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The New Official Kataang/Zutara Battlefield

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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [21]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
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    Spike815 wrote:
    Look, this whole Aunt Wu thing is pointless. She reads the future by reading cracks in a bone. His, quite literally, exploded into a million pieces. I don't think your going to get an accurate reading off that. Second, she said she didn't see any love in Aang's future, not that she there wouldn't be any. She also later admitted that the future is not set in stone. And Aang is a powerful bender, so is half of the cast, you can't prove or disprove anything through that statement. I can, however, point out that it was applied to Aang in that same episode, and Katara seemed to realize that.
    Normally, I wouldn't argue over something as silly as semantics. But the whole point behind Aunt Wu is that her semantics are meant to be taken exactly as they appear. That's what the point of the volcano was. Everyone, including Katara, heard her say that the volcano wouldn't destoy the town so they thought that it meant that the volcano wouldn't erupt.

    However, it did erupt. It just didn't destroy the town.

    Even if Wu thought that another bone would just blow up again, why not read his palm like with Katara? That's not going to blow up.

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  • Avatar of picaboomman

    picaboomman

    [22]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/04/08
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:

    Spike815 wrote:
    Look, this whole Aunt Wu thing is pointless. She reads the future by reading cracks in a bone. His, quite literally, exploded into a million pieces. I don't think your going to get an accurate reading off that. Second, she said she didn't see any love in Aang's future, not that she there wouldn't be any. She also later admitted that the future is not set in stone. And Aang is a powerful bender, so is half of the cast, you can't prove or disprove anything through that statement. I can, however, point out that it was applied to Aang in that same episode, and Katara seemed to realize that.
    Normally, I wouldn't argue over something as silly as semantics. But the whole point behind Aunt Wu is that her semantics are meant to be taken exactly as they appear. That's what the point of the volcano was. Everyone, including Katara, heard her say that the volcano wouldn't destoy the town so they thought that it meant that the volcano wouldn't erupt.

    However, it did erupt. It just didn't destroy the town.

    Even if Wu thought that another bone would just blow up again, why not read his palm like with Katara? That's not going to blow up.



    iroh and ozai are powerful benders
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  • Avatar of SilverDragonfan

    SilverDragonfan

    [23]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 01/30/08
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    but zuko isn't
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  • Avatar of Avatardandproud

    Avatardandproud

    [24]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 10/28/07
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    tvs_num1_fan wrote:
    hi bored. I'm tired

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  • Avatar of AllKnowingBeing

    AllKnowingBeing

    [25]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 03/09/08
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    Avatardandproud wrote:
    tvs_num1_fan wrote:
    hi bored. I'm tired
    Hi . I'm lol.

    OMG 555 the sign of the beasts brother.

    Edited on 03/20/2008 7:49pm
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  • Avatar of SgtHydra

    SgtHydra

    [26]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 03/26/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
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    *drops zutaraian nuke*

    *starts singing "Its the End of the World (and I feel fine)"*

    Tell me that link is not epic win.

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  • Avatar of horacus

    horacus

    [27]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 01/10/08
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    The other was not enough?
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  • Avatar of SgtHydra

    SgtHydra

    [28]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 03/26/07
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    • posts: 4,838

    horacus wrote:
    The other was not enough?

    Mine is an evil laugh.

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  • Avatar of waterbender6025

    waterbender6025

    [29]Mar 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/09/08
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:

    @waterbender

    1. DoBS: No smile after the kiss. That would have been the first time in the AtLA universe that two people who were in love didn't smile afterwards. They wouldn't break the formula.

    Cave: Let's kiss or we're stuck in here forever isn't love.

    2. Then why not have Aang learn about the Guru and the way to control the AS after he mastered fire bending? That way, they could make it so that he didn't have to give up Katara.

    3. I said that no one has been referred to as "very powerful bender". The point of me stating that was that it solves the riddle.

    Katara's fortune: husband=VERY powerful bender

    Aang's fortune: No love

    Sokka's statement: Aang= one/what a powerful bender.

    What all of us looked at was: [Husband = powerful bender = Aang] But [Aang = No love in future] which meant [Aang =/= Katara's husband = powerful bender = Aang]. That doesn't make sense.

    However, if one looks at it like this, it makes sense: [Aang = powerful bender] and [Aang = No love in future] [Husband = Very powerful bender =/= Aang]

    The battle at Ba Sing Se was for the Earth Kingdom. Aunt Wu specifically said that it would deside the fate of the entire world. Also, Zuko one upped Aang the last time they fought at CoD. So, if Aang is a powerful bender, that makes Zuko at least a powerful bender as well. Remember, I know Zuko has also yet to be called a very powerful bender, I'm just saying that this solves the inconsistency of the fortuneteller episode.

    the earth kingdom is pretty much the last standing in the world (the water tribes are pretty much gone) so the battle for ba sing se really affected the world because as the last stronghold left it represents the last ounce of hope. also the loss changed the invasion plan, with the earth kingdom armies they probably would have been able to succesfully hold the royal palace instead of running away. clearly you didnt address my point that aang died in CoD so she wouldnt have been able to see past all of that (i am hinting that the exploding bone represents azula's lighting strike), plus there has been no real evidence that neither katara or zuko harbour feelings for each other, its not just a one sided thing that katara will decide she likes zuko and not aang and end up marrying him. for zutara to happen all of these point would need to happen:

    1. katara completely reverses her hatred of zuko AND fall in love with him (something that is most likely impossible with only 8 episodes left)

    2. zuko has to completely break up with mai (who it clearly shows that he loves her) AND fall in love with katara, and considering he has never really shown any feelings towards her? good luck with that

    3. aang would have to renounce his feelings of katara AND fall in love with someone else (becasue they cant really have the main character alone at the end of the series)

    4. the writers would completely undo two and a half seasons of underlying plot in 8 eps, yeah coz THAT will happen

    how can you still say that zutara will happen? the most i can see more it is they become friends or katara hates him a little bit less at the end of the series. plus who could really see katara as the fire lady? mai is a much better candidate

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  • Avatar of MasterBender

    MasterBender

    [30]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 11/03/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:

    @MasteBender

    1. I've never argued that Katara doesn't hate Zuko for now. However, "In the middle of it"? They've been travelling together for like a year now. Face it, the kid is stuck in the friend zone.

    2. I would agree with you, if it wasn't for what was said in the show. I mean, did you miss it or something? The Guru asked Aang what attaches him the most to this world and he thought of Katara. That's pretty cut and dry. Plus, when he tried going into the AS at Ba Sing Se, he let her go and went super-saiyan. Katara is what he has to let go. There is no argument there.

    3. Ok, first of all, if it was the most powerful, why not say that? Second, it's not splitting hairs or clutching straws. Her predictions are worded so exactly that anything added or subtracted by opinions or assumptions makes it wrong. Third, as I said before, assuming that Aunt Wu only missed the love part of Aang's future and was in too much of a shock to think to have him throw another bone on the fire and she'd look for it that time, why not say that at the end of the episode? They'd been there for at least a day or two. She seemed pretty calm by the end and Aang reminding her about it would have triggered her to remember to have him try it again. She didn't see anything about love because she looked and it wasn't there.

    1. Well, if Aang was stuck in the friend zone, why doesn't Katara tell him that? Right now Katara is ambiguous. She didn't pull away from the kiss, but didn't know what to think after. I admit that there is no straight proof that Katara romantically loves Aang, but there is no proof she doesn't either.

    2. Ok, this may take a while...

    When I first saw CoD, I actually did fear for Kataang. But the way Season Three has unfolded disproved my fears. Allow me to explain why there is a counter-argument here:

    A. First, you have no proof that Ta-Min wasn't Roku's "attachment". Yet Kataangers have proof that Avatars can love and get married and master the AS.

    B. You argue that it isn't about love, it's about what attaches you to this world. As I said, if that was so, Appa would be Aang's attachment. You correctly point out that it isn't so, but that's part of my point. Appa wasn't Aang's attachment, so his attachment does have something to do with love.

    C. Here's the big one... Aang still loves Katara. If he let her go in CoD, and the act was permanent, there would be no Headband dance. No "Forever Girl" hallucination. No DoBS kiss. Care to explain why they happened?

    D. Aang's problem with the Avatar State is no longer that he has to let go of Katara. In DoBS, he states that Azula's lightning screwed up his seventh chakra, and he can't go into the Avatar State because of that.

    3. So, Sokka is the ultimate authority on bending and inadvertently qualifying people for fortunes now? And I'm pretty sure bone reading doesn't work that way. Either whatever bone you throw in always ends up the same, or only the first bone gets a good reading.

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  • Avatar of tomtitan

    tomtitan

    [31]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 03/01/07
    • level: 19
    • rank: Fall Guy
    • posts: 10,891
    if we're going to use aunt wu's 'powerful bender' prediction as a valid argument, then consider this:
    1. in every single fight between aang and zuko, who has won?
    2. who has mastered 2 elements in the space of 2 seasons, and is currently mastering a third?
    3. who was still struggling with basic firebending at the beginning of the series?
    4. who had mastered airbending at the age of 12?
    5. in short, who's a better bender? aang or zuko?
    i think you'll find that the answer's aang. therefore aang is the powerful bender that aunt wu refers to.

    it's pretty lame reasoning, but there's plenty more lame reasoning in your posts, believe me.
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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [32]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
    • level: 8
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    • posts: 849

    @Waterbender

    You just ignored all but one point of my post. I'm not going to take the time to respond to you when you ignore the other things I've said.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    @MasterBender

    1. She doesn't need to. To her, they've been friends and nothing more since day 1. That'd be completely unnecessary.

    2. A. We don't know what the other avatars had to give up. The 7th gate isn't about love. It's about attachment. The people that they married obviously weren't the attachment of those avatars. There is no evidence in the marriage of other avatars argument. Heck, according to "Stories Before Aang" the waterbending avatar became a full-fledged avatar long before he met his fiance.

    So what you guys need to prove is that Roku's attachment was his future wife.

    B. HIS attachment involves love. That's incidental. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ATTACHED THE OTHER AVATARS TO THIS WORLD.

    C. That would make sense, if he had gone all the way with the transformation. Remember, when Azula blasted him, the giant, glowing, space Aang was still in the process of giving him the power. He hadn't completed it.

    D. I think what he meant was, even if he wanted to, he couldn't go into the AS because of what Azula did. Plus, I doubt he'd admit that he can't do it because he doesn't want to give up Katara. Yeah, that wouldn't make her feel like crap.

    3. Ok, so she could have read his palm or something that doesn't explode.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    @tomtitan

    1. Actually, in a good number of them, Aang ran away before the fight was over.

    2-5. Who knocked who down during CoD by shooting a huge blast of fire that a bunch of green crystals failed to block? Last time they dueled, Zuko one-upped Aang. Give Aang all that other stuff, if you want. Zuko still topped him and that just shows what a very powerful bender Zuko is.

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  • Avatar of kamzts

    kamzts

    [33]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 02/15/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 239
    tvs_num1_fan wrote:
    tvcrazy12 wrote:
    waterbender6025 wrote:

    i figured we needed a new one seeing as how the other mysteriously vanished and the zutara/kataang arguements should be a seperate topic from official character relationship discussion thread. let the arguing begin.

    this is about where it was left off:

    wiseone_777 wrote:
    pure5gold wrote:
    Spike815 wrote:
    pure5gold wrote:
    I was such a hypocrite when it came to my ship (Zutara) because I though the Kataangers will like me if I said "Oh I like Zutara, but I know Kataang is going to happen because of all the moments they've had together". I cant believe I would let myself do that even though deep down I knew that Zutara will happen. Why? ONE MAIN reasons is because Katara's feelings towards Aang is completely motherly and as a close friend, NOTHING MORE! THE CREATORS ALWAYS PORTRAY THAT IN THE SHOW! If any one cant see that TRUTH then you are truly lost in your Katataangness (or whatever it is) just like AANG. I don't give a sh*t what any one thinks. I am not going to abandon my beliefs and thoughts just so others will like me. And all you Zutarians should do the same. Stand up for yourself, don't worry about what "they" think. Its your believes, so stick by them and you wont be disappointed. I know now more than ever that Zutara will happen and if others cant see it then we can't help them.

    BTW I am not trying to convert anyone. Just spilling out what I have been holding in.


    And Katara hates Zuko.

    No matter which ship you support Katara's feelings for one of them will have to change in some form. It seems far more likely that Katara's "motherly" relationship with Aang can change to one of mutual romance, than Katara forgiving Zuko, then befriending him, and THEN falling in love with him.

    You can't say your ship will happen, you have no realistic proof.


    I do have realistic proof. I KNOW Katara's feelings for Aang is motherly and as a close friend(CoD and DoBS proves it. If you don't know what I am talking about then I don't know what else to say). The creator's said that Katara will be with either Aang or Zuko. Since I am CERTAIN that Kataang is not going to happen. Then Zutara MUST happen. If A has to = B or C and we find out that A =/= B then A must = C.

    I have nothing more to say!
    2 words to say: Kataang KISSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????????

    kataang is like the classic romance. zutara is the opposites attact sort of thing. idc about either of them too much, because we all know kataang's gonna happen. fun to argue about though...


    thank you! i so agree. i would like zutara to win but it all reality it ain't. and i do like to argue about it. i'm a debating kind of person. it's in my blood.


    OMG!!!!!!!!!!! A smart Zutarian who admitted zutara isnt ging to happen This is a dream come true!!!!!
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  • Avatar of kamzts

    kamzts

    [34]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 02/15/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
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    1- The CoD was not a zutara moment!!!! That was Katara feeling bad for him which she actually says that in the WAT and It was also Katara trying to trust Zuko there was no love. That look when she left the cave was "I hope he makes the right decision" I was watching the audio commentary for that episode and they sadi nothing about love they said that Katara likes to try and think the best of somebody wether they're good or bad and that sometimes gets her into trouble.

    2- In the cave of 2 lovers they were holding hands after they kissed (I dont know if they kissed or not) That wasnt a need to do to survive thing.

    3- the Aunt Wu thing is annoying. Aunt Wu said that he can make his own destiny and create his own future. Katara even comsidered for a moment that Aang was the powerful bender she was to fall in love with and marry. That could have been forshadowing right there.

    4- In the HB katara was pretty jealous when aang wsa dancing with Onji thats makes me think she might have feelings for Aang. Also In the DoBs she didnt pull away she stayed there and kissed him back she didnt smile because she was worried for him I wouldnt smile if the person who just kissed me (and maybe I loved) flew away to face somebody and maybe die.

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  • Avatar of MasterBender

    MasterBender

    [35]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 11/03/06
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 322

    daveshanFromGMU wrote:

    @MasterBender

    1. She doesn't need to. To her, they've been friends and nothing more since day 1. That'd be completely unnecessary.

    2. A. We don't know what the other avatars had to give up. The 7th gate isn't about love. It's about attachment. The people that they married obviously weren't the attachment of those avatars. There is no evidence in the marriage of other avatars argument. Heck, according to "Stories Before Aang" the waterbending avatar became a full-fledged avatar long before he met his fiance.

    So what you guys need to prove is that Roku's attachment was his future wife.

    B. HIS attachment involves love. That's incidental. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ATTACHED THE OTHER AVATARS TO THIS WORLD.

    C. That would make sense, if he had gone all the way with the transformation. Remember, when Azula blasted him, the giant, glowing, space Aang was still in the process of giving him the power. He hadn't completed it.

    D. I think what he meant was, even if he wanted to, he couldn't go into the AS because of what Azula did. Plus, I doubt he'd admit that he can't do it because he doesn't want to give up Katara. Yeah, that wouldn't make her feel like crap.

    3. Ok, so she could have read his palm or something that doesn't explode.

    1. I think it would be necessary since he kissed her.

    But we can never really resolve this issue until the series ends. The fact is we're not mind-readers, neither of Katara nor of Mike and Brian.

    2. I know we don't know what the other Avatar's attachments were. But part of my point is that Avatars can love and still control the AS. Allow me to illustrate my reasoning.

    Premises:

    Aang needs to let go of his attachment. Katara is his attachment. Appa is more important to Aang than Katara. Yet Appa is not Aang's attachment. What Katara has over Appa is Aang's romantic love.

    Conclusion:

    The "attachment" that blocks the Seventh Chakra is caused by love.

    New Premises:

    The "attachment" that blocks the Seventh Chakra is caused by love. Aang loves Katara. Yet Roku states that being the Avatar doesn't hurt your chances with the ladies, and was able to control the AS and have a wife.

    New Conclusion:

    The "letting go of attachments" to control the AS is not permanent. Aang can love Katara but still control the Avatar State.

    3. I don't know. All I know is that Aunt Wu didn't explicitly say "you have no romance in your future", and that the future is not set in stone.

    All this stuff is just highlighting why Kataang hasn't come to fruition yet. Can you supply some evidence for Zutara now?

    (BTW, the Chakras are never described as "Gates"- are you confusing Avatar with Naruto?)

    Edited on 03/21/2008 9:45am
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of kamzts

    kamzts

    [36]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 02/15/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 239
    I know this off topic but how do you make a signature?
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  • Avatar of AllKnowingBeing

    AllKnowingBeing

    [37]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 03/09/08
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,113
    kamzts wrote:
    I know this off topic but how do you make a signature?
    If you want someone to make one for you go here:Link
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  • Avatar of kamzts

    kamzts

    [38]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 02/15/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 239
    AllKnowingBeing wrote:
    kamzts wrote:
    I know this off topic but how do you make a signature?
    If you want someone to make one for you go here:Link


    Why cant I make my own?
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  • Avatar of AllKnowingBeing

    AllKnowingBeing

    [39]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 03/09/08
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,113
    kamzts wrote:
    AllKnowingBeing wrote:
    kamzts wrote:
    I know this off topic but how do you make a signature?
    If you want someone to make one for you go here:Link
    Why cant I make my own?
    Cause it takes for ever to do. Let teenagefanatic or snowprincess do it.
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  • Avatar of Murellus

    Murellus

    [40]Mar 21, 2008
    • member since: 05/27/07
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 1,589

    Zutara = Facepalm

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