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Official Avatar Historical Comparisons Thread

  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [101]Aug 5, 2008
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    This is one of the best threads I have ever partaken in. Keep it up, people!
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [102]Aug 5, 2008
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    Same. I love it. I'm desperately trying to look up new information about historical comparisons.
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [103]Aug 5, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    I was reading up a bit on the Wall of China and I found it quite interesting that the "first" attempt at building the wall was purely earth elements, like dirt. Qin made this wall. Later, Ming, another ruler, repaired the wall with things that were more durable like stones and bricks. This immensely helped in protecting China, it was a physical difference. Maybe that means that Ba Sing Sei will have a better future, seeing as the walls came down. Just a thought...

    Another good one. Eventually, the original wall was left to crumble, and the Wall we know today as the Great Wall was built, some distance to the south. It's kind of like what happened with Ba Sing Se; after the original walls were brought down, the Fire nation didn't bother to repair them, but instead simply drew back to the wall around the city proper.

    True. I'm almost positive that they made the walls around Ba Sing Sei a parallel to The Great Wall of China. I mean, it's kind of obvious. Ahahaha. Same with the Sun Warrios, as discussed.
    I am beginning to think Ba Sing Se was an amalgamation of the Great Wall of China and Constantinople. The walls of Ba Sing Se are visually similar to the Great Wall, but the concept of Ba Sing Se (an impenetrable walled city with all of its resources inside of the walls) is similar to Constantinople.
    Edited on 08/05/2008 3:42pm
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [104]Aug 5, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    I was reading up a bit on the Wall of China and I found it quite interesting that the "first" attempt at building the wall was purely earth elements, like dirt. Qin made this wall. Later, Ming, another ruler, repaired the wall with things that were more durable like stones and bricks. This immensely helped in protecting China, it was a physical difference. Maybe that means that Ba Sing Sei will have a better future, seeing as the walls came down. Just a thought...

    Another good one. Eventually, the original wall was left to crumble, and the Wall we know today as the Great Wall was built, some distance to the south. It's kind of like what happened with Ba Sing Se; after the original walls were brought down, the Fire nation didn't bother to repair them, but instead simply drew back to the wall around the city proper.

    True. I'm almost positive that they made the walls around Ba Sing Sei a parallel to The Great Wall of China. I mean, it's kind of obvious. Ahahaha. Same with the Sun Warrios, as discussed.
    I am beginning to think Ba Sing Se was an amalgamation of the Great Wall of China and Constantinople. The walls of Ba Sing Se are visually similar to the Great Wall, but the concept of Ba Sing Se (an impenetrable walled city with all of its resources inside of the walls) is similar to Constantinople.

    As Joo Dee said; "Ba Sing Se has many walls". I think that the outer wall that the Fire Nation attempted to drill through was supposed to be reminescent of the Great Wall - it wasn't just protecting a few fields for the city - judging from the map you see in the Avatar title sequence, Ba Sing Se covers almost one sixth of the Earth Kingdom. But I think that you're right that the actual city is very similar to Constantinople.

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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [105]Aug 5, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    I was reading up a bit on the Wall of China and I found it quite interesting that the "first" attempt at building the wall was purely earth elements, like dirt. Qin made this wall. Later, Ming, another ruler, repaired the wall with things that were more durable like stones and bricks. This immensely helped in protecting China, it was a physical difference. Maybe that means that Ba Sing Sei will have a better future, seeing as the walls came down. Just a thought...

    Another good one. Eventually, the original wall was left to crumble, and the Wall we know today as the Great Wall was built, some distance to the south. It's kind of like what happened with Ba Sing Se; after the original walls were brought down, the Fire nation didn't bother to repair them, but instead simply drew back to the wall around the city proper.

    True. I'm almost positive that they made the walls around Ba Sing Sei a parallel to The Great Wall of China. I mean, it's kind of obvious. Ahahaha. Same with the Sun Warrios, as discussed.
    I am beginning to think Ba Sing Se was an amalgamation of the Great Wall of China and Constantinople. The walls of Ba Sing Se are visually similar to the Great Wall, but the concept of Ba Sing Se (an impenetrable walled city with all of its resources inside of the walls) is similar to Constantinople.

    Time to research Constantinople more and provide some supporting evidence. YAY! Be back soon.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [106]Aug 5, 2008
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    I find it really interesting that the first attack launched on Constantinople failed. Didn't the first Fire Nation attack fail as well? The second attack, though, prevailed in both cases. I also find it interesting that there was a lunar eclipse, apparently. "On May 22, 1453, the moon, symbol of Constantinople, rose in dark eclipse, fulfilling a prophecy on the city's demise". The moon is the opposite of the sun, which is where the fire nation draws its power. I found that interesting, too.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [107]Aug 5, 2008
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    Time to do that commentary I said I'd do on the Shi Huang Di documentary.

    After watching this, I am now convinced that I was wrong about Avatar being based on the 100 Years war. Instead, I am convinced that the war in Avatar was actually based on the Warring States Period of China.

    I also learned a lot about Shi Huang Di himself that still manages to correspond to Azula. For example:

    -He had a terrible relationship with his mother. Shi Huang Di loved his mother dearly, and wanted the same from her. Unfortunately, his mother thought that her son was a monster for having laid waste to China, and publicly defied him, culminating in assisting an outright rebellion against him. Shi was furious, but could not bring himself to kill his mother, and instead had her banished. After being betrayed by his mother, Shi swore that he would never trust or love anyone ever again; from that point on ruthless manipulation and domination, and fear would be his choices as tools for making sure people remained loyal to him.

    -After he was betrayed by a close friend and his sanity began to slip, his personal appearance began to slip too. Banishing servants left right and center, Shi was reduced to stalking the halls of his palace, hair dishevelled, tormented by hallucinations of people he had once known and imagined threats of assassination.

    There were a number of familiar names in the Warring States period war; the most striking being the state of Zhao, whose aggressive leadership exhibited many of the traits of the ambitious admiral that we all knew and loved.

    The state of Qin was so much like the Fire Nation that it wasn't funny; right down to almost everyone wearing red and black. The capital city wasn't located in a Volcano, but it was in a mountainous area, and was fairly small, consisting of the palaces where the Emperor and his nobles lived, along with their servants and an army of elite red armoured soldiers. Incidently, according to the documenatry, the soldiers of Qin went through training even more intense, and were even more effective in combat than the warriors of Sparta (blasphemy, maddness!).

    And just to make it absolutley perfect, in the year that Shi Hunag Di died and his reign finally came to an end, a great comet was seen in the skys, taken to be an omen from the heavens.

    Seriously, this was worth watching.

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  • Avatar of HopeHime4

    HopeHime4

    [108]Aug 5, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    Time to do that commentary I said I'd do on the Shi Huang Di documentary.

    After watching this, I am now convinced that I was wrong about Avatar being based on the 100 Years war. Instead, I am convinced that the war in Avatar was actually based on the Warring States Period of China.

    I also learned a lot about Shi Huang Di himself that still manages to correspond to Azula. For example:

    -He had a terrible relationship with his mother. Shi Huang Di loved his mother dearly, and wanted the same from her. Unfortunately, his mother thought that her son was a monster for having laid waste to China, and publicly defied him, culminating in assisting an outright rebellion against him. Shi was furious, but could not bring himself to kill his mother, and instead had her banished. After being betrayed by his mother, Shi swore that he would never trust or love anyone ever again; from that point on ruthless manipulation and domination, and fear would be his choices as tools for making sure people remained loyal to him.

    -After he was betrayed by a close friend and his sanity began to slip, his personal appearance began to slip too. Banishing servants left right and center, Shi was reduced to stalking the halls of his palace, hair dishevelled, tormented by hallucinations of people he had once known and imagined threats of assassination.

    There were a number of familiar names in the Warring States period war; the most striking being the state of Zhao, whose aggressive leadership exhibited many of the traits of the ambitious admiral that we all knew and loved.

    The state of Qin was so much like the Fire Nation that it wasn't funny; right down to almost everyone wearing red and black. The capital city wasn't located in a Volcano, but it was in a mountainous area, and was fairly small, consisting of the palaces where the Emperor and his nobles lived, along with their servants and an army of elite red armoured soldiers. Incidently, according to the documenatry, the soldiers of Qin went through training even more intense, and were even more effective in combat than the warriors of Sparta (blasphemy, maddness!).

    And just to make it absolutley perfect, in the year that Shi Hunag Di died and his reign finally came to an end, a great comet was seen in the skys, taken to be an omen from the heavens.

    Seriously, this was worth watching.


    Wow, I can't believe all the similarities, especially between Shi Huang Di and Azula. That did sound interesting, maybe I'll try to catch it the next time it's on, too!!
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [109]Aug 5, 2008
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    I already set the plans. I'm watching that documentary on Saturday if it's the last thing I do! The similarities are shocking. Someone should ask this question at the next Comic-Con. If this is a coincidence, I will be utterly disturbed. How COULD it be?
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [110]Aug 5, 2008
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    An issue that keeps coming up is how the Air Nomads are going to repopulate. It seems that their only chance is for Aang and Katara to get busy

    This is actually not as impossible as it sounds. There are even real examples of it. The entire population of Israel claims to be descended from Abraham and his wife. Genghis Khan had so many kids that 0.5% of the world's population (an astonishing 30 million people) are descended from him. Both of these examples happened over just a few hundred years (a couple of thousand in the case of the former).

    So the Air Nomads do have a chance of reappearing. But as has been said, Aang and Katara are going to have to get busy

    Edited on 08/05/2008 5:14pm
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [111]Aug 5, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    An issue that keeps coming up is how the Air Nomads are going to repopulate. It seems that their only chance is for Aang and Katara to get busy

    This is actually not as impossible as it sounds. There are even real examples of it. The entire population of Israel claims to be descended from Abraham and his wife. Genghis Khan had so many kids that 0.5% of the world's population (an astonishing 30 million people) are descended from him. Both of these examples happened over just a few hundred years (a couple of thousand in the case of the former).

    So the Air Nomads do have a chance of reappearing. But as has been said, Aang and Katara are going to have to get busy


    And seeing as how we've discussed Genghis Khan as a parallel to the show...
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [112]Aug 5, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    An issue that keeps coming up is how the Air Nomads are going to repopulate. It seems that their only chance is for Aang and Katara to get busy

    This is actually not as impossible as it sounds. There are even real examples of it. The entire population of Israel claims to be descended from Abraham and his wife. Genghis Khan had so many kids that 0.5% of the world's population (an astonishing 30 million people) are descended from him. Both of these examples happened over just a few hundred years (a couple of thousand in the case of the former).

    So the Air Nomads do have a chance of reappearing. But as has been said, Aang and Katara are going to have to get busy

    And seeing as how we've discussed Genghis Khan as a parallel to the show...

    Of course, Genghis Khan had the advantage of having several thousand wives. So Aang's gonna have to bust Azula out of the mental facility to get her to help too. And while he's doing that, he'll need to get Ty Lee, and the other Kyoshi warriors. And he'll also need to drop by Ba Sing Se and pick up the entire army of Joo Dees. I think that'd about do it. But just in case... no; Tokka is simply not an option. I refuse to even consider it. It burns my mind just to think about it.

    Edited on 08/05/2008 5:42pm
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [113]Aug 5, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    An issue that keeps coming up is how the Air Nomads are going to repopulate. It seems that their only chance is for Aang and Katara to get busy

    This is actually not as impossible as it sounds. There are even real examples of it. The entire population of Israel claims to be descended from Abraham and his wife. Genghis Khan had so many kids that 0.5% of the world's population (an astonishing 30 million people) are descended from him. Both of these examples happened over just a few hundred years (a couple of thousand in the case of the former).

    So the Air Nomads do have a chance of reappearing. But as has been said, Aang and Katara are going to have to get busy

    And seeing as how we've discussed Genghis Khan as a parallel to the show...

    Of course, Genghis Khan had the advantage of having several thousand wives. So Aang's gonna have to bust Azula out of the mental facility to get her to help too. And while he's doing that, he'll need to get Ty Lee, and the other Kyoshi warriors. And he'll also need to drop by Ba Sing Se and pick up the entire army of Joo Dees. I think that'd about do it. But just in case... no; Tokka is simply not an option. I refuse to even consider it. It burns my mind just to think about it.


    Lmao. You forgot about Hama! I'm sure she'd love to get it on with Aang.
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [114]Aug 5, 2008
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    "He had a terrible relationship with his mother. Shi Huang Di loved his mother dearly, and wanted the same from her. Unfortunately, his mother thought that her son was a monster for having laid waste to China, and publicly defied him, culminating in assisting an outright rebellion against him. Shi was furious, but could not bring himself to kill his mother, and instead had her banished. After being betrayed by his mother, Shi swore that he would never trust or love anyone ever again; from that point on ruthless manipulation and domination, and fear would be his choices as tools for making sure people remained loyal to him."

    Unfortunately, I did not get to view the entire showing. I did, however, catch this particular part, and I immediately thought of Azula when I heard it. This is a good show from what I have seen of it. If anyone who did not see it is interested in watching it, here is a quick review/summary from the LA Times; hopefully, this will pique your interest even more.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [115]Aug 5, 2008
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    I'm definitely going to be watching it again on Saturday. It is very rare for any movie or TV show to pique my interest enough that I want to watch it all over again (other than Avatar of course ) but this one has done it.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [116]Aug 5, 2008
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    I love the History Channel and Discovery Health. I really only watch those two channels and the occasional GSN. But since Axrendale and Jackson5050 have put their seal of approval on it, I'm more excited than I usually would've been.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [117]Aug 6, 2008
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    This thread seems to once again be in danger of slipping into obscurity.

    We've found historically comparable figures to Iroh and Azula, I guess Aang's next on the list. Personally, I think that Julius Caesar is actually very similar to Aang. Here's why:

    - Unlike most famous people, Julius Caesar did not specialize in any particular skill, but rather was a master of all the different elements of Roman leadership: he was a brilliant general, a master politician, a renowned orator, a prolific writer, an original architect and engineer, a passionate astronomer, and even found time to become a priest of the Roman religion.

    - He was bald.

    - His symbol was an arrow.

    - He was famous for the mercy he showed towards his enemies. No matter how great an enemy he was facing, and no matter how dangerous they might be to him, he would always strive to capture his opponents rather than kill them, and afterwards would grant them complete clemency, often accepting them into his own army as trusted lieutenants. His enemies mocked him for being a coward who disiked executing people, while his allies praised him for his mercy and generosity. The enemies who he captured were not at all grateful, seeing Caesar's clemency as a humiliating alternative to an honorable death in battle.

    - Unlike most Romans, Caesar was very reserved with his food; he avoided alcohol and meaty dishes, instead preffering simple vegetarian meals (AKA the Caesar salad).

    It's not as similar as Azula/Shi Huang Di, but still, it's something.

    - Just to add another Avatar reference, Caesar was in fact declared a god when a great comet passed over Rome, being taken as a sign from the gods of their approval of Caesar. The comet, incidently, is suspected of being the same one that passed over China during the reign of Shi Huang Di, returning to earth every several hundred years.

    Edited on 08/06/2008 10:19pm
    Edited 3 total times.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [118]Aug 6, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    This thread seems to once again be in danger of slipping into obscurity.

    We've found historically comparable figures to Iroh and Azula, I guess Aang's next on the list. Personally, I think that Julius Caesar is actually very similar to Aang. Here's why:

    - Unlike most famous people, Julius Caesar did not specialize in any particular skill, but rather was a master of all the different elements of Roman leadership: he was a brilliant general, a master politician, a renowned orator, a prolific writer, an original architect and engineer, a passionate astronomer, and even found time to become a priest of the Roman religion.

    - He was bald.

    - His symbol was an arrow.

    - He was famous for the mercy he showed towards his enemies. No matter how great an enemy he was facing, and no matter how dangerous they might be to him, he would always strive to capture his opponents rather than kill them, and afterwards would grant them complete clemency, often accepting them into his own army as trusted lieutenants. His enemies mocked him for being a coward who disiked executing people, while his allies praised him for his mercy and generosity. The enemies who he captured were not at all grateful, seeing Caesar's clemency as a humiliating alternative to an honorable death in battle.

    - Unlike most Romans, Caesar was very reserved with his food; he avoided alcohol and meaty dishes, instead preffering simple vegetarian meals (AKA the Caesar salad).

    It's not as similar as Azula/Shi Huang Di, but still, it's something.

    - Just to add another Avatar reference, Caesar was in fact declared a god when a great comet passed over Rome, being taken as a sign from the gods of their approval of Caesar. The comet, incidently, is suspected of being the same one that passed over China during the reign of Shi Huang Di, returning to earth every several hundred years.

    EDIT:

    He also had a habit of falling in love with women who didn't love him and wooing them until they finally gave in and developed feelings for him.

    Edited on 08/06/2008 10:20pm
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    Dafoose

    [119]Aug 6, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    This thread seems to once again be in danger of slipping into obscurity.

    We've found historically comparable figures to Iroh and Azula, I guess Aang's next on the list. Personally, I think that Julius Caesar is actually very similar to Aang. Here's why:

    - Unlike most famous people, Julius Caesar did not specialize in any particular skill, but rather was a master of all the different elements of Roman leadership: he was a brilliant general, a master politician, a renowned orator, a prolific writer, an original architect and engineer, a passionate astronomer, and even found time to become a priest of the Roman religion.

    - He was bald.

    - His symbol was an arrow.

    - He was famous for the mercy he showed towards his enemies. No matter how great an enemy he was facing, and no matter how dangerous they might be to him, he would always strive to capture his opponents rather than kill them, and afterwards would grant them complete clemency, often accepting them into his own as army as trusted lieutenants. His enemies mocked him for being a coward who disiked executing people, while his allies praised him for his mercy and generosity. The enemies who he captured were not at all grateful, seeing Caesar's clemency as a humiliating alternative to an honorable death in battle.

    - Unlike most Romans, Caesar was very reserved with his food; he avoided alcohol and meaty dishes, instead preffering simple vegetarian meals (AKA the Caesar salad).

    It's not as similar as Azula/Shi Huang Di, but still, it's something.

    - Just to add another Avatar reference, Caesar was in fact declared a god when a great comet passed over Rome, being taken as a sign from the gods of their approval of Caesar. The comet, incidently, is suspected of being the same one that passed over China during the reign of Shi Huang Di, returning to earth every several hundred years.

    EDIT:

    He also had a habit of falling in love with women who didn't love him and wooing them until they finally gave in and developed feelings for him.


    I know how he feels.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [120]Aug 6, 2008
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    Eh. But the one thing that bugs me is Julius Caesar took over other peoples' lands, which is exactly what Aang is against. The one thing prevents me from completely liking that comparison.
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