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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Zuko: Firebending Master?

  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [121]Sep 20, 2008
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    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    We've already come to the agreed upon conclusion that in TBR and TSR Azula and Zuko are equal as far as raw firebending goes. So discussing the actual fights is nullified somewhat. Instead, I was drawing attention to Azula's supeior tactical abilities and resourcefullness. "Got up from Azula's attack"? Unless I missed something, not until a good period of time had passed (long enough for Zuko and Azula to take down Katara). Zuko's most powerful attack had small effect on Aang. Azula's attack wiped him out (temporarily). Yep, Zuko recovered from his first knock-down by Aang. He did so only to get knocked down again. Zuko came out worst in their fight. Katara's attack might have been obvious (not to mention massive, and doubtless incredibly powerful), but it was by no means simple. Both of the first two attacks were aimed tentacles of water with the full force of the larger wave behind them. Azula blocked them both easily, and then the final attack was also dispersed. It was a far more powerful attack than the one that Zuko is getting so much credit for blocking when he fought Katara not long afterwards.
    Okay- http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/screenshots.php?ep=220&page=20 has screenshots from fight where Zuko joined. Yep Zuko got hit twice- one aang-shaped air and two MASSIVE stalictite- BUT both times Zuko got up straight away (thou have prob of cutaways here- after tite falls we cut to Katara, fight, then Zuko breaks Azula free). Plus Zuko pushed Aang up fall and then knocked him back with big blast and pushing him around with whips. Also after Aang knocked back Zuko for Second time he trapped himself Under Rocks! If Zuko had gone for him instead of Katara.... Again fairly even fight, and considering Aang is an Airmaster, and basically an EB and WB master two its incredible ZUko did that well (WHY did Aang do stupid armour against Azula *shakes head*) As for one blast Azula- We dont know how long Aang was down becaue we cut away to EK, sokka etc and when we cut back we go to what was happening in Kat/ZUk fight. It could have been quick or few momements for him to get up, but seeing as took Azula a while to join Zuk/Kat fight thou being right nxt to them im thinking that Zuko stuff happened during the Aang/Zuk fight, meaning Aang got up almost straight away.

    *scrutinizes pics*

    Yep, these pretty much confirm what I have been saying for some time now. Zuko loses to Aang.

    In the first part of the fight, there is no denying who comes off better - Zuko gets owned. He recovers. So what? Aang recovered from Azula's blast, likewise Katara was eventually able to get up from her crush against the pillar. Azula recovered quickly from her defeat by Katara. The fact is that in the first of their two skirmishes, Aang wins.

    In the second skirmish, Zuko attempts to reassert himself with some large, stylish, and powerful looking firebending attacks. Notable, however, is that he never manages to nab Aang with one of them - the Avatar pulls off a good combination of Airbending and Earthbending tactics - combining the strategies of "avoid and evade" and "wait for the right moment to strike". The right moment to strike, apparently, is when he finds a large, convenient looking giant stalactite that he drops down on Zuko. Once again, Zuko gets knocked down - hard.

    So Zuko fails against Aang. Azula succeeds brilliantly. Her powered up attack is plainly far more powerful than Zuko's most powerful shot - it blasts Aang right across the cavern and through a wall. We don't know how long he stayed down for, but we know he stayed down for some time.

    Also, Aang's decision to use armour and charge wasn't stupid. He had reason to think it would succeed - just minutes before he had used a shield of those same crystals to successfully block Zuko's most powerful attack. He probably reasoned that if a rapidly summoned sheild of crystal could block that attack, a carefully held together suit of armour could handle anything Azula could trhow at him. How was he to know that Azula's attack would be so such more powerful than Zuko's?

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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [122]Sep 20, 2008
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    Sektos wrote:
    Okay i am REAALLLLLLY piszed now!!! my whole post just got wiped for NOOOOOOOOOOO reason!!!!!!! *screams in fustration*

    Thanks for support and good points Gilvatar

    ThisCrazyGuy- sorry mate, hade good reply to your stuff yes i did mention SR (re-read my post) and even Axrendale agrees that they are dead even in raw firebending (to add to that Axrendale- Zuko is also quite accomplished ninja he too is great at acrobatics)

    OHHHH and definite before i grumble off about new TV.com to dinner- ZUko was NOOOOOOOOOT aiming to kill Aang. He was just as shock as Katara when he was hit. Zuko, like i said in previous post about his fighting style, does not aim to kill or seriously harm. AND EVEN if someone believed ZUko was actually evil in first season he wouldnt do i for same reason Zhao didnt- he would just Reincarnate!!!!! Alot of my opion on topic is in previous posts you might have missed.
    Now im really hungry and piszed at tv.com so im off! cya all later
    That's okay, I know this new version of the site sucks, and I know exactly how you feel... Anyway, Axrendale may agree with you, but I don't, and I never will... Unfortunetly my computer broke down, my laptop won't work, and I'm having to use my dad's... So I probably won't be on that much in the next seven days...
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [123]Sep 20, 2008
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    Hey, i think we all foun someething we can al agree on. It would be cool to see Zuko & Azula team up to pwn the crap out of whoever made this format.
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [124]Sep 20, 2008
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    Sektos wrote:
    Ohhh
    And Axrendale- in CROD of destiny they were equal- Zuko dodged many og Aang's moves and had Aang on the run even blasting him away at end before then SAVING Azula- and YES both you and ThisCrazyGuy bring that up as being she hasnt fought her before and again raises my (and Gilvatar's) point that Zuko is prob more experienced in the field.
    Being experienced in the field is a catch, but you are going to need SO MUCH more than that to pull one over on Azula...
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [125]Sep 20, 2008
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    gilvatar wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    gilvatar wrote:
    my 2cents on the Azula vs. Zuko thing is thta they are pretty much equal, yes equal, in skill now. (Don't brong up lightning b/c now that Zuko's got his termoil sorted out, which was his main road block, he probubly could do it now). The difference is that Azula has natural talent and Zuko doesn't. Zuko had to work hard for his skill. He had to run drill after drill after drill b4 he got it right and I bet Azula was like "ok thats the skill? *whips it out* what's next?" Because of this, Zuko probubly has the moves better burned (pun partially intended) into his brain so he can probubly recall them easier than her (don't flame me Azula lovers please). aw crap what was I gonna say next? Oh yeah, and you can't deny that he has more feild experience than her. That's just a fact as far as we know. He's been out in the feild for 3 years she's been out there 3-4 months maybe + she had way more resources than him (just look at the ships they were sent out in).
    If he has more experience, how come he gets owned all the time by Azula? Experience isn't really needed in most Avatar battles... It's been proved.
    when? Did u do aa science fair project on if experience helps? B/c in pretty much everything experience helps. I'm not saying it'll make the difference btween wins and loses but it's a small perk; like wearing shoes when u're getting off a ship (trust me, it helps, I know. Wanna know how I know? From experience, but that's a story for another time.) but it is a fact that Zuko's been out longer than she has. btw, even Ax saes they were equal in the end. So that means no one was pwning, not even Azula.
    Experience means everything in life... Believe me, I myself, know... I have been in situations like this, but how many years of experience does Zuko have over Azula...? About two, possibly three? I don't know if you have been paying attention to Azula's character, but one of her main specialties, has been her ability to compete with almost anyone she likes, any time, any place, from people like The Avatar, to Katara, to Zuko... I am almost certain she could beat one or two of the old masters... Experience doesn't count in EVERYTHING, Azula's youth and raw talent would prove that, and quite frankly HAS proved that... Against Zuko at SOME points... Oh, and Axrendale may agree with you, I can respect that 100%, but that doesn't mean I agree with you... Me and Axrendale are two completely different people (Although I think Ax is one of the most awesome and friendly guys on these Forums)... Oh, and I might not be on here as much for the next seven days, getting laptop AND computer fixed...
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [126]Sep 20, 2008
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    gilvatar wrote:
    Hey, i think we all foun someething we can al agree on. It would be cool to see Zuko & Azula team up to pwn the crap out of whoever made this format.
    I agree with you 100% on that note! What a team that would be! I mean, they did afterall, own, in the second season's final!
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [127]Sep 20, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Azula would have defeated Zuko if Mai hadn't butted in. That loss had nothing to do with Azula. Zuko was about to fall to his death in a huge, boiling lake.
    THANK YOU ISABEL! That is the point I have been trying to make for a long time!
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [128]Sep 20, 2008
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    Sektos wrote:
    Just reread earlier posts and realised again points that got deleted. This Crazy Guy you do realise you contridicted yourself before

    This CrazyGuy-

    "....BUT, Azula doesn't ACTUALLY need potential when it comes to wiping the floor with Zuko... They are the young version of Ozai and Iroh... Ozai was visibly better than Iroh, but Iroh is STILL great... That's the same with Azula and Zuko..."

    "And I don't think you should be bringing "What if's?" into this either... They are who they are, and Azula is the more talented bender... And even if Zuko was older than Azula... age doesn't mean squat when you are a Firebending prodigy, master and legend all in one... Age doesn't mean anything in bending .... prodigy vs someone ten years older than them wouldn't really mean much..."

    "If Zuko has had the extra years of experience, (for what it's worth, he hasn't had THAT much more experience than Azula has), how come Azula always owns him...? Experience doesn't really mean anything, it helps, and gives you some sort of an advantage, but Zuko is going to need so much more than a couple years more experience to ever be as good as The Queen of blue fire..."

    Okay first off WHEN has Azula wiped the floor with Zuko apart from first battle on the show! And No as i said before- in the Chase Zuko actually put up a good fight against her and she couldnt knock him out UNTIL he fell through the floor. WOuld Azula have won back then? I believe yes BUUUUT ZUko would have put up a good fight. After that, again as been said before, ZUko has been on an equal par with her in S3 fights. IF there had been a CROD fight ZUko would have put up even more of a fight shown by his new techniques and, though he hadnt tried it yet but if he can do it with ozai it prob worked,redirecting lightning

    The jist of your other posts above was that Experience would count for nothing. Before i get to contridiction, IF Zuko, as you said with not too much more experience (i think more than that due to 3 years in the field) can challenge her so well then a older Zuko with same potential would have been equal again or more likely better! I brought this up to show my experience point i had mentioned NOT a what if. You mention Ozai and Iroh being older versions but then say Ozai has more potential than Iroh, though Iroh great, to prove point that experience doesnt count???? EVEN IF OZai had more potential, NEEEEVVVER said, Iroh has YEARS maybe decades of more experience in the battle field. Like Azula, for all we know Ozai never left the country! The two are more likely equal, LIKE ZUK/AZUL, because Ozai is younger but Iroh has experience PLUS healthier source of power.

    NOW contridiction-

    Whoa, stop there, EVERYONE knows Ozai and Iroh are the top two Firebenders, I never said she was as powerful as them (Although the fact that they are both DECADES older than her and the fact that she can rival them at age fourteen, deserves merit). When did I say Azula was the most powerful Firebender? All I have said, is that she is more powerful than Zuko, I am perfectly aware that she probably won't reach Ozai or Iroh's levels until she is a young woman (Around the age of twenty)... That is why I have said she is in the top three for best Firebenders (Ozai is first (or he was first), Iroh is second, and Azula is third...), she is a young girl, I know she isn't in either of those two people's leagues... She is the THIRD best Firebender in the world... When did I even say she DID know everything?

    SOooo your giving merit that to Azula for "maaaybeeeee" rivaling Ozai and Iroh because they have more Experience?!?! But i thought that didnt count? sooo whereas before you said she didnt need potential to help her, here she definitely does (because Ozai and Iroh as you said are top two FB)? But they're older version of Zuk/Azul right? So how can she wipe floor with Zuko without her potential then, ignoring fact that she never did in S3 (or in Chase).

    I never said that you said she was as powerful as Ozai and Iroh or most powerful. But guess what! I believe that with what we have been shown she IS potentially the most powerful!!!! yep, even during comet neither Ozai, ZUko, or Iroh produce blue fire. As fact she can do this at age 14 is incredible impresive and id like to say your 2nd comment has merit in that it should count against Ozai and Iroh, buuut as potential. As such, with Zuko's level of potential and his experience i believer he is atleast her equal.

    The reason OZai and Iroh would beat her imo is because of their experience. Both have less potential than her, but have years to master their abilities.

    "Azula draws her power from a bad place, but I don't think it's unhealthy... Only three people draw their power from the original source, so if the way she Firebends is unhealthy, then I guess the majority of the Fire Nation citizens are unhealthy... She was still smarter than him, when she was insane AND when she was drawing her power from a less powerful source... There are no what if's?... If there were, I could say, what if, Azula knew the way of The Dragons aswell? And then I could make my arguments a lot easier, because everyone knows Zuko would die..."

    ALso again i bring up sources of power again. Iroh and Zuko is from within the light side (obi wan and luke), whilst ozai and azula is in dark (Sideous and Vadar). BUT that doesnt mean Ozai and Azula get their power from same place. I put the comparisons in the brackets in that order comparing them to the people. Heres the thing, Azula is Vadar before the accident because her power is from greed, fear and LOVE. She loves her father and craves (needs) for his attention, and without it she goes unblanced. Like Jeong Jeong said "firebenders live on razors edge between control and madness". He fear consumes her and becomes paranoia. The reason also why she doesnt finish ppl off is because of her greed; she has to savour the moment. What makes her different from Ozai is that Ozai greed outways his love. However, i do bring up point that she wasnt "insane"- insane is where u have little control on yourself, your completely unrelient and deluded. Azula was not "insane", unstable yes, but not insane. She was able to fight ZUko incredibly well (though ZUko was winning), plan an attack around his defences and create and aim lightning. If Zuko wasnt able to do that as a sane person with innerconflict, how would an insane Azula do it?

    Why arent others so unhealthy- well first there's Zhao and also have person who killed Katara mum (i thought they would go with the redeemed thing). But as i said above- Jeong Jeong said FB are all on razor's edge. ALso i think its the varying sources again and how powerful the bender it- the more fuel the wilder the fire could be, more fire and the more control you need

    It sholud also be noted that ZUko endured WORSE that Azula! To him he lost his home, heritage, honor, love of his father (thou he had little) and was even scarred by him and banished, but before which he endured throughout he's life as a disappointment to his father! and thats before he was branded a traitor. He, as i said previously, was close to where Azula was but he had better control on himself and focus on the Avatar. As such, when he accepted that he didnt need his fathers love and approval, that he can earn his own honour he didnt need to capture the Avatar any more and lost his firebending. His focus, like Ozai's on power, kept him from madness, but without needin it he couldnt bend anymore. What the good source brought to him was the ability to produce fire not from control of his anger and rage, but instead from happyness and life. The result is that Zuko of BR and onwards had better control of his abilities and was calmer, more focused. This is why i believe that he was "better" than Azuala (though equal firebenders in technique and power ratio), because with his experience, new power source and own potential he was a better, calmer fighter and person. Its reason i was annoyed that we never got a clear fight with them- BR and SR had environmently issues and interverence, and when they had a clear fight we had Azula unstable (with some thinking insane) and again interverence (Katara).

    Righto back to work

    For some strange reason "****" or words with that in them are BAND!!! haha omg!


    LOL, I'm not trying to excuse myself, but there are so many reasons as to why Azula beats Zuko, that I'm bound to contradict myself...
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [129]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/10/08
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    Just reread earlier posts and realised again points that got deleted. This Crazy Guy you do realise you contridicted yourself before

    This CrazyGuy-

    "....BUT, Azula doesn't ACTUALLY need potential when it comes to wiping the floor with Zuko... They are the young version of Ozai and Iroh... Ozai was visibly better than Iroh, but Iroh is STILL great... That's the same with Azula and Zuko..."

    "And I don't think you should be bringing "What if's?" into this either... They are who they are, and Azula is the more talented bender... And even if Zuko was older than Azula... age doesn't mean squat when you are a Firebending prodigy, master and legend all in one... Age doesn't mean anything in bending .... prodigy vs someone ten years older than them wouldn't really mean much..."

    "If Zuko has had the extra years of experience, (for what it's worth, he hasn't had THAT much more experience than Azula has), how come Azula always owns him...? Experience doesn't really mean anything, it helps, and gives you some sort of an advantage, but Zuko is going to need so much more than a couple years more experience to ever be as good as The Queen of blue fire..."

    Okay first off WHEN has Azula wiped the floor with Zuko apart from first battle on the show! And No as i said before- in the Chase Zuko actually put up a good fight against her and she couldnt knock him out UNTIL he fell through the floor. WOuld Azula have won back then? I believe yes BUUUUT ZUko would have put up a good fight. After that, again as been said before, ZUko has been on an equal par with her in S3 fights. IF there had been a CROD fight ZUko would have put up even more of a fight shown by his new techniques and, though he hadnt tried it yet but if he can do it with ozai it prob worked,redirecting lightning

    The jist of your other posts above was that Experience would count for nothing. Before i get to contridiction, IF Zuko, as you said with not too much more experience (i think more than that due to 3 years in the field) can challenge her so well then a older Zuko with same potential would have been equal again or more likely better! I brought this up to show my experience point i had mentioned NOT a what if. You mention Ozai and Iroh being older versions but then say Ozai has more potential than Iroh, though Iroh great, to prove point that experience doesnt count???? EVEN IF OZai had more potential, NEEEEVVVER said, Iroh has YEARS maybe decades of more experience in the battle field. Like Azula, for all we know Ozai never left the country! The two are more likely equal, LIKE ZUK/AZUL, because Ozai is younger but Iroh has experience PLUS healthier source of power.

    NOW contridiction-

    Whoa, stop there, EVERYONE knows Ozai and Iroh are the top two Firebenders, I never said she was as powerful as them (Although the fact that they are both DECADES older than her and the fact that she can rival them at age fourteen, deserves merit). When did I say Azula was the most powerful Firebender? All I have said, is that she is more powerful than Zuko, I am perfectly aware that she probably won't reach Ozai or Iroh's levels until she is a young woman (Around the age of twenty)... That is why I have said she is in the top three for best Firebenders (Ozai is first (or he was first), Iroh is second, and Azula is third...), she is a young girl, I know she isn't in either of those two people's leagues... She is the THIRD best Firebender in the world... When did I even say she DID know everything?

    SOooo your giving merit that to Azula for "maaaybeeeee" rivaling Ozai and Iroh because they have more Experience?!?! But i thought that didnt count? sooo whereas before you said she didnt need potential to help her, here she definitely does (because Ozai and Iroh as you said are top two FB)? But they're older version of Zuk/Azul right? So how can she wipe floor with Zuko without her potential then, ignoring fact that she never did in S3 (or in Chase).

    I never said that you said she was as powerful as Ozai and Iroh or most powerful. But guess what! I believe that with what we have been shown she IS potentially the most powerful!!!! yep, even during comet neither Ozai, ZUko, or Iroh produce blue fire. As fact she can do this at age 14 is incredible impresive and id like to say your 2nd comment has merit in that it should count against Ozai and Iroh, buuut as potential. As such, with Zuko's level of potential and his experience i believer he is atleast her equal.

    The reason OZai and Iroh would beat her imo is because of their experience. Both have less potential than her, but have years to master their abilities.

    "Azula draws her power from a bad place, but I don't think it's unhealthy... Only three people draw their power from the original source, so if the way she Firebends is unhealthy, then I guess the majority of the Fire Nation citizens are unhealthy... She was still smarter than him, when she was insane AND when she was drawing her power from a less powerful source... There are no what if's?... If there were, I could say, what if, Azula knew the way of The Dragons aswell? And then I could make my arguments a lot easier, because everyone knows Zuko would die..."

    ALso again i bring up sources of power again. Iroh and Zuko is from within the light side (obi wan and luke), whilst ozai and azula is in dark (Sideous and Vadar). BUT that doesnt mean Ozai and Azula get their power from same place. I put the comparisons in the brackets in that order comparing them to the people. Heres the thing, Azula is Vadar before the accident because her power is from greed, fear and LOVE. She loves her father and craves (needs) for his attention, and without it she goes unblanced. Like Jeong Jeong said "firebenders live on razors edge between control and madness". He fear consumes her and becomes paranoia. The reason also why she doesnt finish ppl off is because of her greed; she has to savour the moment. What makes her different from Ozai is that Ozai greed outways his love. However, i do bring up point that she wasnt "insane"- insane is where u have little control on yourself, your completely unrelient and deluded. Azula was not "insane", unstable yes, but not insane. She was able to fight ZUko incredibly well (though ZUko was winning), plan an attack around his defences and create and aim lightning. If Zuko wasnt able to do that as a sane person with innerconflict, how would an insane Azula do it?

    Why arent others so unhealthy- well first there's Zhao and also have person who killed Katara mum (i thought they would go with the redeemed thing). But as i said above- Jeong Jeong said FB are all on razor's edge. ALso i think its the varying sources again and how powerful the bender it- the more fuel the wilder the fire could be, more fire and the more control you need

    It sholud also be noted that ZUko endured WORSE that Azula! To him he lost his home, heritage, honor, love of his father (thou he had little) and was even scarred by him and banished, but before which he endured throughout he's life as a disappointment to his father! and thats before he was branded a traitor. He, as i said previously, was close to where Azula was but he had better control on himself and focus on the Avatar. As such, when he accepted that he didnt need his fathers love and approval, that he can earn his own honour he didnt need to capture the Avatar any more and lost his firebending. His focus, like Ozai's on power, kept him from madness, but without needin it he couldnt bend anymore. What the good source brought to him was the ability to produce fire not from control of his anger and rage, but instead from happyness and life. The result is that Zuko of BR and onwards had better control of his abilities and was calmer, more focused. This is why i believe that he was "better" than Azuala (though equal firebenders in technique and power ratio), because with his experience, new power source and own potential he was a better, calmer fighter and person. Its reason i was annoyed that we never got a clear fight with them- BR and SR had environmently issues and interverence, and when they had a clear fight we had Azula unstable (with some thinking insane) and again interverence (Katara).

    Righto back to work

    For some strange reason "****" or words with that in them are BAND!!! haha omg!


    LOL, I'm not trying to excuse myself, but there are so many reasons as to why Azula beats Zuko, that I'm bound to contradict myself...
    I never said that ALL experience didn't count either... For example, I think Azula could beat Jeong Jeong,
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [130]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/10/08
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    Just reread earlier posts and realised again points that got deleted. This Crazy Guy you do realise you contridicted yourself before

    This CrazyGuy-

    "....BUT, Azula doesn't ACTUALLY need potential when it comes to wiping the floor with Zuko... They are the young version of Ozai and Iroh... Ozai was visibly better than Iroh, but Iroh is STILL great... That's the same with Azula and Zuko..."

    "And I don't think you should be bringing "What if's?" into this either... They are who they are, and Azula is the more talented bender... And even if Zuko was older than Azula... age doesn't mean squat when you are a Firebending prodigy, master and legend all in one... Age doesn't mean anything in bending .... prodigy vs someone ten years older than them wouldn't really mean much..."

    "If Zuko has had the extra years of experience, (for what it's worth, he hasn't had THAT much more experience than Azula has), how come Azula always owns him...? Experience doesn't really mean anything, it helps, and gives you some sort of an advantage, but Zuko is going to need so much more than a couple years more experience to ever be as good as The Queen of blue fire..."

    Okay first off WHEN has Azula wiped the floor with Zuko apart from first battle on the show! And No as i said before- in the Chase Zuko actually put up a good fight against her and she couldnt knock him out UNTIL he fell through the floor. WOuld Azula have won back then? I believe yes BUUUUT ZUko would have put up a good fight. After that, again as been said before, ZUko has been on an equal par with her in S3 fights. IF there had been a CROD fight ZUko would have put up even more of a fight shown by his new techniques and, though he hadnt tried it yet but if he can do it with ozai it prob worked,redirecting lightning

    The jist of your other posts above was that Experience would count for nothing. Before i get to contridiction, IF Zuko, as you said with not too much more experience (i think more than that due to 3 years in the field) can challenge her so well then a older Zuko with same potential would have been equal again or more likely better! I brought this up to show my experience point i had mentioned NOT a what if. You mention Ozai and Iroh being older versions but then say Ozai has more potential than Iroh, though Iroh great, to prove point that experience doesnt count???? EVEN IF OZai had more potential, NEEEEVVVER said, Iroh has YEARS maybe decades of more experience in the battle field. Like Azula, for all we know Ozai never left the country! The two are more likely equal, LIKE ZUK/AZUL, because Ozai is younger but Iroh has experience PLUS healthier source of power.

    NOW contridiction-

    Whoa, stop there, EVERYONE knows Ozai and Iroh are the top two Firebenders, I never said she was as powerful as them (Although the fact that they are both DECADES older than her and the fact that she can rival them at age fourteen, deserves merit). When did I say Azula was the most powerful Firebender? All I have said, is that she is more powerful than Zuko, I am perfectly aware that she probably won't reach Ozai or Iroh's levels until she is a young woman (Around the age of twenty)... That is why I have said she is in the top three for best Firebenders (Ozai is first (or he was first), Iroh is second, and Azula is third...), she is a young girl, I know she isn't in either of those two people's leagues... She is the THIRD best Firebender in the world... When did I even say she DID know everything?

    SOooo your giving merit that to Azula for "maaaybeeeee" rivaling Ozai and Iroh because they have more Experience?!?! But i thought that didnt count? sooo whereas before you said she didnt need potential to help her, here she definitely does (because Ozai and Iroh as you said are top two FB)? But they're older version of Zuk/Azul right? So how can she wipe floor with Zuko without her potential then, ignoring fact that she never did in S3 (or in Chase).

    I never said that you said she was as powerful as Ozai and Iroh or most powerful. But guess what! I believe that with what we have been shown she IS potentially the most powerful!!!! yep, even during comet neither Ozai, ZUko, or Iroh produce blue fire. As fact she can do this at age 14 is incredible impresive and id like to say your 2nd comment has merit in that it should count against Ozai and Iroh, buuut as potential. As such, with Zuko's level of potential and his experience i believer he is atleast her equal.

    The reason OZai and Iroh would beat her imo is because of their experience. Both have less potential than her, but have years to master their abilities.

    "Azula draws her power from a bad place, but I don't think it's unhealthy... Only three people draw their power from the original source, so if the way she Firebends is unhealthy, then I guess the majority of the Fire Nation citizens are unhealthy... She was still smarter than him, when she was insane AND when she was drawing her power from a less powerful source... There are no what if's?... If there were, I could say, what if, Azula knew the way of The Dragons aswell? And then I could make my arguments a lot easier, because everyone knows Zuko would die..."

    ALso again i bring up sources of power again. Iroh and Zuko is from within the light side (obi wan and luke), whilst ozai and azula is in dark (Sideous and Vadar). BUT that doesnt mean Ozai and Azula get their power from same place. I put the comparisons in the brackets in that order comparing them to the people. Heres the thing, Azula is Vadar before the accident because her power is from greed, fear and LOVE. She loves her father and craves (needs) for his attention, and without it she goes unblanced. Like Jeong Jeong said "firebenders live on razors edge between control and madness". He fear consumes her and becomes paranoia. The reason also why she doesnt finish ppl off is because of her greed; she has to savour the moment. What makes her different from Ozai is that Ozai greed outways his love. However, i do bring up point that she wasnt "insane"- insane is where u have little control on yourself, your completely unrelient and deluded. Azula was not "insane", unstable yes, but not insane. She was able to fight ZUko incredibly well (though ZUko was winning), plan an attack around his defences and create and aim lightning. If Zuko wasnt able to do that as a sane person with innerconflict, how would an insane Azula do it?

    Why arent others so unhealthy- well first there's Zhao and also have person who killed Katara mum (i thought they would go with the redeemed thing). But as i said above- Jeong Jeong said FB are all on razor's edge. ALso i think its the varying sources again and how powerful the bender it- the more fuel the wilder the fire could be, more fire and the more control you need

    It sholud also be noted that ZUko endured WORSE that Azula! To him he lost his home, heritage, honor, love of his father (thou he had little) and was even scarred by him and banished, but before which he endured throughout he's life as a disappointment to his father! and thats before he was branded a traitor. He, as i said previously, was close to where Azula was but he had better control on himself and focus on the Avatar. As such, when he accepted that he didnt need his fathers love and approval, that he can earn his own honour he didnt need to capture the Avatar any more and lost his firebending. His focus, like Ozai's on power, kept him from madness, but without needin it he couldnt bend anymore. What the good source brought to him was the ability to produce fire not from control of his anger and rage, but instead from happyness and life. The result is that Zuko of BR and onwards had better control of his abilities and was calmer, more focused. This is why i believe that he was "better" than Azuala (though equal firebenders in technique and power ratio), because with his experience, new power source and own potential he was a better, calmer fighter and person. Its reason i was annoyed that we never got a clear fight with them- BR and SR had environmently issues and interverence, and when they had a clear fight we had Azula unstable (with some thinking insane) and again interverence (Katara).

    Righto back to work

    For some strange reason "****" or words with that in them are BAND!!! haha omg!


    LOL, I'm not trying to excuse myself, but there are so many reasons as to why Azula beats Zuko, that I'm bound to contradict myself...
    I never said that ALL experience didn't count either... For example, I think Azula could beat Jeong Jeong,
    And HE has more experience than Azula... It's a case of who it is she is fighting...
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [131]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/10/08
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    Sektos, I'm REALLY sorry, but I didn't actually read your whole post... I will soon, I'm just HORRIBLY tired...
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [132]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
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    0.o





    AZULA PWNS ZUKO! *runs away*
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [133]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/10/08
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    • posts: 700
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    0.o




    AZULA PWNS ZUKO! *runs away*
    LMAO!
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [134]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
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    gilvatar wrote:
    Hey, i think we all foun someething we can al agree on. It would be cool to see Zuko & Azula team up to pwn the crap out of whoever made this format.


    QFT!!!!!!! / THIS/
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [135]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    Axrendale wrote:
    gilvatar wrote:
    Hey, i think we all foun someething we can al agree on. It would be cool to see Zuko & Azula team up to pwn the crap out of whoever made this format.


    QFT!!!!!!! / THIS/
    huh?
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [136]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
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    Axrendale wrote:
    gilvatar wrote:
    Hey, i think we all foun someething we can al agree on. It would be cool to see Zuko & Azula team up to pwn the crap out of whoever made this format.


    QFT!!!!!!! / THIS/

    WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU ON THE REFUGE?! Maddokos misses you. Get on the Chat Room 2.0 thread ASAP or else bad things will happen to you.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [137]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
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    I haven't been on the Refuge yet because I've made a new account - one that is also called Axrendale, to avoid confusion. I'm waiting for it to be confirmed.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [138]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
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    Axrendale wrote:
    I haven't been on the Refuge yet because I've made a new account - one that is also called Axrendale, to avoid confusion. I'm waiting for it to be confirmed.

    Oh, okay You're forgiven.
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [139]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    Ax, what does QTF mean?
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [140]Sep 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
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    gilvatar wrote:
    Ax, what does QTF mean?

    Quoted for truth. As in you agree with the statement you quoted.
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