We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Official Avatar Historical Comparisons Thread

  • Avatar of HopeHime4

    HopeHime4

    [141]Aug 9, 2008
    • member since: 07/18/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 226
    Axrendale wrote:
    Just a reminder: The Shi Huang Di documentary will be airing on the History Channel tonight at 9:00 pm. I advise anyone with some spare time on their hands to watch it; it really was fascinating, and contained more avatar parallels than you could poke a stick at.

    I'm probably gonna have to tape it and watch it later. I've been really busy, and school starts on Monday for me, so I don't think I'll be able to watch a 3-hour documentary. But I still want to see it, so I probably won't watch it until next week.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WanShi-Tong

    WanShi-Tong

    [142]Aug 9, 2008
    • member since: 07/24/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 7

    I put this as an allusion for Avatar Day but it fits even better in this thread. There was a show about the first emperor of China that led me to this connection.

    Chin the great is almost an exact historical reference to the first emperor of China. Pronounced almost the same but spelled Qin. His full name was Qin Shi Huang and he was the first to unify all of the Chinese kindgoms like Chin was attempting to do in the avatar world.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [143]Aug 9, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    WanShi-Tong wrote:

    I put this as an allusion for Avatar Day but it fits even better in this thread. There was a show about the first emperor of China that led me to this connection.

    Chin the great is almost an exact historical reference to the first emperor of China. Pronounced almost the same but spelled Qin. His full name was Qin Shi Huang and he was the first to unify all of the Chinese kindgoms like Chin was attempting to do in the avatar world.

    Actually, this thread has already come to the conclusion that the Avatar character Qin Shi Huang Di paralles best is Azula. Seriously, a lot of the events in their lives, not to mention their characterisitcs, are a perfect match.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [144]Aug 9, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    Axrendale wrote:
    WanShi-Tong wrote:

    I put this as an allusion for Avatar Day but it fits even better in this thread. There was a show about the first emperor of China that led me to this connection.

    Chin the great is almost an exact historical reference to the first emperor of China. Pronounced almost the same but spelled Qin. His full name was Qin Shi Huang and he was the first to unify all of the Chinese kindgoms like Chin was attempting to do in the avatar world.

    Actually, this thread has already come to the conclusion that the Avatar character Qin Shi Huang Di paralles best is Azula. Seriously, a lot of the events in their lives, not to mention their characterisitcs, are a perfect match.

    EDIT:

    Here's my original post from page four:

    Shi Huang Di: the the greatest and maddest emperor of China:

    Emperor Shi Huang Di is beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most controversial figures of Chinese history.

    At the time of his birth the country of China was divided into number of different nations, all of which were under attack by Qin, the most powerful of all the countries, and Shi Huang Di's birthplace. The war between Qin and the other nations had at this point been raging for centuries. For years, the Kings of Qin had been trying to make use of their superior numbers and war technology to conquer the other nations, but for years those other nations had held out through sheer will, and had managed to remain independent. It would be Shi Huang Di who put an end to that Independence.

    When he was born though, he did not seem likely to ever be of any importance. His father was a prince, but being one of the younger sons had small chance of taking the throne. Against the odds, he did become King eventually, after numerous schemes and a lot of luck had eliminated his older brothers and his father had died under mysterious circumstances. The new King had several sons, but he favored Shi Huang Di because he was the smartest, and more importantly, the most ruthless. Over the next few years, the other sons would be variously banished or killed, leaving Shi Huang Di as the crown prince.

    Once he had become King himself, Shi soon set about conquering the nations that for years had resisted his ancestors. Showing no regard at all for the traditional rules of warfare, he had soon defeated his opponents through a combination of trickery and military might. Incredibly charismatic, he possesed the ability to talk some of his fiercest foes onto his side. In addition to being a brilliant general and tactician, he was no stranger to personal combat, and was known to kill heavily armed opponents with his bare hands.

    Having conquered the other nations, he declared himself to be the Emperor of China (developed from the name "Qin"). A brilliant but astonishingly cruel ruler, he transformed what had previously been a collection of squabbling provinces into a centralized empire, rounding off his achievements by building the Great Wall of China. Anyone who opposed him was ruthlessly executed, no matter their former standing. A Legalist philosopher, he was a firm opponent of Confucianism, and all other such philosophies.

    Everything seemed to be going perfectly for him, until he was betrayed by a man who had once been a very close friend of his. Worse, the man had tried to assasinate him. Shi Huang Di was shattered by this betrayal, and soon after began to descend into maddness. Overcome by paranoia that everyone was capable of betraying him, he banished all of his servants and close friends, allowing no one to approach him. When it was absolutley necessary that he talk to someone, the only way that he could feel safe was by lighting a large fire in front of his throne, so that anyone trying to kill him would have to come through the flames.

    His enemies hoped that he might be vulnerable in his maddness, but were soon proved wrong. Shi came out of his maddness long enough to take command of his armies again and crush the invasion, but as soon as he had done so slipped back into insanity and died shortly afterwards, unable to live with the pressure of the life he had created for himself.

    One other thing about Shi Huang Di was unusual; all of his ancestors had maintained a tradition of having the symbolic colour of the element fire as the royal color. Shi Huang Di, on the other hand, preferred the symbolic color of water as his royal color, for reasons unknown.

    It really shouldn't be hard to figue out which Avatar charcater I think corresponds to Shi Huang Di.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [145]Aug 9, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    Axrendale wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    WanShi-Tong wrote:

    I put this as an allusion for Avatar Day but it fits even better in this thread. There was a show about the first emperor of China that led me to this connection.

    Chin the great is almost an exact historical reference to the first emperor of China. Pronounced almost the same but spelled Qin. His full name was Qin Shi Huang and he was the first to unify all of the Chinese kindgoms like Chin was attempting to do in the avatar world.

    Actually, this thread has already come to the conclusion that the Avatar character Qin Shi Huang Di paralles best is Azula. Seriously, a lot of the events in their lives, not to mention their characterisitcs, are a perfect match.

    EDIT:

    Here's my original post from page four:

    Shi Huang Di: the the greatest and maddest emperor of China:

    Emperor Shi Huang Di is beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most controversial figures of Chinese history.

    At the time of his birth the country of China was divided into number of different nations, all of which were under attack by Qin, the most powerful of all the countries, and Shi Huang Di's birthplace. The war between Qin and the other nations had at this point been raging for centuries. For years, the Kings of Qin had been trying to make use of their superior numbers and war technology to conquer the other nations, but for years those other nations had held out through sheer will, and had managed to remain independent. It would be Shi Huang Di who put an end to that Independence.

    When he was born though, he did not seem likely to ever be of any importance. His father was a prince, but being one of the younger sons had small chance of taking the throne. Against the odds, he did become King eventually, after numerous schemes and a lot of luck had eliminated his older brothers and his father had died under mysterious circumstances. The new King had several sons, but he favored Shi Huang Di because he was the smartest, and more importantly, the most ruthless. Over the next few years, the other sons would be variously banished or killed, leaving Shi Huang Di as the crown prince.

    Once he had become King himself, Shi soon set about conquering the nations that for years had resisted his ancestors. Showing no regard at all for the traditional rules of warfare, he had soon defeated his opponents through a combination of trickery and military might. Incredibly charismatic, he possesed the ability to talk some of his fiercest foes onto his side. In addition to being a brilliant general and tactician, he was no stranger to personal combat, and was known to kill heavily armed opponents with his bare hands.

    Having conquered the other nations, he declared himself to be the Emperor of China (developed from the name "Qin"). A brilliant but astonishingly cruel ruler, he transformed what had previously been a collection of squabbling provinces into a centralized empire, rounding off his achievements by building the Great Wall of China. Anyone who opposed him was ruthlessly executed, no matter their former standing. A Legalist philosopher, he was a firm opponent of Confucianism, and all other such philosophies.

    Everything seemed to be going perfectly for him, until he was betrayed by a man who had once been a very close friend of his. Worse, the man had tried to assasinate him. Shi Huang Di was shattered by this betrayal, and soon after began to descend into maddness. Overcome by paranoia that everyone was capable of betraying him, he banished all of his servants and close friends, allowing no one to approach him. When it was absolutley necessary that he talk to someone, the only way that he could feel safe was by lighting a large fire in front of his throne, so that anyone trying to kill him would have to come through the flames.

    His enemies hoped that he might be vulnerable in his maddness, but were soon proved wrong. Shi came out of his maddness long enough to take command of his armies again and crush the invasion, but as soon as he had done so slipped back into insanity and died shortly afterwards, unable to live with the pressure of the life he had created for himself.

    One other thing about Shi Huang Di was unusual; all of his ancestors had maintained a tradition of having the symbolic colour of the element fire as the royal color. Shi Huang Di, on the other hand, preferred the symbolic color of water as his royal color, for reasons unknown.

    It really shouldn't be hard to figue out which Avatar charcater I think corresponds to Shi Huang Di.

    EDIT: And here's what I wrote after watching the documentary:

    Time to do that commentary I said I'd do on the Shi Huang Di documentary.

    After watching this, I am now convinced that I was wrong about Avatar being based on the 100 Years war. Instead, I am convinced that the war in Avatar was actually based on the Warring States Period of China.

    I also learned a lot about Shi Huang Di himself that still manages to correspond to Azula. For example:

    -He had a terrible relationship with his mother. Shi Huang Di loved his mother dearly, and wanted the same from her. Unfortunately, his mother thought that her son was a monster for having laid waste to China, and publicly defied him, culminating in assisting an outright rebellion against him. Shi was furious, but could not bring himself to kill his mother, and instead had her banished. After being betrayed by his mother, Shi swore that he would never trust or love anyone ever again; from that point on ruthless manipulation and domination, and fear would be his choices as tools for making sure people remained loyal to him.

    -After he was betrayed by a close friend and his sanity began to slip, his personal appearance began to slip too. Banishing servants left right and center, Shi was reduced to stalking the halls of his palace, hair dishevelled, tormented by hallucinations of people he had once known and imagined threats of assassination.

    There were a number of familiar names in the Warring States period war; the most striking being the state of Zhao, whose aggressive leadership exhibited many of the traits of the ambitious admiral that we all knew and loved.

    The state of Qin was so much like the Fire Nation that it wasn't funny; right down to almost everyone wearing red and black. The capital city wasn't located in a Volcano, but it was in a mountainous area, and was fairly small, consisting of the palaces where the Emperor and his nobles lived, along with their servants and an army of elite red armoured soldiers. Incidently, according to the documenatry, the soldiers of Qin went through training even more intense, and were even more effective in combat than the warriors of Sparta (blasphemy, maddness!).

    And just to make it absolutley perfect, in the year that Shi Hunag Di died and his reign finally came to an end, a great comet was seen in the skys, taken to be an omen from the heavens.

    Seriously, this was worth watching.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of WanShi-Tong

    WanShi-Tong

    [146]Aug 9, 2008
    • member since: 07/24/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 7
    Wow you looked into it a lot more than I did. I just noticed the names and conquering part I saw the Zhao part too.
    Edited on 08/09/2008 1:42pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [147]Aug 10, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    Watched the documentary again. Looks like discussion of it will probably have to wait until Monday, when everyone's back from weekend trips, and those who taped it have watched it. Or perhaps tommorow.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [148]Aug 11, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    I can't wait to watch. It pains me to wait, but it's just not a good time to start something that's three hours long.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [149]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    I just watched the documentary on Shi Huang Di. It really was interesting, and I don't think it paralleled just Azula. Here are some parallels to the show:

    1. Shi Huang Di was very focused and conquering all 7 states of presently known China. What I found interesting was that he wanted to make a united nation, something very similar to what Ozai was aiming for. 2. Shi Huang Di tried to take over Chu (I think that was the name), the largest state appart from Qin, Shi Huang Di's own territory. Chu was supposed to be the most difficult. It reminded me slightly of the Earth Kingdom. Qin's first attempt at overthrowing it failed, which was also true about Ba Sing Sei. The second attempt, however, was a victory, also true about Ba Sing Sei. It was a major victory and basically sealed the deal on the war, which is also true with the Fire Nation's victory over Ba Sing Sei.

    3. Comet's were considered bad luck, which I found VERY interesting. Apparently, when it appeared, it was a bad omen against Shi Huang Di's rule and showed that the God's were against him. It reminded me slightly of Sozin's Comet in the fact that it was also around when Ozai was brought down. I'm kind of making connections where their are none, but the comet thing interested me.

    4. The scholars wore very similar outfits to the Fire Sages. Both of them were banished by Azula/Shi Huang Di.

    5. Shi Huang Di, toward his last few years of life, became psychotic and let his appearance slip. His hair was always out of place. It reminded me of Azula's final looks. 6. Shi Huang Di brought upon his own death by being too greedy and drinking an "immortality" potion that contained large quantities of mercury. He developed a series disease from it that resulted in death. Azula also brought upon her own "death" in a sense. Her greed to single handedly defeat Zuko in the last Agni Kai wasn't necessary. She could've easily ordered the Sages to kill Zuko. Instead, she decided to make things a bit more interesting. She could've easily won, such as Shi Huang Di could've easily lived. They both got greedy and that was their downfall.

    Axrendale touched upon most of the more important points. But, I must admit, that documentary was very interesting and I suggest anyone who's interested in history watch it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SalKing2

    SalKing2

    [150]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 11/14/06
    • level: 37
    • rank: Cylon
    • posts: 1,323
    Wow! I never knew Shi Huangdi and Azula had so many similarities. I wonder if this is a coincidence or if the creators actually based her character on Shi Huangdi's. I've really got to praise Axrendale for creating such an interesting thread. I just love history. I really want to watch the documentary, but its three hours long and summer work is just too much....
    Edited on 08/15/2008 1:40pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [151]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    Yeah, I finally found time to watch it. It's really great. If you appreciate this kind of stuff then it's well worth the three hours.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [152]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Yeah, I finally found time to watch it. It's really great. If you appreciate this kind of stuff then it's well worth the three hours.


    what in the world is the doccumentary
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [153]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    libraman_92 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Yeah, I finally found time to watch it. It's really great. If you appreciate this kind of stuff then it's well worth the three hours.


    what in the world is the doccumentary

    It was a documentary on the History channel about the first chinese emperor Shi Huang Di. He greatly parallels Azula and other things relating to Avatar. It's pretty cool.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [154]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Yeah, I finally found time to watch it. It's really great. If you appreciate this kind of stuff then it's well worth the three hours.


    what in the world is the doccumentary

    It was a documentary on the History channel about the first chinese emperor Shi Huang Di. He greatly parallels Azula and other things relating to Avatar. It's pretty cool.


    oh. too bad i missed it
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [155]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    libraman_92 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Yeah, I finally found time to watch it. It's really great. If you appreciate this kind of stuff then it's well worth the three hours.


    what in the world is the doccumentary

    It was a documentary on the History channel about the first chinese emperor Shi Huang Di. He greatly parallels Azula and other things relating to Avatar. It's pretty cool.


    oh. too bad i missed it

    It reairs from time to time. Axrendale knows more about it. My neighbor recorded it for me.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [156]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Yeah, I finally found time to watch it. It's really great. If you appreciate this kind of stuff then it's well worth the three hours.


    what in the world is the doccumentary

    It was a documentary on the History channel about the first chinese emperor Shi Huang Di. He greatly parallels Azula and other things relating to Avatar. It's pretty cool.


    oh. too bad i missed it

    It reairs from time to time. Axrendale knows more about it. My neighbor recorded it for me.


    that was nice of him.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [157]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 6,106
    I know. I was so thankful. But, anyway, maybe check on the History channel's official website for the next airing time. I've got it!

    Here it is.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [158]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    I know. I was so thankful. But, anyway, maybe check on the History channel's official website for the next airing time. I've got it!

    Here it is.


    k. saw it.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [159]Aug 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    I know. I was so thankful. But, anyway, maybe check on the History channel's official website for the next airing time. I've got it! Here it is.

    Thanks, I may actually watch it again.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of libraman_92

    libraman_92

    [160]Aug 16, 2008
    • member since: 08/27/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,972
    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    I know. I was so thankful. But, anyway, maybe check on the History channel's official website for the next airing time. I've got it! Here it is.

    Thanks, I may actually watch it again.



    but axrendale, according to isabel u've already understood it to the highest extent
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.