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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Official Avatar Historical Comparisons Thread

  • Avatar of laurenmoo78

    laurenmoo78

    [61]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 10/07/06
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    laurenmoo78 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    It is very similar to WWII in the fact that the Fire Nation thinks they are superior. It's a scary thing.
    Someone might have nixed the post b/c I made a reference to the "final solution" and that's still a very touchy subject for some people; I mean no disrespect, it was an awful thing, but there are parallels in the show and I thought that this thread was here to intelligently discuss historical parallels. Some comparisons may sometimes be gruesome or gritty, but there it is. And when many of you get to college, you will be talking about some unpleasant things (if you're not there already).

    It is very similar to the "Final Soltuion". Total extermination seems to be common in power thirsty leaders. But there are many parallels to WWII. The aura of superiority and almost brain washing is very similar to the show.
    Yeah, if you were to compare the EK to Russia instead of China, and the Dai Lee to the KGB (with all of the secrecy and brainwashing and such), the FN would still fit as the Axis powers. Moscow, like Ba Sing Se, was very difficult to invade, although not for the same reasons.
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  • Avatar of macman954754

    macman954754

    [62]Aug 2, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought the Order of the White Lotus was based on the secret Buddhist organization, The Society of the White Lotus.


    never heard about them before. that would make sense since the show is "eastern" based. yet Buddhist live life with no materials and have peace. the masons have been accused of starting the American Revolution and the French Revolution. members in the past include Ben Franklin and George Washington. when the Order of the White Lotus took back Ba Sing Se i freed it, this idea came to mind. and i had just watched a show about them a week before.
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  • Avatar of macman954754

    macman954754

    [63]Aug 2, 2008
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    here is another one that i found... http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history.do?action=Article&id=50890

    this is the first use of a submarine in warfare. maybe a little to much of a stretch, but the idea that it was made out of wood, only one person could pilot it, and that they ultimately failed and sank. somewhat like the DOBS episode. wood, only a water bender could create motion, and they got bombed and sank.

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  • Avatar of carlsonem

    carlsonem

    [64]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 12/23/06
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought the Order of the White Lotus was based on the secret Buddhist organization, The Society of the White Lotus.
    Buddhism is corresponding to the air nomad culture. Their beliefs are identical. The comparison to Buddhism and the white lotus is not close. The white lotus is more like the free masons.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [65]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
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    laurenmoo78 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    laurenmoo78 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    It is very similar to WWII in the fact that the Fire Nation thinks they are superior. It's a scary thing.
    Someone might have nixed the post b/c I made a reference to the "final solution" and that's still a very touchy subject for some people; I mean no disrespect, it was an awful thing, but there are parallels in the show and I thought that this thread was here to intelligently discuss historical parallels. Some comparisons may sometimes be gruesome or gritty, but there it is. And when many of you get to college, you will be talking about some unpleasant things (if you're not there already).

    It is very similar to the "Final Soltuion". Total extermination seems to be common in power thirsty leaders. But there are many parallels to WWII. The aura of superiority and almost brain washing is very similar to the show.
    Yeah, if you were to compare the EK to Russia instead of China, and the Dai Lee to the KGB (with all of the secrecy and brainwashing and such), the FN would still fit as the Axis powers. Moscow, like Ba Sing Se, was very difficult to invade, although not for the same reasons.

    You must've missed it, but we;re avoiding the WWII topic. Apparently some people get really, really touchy. I don't want to upset anyone.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [66]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
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    carlsonem wrote:
    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought the Order of the White Lotus was based on the secret Buddhist organization, The Society of the White Lotus.
    Buddhism is corresponding to the air nomad culture. Their beliefs are identical. The comparison to Buddhism and the white lotus is not close. The white lotus is more like the free masons.

    NATIONAL TREASURE WOOT WOOT!
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [67]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    laurenmoo78 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    It is very similar to WWII in the fact that the Fire Nation thinks they are superior. It's a scary thing.
    Someone might have nixed the post b/c I made a reference to the "final solution" and that's still a very touchy subject for some people; I mean no disrespect, it was an awful thing, but there are parallels in the show and I thought that this thread was here to intelligently discuss historical parallels. Some comparisons may sometimes be gruesome or gritty, but there it is. And when many of you get to college, you will be talking about some unpleasant things (if you're not there already).

    Don't get me wrong, WW2 is a fascinating subject, and one where many interesting comparisons can be drawn, but it was discussion of WW2 and the touchiness it set off in a bunch of people that got another thread for discussing Avatar historical comparisons locked, and I would like this thread to stay open.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [68]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    Shi Huang Di: the the greatest and maddest emperor of China:

    Emperor Shi Huang Di is beyond a shadow of doubt one of the most controversial figures of Chinese history.

    At the time of his birth the country of China was divided into number of different nations, all of which were under attack by Qin, the most powerful of all the countries, and Shi Huang Di's birthplace. The war between Qin and the other nations had at this point been raging for centuries. For years, the Kings of Qin had been trying to make use of their superior numbers and war technology to conquer the other nations, but for years those other nations had held out through sheer will, and had managed to remain independent. It would be Shi Huang Di who put an end to that Independence.

    When he was born though, he did not seem likely to ever be of any importance. His father was a prince, but being one of the younger sons had small chance of taking the throne. Against the odds, he did become King eventually, after numerous schemes and a lot of luck had eliminated his older brothers and his father had died under mysterious circumstances. The new King had several sons, but he favored Shi Huang Di because he was the smartest, and more importantly, the most ruthless. Over the next few years, the other sons would be variously banished or killed, leaving Shi Huang Di as the crown prince.

    Once he had become King himself, Shi soon set about conquering the nations that for years had resisted his ancestors. Showing no regard at all for the traditional rules of warfare, he had soon defeated his opponents through a combination of trickery and military might. Incredibly charismatic, he possesed the ability to talk some of his fiercest foes onto his side. In addition to being a brilliant general and tactician, he was no stranger to personal combat, and was known to kill heavily armed opponents with his bare hands.

    Having conquered the other nations, he declared himself to be the Emperor of China (developed from the name "Qin"). A brilliant but astonishingly cruel ruler, he transformed what had previously been a collection of squabbling provinces into a centralized empire, rounding off his achievements by building the Great Wall of China. Anyone who opposed him was ruthlessly executed, no matter their former standing. A Legalist philosopher, he was a firm opponent of Confucianism, and all other such philosophies.

    Everything seemed to be going perfectly for him, until he was betrayed by a man who had once been a very close friend of his. Worse, the man had tried to assasinate him. Shi Huang Di was shattered by this betrayal, and soon after began to descend into maddness. Overcome by paranoia that everyone was capable of betraying him, he banished all of his servants and close friends, allowing no one to approach him. When it was absolutley necessary that he talk to someone, the only way that he could feel safe was by lighting a large fire in front of his throne, so that anyone trying to kill him would have to come through the flames.

    His enemies hoped that he might be vulnerable in his maddness, but were soon proved wrong. Shi came out of his maddness long enough to take command of his armies again and crush the invasion, but as soon as he had done so slipped back into insanity and died shortly afterwards, unable to live with the pressure of the life he had created for himself.

    One other thing about Shi Huang Di was unusual; all of his ancestors had maintained a tradition of having the symbolic colour of the element fire as the royal color. Shi Huang Di, on the other hand, preferred the symbolic color of water as his royal color, for reasons unknown.

    It really shouldn't be hard to figue out which Avatar charcater I think corresponds to Shi Huang Di.

    Edited on 08/05/2008 3:40pm
    Edited 11 total times.
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  • Avatar of carlsonem

    carlsonem

    [69]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 12/23/06
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    carlsonem wrote:
    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought the Order of the White Lotus was based on the secret Buddhist organization, The Society of the White Lotus.
    Buddhism is corresponding to the air nomad culture. Their beliefs are identical. The comparison to Buddhism and the white lotus is not close. The white lotus is more like the free masons.
    NATIONAL TREASURE WOOT WOOT!
    Haha. Those are good movies.
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [70]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 07/23/08
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    carlsonem wrote:
    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought the Order of the White Lotus was based on the secret Buddhist organization, The Society of the White Lotus.
    Buddhism is corresponding to the air nomad culture. Their beliefs are identical. The comparison to Buddhism and the white lotus is not close. The white lotus is more like the free masons.
    I know the Air Nomad culture is based on Tibetan Buddhism, but I believe the Order of the White Lotus is based on the secret Buddhist organization, The Society of the White Lotus. This secret Buddhist organization was the catalyst for many revolts in China. They would rebel against corrupt and disliked governments; something similar to what the Order of the White Lotus did during Sozin's Comet.
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  • Avatar of macman954754

    macman954754

    [71]Aug 2, 2008
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    ok i read up on the Society of the White Lotus... yes i see the connection, except that their actions, from what i have read at least, were mostly based on religious ideaology and the return of Buddha. also the Society was made of only one type of a group (Buddhists) , whereas the masons are world wide. the Order of the White Lotus was made of all the nations. lol.. maybe its just a combination of both. and yes national treasure was sweet, but the first one was a lot better
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [72]Aug 2, 2008
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    *hopes someone will comment on Azula/Shi Huang Di post*
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  • Avatar of HopeHime4

    HopeHime4

    [73]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 07/18/08
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    Wow, I must admit, I am totally impressed by this thread!! You guys have made some excellent historical comparisons, especially Axrendale!! And btw, I don't mind your insanely long posts, I find them fascinating to read.

    Unfortunately, it's kinda late right now, so I don't have any historical comparisons to offer up right now, but I'll sleep on this tonight, and I'll hopefully be back with some excellent comparisons as well!!
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [75]Aug 3, 2008
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    The History Channel (I believe) is going to do an expositional series on Shi Huang Di in the not too distant future. The similarities between him and Azula are very striking. I may watch the series to see if I can learn anything more about him.
    Edited on 08/15/2008 9:47pm
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [76]Aug 3, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    The History Channel (I believe) is going to do an expositional series on Shi Huang Di in the not to distant future. The similarities between him and Azula are very striking. I may watch the series to see if I can learn anything more about him.

    Really? If you have any more information about when it's on, please let me know - it sounds really interesting.

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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [77]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 07/23/08
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    Axrendale wrote:

    Jackson5050 wrote:
    The History Channel (I believe) is going to do an expositional series on Shi Huang Di in the not to distant future. The similarities between him and Azula are very striking. I may watch the series to see if I can learn anything more about him.

    Really? If you have any more information about when it's on, please let me know - it sounds really interesting.

    Here is the information about it in case anyone else is interested.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [78]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    Jackson5050 wrote:
    The History Channel (I believe) is going to do an expositional series on Shi Huang Di in the not to distant future. The similarities between him and Azula are very striking. I may watch the series to see if I can learn anything more about him.

    Really? If you have any more information about when it's on, please let me know - it sounds really interesting.

    Here is the information about it in case anyone else is interested.

    Thanks! I'll be watching it.

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  • Avatar of LadyLaura26

    LadyLaura26

    [79]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 06/08/08
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    This is a really cool idea! I like history and comparing it to Avatar is awesome. Anyway on the Azula/Emperor Shi Huang Di comparison is awesome, he sounds alot like her, even the madness part! She reminds me a bit of Nero, I watched the Rome-thing on the history channel about him, and he was insane, but I don't know much about him besides that (he was a crappy emperor)
    Edited on 08/03/2008 8:11pm
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [80]Aug 3, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    LadyLaura26 wrote:
    This is a really cool idea! I like history and comparing it to Avatar is awesome. Anyway on the Azula/Emperor Shi Huang Di comparison is awesome, he sounds alot like her, even the madness part! She reminds me a bit of Nero, I watched the Rome-thing on the history channel about him, and he was insane, but I don't know much about him besides that (he was a crappy emperor)

    Not a particularly good comparison, I'm afraid. The only thing that the two had in common was the insanity part, and even that was different - differing causes and different things done while mad. On this thread we're looking for a lot more than vague similarities; we're looking for things that really are disturbingly similar, or can help contribute to the understanding of something, etc, etc (see first post).

    Sorry, my inner Azula fan compelled me to say that.

    But anyway, I'm really glad that you like this thread; and hope to see you posting on it! It was very popular in the first day or two after it's creation, but since then has slackened off somewhat. Oh well, I'm not going to give up.

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