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Does Harold deserve to be picked on by Duncan and Courtney so much?

Does Harold deserve to be picked on so much?

  • Avatar of stalemate666

    stalemate666

    [581]Oct 27, 2009
    • member since: 10/19/08
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    imverybasic wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    So Courtney whines. Big deal. Lindsay whines about no one listening to her, Harold whines that Duncan picks on him. Sick of it? Fine, but that doesn't make her evil.

    And, yet again, I must repeat myself. The only justification I ever made for Courtney, ever, is that she is playing the game. You manipulate people, you trick them, you do what it takes to get them kicked off and you stay on. This is in contrast to Beth, who stole Courtney's PDA for her personal use. No strategy involved. I've never said Courtney was virtuous or a protagonist or anything like that. That's why I'm not arguing: I agree Courtney's ruthless. However, as I've stated, ruthless is not evil.

    And yet, Courtney too, tells the truth about Lindsay, who stinks as well, that she doesn't like her, or that Owen cost the team. Why then, is Lindsay virtuous and Courtney evil? Courtney, at least, talked about people after she met them. Further, Courtney insulted Lindsay for something that was, again, the truth: Wonder Woman already existed.

    You're always telling us to stop whining, or penalize Harold for supposedly whining. Courtney's whining doesn't make her evil. It's the way she treats people that makes her evil. Furthermore, everybody has valid reasons for their whining. Harold for being picked on; Lindsay for being mistreated... What does Courtney whine about? Not getting a prize. Big deal. So she doesn't get a prize. How does this make her more entitled than anybody else?

    Listen, you don't need to constantly repeat yourself. I completely understand the point that you're trying to make. I just disagree. You can't refute me because of that. Okay, fine. Manipulating, strategizing, trickery... yes, Courtney's playing the game, but this is what makes her the antagonist and henceforth, evil. Mainly because Heather said the exact same thing as last season's antagonist. She basically strategized, manipulated, whatever. She said she was playing the game. Yes, she got pleasure out of humiliating and mistreating others, but this is exactly how Courtney's acting now. The only difference between the two is that while she tried to humiliate others, Heather's prime goal was to scope out the weaknesses in them. Courtney is mean for the sake of being mean.

    Beth took Courtney's PDA, fine. I already recongnized that that was wrong and it since Million Dollar Babies, the action hasn't been repeated. There's nothing more to say.

    Yes, I know that Courtney tells the truth about Lindsay. While I already pointed this out from/in my last post, I have yet to repeat this again. Courtney and Lindsay both stunk. Lindsay said that she stinks, Courtney could have easily said that Lindsay stinks, as well. But what does she do? She continuously brings up her odor and heckels her mid challenge. "Ha! Not such a wonder woman after all, huh?" Does Lindsay do this to Courtney? No, she doesn't. And even after she told Lindsay, she told her that she stinks like feet, Courtney has the nerve to bring it up again after the challenge. This of course, provokes Leshawna to stick up for her. And yes, I also don't deny Courtney telling Lindsay the truth. She was right about the Wonder Woman costume, but the additional commentary was completely unneccessary. In addition, if Courtney's going to dish it out, she has to learn how to take it. If she has the luxury to insult other people, she can't get defensive when someone insults her. It's hypocrisy. I'll agree that it wasn't neccessary for Lindsay to tell Courtney that she stinks but again, she didn't deliberately tick Courtney off, Courtney did that to herself.

    People insult Courtney. Well why do you think? Based on the way she acted from TDI, most of the contesatnts have lost respect for her. Not only that, news travels fast. So say that someone gets eliminated, events happen and that/the eliminated contestant finds out about it within the next week or so.


    Gotta go with BrainMan820 on this, Courtney is just brutally honestly and critical and she does whine a lot but she usually has a valid point (the train one she was just being a brat, but I found it cute)
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  • Avatar of Brodoin15

    Brodoin15

    [583]Oct 28, 2009
    • member since: 05/21/07
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    imverybasic wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    So Courtney whines. Big deal. Lindsay whines about no one listening to her, Harold whines that Duncan picks on him. Sick of it? Fine, but that doesn't make her evil.

    And, yet again, I must repeat myself. The only justification I ever made for Courtney, ever, is that she is playing the game. You manipulate people, you trick them, you do what it takes to get them kicked off and you stay on. This is in contrast to Beth, who stole Courtney's PDA for her personal use. No strategy involved. I've never said Courtney was virtuous or a protagonist or anything like that. That's why I'm not arguing: I agree Courtney's ruthless. However, as I've stated, ruthless is not evil.

    And yet, Courtney too, tells the truth about Lindsay, who stinks as well, that she doesn't like her, or that Owen cost the team. Why then, is Lindsay virtuous and Courtney evil? Courtney, at least, talked about people after she met them. Further, Courtney insulted Lindsay for something that was, again, the truth: Wonder Woman already existed.

    You're always telling us to stop whining, or penalize Harold for supposedly whining. Courtney's whining doesn't make her evil. It's the way she treats people that makes her evil. Furthermore, everybody has valid reasons for their whining. Harold for being picked on; Lindsay for being mistreated... What does Courtney whine about? Not getting a prize. Big deal. So she doesn't get a prize. How does this make her more entitled than anybody else?

    Listen, you don't need to constantly repeat yourself. I completely understand the point that you're trying to make. I just disagree. You can't refute me because of that. Okay, fine. Manipulating, strategizing, trickery... yes, Courtney's playing the game, but this is what makes her the antagonist and henceforth, evil. Mainly because Heather said the exact same thing as last season's antagonist. She basically strategized, manipulated, whatever. She said she was playing the game. Yes, she got pleasure out of humiliating and mistreating others, but this is exactly how Courtney's acting now. The only difference between the two is that while she tried to humiliate others, Heather's prime goal was to scope out the weaknesses in them. Courtney is mean for the sake of being mean.

    Beth took Courtney's PDA, fine. I already recongnized that that was wrong and it since Million Dollar Babies, the action hasn't been repeated. There's nothing more to say.

    Yes, I know that Courtney tells the truth about Lindsay. While I already pointed this out from/in my last post, I have yet to repeat this again. Courtney and Lindsay both stunk. Lindsay said that she stinks, Courtney could have easily said that Lindsay stinks, as well. But what does she do? She continuously brings up her odor and heckels her mid challenge. "Ha! Not such a wonder woman after all, huh?" Does Lindsay do this to Courtney? No, she doesn't. And even after she told Lindsay, she told her that she stinks like feet, Courtney has the nerve to bring it up again after the challenge. This of course, provokes Leshawna to stick up for her. And yes, I also don't deny Courtney telling Lindsay the truth. She was right about the Wonder Woman costume, but the additional commentary was completely unneccessary. In addition, if Courtney's going to dish it out, she has to learn how to take it. If she has the luxury to insult other people, she can't get defensive when someone insults her. It's hypocrisy. I'll agree that it wasn't neccessary for Lindsay to tell Courtney that she stinks but again, she didn't deliberately tick Courtney off, Courtney did that to herself.

    People insult Courtney. Well why do you think? Based on the way she acted from TDI, most of the contesatnts have lost respect for her. Not only that, news travels fast. So say that someone gets eliminated, events happen and that/the eliminated contestant finds out about it within the next week or so.

    I agree.

    Lindsay isn't smart. It isn't rocket science, it's obvious. She represents the "dumb blond" stereotype on the show. About 90% of the time what she says is due to her empty head. She didn't know what she said would offend Courtney. Courtney just over-reacted to it.

    Personally, I find it completely obvious that because Lindsay doesn't think about what she says that it would be, at least part Courtney's fault for over-reacting to the whole thing. You'd think that Courtney would know how Lindsay is and how she thinks and acts by now.

    Edited on 10/28/2009 11:24am
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  • Avatar of imverybasic

    imverybasic

    [584]Oct 28, 2009
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    That's right.
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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [585]Oct 28, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
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    imverybasic wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    So Courtney whines. Big deal. Lindsay whines about no one listening to her, Harold whines that Duncan picks on him. Sick of it? Fine, but that doesn't make her evil.

    And, yet again, I must repeat myself. The only justification I ever made for Courtney, ever, is that she is playing the game. You manipulate people, you trick them, you do what it takes to get them kicked off and you stay on. This is in contrast to Beth, who stole Courtney's PDA for her personal use. No strategy involved. I've never said Courtney was virtuous or a protagonist or anything like that. That's why I'm not arguing: I agree Courtney's ruthless. However, as I've stated, ruthless is not evil.

    And yet, Courtney too, tells the truth about Lindsay, who stinks as well, that she doesn't like her, or that Owen cost the team. Why then, is Lindsay virtuous and Courtney evil? Courtney, at least, talked about people after she met them. Further, Courtney insulted Lindsay for something that was, again, the truth: Wonder Woman already existed.

    You're always telling us to stop whining, or penalize Harold for supposedly whining. Courtney's whining doesn't make her evil. It's the way she treats people that makes her evil. Furthermore, everybody has valid reasons for their whining. Harold for being picked on; Lindsay for being mistreated... What does Courtney whine about? Not getting a prize. Big deal. So she doesn't get a prize. How does this make her more entitled than anybody else?

    Listen, you don't need to constantly repeat yourself. I completely understand the point that you're trying to make. I just disagree. You can't refute me because of that. Okay, fine. Manipulating, strategizing, trickery... yes, Courtney's playing the game, but this is what makes her the antagonist and henceforth, evil. Mainly because Heather said the exact same thing as last season's antagonist. She basically strategized, manipulated, whatever. She said she was playing the game. Yes, she got pleasure out of humiliating and mistreating others, but this is exactly how Courtney's acting now. The only difference between the two is that while she tried to humiliate others, Heather's prime goal was to scope out the weaknesses in them. Courtney is mean for the sake of being mean.

    Beth took Courtney's PDA, fine. I already recongnized that that was wrong and it since Million Dollar Babies, the action hasn't been repeated. There's nothing more to say.

    Yes, I know that Courtney tells the truth about Lindsay. While I already pointed this out from/in my last post, I have yet to repeat this again. Courtney and Lindsay both stunk. Lindsay said that she stinks, Courtney could have easily said that Lindsay stinks, as well. But what does she do? She continuously brings up her odor and heckels her mid challenge. "Ha! Not such a wonder woman after all, huh?" Does Lindsay do this to Courtney? No, she doesn't. And even after she told Lindsay, she told her that she stinks like feet, Courtney has the nerve to bring it up again after the challenge. This of course, provokes Leshawna to stick up for her. And yes, I also don't deny Courtney telling Lindsay the truth. She was right about the Wonder Woman costume, but the additional commentary was completely unneccessary. In addition, if Courtney's going to dish it out, she has to learn how to take it. If she has the luxury to insult other people, she can't get defensive when someone insults her. It's hypocrisy. I'll agree that it wasn't neccessary for Lindsay to tell Courtney that she stinks but again, she didn't deliberately tick Courtney off, Courtney did that to herself.

    People insult Courtney. Well why do you think? Based on the way she acted from TDI, most of the contesatnts have lost respect for her. Not only that, news travels fast. So say that someone gets eliminated, events happen and that/the eliminated contestant finds out about it within the next week or so.

    What makes their reasons legitimate? Lindsay isn't being mistreated: no one listens to her. That's not mistreatment, that's common sense considering Lindsay's convoluted logic. Harold is bullied by Duncan, but even Duncan has a reason for it: Revenge for cheating off Courtney. Whether you like it or not, people have reasons. Don't say one is legitimate when another is not.

    You've also got things backward between Heather and Courtney. Heather was mean for the sake of mean, tormenting Gwen because Gwen bucked her. Not once has Courtney ever hurt someone like kissing Trent, or humiliated her by ripping the seat of her pants. At worst, Courtney has reveled in the misery of those who were mean to her. It wasn't as if Courtney made Chef hit Lindsay with bowling balls, she just enjoyed Lindsay's failure. Less competition, after all. She likes it when people lose because she can win. This is in contrast to Heather, who went out of her way to make Gwen suffer with a convoulted plot to kiss Trent in front of her.

    Lindsay does go out of her way to torment Courtney: She invited Duncan to the movies, remember.

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  • Avatar of shishkabob999

    shishkabob999

    [586]Oct 28, 2009
    • member since: 05/23/06
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    Harold is bullied by Duncan, but even Duncan has a reason for it: Revenge for cheating off Courtney. Whether you like it or not, people have reasons. Don't say one is legitimate when another is not.
    And how about before Courtney was voted off? You seem to be dodging that issue and instead say that "Harold started it because he voted Courtney off".
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    Lindsay does go out of her way to torment Courtney: She invited Duncan to the movies, remember.
    She even says in the episode that the purpose of tormenting Courtney was "strategistical". Which means that according to your logic, anything that was done for strategy (like kissing Trent to get everyone to vote him off) is completely morally right, unlike what was done out of pure antagonism (such as trash-talking your teammates, which both Heather and Courtney have done).
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  • Avatar of imverybasic

    imverybasic

    [587]Oct 28, 2009
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    What makes their reasons legitimate? Lindsay isn't being mistreated: no one listens to her. That's not mistreatment, that's common sense considering Lindsay's convoluted logic. Harold is bullied by Duncan, but even Duncan has a reason for it: Revenge for cheating off Courtney. Whether you like it or not, people have reasons. Don't say one is legitimate when another is not.

    You've also got things backward between Heather and Courtney. Heather was mean for the sake of mean, tormenting Gwen because Gwen bucked her. Not once has Courtney ever hurt someone like kissing Trent, or humiliated her by ripping the seat of her pants. At worst, Courtney has reveled in the misery of those who were mean to her. It wasn't as if Courtney made Chef hit Lindsay with bowling balls, she just enjoyed Lindsay's failure. Less competition, after all. She likes it when people lose because she can win. This is in contrast to Heather, who went out of her way to make Gwen suffer with a convoulted plot to kiss Trent in front of her.

    Lindsay does go out of her way to torment Courtney: She invited Duncan to the movies, remember.

    No. In case you haven't noticed, Courtney has been throwing insults at her every episode, the latest one included. That's mistreatment. Courtney gets pleasure and delight out of Lindsay's failures. Anytime she faulters, Courtney has the nerve to point it out. Or, she goes out of her way to make sure Lindsay fails. Everytime she, or any other contestant wins a challenge, she goes out of her way to convince Chris to bend the rules in her favour. This is not only mistreatment, this is also considered to be blackmail. At this point, Duncan doesn't really have anything to complain about. Harold cheated Duncan's girlfriend out of one-hundred thousand dollars, but it was because of him that he did it.

    No, I think I got it just right. Despite the shaming and humiliation, Heather's strategy was to eliminate the competition. Seeing as Gwen was one of her biggest threats, she had to find a way to minimize her chances of winning. And considering that Trent was her key to success, or at least she thought so, Heather had to break them up to minimize Gwen's chances of winning. No one was mean to Courtney. Courtney just misinterpret them as mean. These are two completely different things. The only person who brought up Courtney in conversation was Leshawna, who referred to her as a cutthroat. And considering how Courtney behaved last season, there's a reason why she did. Villainy aside, Heather plays the game fairly. Courtney does not. Courtney blackmails Chris and the other contestants; she complains about not getting a prize. Heather does not.

    Lindsay tormented Courtney by inviting Duncan to the movies because Courtney mistreated her, remember?

    Edited on 10/28/2009 5:41pm
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  • Avatar of shishkabob999

    shishkabob999

    [588]Oct 29, 2009
    • member since: 05/23/06
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    Still think that Lindsay's evil and malicious compared to Courtney, Brainman? Pretty clear now that she's supposed to be the psycho, even if she did win immunity again.
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  • Avatar of n5d25d90

    n5d25d90

    [589]Oct 30, 2009
    • member since: 06/18/05
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    I took a little break off this site. Not sure how long it was. A week? Two weeks? Maybe even three? I don't know. So many things have happened to me in the past month that a lot of it is a blur.

    But what I do know is I come back, and I see eighty-five posts--EIGHTY-FIVE POSTS--on this thread, with absolutely no progress whatsoever.

    Please, for the love of all things sane, quit this stupid argument that, let's face it, is really nothing more than a waste of time. It's obvious no one's going to win this debate.

    ...

    Or if you guys do want to keep wasting your time, I guess I can't stop you, but unless I see something completely ridiculous, I'm not intervening in this thread anymore.

    (Edit) Whoop, scratch that, I checked one of the other threads. It was one. So unless I hadn't been checking this thread in particular for updates at my last visit... 85 new posts is pretty sad.

    Edited on 10/30/2009 9:26pm
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  • Avatar of animatiun_lover

    animatiun_lover

    [590]Oct 31, 2009
    • member since: 10/29/09
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    n5d25d90 wrote:

    I took a little break off this site. Not sure how long it was. A week? Two weeks? Maybe even three? I don't know. So many things have happened to me in the past month that a lot of it is a blur.

    But what I do know is I come back, and I see eighty-five posts--EIGHTY-FIVE POSTS--on this thread, with absolutely no progress whatsoever.

    Please, for the love of all things sane, quit this stupid argument that, let's face it, is really nothing more than a waste of time. It's obvious no one's going to win this debate.

    ...

    Or if you guys do want to keep wasting your time, I guess I can't stop you, but unless I see something completely ridiculous, I'm not intervening in this thread anymore.

    (Edit) Whoop, scratch that, I checked one of the other threads. It was one. So unless I hadn't been checking this thread in particular for updates at my last visit... 85 new posts is pretty sad.

    dont bother ive already ytried to stop them twice. theyll just completely ignore u and keep arguing lol and trust me the total drama island forums are axtive we get over 10 posts to one thread a day and considering how people have lives and this is a school period i dont think its sad byut then again i may just be a noobO_O
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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [591]Oct 31, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
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    shishkabob999 wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    Harold is bullied by Duncan, but even Duncan has a reason for it: Revenge for cheating off Courtney. Whether you like it or not, people have reasons. Don't say one is legitimate when another is not.
    And how about before Courtney was voted off? You seem to be dodging that issue and instead say that "Harold started it because he voted Courtney off".
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    Lindsay does go out of her way to torment Courtney: She invited Duncan to the movies, remember.
    She even says in the episode that the purpose of tormenting Courtney was "strategistical". Which means that according to your logic, anything that was done for strategy (like kissing Trent to get everyone to vote him off) is completely morally right, unlike what was done out of pure antagonism (such as trash-talking your teammates, which both Heather and Courtney have done).

    Considering Lindsay can't even pronounce the correct word, I strongly doubt she was using it properly.

    As for Harold, Duncan was playing pranks merely because he likes to do so. That's still a reason. He gets a better one, yeah, but he's not playing pranks for the first one anymore.

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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [592]Oct 31, 2009
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    imverybasic wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    What makes their reasons legitimate? Lindsay isn't being mistreated: no one listens to her. That's not mistreatment, that's common sense considering Lindsay's convoluted logic. Harold is bullied by Duncan, but even Duncan has a reason for it: Revenge for cheating off Courtney. Whether you like it or not, people have reasons. Don't say one is legitimate when another is not.

    You've also got things backward between Heather and Courtney. Heather was mean for the sake of mean, tormenting Gwen because Gwen bucked her. Not once has Courtney ever hurt someone like kissing Trent, or humiliated her by ripping the seat of her pants. At worst, Courtney has reveled in the misery of those who were mean to her. It wasn't as if Courtney made Chef hit Lindsay with bowling balls, she just enjoyed Lindsay's failure. Less competition, after all. She likes it when people lose because she can win. This is in contrast to Heather, who went out of her way to make Gwen suffer with a convoulted plot to kiss Trent in front of her.

    Lindsay does go out of her way to torment Courtney: She invited Duncan to the movies, remember.

    No. In case you haven't noticed, Courtney has been throwing insults at her every episode, the latest one included. That's mistreatment. Courtney gets pleasure and delight out of Lindsay's failures. Anytime she faulters, Courtney has the nerve to point it out. Or, she goes out of her way to make sure Lindsay fails. Everytime she, or any other contestant wins a challenge, she goes out of her way to convince Chris to bend the rules in her favour. This is not only mistreatment, this is also considered to be blackmail. At this point, Duncan doesn't really have anything to complain about. Harold cheated Duncan's girlfriend out of one-hundred thousand dollars, but it was because of him that he did it.

    No, I think I got it just right. Despite the shaming and humiliation, Heather's strategy was to eliminate the competition. Seeing as Gwen was one of her biggest threats, she had to find a way to minimize her chances of winning. And considering that Trent was her key to success, or at least she thought so, Heather had to break them up to minimize Gwen's chances of winning. No one was mean to Courtney. Courtney just misinterpret them as mean. These are two completely different things. The only person who brought up Courtney in conversation was Leshawna, who referred to her as a cutthroat. And considering how Courtney behaved last season, there's a reason why she did. Villainy aside, Heather plays the game fairly. Courtney does not. Courtney blackmails Chris and the other contestants; she complains about not getting a prize. Heather does not.

    Lindsay tormented Courtney by inviting Duncan to the movies because Courtney mistreated her, remember?

    You seem to forget that Lindsay never whines that Courtney insults her: She whines that no one listens to her because Courtney has returned. Courtney's insults mean nothing to that. Further, it's not even "mistreatment." Her insults are true, after all. Don't you like that word?

    Where, exactly, has Courtney gone out of her way to make Lindsay fail? During each and every challenge, Courtney applies herself to the challenge, not to make Lindsay fail. At worst, Courtney prevented Lindsay from getting her toe print. But honestly, that was the challenge. You can't blame Courtney for that.

    Perhaps it is blackmail, but there are no rules against it. Courtney hasn't done anything wrong. And yes, Duncan does have something to complain about: Harold performed his actions deliberately. You forgive Harold for his actions, but condemn Courtney for doing the exact same thing: taking the law into his own hands. Unlike Harold, however, Courtney is doing things legitimately. She is under contract, after all.

    Actually, you got Heather and Courtney horribly wrong: just admit it. Heather's strategy was to eliminate competition, but she also did things completely separate from that to humiliate Gwen. Further, Heather complained all the time about everyone else, particularly Leshawna. I admit that Heather does not break any rules, but neither does Courtney: those rules were set by her lawyers. They must be followed.

    Plenty of people were mean to Courtney. Further, it was done proactively: Leshawna was mean to Courtney long before Courtney was mean to Leshawna. By your logic, all of Courtney's supposed atrocities against Leshawna would be forgiven, since Leshawna threw the first punch. Same with Harold, and with Lindsay. After all, even if Courtney misinterpreted it as you claim, she still believes Lindsay is cruel and acts accordingly.

    Regardless of whether or not Courtney is mean, we are discussing Lindsay's motives. She did it to torment Courtney. That's all. Lindsay is heinous, and Courtney has no reason to be kind to her.

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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [593]Oct 31, 2009
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    shishkabob999 wrote:
    Still think that Lindsay's evil and malicious compared to Courtney, Brainman? Pretty clear now that she's supposed to be the psycho, even if she did win immunity again.

    I don't compare, there is no point. One person being more or less malicious is irrevelant: they're both still malicious. What difference does it make?

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  • Avatar of n5d25d90

    n5d25d90

    [594]Oct 31, 2009
    • member since: 06/18/05
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    animatiun_lover wrote:
    n5d25d90 wrote:

    I took a little break off this site. Not sure how long it was. A week? Two weeks? Maybe even three? I don't know. So many things have happened to me in the past month that a lot of it is a blur.

    But what I do know is I come back, and I see eighty-five posts--EIGHTY-FIVE POSTS--on this thread, with absolutely no progress whatsoever.

    Please, for the love of all things sane, quit this stupid argument that, let's face it, is really nothing more than a waste of time. It's obvious no one's going to win this debate.

    ...

    Or if you guys do want to keep wasting your time, I guess I can't stop you, but unless I see something completely ridiculous, I'm not intervening in this thread anymore.

    (Edit) Whoop, scratch that, I checked one of the other threads. It was one. So unless I hadn't been checking this thread in particular for updates at my last visit... 85 new posts is pretty sad.

    dont bother ive already ytried to stop them twice. theyll just completely ignore u and keep arguing lol and trust me the total drama island forums are axtive we get over 10 posts to one thread a day and considering how people have lives and this is a school period i dont think its sad byut then again i may just be a noobO_O


    It's not so much that it was 85 new posts that I found sad, it was 85 new posts that didn't make any real progress, as far as I could tell, that I find sad.
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  • Avatar of animatiun_lover

    animatiun_lover

    [595]Nov 1, 2009
    • member since: 10/29/09
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    n5d25d90 wrote:
    animatiun_lover wrote:
    n5d25d90 wrote:

    I took a little break off this site. Not sure how long it was. A week? Two weeks? Maybe even three? I don't know. So many things have happened to me in the past month that a lot of it is a blur.

    But what I do know is I come back, and I see eighty-five posts--EIGHTY-FIVE POSTS--on this thread, with absolutely no progress whatsoever.

    Please, for the love of all things sane, quit this stupid argument that, let's face it, is really nothing more than a waste of time. It's obvious no one's going to win this debate.

    ...

    Or if you guys do want to keep wasting your time, I guess I can't stop you, but unless I see something completely ridiculous, I'm not intervening in this thread anymore.

    (Edit) Whoop, scratch that, I checked one of the other threads. It was one. So unless I hadn't been checking this thread in particular for updates at my last visit... 85 new posts is pretty sad.

    dont bother ive already ytried to stop them twice. theyll just completely ignore u and keep arguing lol and trust me the total drama island forums are axtive we get over 10 posts to one thread a day and considering how people have lives and this is a school period i dont think its sad byut then again i may just be a noobO_O
    It's not so much that it was 85 new posts that I found sad, it was 85 new posts that didn't make any real progress, as far as I could tell, that I find sad.
    oh well in that case i agree lol
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  • Avatar of imverybasic

    imverybasic

    [596]Nov 1, 2009
    • member since: 07/09/06
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 3,060
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    imverybasic wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    What makes their reasons legitimate? Lindsay isn't being mistreated: no one listens to her. That's not mistreatment, that's common sense considering Lindsay's convoluted logic. Harold is bullied by Duncan, but even Duncan has a reason for it: Revenge for cheating off Courtney. Whether you like it or not, people have reasons. Don't say one is legitimate when another is not.

    You've also got things backward between Heather and Courtney. Heather was mean for the sake of mean, tormenting Gwen because Gwen bucked her. Not once has Courtney ever hurt someone like kissing Trent, or humiliated her by ripping the seat of her pants. At worst, Courtney has reveled in the misery of those who were mean to her. It wasn't as if Courtney made Chef hit Lindsay with bowling balls, she just enjoyed Lindsay's failure. Less competition, after all. She likes it when people lose because she can win. This is in contrast to Heather, who went out of her way to make Gwen suffer with a convoulted plot to kiss Trent in front of her.

    Lindsay does go out of her way to torment Courtney: She invited Duncan to the movies, remember.

    No. In case you haven't noticed, Courtney has been throwing insults at her every episode, the latest one included. That's mistreatment. Courtney gets pleasure and delight out of Lindsay's failures. Anytime she faulters, Courtney has the nerve to point it out. Or, she goes out of her way to make sure Lindsay fails. Everytime she, or any other contestant wins a challenge, she goes out of her way to convince Chris to bend the rules in her favour. This is not only mistreatment, this is also considered to be blackmail. At this point, Duncan doesn't really have anything to complain about. Harold cheated Duncan's girlfriend out of one-hundred thousand dollars, but it was because of him that he did it.

    No, I think I got it just right. Despite the shaming and humiliation, Heather's strategy was to eliminate the competition. Seeing as Gwen was one of her biggest threats, she had to find a way to minimize her chances of winning. And considering that Trent was her key to success, or at least she thought so, Heather had to break them up to minimize Gwen's chances of winning. No one was mean to Courtney. Courtney just misinterpret them as mean. These are two completely different things. The only person who brought up Courtney in conversation was Leshawna, who referred to her as a cutthroat. And considering how Courtney behaved last season, there's a reason why she did. Villainy aside, Heather plays the game fairly. Courtney does not. Courtney blackmails Chris and the other contestants; she complains about not getting a prize. Heather does not.

    Lindsay tormented Courtney by inviting Duncan to the movies because Courtney mistreated her, remember?

    You seem to forget that Lindsay never whines that Courtney insults her: She whines that no one listens to her because Courtney has returned. Courtney's insults mean nothing to that. Further, it's not even "mistreatment." Her insults are true, after all. Don't you like that word?

    Where, exactly, has Courtney gone out of her way to make Lindsay fail? During each and every challenge, Courtney applies herself to the challenge, not to make Lindsay fail. At worst, Courtney prevented Lindsay from getting her toe print. But honestly, that was the challenge. You can't blame Courtney for that.

    Perhaps it is blackmail, but there are no rules against it. Courtney hasn't done anything wrong. And yes, Duncan does have something to complain about: Harold performed his actions deliberately. You forgive Harold for his actions, but condemn Courtney for doing the exact same thing: taking the law into his own hands. Unlike Harold, however, Courtney is doing things legitimately. She is under contract, after all.

    Actually, you got Heather and Courtney horribly wrong: just admit it. Heather's strategy was to eliminate competition, but she also did things completely separate from that to humiliate Gwen. Further, Heather complained all the time about everyone else, particularly Leshawna. I admit that Heather does not break any rules, but neither does Courtney: those rules were set by her lawyers. They must be followed.

    Plenty of people were mean to Courtney. Further, it was done proactively: Leshawna was mean to Courtney long before Courtney was mean to Leshawna. By your logic, all of Courtney's supposed atrocities against Leshawna would be forgiven, since Leshawna threw the first punch. Same with Harold, and with Lindsay. After all, even if Courtney misinterpreted it as you claim, she still believes Lindsay is cruel and acts accordingly.

    Regardless of whether or not Courtney is mean, we are discussing Lindsay's motives. She did it to torment Courtney. That's all. Lindsay is heinous, and Courtney has no reason to be kind to her.

    I'm done with this debate. I'm sorry, but you can't refute me of my points. My point stands and that's all. No matter how you look at it, or no matter how you put it, I'm always going to disaree with you. I completely disagree with everything you said and have been saying and vise versa. This debate has gone on for long enough and it's become very upsetting to deal with. So I'm just going to say this: This time, I won't respond to this post with another argument. I feel that I have made my points and have provided my evidence. If you don't agree with me, fine. That's understandable. I don't agree with you as well. This discussion has gone on for a really long time and I've grown sick of fighting. It's so obvious that no one is winning this debate, so let's just stop. I'm willing to call it truce if you are.

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  • Avatar of Grammar_man

    Grammar_man

    [597]Nov 14, 2009
    • member since: 12/27/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 48

    From my post in the big season 2 thread:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Not this **** again.


    Yes, Harold cheated. Yes Harold did it to make Duncan suffer. In that way, yes Courtney was innocent.


    But otherwise, no, she isn't. You see, three types of bullying have been central on the show-

    Verbal: Heather, though many characters do this at times.

    Physical: Duncan.

    Psychological: Courtney did this to Harold just about every single time they interacted in TDI. Heather to many characters, but to a much smaller amount. And I'm only talking TDI here.


    Courtney may have been turned up quite a bit on the malevolent side, but anyone saying she was kind and sweet in TDI is kidding themselves. She was a bully. Get over it.


    For us that have actually been subjected to that type of bullying, it was refreshing to see him get her voted off even if was cheating and he was not actually trying make her angry. It was a Crowning Moment of Awesome.


    Oh, and typical characteristics of bullies:


    Research indicates that adults who bully have personalities that are authoritarian, combined with a strong need to control or dominate. It has also been suggested that a prejudicial view of subordinates can be particular a risk factor.


    Check.


    Further studies have shown that while envy and resentment may be motives for bullying,[15] there is little evidence to suggest that bullies suffer from any deficit in self esteem (as this would make it difficult to bully) However, bullying can also be used as a tool to conceal shame or anxiety or to boost self esteem: by demeaning others, the abuser him/herself feels empowered.


    Important.


    Researchers have identified other risk factors such as quickness to anger and use of force, addiction to aggressive behaviors, mistaking others' actions as hostile, concern with preserving self image, and engaging in obsessive or rigid actions.[17]

    Check.

    -----------------

    So while Harold did not cheat her off to get revenge for her bullying, she DESERVED it.

    Besides what's noted above, she has tried to assault him with a lamppost- which over here in Sweden translates to YEARS in prison. Him cheating does not give her the right to do that.

    Cheating is wrong, and should have gotten Harold kicked off the contest, but that's up to the judge- Chris.

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  • Avatar of stalemate666

    stalemate666

    [598]Nov 15, 2009
    • member since: 10/19/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 927
    Here's some facts -Harold voted off Leshawna to cover his own ass, though he was wrong in the assumption he was in danger he still did it. -Harold cheated courtney off the show. -Harold attacked Duncan for no good reason when he was working with Harold peacefully. -Harold (although it's all completely delusional) thinks he has 2 girls in the bag and shows no remorse or intent on choosing one and even made a move on Beth.

    Harold is more of a villain then Courtney is, Courtney never singled Harold out until he singled her out, she's blunt but it's not like she targets ppl that's just the way she is brutally honest, and everyone just turned on her this season you really expect her to play nice when everyone is hating her when she was the one that was wronged I'm not saying she's a saint but she isn't half the villain Harold is
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  • Avatar of shishkabob999

    shishkabob999

    [599]Nov 15, 2009
    • member since: 05/23/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 2,147
    stalemate666 wrote:
    Here's some facts -Harold voted off Leshawna to cover his own ass, though he was wrong in the assumption he was in danger he still did it. -Harold cheated courtney off the show. -Harold attacked Duncan for no good reason when he was working with Harold peacefully. -Harold (although it's all completely delusional) thinks he has 2 girls in the bag and shows no remorse or intent on choosing one and even made a move on Beth.

    Harold is more of a villain then Courtney is, Courtney never singled Harold out until he singled her out, she's blunt but it's not like she targets ppl that's just the way she is brutally honest, and everyone just turned on her this season you really expect her to play nice when everyone is hating her when she was the one that was wronged I'm not saying she's a saint but she isn't half the villain Harold is


    Nobody's going to bother with you, all your points can be easily refuted and you're an awful debator. Really, you're more biased than Brainman... heck, I think you're more biased against Harold than HAYDEN is for him.
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  • Avatar of stalemate666

    stalemate666

    [600]Nov 15, 2009
    • member since: 10/19/08
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 927
    shishkabob999 wrote:
    stalemate666 wrote:
    Here's some facts -Harold voted off Leshawna to cover his own ass, though he was wrong in the assumption he was in danger he still did it. -Harold cheated courtney off the show. -Harold attacked Duncan for no good reason when he was working with Harold peacefully. -Harold (although it's all completely delusional) thinks he has 2 girls in the bag and shows no remorse or intent on choosing one and even made a move on Beth.

    Harold is more of a villain then Courtney is, Courtney never singled Harold out until he singled her out, she's blunt but it's not like she targets ppl that's just the way she is brutally honest, and everyone just turned on her this season you really expect her to play nice when everyone is hating her when she was the one that was wronged I'm not saying she's a saint but she isn't half the villain Harold is


    Nobody's going to bother with you, all your points can be easily refuted and you're an awful debator. Really, you're more biased than Brainman... heck, I think you're more biased against Harold than HAYDEN is for him.

    My arguments are sound you just ignore them because you don't like the truth
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