her instead, Zuko would beat a 10 yo Azula, and most likely a 14 year old Azula. If Azula had been lazy like Aang in S1, then Zuko like Katara would beat Azula in their respective element. Its a matter of what you know and how well you are trained. Azula is intend well trained and has greater potential power, but like Obi Wan (heads up Gilvatar ) ZUko has had the extra years of experience (which was also in the field rather than thoery) and like Obi Wan he draws his power from a healthier place than Azula now. Azula own source of power helped to consume her, like Zuko's was at times through out the series, leading ultimately to her losing a great deal of her control"

Potential doesn't make you better, your right, BUT, Azula doesn't ACTUALLY need potential when it comes to wiping the floor with Zuko... I think she will always be better than him... She's younger, smarter, more accomplished (I know it doesn't matter, but I'm just playfully hyping Azula up ) and just a natural born talent... They are the young version of Ozai and Iroh... Ozai was visibly better than Iroh, but Iroh is STILL great... That's the same with Azula and Zuko... I have been mentioning potential a lot, but with the fact that I think Azula has more potential, I also think she is and always will be BETTER! I am agreed with by two Avatar-experts aswell (And probably LOADS more people)... Azula knows A LOT more than Zuko, despite not knowing everything... And I don't think you should be bringing "What if's?" into this either... They are who they are, and Azula is the more talented bender... And even if Zuko was older than Azula, the KIDS of this show are more powerful than the OLD masters, PLUS, age doesn't mean squat when you are a Firebending prodigy, master and legend all in one... Age doesn't mean anything in bending (Unless your under the age of eleven), the younger generation have proved to be more powerful than the older, a prodigy vs someone ten years older than them wouldn't really mean much... And yes, it is a matter of what you know, Azula doesn't know everything, quite frankly I never said she does, but she knows a hell of a let more than Zuko, academically, mentally and in bending... If Zuko has had the extra years of experience, (for what it's worth, he hasn't had THAT much more experience than Azula has), how come Azula always owns him...? Experience doesn't really mean anything, it helps, and gives you some sort of an advantage, but Zuko is going to need so much more than a couple years more experience to ever be as good as The Queen of blue fire... Azula draws her power from a bad place, but I don't think it's unhealthy... Only three people draw their power from the original source, so if the way she Firebends is unhealthy, then I guess the majority of the Fire Nation citizens are unhealthy... She was still smarter than him, when she was insane AND when she was drawing her power from a less powerful source... There are no what if's?... If there were, I could say, what if, Azula knew the way of The Dragons aswell? And then I could make my arguments a lot easier, because everyone knows Zuko would die...

Sektos said - "Azula doesnt know everything (two examples being good source of FB and Redirecting lightning) and is not the best at everything (i have no dobt Iroh prob could beat her, same with Ozai) - She could be, but who she is as a person prevents her from being so."

Whoa, stop there, EVERYONE knows Ozai and Iroh are the top two Firebenders, I never said she was as powerful as them (Although the fact that they are both DECADES older than her and the fact that she can rival them at age fourteen, deserves merit). When did I say Azula was the most powerful Firebender? All I have said, is that she is more powerful than Zuko, I am perfectly aware that she probably won't reach Ozai or Iroh's levels until she is a young woman (Around the age of twenty)... That is why I have said she is in the top three for best Firebenders (Ozai is first (or he was first), Iroh is second, and Azula is third...), she is a young girl, I know she isn't in either of those two people's leagues... She is the THIRD best Firebender in the world... When did I even say she DID know everything?

Sektos said - "I like Azula, but you cannot make her out to be the "be all and end all of firebending""

When did I ever do that? Thinking someone is better than Zuko doesn't mean I am exaggerating his or her abilities...

Well, we are all entitled to our opinions, and it is obvious we will never agree on this, so what do you guys say? Truce?