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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

The New Official Kataang/Zutara Battlefield

Best Ship

  • Avatar of Toph_kicks_butt

    Toph_kicks_butt

    [41]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 12/17/07
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    SilverDragonfan wrote:
    Zutar already lost the war so this is completely pointless!!!!!!!!!!!
    That's what i was about to say.
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  • Avatar of kamzts

    kamzts

    [42]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 02/15/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 239
    Toph_kicks_butt wrote:
    SilverDragonfan wrote:
    Zutar already lost the war so this is completely pointless!!!!!!!!!!!
    That's what i was about to say.


    Yeah but Zutarians insist that Zutara is going to happen so I like to argue with them its fun.
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  • Avatar of SgtHydra

    SgtHydra

    [43]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 03/26/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 4,838

    Zutara doesn't necessarily have to happen.

    Its just a good excuse to make anime porn to post on DA. And it makes great Three Days Grace AMVs... Plus its got a huge amount of angst that doesn't involve Aang sounding retarded.

    And that is why Zutara is 150% SgtHydra approved!

    Plusaangisafriggingbald12yearold *runs off*

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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [44]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 849
    MasterBender wrote:
    1. I think it would be necessary since he kissed her.

    But we can never really resolve this issue until the series ends. The fact is we're not mind-readers, neither of Katara nor of Mike and Brian.

    Fine, I have no problem dropping this issue. I've had to answer it so many times.

    MasterBender wrote:
    2. I know we don't know what the other Avatar's attachments were. But part of my point is that Avatars can love and still control the AS. Allow me to illustrate my reasoning.

    Premises:

    Aang needs to let go of his attachment. Katara is his attachment. Appa is more important to Aang than Katara. Yet Appa is not Aang's attachment. What Katara has over Appa is Aang's romantic love.

    Conclusion:

    The "attachment" that blocks the Seventh Chakra is caused by love.

    New Premises:

    The "attachment" that blocks the Seventh Chakra is caused by love. Aang loves Katara. Yet Roku states that being the Avatar doesn't hurt your chances with the ladies, and was able to control the AS and have a wife.

    New Conclusion:

    The "letting go of attachments" to control the AS is not permanent. Aang can love Katara but still control the Avatar State.

    Where do you get that Aang thinks Appa is more important than Katara? He went into the AS when both were taken away from him and "The Guru" showed us that Katara is what attaches Aang the most to this world. I think that those things show that Katara is more important. You're completely ignoring what was shown in the series.

    MasterBender wrote:
    3. I don't know. All I know is that Aunt Wu didn't explicitly say "you have no romance in your future", and that the future is not set in stone.
    Anything that Aunt Wu predicts is set in stone, as long as you look at the exact wording. I mean, don't you guys find it suspicious that no one has been referred to as a "very powerful bender" yet in the series, except for Katara's mystery future husband? It seems like such a fill-in-the-blank adjective to describe someone in the show, but they haven't used it. They would have to be going out of the way to make sure that they didn't use that term until it was revelation time.

    MasterBender wrote:
    All this stuff is just highlighting why Kataang hasn't come to fruition yet. Can you supply some evidence for Zutara now?
    Fair enough. I've actually been happy to take the offensive, but I can handle defense for a while.

    As I've said, right now, Katara's feelings for Zuko are between mad and hate, while Zuko is trying to be friends with everyone at most. However, the potential to turn this into love exists, here's why:

    Zuko- Zuko clearly holds Katara in higher regards than the others. Not just because she's threatened him, though. He's held her in higher regards since season one. At everyone else who has pissed him off, he's yelled at them and even threatened them at times. Sokka, Iroh, Aang, his crew, Azula, Mai, Ty Lee, you see where I'm going with this. However, the worst he has ever said to Katara was calling her a "little peasant" and he did it in a rather calm voice. Even in TFM, he snapped at Aang, right in front of Katara for his comment about dragons, but he didn't snap at her for her insults towards him. There's also the fact that he let her touch his scar in CoD, which is a big issue for him.

    Katara- If you watch Katara's pattern of behavior towards Jet in Ba Sing Se, you'll see that it's a less extreme version of her behavior towards Zuko. Attack, trust via necessity, warning him that she still doesn't trust him 100%, and offensive sarcasm towards him. Now, one might say that all this shows is how she treats guys who broke her heart and that she did feel love towards him at CoD. However, there was one thing I noticed recently that's been bothering me.

    In WAT, when Zuko first greets them and Katara smacks him down with water, she says, "Get out and don't come back! And if we ever see you again...

    *Pauses and looks down*

    "...Well, we better not see you again!"

    It made me raise an eyebrow. After all, how hard is it to tell a hated enemy that, if you ever see him again, you'll kill/maim/end/destroy/some-synonym-of-seriously-hurt him? I think it shows that Katara still has something for him.

    Now, you may wonder how she can then threaten him at the end of that episode and you're right, it doesn't make sense. If she could so easily threaten him after the group accepted him and he saved them from Combustion Man, why couldn't she threaten him before those things happened?

    Now, as I said, for now, it's not love. But the potential for it is there within the characters. However, there is an even more important reason for it within the plot.

    First off, the leaked sketch from the Boiling Rock clearly showed Mai and Zuko talking in non-favorable terms. They weren't exactly all over each other and happy to see the other one. I think they are going to break up during that episode.

    Second, Aang needs a reason to let go of Katara so he can use the AS. Her being in love with someone else gives him a reason to do that. Basically, the Zuko + Katara relationship advances the plot by helping Aang grow as a character and achieve the power that he needs to fight Ozi.

    As far as the gate things go, more things than Naruto and AtLA use them. I've heard them called gates, chakuras, energies, and a lot of other things. It's all blended together.

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  • Avatar of Toph_kicks_butt

    Toph_kicks_butt

    [45]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 12/17/07
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    I'm 2 lazy 2 read all of that.
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  • Avatar of SgtHydra

    SgtHydra

    [46]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 03/26/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
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    To the above post:

    Zutara. Iz. Awesome.

    Me no care if it happens or not.

    Besides, this is a nick cartoon show! They won't right out say which ship happens at the end! They will have an ambiguous ending to please the parents who think their kid will never have the urge to... copulate...

    And plus, we are talking about a 12 year old kid on one side of relationship. A 12 year old kid and you sickos are shipping with him.

    Disgraceful...

    As for the numerous hints allegedly dropped, what about the Taang hint in The Swamp? Or was that just my imagination.

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  • Avatar of waterbender6025

    waterbender6025

    [47]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 02/09/08
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:

    As I've said, right now, Katara's feelings for Zuko are between mad and hate, while Zuko is trying to be friends with everyone at most. However, the potential to turn this into love exists, here's why:

    Zuko- Zuko clearly holds Katara in higher regards than the others. Not just because she's threatened him, though. He's held her in higher regards since season one. At everyone else who has pissed him off, he's yelled at them and even threatened them at times. Sokka, Iroh, Aang, his crew, Azula, Mai, Ty Lee, you see where I'm going with this. However, the worst he has ever said to Katara was calling her a "little peasant" and he did it in a rather calm voice. Even in TFM, he snapped at Aang, right in front of Katara for his comment about dragons, but he didn't snap at her for her insults towards him. There's also the fact that he let her touch his scar in CoD, which is a big issue for him.

    Katara- If you watch Katara's pattern of behavior towards Jet in Ba Sing Se, you'll see that it's a less extreme version of her behavior towards Zuko. Attack, trust via necessity, warning him that she still doesn't trust him 100%, and offensive sarcasm towards him. Now, one might say that all this shows is how she treats guys who broke her heart and that she did feel love towards him at CoD. However, there was one thing I noticed recently that's been bothering me.

    In WAT, when Zuko first greets them and Katara smacks him down with water, she says, "Get out and don't come back! And if we ever see you again...

    *Pauses and looks down*

    "...Well, we better not see you again!"

    It made me raise an eyebrow. After all, how hard is it to tell a hated enemy that, if you ever see him again, you'll kill/maim/end/destroy/some-synonym-of-seriously-hurt him? I think it shows that Katara still has something for him.

    Now, you may wonder how she can then threaten him at the end of that episode and you're right, it doesn't make sense. If she could so easily threaten him after the group accepted him and he saved them from Combustion Man, why couldn't she threaten him before those things happened?

    yeah hmmm maybe you think that its a kids show that they cant say im going end/destroy/obliterate/murder you on it? notice how they also havent shown anybody actually die, like combustion man they could of completely proved that he is dead but they just made his metal arm fall down instead of his entire body, why? because of the ratinmg they CAN'T show/say things like that. im guessing she said to to him afterwards because it was more personal, zuko only has every really hurt katara the most out of the gaang while trying to get to aang, (fight at the spirit oasis, CoD, pirate episode etc). its just not going to happen, katara hates him so much that i think they might just be friend at the end of the series to show peace not them falling in love with each other and leaving aang devestated that his one true love just left with someone she hated for the majority of the show. really its just obsurd
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  • Avatar of MasterBender

    MasterBender

    [48]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 11/03/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 322
    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    MasterBender wrote:
    1. I think it would be necessary since he kissed her.

    But we can never really resolve this issue until the series ends. The fact is we're not mind-readers, neither of Katara nor of Mike and Brian.

    Fine, I have no problem dropping this issue. I've had to answer it so many times.

    MasterBender wrote:
    2. I know we don't know what the other Avatar's attachments were. But part of my point is that Avatars can love and still control the AS. Allow me to illustrate my reasoning.

    Premises:

    Aang needs to let go of his attachment. Katara is his attachment. Appa is more important to Aang than Katara. Yet Appa is not Aang's attachment. What Katara has over Appa is Aang's romantic love.

    Conclusion:

    The "attachment" that blocks the Seventh Chakra is caused by love.

    New Premises:

    The "attachment" that blocks the Seventh Chakra is caused by love. Aang loves Katara. Yet Roku states that being the Avatar doesn't hurt your chances with the ladies, and was able to control the AS and have a wife.

    New Conclusion:

    The "letting go of attachments" to control the AS is not permanent. Aang can love Katara but still control the Avatar State.

    Where do you get that Aang thinks Appa is more important than Katara? He went into the AS when both were taken away from him and "The Guru" showed us that Katara is what attaches Aang the most to this world. I think that those things show that Katara is more important. You're completely ignoring what was shown in the series.

    MasterBender wrote:
    3. I don't know. All I know is that Aunt Wu didn't explicitly say "you have no romance in your future", and that the future is not set in stone.
    Anything that Aunt Wu predicts is set in stone, as long as you look at the exact wording. I mean, don't you guys find it suspicious that no one has been referred to as a "very powerful bender" yet in the series, except for Katara's mystery future husband? It seems like such a fill-in-the-blank adjective to describe someone in the show, but they haven't used it. They would have to be going out of the way to make sure that they didn't use that term until it was revelation time.

    MasterBender wrote:
    All this stuff is just highlighting why Kataang hasn't come to fruition yet. Can you supply some evidence for Zutara now?
    Fair enough. I've actually been happy to take the offensive, but I can handle defense for a while.

    As I've said, right now, Katara's feelings for Zuko are between mad and hate, while Zuko is trying to be friends with everyone at most. However, the potential to turn this into love exists, here's why:

    Zuko- Zuko clearly holds Katara in higher regards than the others. Not just because she's threatened him, though. He's held her in higher regards since season one. At everyone else who has pissed him off, he's yelled at them and even threatened them at times. Sokka, Iroh, Aang, his crew, Azula, Mai, Ty Lee, you see where I'm going with this. However, the worst he has ever said to Katara was calling her a "little peasant" and he did it in a rather calm voice. Even in TFM, he snapped at Aang, right in front of Katara for his comment about dragons, but he didn't snap at her for her insults towards him. There's also the fact that he let her touch his scar in CoD, which is a big issue for him.

    Katara- If you watch Katara's pattern of behavior towards Jet in Ba Sing Se, you'll see that it's a less extreme version of her behavior towards Zuko. Attack, trust via necessity, warning him that she still doesn't trust him 100%, and offensive sarcasm towards him. Now, one might say that all this shows is how she treats guys who broke her heart and that she did feel love towards him at CoD. However, there was one thing I noticed recently that's been bothering me.

    In WAT, when Zuko first greets them and Katara smacks him down with water, she says, "Get out and don't come back! And if we ever see you again...

    *Pauses and looks down*

    "...Well, we better not see you again!"

    It made me raise an eyebrow. After all, how hard is it to tell a hated enemy that, if you ever see him again, you'll kill/maim/end/destroy/some-synonym-of-seriously-hurt him? I think it shows that Katara still has something for him.

    Now, you may wonder how she can then threaten him at the end of that episode and you're right, it doesn't make sense. If she could so easily threaten him after the group accepted him and he saved them from Combustion Man, why couldn't she threaten him before those things happened?

    Now, as I said, for now, it's not love. But the potential for it is there within the characters. However, there is an even more important reason for it within the plot.

    First off, the leaked sketch from the Boiling Rock clearly showed Mai and Zuko talking in non-favorable terms. They weren't exactly all over each other and happy to see the other one. I think they are going to break up during that episode.

    Second, Aang needs a reason to let go of Katara so he can use the AS. Her being in love with someone else gives him a reason to do that. Basically, the Zuko + Katara relationship advances the plot by helping Aang grow as a character and achieve the power that he needs to fight Ozi.

    As far as the gate things go, more things than Naruto and AtLA use them. I've heard them called gates, chakuras, energies, and a lot of other things. It's all blended together.

    Ok. What gives me the idea that Appa is closer to Aang is...

    A. Aang has known Appa longer. B. Aang has spent more time with Appa. C. Appa is Aang's last attachment to the Air Nomads. D. Aang's depression over Appa drove him to such lengths as to yell at Katara and deny a hug from her.

    No I am not ignoring stuff from the series. I am explaining that Katara was Aang's attachment because of love. Roku loved, yet could control the AS. Ther is no problem for Kataang here.

    As for Aunt Wu, you forget what she said at the end of the ep...

    "Aang: Can I ask you something?
    Aunt Wu: Of course, honey.
    Aang: You didn't really see love in my fortune, did you? You just told me what I wanted to hear.
    Aunt Wu: I'll tell you a little secret, young Airbender. Just as you reshaped those clouds, you have the power to reshape your own destiny."

    Ok, Zuko respects Katara. But respect her from Season 1? Uh, I don't think "little peasant" is respectful.

    Anyway, respect is a far cry from love.

    Katara didn't threaten Zuko because she had no need to. Aang and Sokka, the local protective males, had that covered. But now she apparently thinks that Zuko conned Aang, and now it's her duty to protect him. Still no sign of attraction.

    You say that her attitude to Jet was a less extreme version of her attitude to Zuko... notice how that didn't end in renewed romance.

    In response to that first point, we'll just have to wait.

    In response to the second point... see above.

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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [49]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
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    @Waterbender

    At this point, we'd just be arguing in circles. You think that it's too late to make Zuko and Katara to fall in love, despite the fact that romances don't take that long to build up in the AtLA universe. I say that turning Aang's #1 internal conflict into a misunderstanding is too absurd and it's much too late to create a new way to master the AS without giving up Katara. I also say that having Zuko and Katara be together gives Aang a reason to let her go.

    We'd just be arguing in circles.

    ------------------------------------------

    MasterBender wrote:

    Ok. What gives me the idea that Appa is closer to Aang is...

    A. Aang has known Appa longer. B. Aang has spent more time with Appa. C. Appa is Aang's last attachment to the Air Nomads. D. Aang's depression over Appa drove him to such lengths as to yell at Katara and deny a hug from her.

    No I am not ignoring stuff from the series. I am explaining that Katara was Aang's attachment because of love. Roku loved, yet could control the AS. Ther is no problem for Kataang here.

    I'm not denying that he cares a lot about Appa, but you've overlooked something. There's a huge difference between Aang's love of Katara and Roku's love of what's-her-face.

    Aang's been traveling all over the world with Katara, she's saved him from going psycho-avatar numerous times, and he's gotten to know her so much. Roku didn't really interact with his future wife until he got back. Remember when Aang said "Hey, it's that girl that didn't even know you existed."? Roku never really got attached to her until after he became a full avatar. There was no reason for her to be what attached him to this world. It is merely incidental that Aang's attachment involves love.

    MasterBender wrote:
    As for Aunt Wu, you forget what she said at the end of the ep...

    "Aang: Can I ask you something?
    Aunt Wu: Of course, honey.
    Aang: You didn't really see love in my fortune, did you? You just told me what I wanted to hear.
    Aunt Wu: I'll tell you a little secret, young Airbender. Just as you reshaped those clouds, you have the power to reshape your own destiny."

    No, actually, I never forgot that and that disproves the "she just didn't see the cracks" argument.

    If Wu had enough calmness to talk to him like that, why didn't she just say "Too tell you the truth, I wasn't focused on anything but the explosion. Why don't I give you a different, non-exploding, reading? Like your palm, which is what I used with your waterbender friend, which won't explode?"

    She didn't see any love because she looked and it wasn't there. Plus, if she only told him what he wanted to hear once, what's to stop her from doing it again?

    MasterBender wrote:

    Ok, Zuko respects Katara. But respect her from Season 1? Uh, I don't think "little peasant" is respectful.

    Anyway, respect is a far cry from love.

    Respect and kindness are two different things. Talk to sports rivals. They hate each other's guts, but there's respect there. And yes, respect =/= love. However, it gives the potential for it.

    MasterBender wrote:
    Katara didn't threaten Zuko because she had no need to. Aang and Sokka, the local protective males, had that covered. But now she apparently thinks that Zuko conned Aang, and now it's her duty to protect him. Still no sign of attraction.
    She thinks she has to protect Aang from Zuko now that he's "conned" him? Hmmm that sounds familiar...

    Ursa_in_Zuko_Alone wrote:

    Zuko, that's what moms are like. If you mess with their babies...

    *chomping sound*

    ...they're going to bite you back.

    Seriously, though. If there was no need to threaten him, why start the threat in the first place? Why attack him in the first place? Why not just say "GTFO!" (obviously, not those words) and let Aang and Sokka do the forcing?

    MasterBender wrote:
    You say that her attitude to Jet was a less extreme version of her attitude to Zuko... notice how that didn't end in renewed romance.
    The way it ended was that she seemed genuinely upset that he was dying. Like she still cared about him. Maybe not love, but she cared about him. Which leads me back to asking why she's never told Aang that she loves him when they've had all this death and near-death surrounding them? It seems natural that she'd realise that either of them could die any day and that he or she could die without him knowing. I don't think that, in a now-or-never moment, Katara would pick never.

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  • Avatar of horacus

    horacus

    [50]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 01/10/08
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    SgtHydra wrote:

    horacus wrote:
    The other was not enough?

    Mine is an evil laugh.

    Evil...evil?

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  • Avatar of horacus

    horacus

    [51]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 01/10/08
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    Toph_kicks_butt wrote:
    SilverDragonfan wrote:
    Zutar already lost the war so this is completely pointless!!!!!!!!!!!
    That's what i was about to say.

    Everyone has the right to Choose, even if they choose stupidly.

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  • Avatar of SgtHydra

    SgtHydra

    [52]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 03/26/07
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    horacus wrote:
    SgtHydra wrote:

    horacus wrote:
    The other was not enough?

    Mine is an evil laugh.

    Evil...evil?

    Yes... evil...

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  • Avatar of MarryLarry

    MarryLarry

    [53]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 06/16/07
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    To me, this show and many others are like a lap dance. I don't yell at the stripper, telling her what to do. I like to sit back, relax, and watch to see where it goes from there. What happens is entirely up to her.
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  • Avatar of horacus

    horacus

    [54]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 01/10/08
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    SgtHydra wrote:
    horacus wrote:
    SgtHydra wrote:

    horacus wrote:
    The other was not enough?

    Mine is an evil laugh.

    Evil...evil?

    Yes... evil...

    May god help us all...

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  • Avatar of Murellus

    Murellus

    [55]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 05/27/07
    • level: 9
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    horacus wrote:
    SgtHydra wrote:

    horacus wrote:
    The other was not enough?

    Mine is an evil laugh.

    Evil...evil?


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  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [56]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 01/14/08
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    SilverDragonfan wrote:
    Zutar already lost the war so this is completely pointless!!!!!!!!!!!
    Zutara lost a whole half a season ago and everybody knows it.
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  • Avatar of tvcrazy12

    tvcrazy12

    [57]Mar 22, 2008
    • member since: 06/28/07
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    MarryLarry wrote:
    To me, this show and many others are like a lap dance. I don't yell at the stripper, telling her what to do. I like to sit back, relax, and watch to see where it goes from there. What happens is entirely up to her.
    lmao, yet so true
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  • Avatar of Phyrra

    Phyrra

    [58]Mar 22, 2008
    • member since: 10/31/07
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    *drops link*

    http://youtube.com/view_play_list?p=F39F2EA6D2D74EE2 (If you're Zutarian and you haven't seen 'em, I suggest you get watching- Kataangers...this is what Zutara vision/mind looks like -not necessarily a bad thing-)

    Kataang is most likely to happen and probably will; If Zutara pulls a miracle, I think (IMO) the creators could put a lot of creativity and development (however, they had limited time).

    Zutaraang!

    Edited on 03/22/2008 9:53am
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  • Avatar of AllKnowingBeing

    AllKnowingBeing

    [59]Mar 22, 2008
    • member since: 03/09/08
    • level: 12
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    I am now shipping Kataang!

    "drop Kataang bomb"

    reaching.jpg picture by lafytaffygrli67

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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [60]Mar 22, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
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    • posts: 849

    Spacerac wrote:
    Zutara lost a whole half a season ago and everybody knows it.
    Katara and Aang never had a chance since the middle of the 13th episode.

    "I didn't see anything about love."

    Does that ring a bell?

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