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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Zuko: Firebending Master?

  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [181]Sep 21, 2008
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    PsychoPass wrote:

    Well, you have to realize that Azula was always intended to be an obstacle for Zuko. Something for him to gather the strength to overcome. I can say without a shadow of doubt in my head that Zuko is supposed to be better and more powerful than Zuko wether or not she is insane. Even if we weren't shown, the fact that he is the Fire Lord alone symbolizes that he was come out on top over her and I do feel that includes Firebending skills. Remember the running theme in the show that power and perfection are overrated and that hard work and discipline is the correct path? Well, who symbolized the former all throughout season 2? Exactly. Who symbolized the latter all throughout season 1 and 2? Bingo. Despite Azula's prodigious skills I strongly believe Zuko was intended to eventually overcome her due to that running theme. The Boiling Rock, The Southern Raiders fight, and the finale duel aside, the mere fact that he is the all-powerful Fire Lord symbolizes that he was risen above her due to his hard work, perseverance, but also the theme of his story.

    If you have AIM I would love to talk about this some more. I'm staring at you, Ax. ;p

    It is probably true that she was meant to be an obstacle for Zuko, but she became possibly one of the three best characters in the whole show... They created someone so powerful (That Zuko was meant to (realistically) beat in the end), that in order for Zuko to beat her (I'm assuming as planned), they had to make her end up having brain problems to make it a fair fight... Azula is a master-piece of a creation, and whether sane or not, has proved to be a very smart girl, as a character, and as a strategist... Zuko doesn't really deserve to be better than her (Though he possibly deserves to be a powerful master)...
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  • Avatar of TitanPredator

    TitanPredator

    [182]Sep 22, 2008
    • member since: 07/30/08
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Random question: Who would win? Zuko or Jeong Jeong?!

    Jeong Jeong all the way. Zuko is just to arrogant and stupid (I'm sorry, but just look at his finale battle with Azula) to defeat a great master. Jeong Jeong wouldn't waste his time taunting someone. Personaly in my opinion Jeong Jeong is better than both Zuko and Azula. I think we are min interpretating the power of the kids in the series. They are very strong, but there is something about the way the Old Master are presented that makes me believe the are stronger. When Bumi told he took back his whole city by himself, not even Toph showed her arrogance (yes I think she is quite arrogant). So in my opinion Old Masters are stronger than the kids in the show. I'm not going to make the karate argument again, because that just is to long. (btw shouldn't this be in the "moster powerfull benders")

    "The Most Powerful Benders thread" should die... Me and you both know that we've discussed everything about benders that should be and can be discussed... And I would honestly have to dis-agree with the Toph-arrogant claim... She's slighty cocky, but she's down to Earth and sweet, and she has absolutely nothing to prove to Bumi... The old masters, are not as good as most of the kids... The kids have had the pressure of having to save the whole world, and grow up rather quickly, for about a year now... Katara is probably better than Pakku, Toph is likely better than Bumi, Azula is better than Jeong Jeong (popular opinion)... The new/young generation of benders, are more capable, physically agile, skilled, and all out better, than the old generation... You don't ALWAYS have to be a clever old man to be a master at something in your life, the kids have proved that with hard work and intense amounts of growing up. I guess my gymnastics example in un-needed then...

    You are the one who started Zuko vs Jeong Jeong But it should die indeed. It's already dead I think. But I will always disagree on that one. I think Pakku is better than Katara, Bumi is stronger than Toph and Jeong Jeong beats Azula. Just my opinion. Is my karate example still needed to convince or isn't that going to work either. The young ones have more potential, but at the moment the old masters are still better. Just the way they are presented in the finale, just releaxed taking Ba Sing Se back. Well enough for this now. We won't agree anyway.

    Back on topic.

    Zuko is a master now, I think, but he has still a lot to learn. He knows original source, and he can learn from Iroh and train with the Avatar, so I think he is going to be a strong master in the future. He may not surpass Iroh, Ozai, Jeong Jeong or sane Azula, but still be a strong master.

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  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [183]Sep 22, 2008
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    wow TitanPredator you raised some interesting questions

    BUt i have to agree mostly with ThisCrazyGUy. The fact that the Gaang and Azula are this powerful and capable at such a young age shows that if that arent already more powerful than those they are compared with, they definitely will be.

    May Take on the matchs are

    Azula, if sane, will definitely surpass Ozai and Iroh. Zuko imo will also surpass Iroh and Ozai in time. I think one of the main reasons that these two are so powerful is because they are descended from the previous Avatar and FireLords. Zuko has learnt from, and probably continue to learn from, the exprience and knowledge of Iroh, and at such a young age, will most likely learn more than Iroh did when he continues on from him. I however do find it hard to think of whether either of them will beat their elders if they were to verse them at this time. Both have probable all or most of their skills, but i think O&I's experience will win out

    BUmi and TOph- BUMI!!! Toph is amazing, but SO is BUmi. This is a guy who at 112 is still incredibly powerful. He not only can bend with simply his chin (lol) but also without touching the ground- TOph is stuffed. If Toph was to gain sight she would become in time definitely his equal or supior. HOWEVER, due to the nature of her weakness she cannot beat Bumi. Nation sees with the ground, but im fairly certain that from the insight BUmi had when telling Aang who to find that he can too. Bumi is also incredible smart and very exprienced, with knowledge of different forms of strategy(forgotten name). He simply needs to levitate rocks and Toph is in trouble- she cannot see any air-bourne object as shown time and again when she is supprised by one- ussually from Sokka. I think she will still be equal or superior (she is only one known to MB) but i doubt she could beat BUmi without becoming far more strategic- something she definitely isnt right now (as she taught Aang- go head-on)

    Katara pwns Pakku no challenge (to be fair we havent seen much of him). Even before Katara was properly trained she put a hell of a fight against him, and no with being able to remove water from air and plants, and controlling ppl's body without need of moon (mistake my opinion), Pakku cannot match her

    As for Jeong Jeong. hmmmmm well, Azula is far more powerful than him potentially and from what we have seen he cannot do lightning. I do think Azula, if sane, could beat him. And i also think ZUko can too, having shown that he is very powerful and skilled (if he can so easily dispel Azula's attacks in BR, i dont doubt he could do it more so against JJ), plus unlike Jeong Jeong his power comes from original, good source.

    Edited on 09/22/2008 3:04am
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [184]Sep 22, 2008
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    TitanPredator wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Random question: Who would win? Zuko or Jeong Jeong?!

    Jeong Jeong all the way. Zuko is just to arrogant and stupid (I'm sorry, but just look at his finale battle with Azula) to defeat a great master. Jeong Jeong wouldn't waste his time taunting someone. Personaly in my opinion Jeong Jeong is better than both Zuko and Azula. I think we are min interpretating the power of the kids in the series. They are very strong, but there is something about the way the Old Master are presented that makes me believe the are stronger. When Bumi told he took back his whole city by himself, not even Toph showed her arrogance (yes I think she is quite arrogant). So in my opinion Old Masters are stronger than the kids in the show. I'm not going to make the karate argument again, because that just is to long. (btw shouldn't this be in the "moster powerfull benders")

    "The Most Powerful Benders thread" should die... Me and you both know that we've discussed everything about benders that should be and can be discussed... And I would honestly have to dis-agree with the Toph-arrogant claim... She's slighty cocky, but she's down to Earth and sweet, and she has absolutely nothing to prove to Bumi... The old masters, are not as good as most of the kids... The kids have had the pressure of having to save the whole world, and grow up rather quickly, for about a year now... Katara is probably better than Pakku, Toph is likely better than Bumi, Azula is better than Jeong Jeong (popular opinion)... The new/young generation of benders, are more capable, physically agile, skilled, and all out better, than the old generation... You don't ALWAYS have to be a clever old man to be a master at something in your life, the kids have proved that with hard work and intense amounts of growing up. I guess my gymnastics example in un-needed then...

    You are the one who started Zuko vs Jeong Jeong But it should die indeed. It's already dead I think. But I will always disagree on that one. I think Pakku is better than Katara, Bumi is stronger than Toph and Jeong Jeong beats Azula. Just my opinion. Is my karate example still needed to convince or isn't that going to work either. The young ones have more potential, but at the moment the old masters are still better. Just the way they are presented in the finale, just releaxed taking Ba Sing Se back. Well enough for this now. We won't agree anyway.

    Back on topic.

    Zuko is a master now, I think, but he has still a lot to learn. He knows original source, and he can learn from Iroh and train with the Avatar, so I think he is going to be a strong master in the future. He may not surpass Iroh, Ozai, Jeong Jeong or sane Azula, but still be a strong master.

    Yes, I did start the debate, because I wanted another debate, we are all having fun, and that is what matters. Your karate example is good, but it can't combat everything... I have my gymnastics example, which I have also used before, but it's a pointless thing to use, as it doesn't really answer all the big questions... The young ones are very likely to be better... The old masters were relaxed because they have experience doing that, the fact that the young ones can do everything they can do, deserves merit... And the young ones had such bigger tasks than the old ones did... Katara and Zuko had to stop AZULA, Aang was facing Firelord OZAI, and Toph, Sokka and Suki were stopping air ships from burning down the whole of the Earth Kingdom...
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [185]Sep 22, 2008
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    I'm going to simply copy and paste what I said about Toph and Bumi in "The Most Powerful Benders" thread... My opinion hasn't changed and I worked incredibly hard on it...
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [186]Sep 22, 2008
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    Infact, I'm going to come up with something new and short...
    Edited on 09/22/2008 10:12am
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [187]Sep 22, 2008
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    Bumi is amazing, but not as amazing as Toph... This is the girl who is TWELVE years old, and is ALREADY, the creator of Metalbending (The most advanced form of Earthbending we will EVER lay our eyes on), and barer of the most impressive accomplishments, of basically ANY bender in the whole series... Bending with your chin is a plus, it really is, but lets be realistic, this is Toph we are talking about, he can throw all the little rocks (with his chin) he wants at her, he's going to need so much more than that against this girl... Her "vision" isn't the only thing that she is equipped with either... In "The Blind Bandit" she showed that she has rather amazing hearing, when she could sense that guy in the air (The guy swinging from the vine), and she wasn't even as powerful then... If she can sense him, she can quite obviously sense rocks... She isn't stuffed at all, she's the victor, and most people would agree that she's the clear victor. Her blindness is the reason she is so powerful, it can be a weakness, but in this particular case, it is her strongest, most valuable weapon, and it's what would make her prevail... Toph has proved, that experience doesn't usually work against her, and that even though she's a young girl, she is the best Earthbender in the world, she said it herself... If Bumi Earthbending with his face is the thing that you think would make him beat Toph, then, well, (Even though he's my second favourite old master) he's stuffed...
    Edited on 09/22/2008 10:11am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    TitanPredator

    [188]Sep 22, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Bumi is amazing, but not as amazing as Toph... This is the girl who is TWELVE years old, and is ALREADY, the creator of Metalbending (The most advanced form of Earthbending we will EVER lay our eyes on), and barer of the most impressive accomplishments, of basically ANY bender in the whole series... Bending with your chin is a plus, it really is, but lets be realistic, this is Toph we are talking about, he can throw all the little rocks (with his chin) he wants at her, he's going to need so much more than that against this girl... Her "vision" isn't the only thing that she is equipped with either... In "The Blind Bandit" she showed that she has rather amazing hearing, when she could sense that guy in the air (The guy swinging from the vine), and she wasn't even as powerful then... If she can sense him, she can quite obviously sense rocks... She isn't stuffed at all, she's the victor, and most people would agree that she's the clear victor. Her blindness is the reason she is so powerful, it can be a weakness, but in this particular case, it is her strongest, most valuable weapon, and it's what would make her prevail... Toph has proved, that experience doesn't usually work against her, and that even though she's a young girl, she is the best Earthbender in the world, she said it herself... If Bumi Earthbending with his face is the thing that you think would make him beat Toph, then, well, (Even though he's my second favourite old master) he's stuffed...

    Good points, but if youre going to take things in argument what the persons in the show say, Bumi also claimed that he was the best Earthbender. And it's not only the face bending, but also the beniding of and entire city all by himself. He bended houses miles away from him like they where nothing. And just the way they are presented. The kids have some much respect for them. And there is something I can't realy discribe, but yeah..... a feeling that every time I see them makes me believe they are stronger.

    And Katara once said to Jeong Jeong: "You're a great master, you have powers I'll never know". So that places Jeong Jeong over Katara now easy and over Katara in the future. Katara managed to defeat insane Azula so this also places him above INSANE Azula and Zuko. Maybe to a draw at least and probably above SANE Azula. You probably won't agree with this, but if we are going to believe Toph, we should also believe Katara and Bumi.

    ThisCrazyGuy, I hope you aren't going to hate me now I realy respect your opinion and great arguments, although I don't often agree with them in case of who is the strongest bender.

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    TitanPredator

    [189]Sep 22, 2008
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    Sektos wrote:

    wow TitanPredator you raised some interesting questions

    BUt i have to agree mostly with ThisCrazyGUy. The fact that the Gaang and Azula are this powerful and capable at such a young age shows that if that arent already more powerful than those they are compared with, they definitely will be.

    May Take on the matchs are

    Azula, if sane, will definitely surpass Ozai and Iroh. Zuko imo will also surpass Iroh and Ozai in time. I think one of the main reasons that these two are so powerful is because they are descended from the previous Avatar and FireLords. Zuko has learnt from, and probably continue to learn from, the exprience and knowledge of Iroh, and at such a young age, will most likely learn more than Iroh did when he continues on from him. I however do find it hard to think of whether either of them will beat their elders if they were to verse them at this time. Both have probable all or most of their skills, but i think O&I's experience will win out

    BUmi and TOph- BUMI!!! Toph is amazing, but SO is BUmi. This is a guy who at 112 is still incredibly powerful. He not only can bend with simply his chin (lol) but also without touching the ground- TOph is stuffed. If Toph was to gain sight she would become in time definitely his equal or supior. HOWEVER, due to the nature of her weakness she cannot beat Bumi. Nation sees with the ground, but im fairly certain that from the insight BUmi had when telling Aang who to find that he can too. Bumi is also incredible smart and very exprienced, with knowledge of different forms of strategy(forgotten name). He simply needs to levitate rocks and Toph is in trouble- she cannot see any air-bourne object as shown time and again when she is supprised by one- ussually from Sokka. I think she will still be equal or superior (she is only one known to MB) but i doubt she could beat BUmi without becoming far more strategic- something she definitely isnt right now (as she taught Aang- go head-on)

    Katara pwns Pakku no challenge (to be fair we havent seen much of him). Even before Katara was properly trained she put a hell of a fight against him, and no with being able to remove water from air and plants, and controlling ppl's body without need of moon (mistake my opinion), Pakku cannot match her

    As for Jeong Jeong. hmmmmm well, Azula is far more powerful than him potentially and from what we have seen he cannot do lightning. I do think Azula, if sane, could beat him. And i also think ZUko can too, having shown that he is very powerful and skilled (if he can so easily dispel Azula's attacks in BR, i dont doubt he could do it more so against JJ), plus unlike Jeong Jeong his power comes from original, good source.

    Zuko isn't that strong, and he is quite foolish sometimes (his finale fight with Azula). And blocking Azula's attacks isnt THAT impressive. I think JJ could do it to, and he could EASY block Zuko's

    And Katara can't bloodbend without full moon.

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    gilvatar

    [190]Sep 22, 2008
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    guys, can we keep it strictly Zuko & whoever stuff like the title says? If we vernture off into Toph vs. Bumi & stuff it's technically off topic and they're gonna shut us down. I like this thread. It's fun to read and poke my thoughts in w/out being a main fighter (though I will back sektos b/c I think he/she's right.) Point is, i don't wanna see it get shut down.
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    gilvatar

    [191]Sep 22, 2008
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    and Titainpreditor, Katara can't bend w/out a full moon b/c no one can.
    Edited on 09/22/2008 12:39pm
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    Axrendale

    [192]Sep 22, 2008
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    *gasp*

    Can this be? Peace between the ACC and the Pro-Zuko people? I must be dreaming.

    Somebody slap me.

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    isabelwhatx

    [193]Sep 22, 2008
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    Alright, I'm too lazy to read the last few posts, but here's my two cents: Zuko may be a master, but he is not powerful. You can study as much as you want, but that doesn't make you SMART, it just makes you knowledgeable.

    Zuko was born average, but pushed himself so that he could make up for his lack of power in other categories.

    Being a master doesn't necessarily mean you're powerful, it just means you know the technical terms behind firebending.

    That was really, really simplified, but I'm sick and simply don't feel like elaborating unless I have to. If you want me to go into further detail, just ask. I'd be happy to shut you down

    Edited on 09/22/2008 12:45pm
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    TitanPredator

    [194]Sep 22, 2008
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    gilvatar wrote:
    and Titainpreditor, Katara can't bend w/out a full moon b/c no one can.

    Yeah I know. But he was still wrong about the fact.

    Now back OT, I agree with Isabell about what she said. He is a master now but he's not that strong yet.

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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [195]Sep 22, 2008
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    TitanPredator wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Bumi is amazing, but not as amazing as Toph... This is the girl who is TWELVE years old, and is ALREADY, the creator of Metalbending (The most advanced form of Earthbending we will EVER lay our eyes on), and barer of the most impressive accomplishments, of basically ANY bender in the whole series... Bending with your chin is a plus, it really is, but lets be realistic, this is Toph we are talking about, he can throw all the little rocks (with his chin) he wants at her, he's going to need so much more than that against this girl... Her "vision" isn't the only thing that she is equipped with either... In "The Blind Bandit" she showed that she has rather amazing hearing, when she could sense that guy in the air (The guy swinging from the vine), and she wasn't even as powerful then... If she can sense him, she can quite obviously sense rocks... She isn't stuffed at all, she's the victor, and most people would agree that she's the clear victor. Her blindness is the reason she is so powerful, it can be a weakness, but in this particular case, it is her strongest, most valuable weapon, and it's what would make her prevail... Toph has proved, that experience doesn't usually work against her, and that even though she's a young girl, she is the best Earthbender in the world, she said it herself... If Bumi Earthbending with his face is the thing that you think would make him beat Toph, then, well, (Even though he's my second favourite old master) he's stuffed...

    Good points, but if youre going to take things in argument what the persons in the show say, Bumi also claimed that he was the best Earthbender. And it's not only the face bending, but also the beniding of and entire city all by himself. He bended houses miles away from him like they where nothing. And just the way they are presented. The kids have some much respect for them. And there is something I can't realy discribe, but yeah..... a feeling that every time I see them makes me believe they are stronger.

    And Katara once said to Jeong Jeong: "You're a great master, you have powers I'll never know". So that places Jeong Jeong over Katara now easy and over Katara in the future. Katara managed to defeat insane Azula so this also places him above INSANE Azula and Zuko. Maybe to a draw at least and probably above SANE Azula. You probably won't agree with this, but if we are going to believe Toph, we should also believe Katara and Bumi.

    ThisCrazyGuy, I hope you aren't going to hate me now I realy respect your opinion and great arguments, although I don't often agree with them in case of who is the strongest bender.

    Bumi being able to concentrate hard enough with his face to bend small rocks is great, but if you think that that will be enough against TOPH, well, then I'm rather shocked... And yes, Bumi bending the whole city was impressive, I never claimed it not to be, but Toph could more than likely do the same thing, she SEES with Earthbending, and I don't really think bending the whole city can compare to Metalbending... And yes, both Toph and Bumi have claimed to be the greatest Earthbenders in the world... But Toph's claim was way more believable... She had just created Metalbending, she had every right to think that she was the greatest Earthbender in the world... And the kids have so much respect for the old masters because of how long they have been doing what they do, not because they are BETTER... Oh, and Bumi wasn't bending houses MILES away... That's an exageration... I'm not saying his re-shaping of Omashu wasn't impressive, because we all know it was, but Toph has done so much better than that, quite frankly on a regular basis... And if people don't think Toph can beat Bumi (Most people will think she can), at least give her props for being able to PERFECTLY rival the abilities of someone literally one-hundred years older than her... Oh, and I think Katara is better than Jeong Jeong... Do you realise that Katara was virtually terrible at Waterbending then? And that she didn't realise her potential? And that she didn't know what amazing things and confidence she would pick up in the future (Learning every single form of Waterbending possible, becoming the greatest Waterbender on the planet, being one of the only two peple to learn Bloodbending)? Katara didn't even know she would become a true master then, and now she's the greatest Waterbender in the WORLD... She didn't know what she was saying to Jeong Jeong then, she didn't know she would become this powerful... I find it really hard to imagine Katara saying that to Jeong Jeong by the END of the series... And I think Katara meant the fact, that Jeong Jeong can Firebend amazingly, something she will never experience... Katara was in-experienced then, Bumi obviously hadn't heard of Toph, Toph had just created METALBENDING... I think I'll take Toph's word for it ... Oh, and I don't hate you... You seem like a really awesome guy, and your arguments have been the most challenging for me in these forums...
    Edited on 09/22/2008 10:54pm
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [196]Sep 22, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Bumi is amazing, but not as amazing as Toph... This is the girl who is TWELVE years old, and is ALREADY, the creator of Metalbending (The most advanced form of Earthbending we will EVER lay our eyes on), and barer of the most impressive accomplishments, of basically ANY bender in the whole series... Bending with your chin is a plus, it really is, but lets be realistic, this is Toph we are talking about, he can throw all the little rocks (with his chin) he wants at her, he's going to need so much more than that against this girl... Her "vision" isn't the only thing that she is equipped with either... In "The Blind Bandit" she showed that she has rather amazing hearing, when she could sense that guy in the air (The guy swinging from the vine), and she wasn't even as powerful then... If she can sense him, she can quite obviously sense rocks... She isn't stuffed at all, she's the victor, and most people would agree that she's the clear victor. Her blindness is the reason she is so powerful, it can be a weakness, but in this particular case, it is her strongest, most valuable weapon, and it's what would make her prevail... Toph has proved, that experience doesn't usually work against her, and that even though she's a young girl, she is the best Earthbender in the world, she said it herself... If Bumi Earthbending with his face is the thing that you think would make him beat Toph, then, well, (Even though he's my second favourite old master) he's stuffed...

    Good points, but if youre going to take things in argument what the persons in the show say, Bumi also claimed that he was the best Earthbender. And it's not only the face bending, but also the beniding of and entire city all by himself. He bended houses miles away from him like they where nothing. And just the way they are presented. The kids have some much respect for them. And there is something I can't realy discribe, but yeah..... a feeling that every time I see them makes me believe they are stronger.

    And Katara once said to Jeong Jeong: "You're a great master, you have powers I'll never know". So that places Jeong Jeong over Katara now easy and over Katara in the future. Katara managed to defeat insane Azula so this also places him above INSANE Azula and Zuko. Maybe to a draw at least and probably above SANE Azula. You probably won't agree with this, but if we are going to believe Toph, we should also believe Katara and Bumi.

    ThisCrazyGuy, I hope you aren't going to hate me now I realy respect your opinion and great arguments, although I don't often agree with them in case of who is the strongest bender.

    Bumi being able to concentrate hard enough with his face to bend small rocks is great, but if you think that that will be enough against TOPH, well, then I'm rather shocked... And yes, Bumi bending the whole city was impressive, I never claimed it not to be, but Toph could more than likely do the same thing, she SEES with Earthbending, and I don't really think bending the whole city can compare to Metalbending... And yes, both Toph and Bumi have claimed to be the greatest Earthbenders in the world... But Toph's claim was way more believable... She had just created Metalbending, she had every right to think that she was the greatest Earthbender in the world... And the kids have so much respect for the old masters because of how long they have been doing what they do, not because they are BETTER... Oh, and Bumi wasn't bending houses MILES away... That's an exageration... I'm not saying his re-shaping of Omashu wasn't impressive, because we all know it was, but Toph has done so much better than that, quite frankly on a regular basis... And if people don't think Toph can beat Bumi (Most people will think she can), at least give her props for being able to PERFECTLY rival the abilities of someone literally one-hundred years older than her... Oh, and I think Katara is better than Jeong Jeong... Do you realise that Katara was virtually terrible at Waterbending then? And that she didn't realise her potential? And that she didn't know what amazing things and confidence she would pick up in the future (Learning every single form of Waterbending possible, becoming the greatest Waterbender on the planet, being one of the only two peple to learn Bloodbending)? Katara didn't even know she would become a true master then, and now she's the greatest Waterbender in the WORLD... She didn't know what she was saying to Jeong Jeong then, she didn't know she would become this powerful... I find it really hard to imagine Katara saying that to Jeong Jeong by the END of the series... And I think Katara meant the fact, that Jeong Jeong can Firebend amazingly, something she will never experience... Katara was in-experienced then, Bumi obviously hadn't heard of Toph, Toph had just created METALBENDING... I think I'll take Toph's word for it... Oh, and I don't hate you... You seem like a really awesome guy, and your arguments have been the most challenging for me in these forums...
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  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [197]Sep 23, 2008
    • member since: 04/12/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,366
    Agree Bumi TitanPredator

    But Katara- that was before she met pakku and waayyy before she learnt how to bend water form plants and bend people. U cant take a girls niave comment from Season one and use it to claim battles from season 2, by and in which she has learnt a WHOOOLLLLLE lot more and has had far more training, in which she beats others as meaning Jeong Jeong can.
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  • Avatar of TitanPredator

    TitanPredator

    [198]Sep 23, 2008
    • member since: 07/30/08
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 166
    ene
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Bumi is amazing, but not as amazing as Toph... This is the girl who is TWELVE years old, and is ALREADY, the creator of Metalbending (The most advanced form of Earthbending we will EVER lay our eyes on), and barer of the most impressive accomplishments, of basically ANY bender in the whole series... Bending with your chin is a plus, it really is, but lets be realistic, this is Toph we are talking about, he can throw all the little rocks (with his chin) he wants at her, he's going to need so much more than that against this girl... Her "vision" isn't the only thing that she is equipped with either... In "The Blind Bandit" she showed that she has rather amazing hearing, when she could sense that guy in the air (The guy swinging from the vine), and she wasn't even as powerful then... If she can sense him, she can quite obviously sense rocks... She isn't stuffed at all, she's the victor, and most people would agree that she's the clear victor. Her blindness is the reason she is so powerful, it can be a weakness, but in this particular case, it is her strongest, most valuable weapon, and it's what would make her prevail... Toph has proved, that experience doesn't usually work against her, and that even though she's a young girl, she is the best Earthbender in the world, she said it herself... If Bumi Earthbending with his face is the thing that you think would make him beat Toph, then, well, (Even though he's my second favourite old master) he's stuffed...

    Good points, but if youre going to take things in argument what the persons in the show say, Bumi also claimed that he was the best Earthbender. And it's not only the face bending, but also the beniding of and entire city all by himself. He bended houses miles away from him like they where nothing. And just the way they are presented. The kids have some much respect for them. And there is something I can't realy discribe, but yeah..... a feeling that every time I see them makes me believe they are stronger.

    And Katara once said to Jeong Jeong: "You're a great master, you have powers I'll never know". So that places Jeong Jeong over Katara now easy and over Katara in the future. Katara managed to defeat insane Azula so this also places him above INSANE Azula and Zuko. Maybe to a draw at least and probably above SANE Azula. You probably won't agree with this, but if we are going to believe Toph, we should also believe Katara and Bumi.

    ThisCrazyGuy, I hope you aren't going to hate me now I realy respect your opinion and great arguments, although I don't often agree with them in case of who is the strongest bender.

    Bumi being able to concentrate hard enough with his face to bend small rocks is great, but if you think that that will be enough against TOPH, well, then I'm rather shocked... And yes, Bumi bending the whole city was impressive, I never claimed it not to be, but Toph could more than likely do the same thing, she SEES with Earthbending, and I don't really think bending the whole city can compare to Metalbending... And yes, both Toph and Bumi have claimed to be the greatest Earthbenders in the world... But Toph's claim was way more believable... She had just created Metalbending, she had every right to think that she was the greatest Earthbender in the world... And the kids have so much respect for the old masters because of how long they have been doing what they do, not because they are BETTER... Oh, and Bumi wasn't bending houses MILES away... That's an exageration... I'm not saying his re-shaping of Omashu wasn't impressive, because we all know it was, but Toph has done so much better than that, quite frankly on a regular basis... And if people don't think Toph can beat Bumi (Most people will think she can), at least give her props for being able to PERFECTLY rival the abilities of someone literally one-hundred years older than her... Oh, and I think Katara is better than Jeong Jeong... Do you realise that Katara was virtually terrible at Waterbending then? And that she didn't realise her potential? And that she didn't know what amazing things and confidence she would pick up in the future (Learning every single form of Waterbending possible, becoming the greatest Waterbender on the planet, being one of the only two peple to learn Bloodbending)? Katara didn't even know she would become a true master then, and now she's the greatest Waterbender in the WORLD... She didn't know what she was saying to Jeong Jeong then, she didn't know she would become this powerful... I find it really hard to imagine Katara saying that to Jeong Jeong by the END of the series... And I think Katara meant the fact, that Jeong Jeong can Firebend amazingly, something she will never experience... Katara was in-experienced then, Bumi obviously hadn't heard of Toph, Toph had just created METALBENDING... I think I'll take Toph's word for it ... Oh, and I don't hate you... You seem like a really awesome guy, and your arguments have been the most challenging for me in these forums...

    You kinda made me run out of arguments now...

    But it's also something I can't explain, just a feeling when I watch the Old Masters. When I see them I have the feeling they are way stronger than the kids. And I find it hard to believe that a 14 year old girl can be better than a 60 year old master for example. It would be like a 14 year old defeating the greates Karate master or world heavyweight champion fighter alive these days. But I stick to this argument you won't agree: being able to do and advance/diverent technique better than another bender doesn't mean you are better at regular bending.

    But shall we stop this now to, cause we have been debating about this for like months and we don't agree anyway.

    On topic: Will Zuko return to the Sun Warriors to train with them and the dragons to become stronger?

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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [199]Sep 23, 2008
    • member since: 08/10/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 700

    No offense, but you can't keep relying on a karate example... I have Gymnastics and Kick Boxing examples, but they aren't relevant to all the things in our lives, and they can't solve every little bending comparison... Bending isn't the same as karate. And experience can only get you so far... If it had a big role in the way battles are won then why did Katara beat Hama, for example?

    But yeah, we should stop...

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