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Official Avatar Historical Comparisons Thread

  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [81]Aug 4, 2008
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    On the subject of Shi Huang Di, he is featured in the new "Mummy" movie - "The Tomb of the Dragon Emperor" that was released fairly recently. It will most likely be as corny as the other two Mummy movies, but I will go just because I know that the main bad guy was in real history quite similar to Azula.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [82]Aug 4, 2008
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    To try and kick some life back into this thread, I would like to point out that modelling the Sun Warriors in the Firebending Masters after the Aztecs was a very accurate choice, as the Aztecs worshipped the sun as their primary god. Also notable is the fact that Japan, regarded by many as an influence on the Fire Nation, was in history often known as the "Land of the Rising Sun", due to its location to the east of China.
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    Axrendale

    [83]Aug 4, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    Shi Huang Di: the the greatest and maddest emperor of China:

    Emperor Shi Huang Di is beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most controversial figures of Chinese history.

    At the time of his birth the country of China was divided into number of different nations, all of which were under attack by Qin, the most powerful of all the countries, and Shi Huang Di's birthplace. The war between Qin and the other nations had at this point been raging for centuries. For years, the Kings of Qin had been trying to make use of their superior numbers and war technology to conquer the other nations, but for years those other nations had held out through sheer will, and had managed to remain independent. It would be Shi Huang Di who put an end to that Independence.

    When he was born though, he did not seem likely to ever be of any importance. His father was a prince, but being one of the younger sons had small chance of taking the throne. Against the odds, he did become King eventually, after numerous schemes and a lot of luck had eliminated his older brothers and his father had died under mysterious circumstances. The new King had several sons, but he favored Shi Huang Di because he was the smartest, and more importantly, the most ruthless. Over the next few years, the other sons would be variously banished or killed, leaving Shi Huang Di as the crown prince.

    Once he had become King himself, Shi soon set about conquering the nations that for years had resisted his ancestors. Showing no regard at all for the traditional rules of warfare, he had soon defeated his opponents through a combination of trickery and military might. Incredibly charismatic, he possesed the ability to talk some of his fiercest foes onto his side. In addition to being a brilliant general and tactician, he was no stranger to personal combat, and was known to kill heavily armed opponents with his bare hands.

    Having conquered the other nations, he declared himself to be the Emperor of China (developed from the name "Qin"). A brilliant but astonishingly cruel ruler, he transformed what had previously been a collection of squabbling provinces into a centralized empire, rounding off his achievements by building the Great Wall of China. Anyone who opposed him was ruthlessly executed, no matter their former standing. A Legalist philosopher, he was a firm opponent of Confucianism, and all other such philosophies.

    Everything seemed to be going perfectly for him, until he was betrayed by a man who had once been a very close friend of his. Worse, the man had tried to assasinate him. Shi Huang Di was shattered by this betrayal, and soon after began to descend into maddness. Overcome by paranoia that everyone was capable of betraying him, he banished all of his servants and close friends, allowing no one to approach him. When it was absolutley necessary that he talk to someone, the only way that he could feel safe was by lighting a large fire in front of his throne, so that anyone trying to kill him would have to come through the flames.

    His enemies hoped that he might be vulnerable in his maddness, but were soon proved wrong. Shi came out of his maddness long enough to take command of his armies again and crush the invasion, but as soon as he had done so slipped back into insanity and died shortly afterwards, unable to live with the pressure of the life he had created for himself.

    One other thing about Shi Huang Di was unusual; all of his ancestors had maintained a tradition of having the symbolic colour of the element fire as the royal color. Shi Huang Di, on the other hand, preferred the symbolic color of water as his royal color, for reasons unknown.

    It really shouldn't be hard to figue out which Avatar charcater I think corresponds to Shi Huang Di.

    EDIT:

    As if there needed to be further comparisons between Azula and Shi Huang Di, it should be noted that they both started their careers at a similar age; Shi Huang Di was only 13 when he became King and a dominant force in the Royal court, one year younger than Azula when she set out to capture her brother and uncle, kill the Avatar, and conquer the Earth Kingdom. Even at this young age Shi, like Azula, was already a master of the art of manipulation and domination of the people around him.

    Edited on 08/05/2008 3:41pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [86]Aug 4, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    To try and kick some life back into this thread, I would like to point out that modelling the Sun Warriors in the Firebending Masters after the Aztecs was a very accurate choice, as the Aztecs worshipped the sun as their primary god. Also notable is the fact that Japan, regarded by many as an influence on the Fire Nation, was in history often known as the "Land of the Rising Sun", due to its location to the east of China.

    I agree about the Aztecs. It was a very wise choice. It gave the watchers something to relate to so Bryke could include more about the Sun Warriors without wasting precious air time.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [87]Aug 4, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    Shi Huang Di: the the greatest and maddest emperor of China:

    Emperor Shi Huang Di is beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most controversial figures of Chinese history.

    At the time of his birth the country of China was divided into number of different nations, all of which were under attack by Qin, the most powerful of all the countries, and Shi Huang Di's birthplace. The war between Qin and the other nations had at this point been raging for centuries. For years, the Kings of Qin had been trying to make use of their superior numbers and war technology to conquer the other nations, but for years those other nations had held out through sheer will, and had managed to remain independent. It would be Shi Huang Di who put an end to that Independence.

    When he was born though, he did not seem likely to ever be of any importance. His father was a prince, but being one of the younger sons had small chance of taking the throne. Against the odds, he did become King eventually, after numerous schemes and a lot of luck had eliminated his older brothers and his father had died under mysterious circumstances. The new King had several sons, but he favored Shi Huang Di because he was the smartest, and more importantly, the most ruthless. Over the next few years, the other sons would be variously banished or killed, leaving Shi Huang Di as the crown prince.

    Once he had become King himself, Shi soon set about conquering the nations that for years had resisted his ancestors. Showing no regard at all for the traditional rules of warfare, he had soon defeated his opponents through a combination of trickery and military might. Incredibly charismatic, he possesed the ability to talk some of his fiercest foes onto his side. In addition to being a brilliant general and tactician, he was no stranger to personal combat, and was known to kill heavily armed opponents with his bare hands.

    Having conquered the other nations, he declared himself to be the Emperor of China (developed from the name "Qin"). A brilliant but astonishingly cruel ruler, he transformed what had previously been a collection of squabbling provinces into a centralized empire, rounding off his achievements by building the Great Wall of China. Anyone who opposed him was ruthlessly executed, no matter their former standing. A Legalist philosopher, he was a firm opponent of Confucianism, and all other such philosophies.

    Everything seemed to be going perfectly for him, until he was betrayed by a man who had once been a very close friend of his. Worse, the man had tried to assasinate him, and had then escaped. Shi Huang Di was shattered by this betrayal, and soon after began to descend into maddness. Overcome by paranoia that everyone was capable of betraying him, he banished all of servants and close friends, allowing no one to approach him. When it was absolutley necessary that he talk to someone, the only way that he could feel safe was by lighting a large fire in front of his throne, so that anyone trying to kill him would have to come through the flames.

    His enemies hoped that he might be vulnerable in his maddness, but were soon proved wrong. Shi came out of his maddness long enough to take command of his armies again and crush the invasion, but as soon as he had done so slipped back into insanity and died shortly afterwards, unable to live with the pressure of the life he had created for himself.

    One other thing about Shi Huang Di was unusual; all of his ancestors had maintained a tradition of having the symbolic colour of the element fire as the royal color. Shi Huang Di, on the other hand, preferred the symbolic color of water as his royal color, for reasons unknown.

    It really shouldn't be hard to figue out which Avatar charcater I think corresponds to Shi Huang Di.


    \That was a ridic. good comparison. Wow. That is exactly EXACTLY like Azula. EXACTLY. It's hard to believe they didn't base Azula off of this character.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [88]Aug 4, 2008
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    I want to keep this thread alive. I'm trying to think of something historical that relates to the show. Hm... GAH! This is so hard. Someone help me out. This thread is so great, I love it.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [89]Aug 5, 2008
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    I just watched the Shi Huang Di documentary, and I was astounded. I never thought that a tv documentary would be capable of reigniting my Avatar fandom to a certain point, but this one did. I'm kind of tired now, so I'll post more about it tommorow; but before I go I'll say this: anyone who has some interst in the character of Azula - you should watch this. It is going to be on again next saturday at 9pm. I truly feel that my understanding of Azula's character was deepened by this documenatry. It's also very interesting, and tells you a lot about Chinese history.
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    isabelwhatx

    [90]Aug 5, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    I just watched the Shi Huang Di documentary, and I was astounded. I never thought that a tv documentary would be capable of reigniting my Avatar fandom to a certain point, but this one did. I'm kind of tired now, so I'll post more about it tommorow; but before I go I'll say this: anyone who has some interst in the character of Azula - you should watch this. It is going to be on again next saturday at 9pm. I truly feel that my understanding of Azula's character was deepened by this documenatry. It's also very interesting, and tells you a lot about Chinese history.

    Where can I find it? I'd love to read more about it.
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    Axrendale

    [91]Aug 5, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    I just watched the Shi Huang Di documentary, and I was astounded. I never thought that a tv documentary would be capable of reigniting my Avatar fandom to a certain point, but this one did. I'm kind of tired now, so I'll post more about it tommorow; but before I go I'll say this: anyone who has some interst in the character of Azula - you should watch this. It is going to be on again next saturday at 9pm. I truly feel that my understanding of Azula's character was deepened by this documenatry. It's also very interesting, and tells you a lot about Chinese history.
    Where can I find it? I'd love to read more about it.

    It is a three hour long documentary that will be re-airing on the History Channel on Saturday, August 9th, at 9:00 pm.

    If you don't get to watch it, don't worry - I suspect that Jackson and I will be bombarding this thread tommorow with discussion of it.

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    Jackson5050

    [92]Aug 5, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    To try and kick some life back into this thread, I would like to point out that modelling the Sun Warriors in the Firebending Masters after the Aztecs was a very accurate choice, as the Aztecs worshipped the sun as their primary god. Also notable is the fact that Japan, regarded by many as an influence on the Fire Nation, was in history often known as the "Land of the Rising Sun", due to its location to the east of China.
    I wonder if the Sun Warriors also practiced human scarifice? Maybe they sacrifice people to the masters Ran and Shao? It is a cartoon, but it would be an interesting topic to explore.
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    Axrendale

    [93]Aug 5, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    To try and kick some life back into this thread, I would like to point out that modelling the Sun Warriors in the Firebending Masters after the Aztecs was a very accurate choice, as the Aztecs worshipped the sun as their primary god. Also notable is the fact that Japan, regarded by many as an influence on the Fire Nation, was in history often known as the "Land of the Rising Sun", due to its location to the east of China.
    I wonder if the Sun Warriors also practiced human scarifice? Maybe they sacrifice people to the masters Ran and Shao? It is a cartoon, but it would be an interesting topic to explore.

    I see where you're coming from. I don't think he was ever named, but remember that nasty Sun Warrior, the one who wanted Aang and Zuko to die? From his line; "*evil snicker* This is it; dinner from the masters", it was not the first time he'd seen people eaten by the dragons, and he was looking forward to it.

    Edited on 08/05/2008 3:43pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [94]Aug 5, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    I just watched the Shi Huang Di documentary, and I was astounded. I never thought that a tv documentary would be capable of reigniting my Avatar fandom to a certain point, but this one did. I'm kind of tired now, so I'll post more about it tommorow; but before I go I'll say this: anyone who has some interst in the character of Azula - you should watch this. It is going to be on again next saturday at 9pm. I truly feel that my understanding of Azula's character was deepened by this documenatry. It's also very interesting, and tells you a lot about Chinese history.
    Where can I find it? I'd love to read more about it.

    It is a three hour long documentary that will be re-airing on the History Channel on Saturday, August 9th, at 9:00 pm.

    If you don't get to watch it, don't worry - I suspect that Jackson and I will be bombarding this thread tommorow with discussion of it.


    I'll try and remember. It sounds very, very cool. Ten bucks says I'll forget anyway *sigh*
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    isabelwhatx

    [95]Aug 5, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    To try and kick some life back into this thread, I would like to point out that modelling the Sun Warriors in the Firebending Masters after the Aztecs was a very accurate choice, as the Aztecs worshipped the sun as their primary god. Also notable is the fact that Japan, regarded by many as an influence on the Fire Nation, was in history often known as the "Land of the Rising Sun", due to its location to the east of China.
    I wonder if the Sun Warriors also practiced human scarifice? Maybe they sacrifice people to the masters Ran and Shao? It is a cartoon, but it would be an interesting topic to explore.

    The Aztecs were known for their immense amount of human sacrifice. It's believed they sacrificed more than 80,000 people in just four days (prisoners). And they BRAGGED about it. They did sacrifice to gods, but not just two. It was four, actually. Huitzilopochtli, one of the gods, was actually associated with the sun. He was also associated with warfare *hint hint Fire Nation hint hint*. Huehueteotl was also a fire god. Tezcatlipoca was a god of the night and destiny. What I find interesting about him is that he can forgive wrong doings. It reminded me of the way that the Sun Warriors acted towards the dragons. They tested people. Those three gods out of the four are either related to the dragons or the fire nation. I found that interesting.
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    Axrendale

    [96]Aug 5, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    To try and kick some life back into this thread, I would like to point out that modelling the Sun Warriors in the Firebending Masters after the Aztecs was a very accurate choice, as the Aztecs worshipped the sun as their primary god. Also notable is the fact that Japan, regarded by many as an influence on the Fire Nation, was in history often known as the "Land of the Rising Sun", due to its location to the east of China.
    I wonder if the Sun Warriors also practiced human scarifice? Maybe they sacrifice people to the masters Ran and Shao? It is a cartoon, but it would be an interesting topic to explore.
    The Aztecs were known for their immense amount of human sacrifice. It's believed they sacrificed more than 80,000 people in just four days (prisoners). And they BRAGGED about it. They did sacrifice to gods, but not just two. It was four, actually. Huitzilopochtli, one of the gods, was actually associated with the sun. He was also associated with warfare *hint hint Fire Nation hint hint*. Huehueteotl was also a fire god. Tezcatlipoca was a god of the night and destiny. What I find interesting about him is that he can forgive wrong doings. It reminded me of the way that the Sun Warriors acted towards the dragons. They tested people. Those three gods out of the four are either related to the dragons or the fire nation. I found that interesting.

    Wow. That is a really good comparison. I think it is now a definite that Bryke based the Sun Warriors off the Aztecs.

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    isabelwhatx

    [97]Aug 5, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    To try and kick some life back into this thread, I would like to point out that modelling the Sun Warriors in the Firebending Masters after the Aztecs was a very accurate choice, as the Aztecs worshipped the sun as their primary god. Also notable is the fact that Japan, regarded by many as an influence on the Fire Nation, was in history often known as the "Land of the Rising Sun", due to its location to the east of China.
    I wonder if the Sun Warriors also practiced human scarifice? Maybe they sacrifice people to the masters Ran and Shao? It is a cartoon, but it would be an interesting topic to explore.
    The Aztecs were known for their immense amount of human sacrifice. It's believed they sacrificed more than 80,000 people in just four days (prisoners). And they BRAGGED about it. They did sacrifice to gods, but not just two. It was four, actually. Huitzilopochtli, one of the gods, was actually associated with the sun. He was also associated with warfare *hint hint Fire Nation hint hint*. Huehueteotl was also a fire god. Tezcatlipoca was a god of the night and destiny. What I find interesting about him is that he can forgive wrong doings. It reminded me of the way that the Sun Warriors acted towards the dragons. They tested people. Those three gods out of the four are either related to the dragons or the fire nation. I found that interesting.

    Wow. That is a really good comparison. I think it is now a definite that Bryke based the Sun Warriors off the Aztecs.


    The other god was a water god, though. That's really the only opposition. But other than that, I think it's pretty similar.
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    isabelwhatx

    [98]Aug 5, 2008
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    I was reading up a bit on the Wall of China and I found it quite interesting that the "first" attempt at building the wall was purely earth elements, like dirt. Qin made this wall. Later, Ming, another ruler, repaired the wall with things that were more durable like stones and bricks. This immensely helped in protecting China, it was a physical difference. Maybe that means that Ba Sing Sei will have a better future, seeing as the walls came down. Just a thought...
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    Axrendale

    [99]Aug 5, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    I was reading up a bit on the Wall of China and I found it quite interesting that the "first" attempt at building the wall was purely earth elements, like dirt. Qin made this wall. Later, Ming, another ruler, repaired the wall with things that were more durable like stones and bricks. This immensely helped in protecting China, it was a physical difference. Maybe that means that Ba Sing Sei will have a better future, seeing as the walls came down. Just a thought...

    Another good one. Eventually, the original wall was left to crumble, and the Wall we know today as the Great Wall was built, some distance to the south. It's kind of like what happened with Ba Sing Se; after the original walls were brought down, the Fire nation didn't bother to repair them, but instead simply drew back to the wall around the city proper.

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    isabelwhatx

    [100]Aug 5, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    I was reading up a bit on the Wall of China and I found it quite interesting that the "first" attempt at building the wall was purely earth elements, like dirt. Qin made this wall. Later, Ming, another ruler, repaired the wall with things that were more durable like stones and bricks. This immensely helped in protecting China, it was a physical difference. Maybe that means that Ba Sing Sei will have a better future, seeing as the walls came down. Just a thought...

    Another good one. Eventually, the original wall was left to crumble, and the Wall we know today as the Great Wall was built, some distance to the south. It's kind of like what happened with Ba Sing Se; after the original walls were brought down, the Fire nation didn't bother to repair them, but instead simply drew back to the wall around the city proper.


    True. I'm almost positive that they made the walls around Ba Sing Sei a parallel to The Great Wall of China. I mean, it's kind of obvious. Ahahaha. Same with the Sun Warrios, as discussed.
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