I am sorry but Katara is by no means Zuko's equal. She is terrified of Tai Lee because without her bending she is nothing. You can take away bending from Zuko and he still has a whole truck load to fall back on. His skill with broadswords is so far unbeaten by any mundane opponent and only matched by jet who managed to with weapons take on and beat at least temporarily the avatar. He is in fact a genuine Ninja and has the practical skill of inflitration enough to TWICE infiltrate flawlessly a stronghold and go so far as to get most of the way out WITH a prisoner in tow the second time, escaping undetected the first time.

His skill set expands beyond bending. Where as Katara is tied intrensically to her skills as a bender.

First off lets examine the incredibly subjective power of water bending.

There are five phases of the moon, Full, Gibbous, Crescent, Half and New. Fire benders lose their powers in a solar eclipse, and water benders lose it during a lunar eclipse, fire benders lose and gain power with the rise and fall of the sun, water benders do the same but with the moon

So lets put some imaginary numbers to this.

So assuming that it is the moon not the night that water benders draw power from, then we can say that.

((Day = New Moon)) for water bender

Furthermore if the additional power is correspondent to the other 4 phases of the moon, the water bender spends at least 50% of the nights and all of the days with less than half moon power, whatever that means. So Lunar Eclipse = NO power
New Moon/Day = Minimum power
Crecent Moon = Some power
Half Moon = Half power
Gibbous Moon = Great power
Full Moon = maximum power

Now even of these are only averages a firebender is far simpler

Solar Eclipse = NO power
Day= More power
Night = Less power

Certainly the shift is not as dramatic as with water benders as there is no gradation to the phases of the sun, it just is. So if Katara w/full moon, Zuko w/o Sun = Contest w/katara winning
And Katara w/o moon, Zuko w/sun = spank Katara
then Katara w/full moon, Zuko w/o sun +fatigue of hauling aang through a blizzard, and swimming in artic waters = Spank zuko

then we can infer one thing. 95% of the time, IE all days more than half nights a well rested Zuko is going to pimp slap Katara. Furthermore since he has yet to use a weapon in conjuction with his bending, which she has no skill there is even further doubt in my mind that she has a chance. Katara would need the gibbous moon and greater to stand a chance and if Zuko brought his broad swords then the only thing that would save her would be a full moon.

Pipboy, yes, those are some of the things that tie into it. Anyone who thinks critically might say some of the same.

I do disagree on some points. While Zuko is a much better fighter, Katara is, by far, the better bender. If all things were equal, no sun or moon and equal physical fighting experience and ability. Katara's superior bending would be apparent. Take away bending, Zuko would be better.

I am only going to address the Katara bending issue. Zuko has been bending all his life. Katara has been practicing a few measly months. Her inexperience with waterbending and her younger age should speak a whole heck of a lot: she could hold her own against Zuko, the fire bender with the better fighting sense. How can you be practicing all your life and get jacked up by a novice? I don't care if the moon came down to earth, shook her hand, and took Zuko???s knee caps out. Something just doesn't add up. Something???s wrong with his firebending if he can't hang with a newbie with fighting AND firebending on his side. Note that I am not saying he is horrible at firebending, just not as good as Katara.

Adding insult to injury, I notice that while Zuko seems to be reaching a plateau, Katara is still growing. (Of course the sense is that the plateau may be temporary.)

Don't misunderstand me. What I stated above is not said from some avid Katara fan or Zuko basher. I am none of those things. It is just that too many Zuko fangirls (and boys) are afraid to admit his weaknesses and possible limitations. While others tremble at those things, I think they are what make Zuko a worthwhile character. If not, he runs the risk of becoming Mary Sue???s boyfriend, Brooding Bruce almighty.

I also wanted to address the Tai Lee issue. Actually, I don't even think it's an issue. You said that Katara was afraid of her because she could block chi. I thought she could also paralyze people's limbs. Same difference.

After reviewing the episode, its quite clear that Zuko >> Katara in terms of pure bending.

1. Both times she landed a hit on him were with Zuko with his guard down.
The first involved him underestimating her, seeing as how he didn't know she had found a master, and as such didn't expect such a powerful assault, which he admitted while in the ice.

After that, they both counter, block and dodge every hit, fighting as complete equals.

Then Zuko runs by her to grab Aang, Katara lands a blow to his back, and quickly freezes him.

2. Zuko was injured from the bomb on his boat, being stowing away on Zhao's boat for days, which would mean lack of sleep and surely weakened from swimming through artic water to get there.

Meaning he was by no means at full strength.

3. The Moon was full, meaning Katara got a huge powerboost.

4. Zuko's fireball plowed right through her defense when the Sun had only just started rising, meaning at this point Katara's moonboost was still in effect.

5. Zuko's attack was by no means an unguarded one, they were launching attacks at each other from 2 steps distance earlier, and Katara had turned around and put up a shield again. It was simply no match for Zuko now.

So the fact that they fought as equals when using solely bending, while Katara got a powerboost, makes it quite clear she is no match for Zuko without the boost.

It is not clear at all. You can't separate Zuko's ability to fight from his bending. Why- because he basically uses both at the same time.



Let's take a generic scene with Zuko fighting. Dodge, find an opening, blast. Or, he sweep kicks etc. with fire.



If he is able to dodge, that is his fighting sense. If he comes from above, that is is fighting sense. If he finds an opening, that's his fighting sense. When he bends, he usually only enhances a physical fighting technique. That makes sense because he is the better PHYSICAL fighter.

Pull yourself away from the fight the two had. This is can be a limited of view, in terms of who is better at bending. Katara can do quite alot with her waterbending when she doesn't have a boost- water whip, ice daggers, ice formations etc. She actually manipulates the water in unexpected ways. What does Zuko do? He moves around alot and shoots fire from the same places. I've NEVER been impressed with Zuko's bending. It's always been a combination of his bending and fighting that was more spectacular.

Even though Zuko is incredibly agile, Katara is a waterbending master, and Zuko hasnt mastered firebending himself??and he is older than Katara.??However you wouldn't be able to tell who is better because it depends on the environment around them, this is where Zuko is at an advantage because he can firebend anywhere yet Katara is limited to the water.??If they??were battling by a river or something Katara would win hands down, if there was no water around then Katara hasn't got a chance.??

I agree that she is a great Bender, I don't think she's truly a master level bender yet. The title Master seems tp also often be given to Benders who become teachers. Toph is a much better Bender then Katara, but isn't a master yet, because her master never gave her the title. Same goes for Zuko, he's manages to defeat a master (Zhao), while injured, yet until Iroh gives him the title, he'll not be a master.

It makes no sense for her to have progressed that quickly anyway. When they found that scroll, Aang picked it up in minutes, yet Katara required hours. Now after a short while at the North Pole she becomes a master and Aang barely progresses. Makes no sense and seemed more forced so they could continue taveling then anything else.

And Katara hasn't had that much more training then Zuko.

Katara learned the basics to Water Bending with Aang, and learned advanced techniques at the North Pole

Zuko learned the basics as a Kid, and Iroh started his advanced training in the very first episode.

So yes, Katara learned faster then Zuko, but not by the huge difference some claim.

As for the power of each bending art, I believe they are actuall roughly equal, with one focusing on speed, yet the other on defense and so on. The fact that Aang resorts to Earth, Air and Water Bending while fighting Azula shows that none is superior to the other for him, otherwise he'd focus on just that style.

Okay, okay. We've got the Star Wars snag. Just because Pakku says that Katara is Aang's master, does not mean that she herself is a master. Like Obi Wan, while Master to Anikan, does not ever attain the level of Jedi Master. Katara has much to learn, and just doesn't have the time to do it. Can everyone agree that Katara has a lot more to learn?

Zuko didn't learn the basics as a kid. Zuko in fact was probably useless until he was thrown into exile when he taught himself firebending by discipline alone. Iroh was probably the only one who gave him actual training that stuck. Zuko is no prodigy, he knows this. The limitations are what make his character so interesting. He will never be a firebending master. He will never control himself. He will never bend lightning. Zuko will always be the runner up when it comes to Bending, that's just a fact.

It's nice to see this thread come back to some kind of sense. Great arguements.

it took katara more then hours to learn the water whip it took like days

Katara is the Avatar equivalant to Smallville's Lana Lang. She's perfect, amazing and wins every fight unless it's some kind of tragic thing where she didn't stand a chance and it's played for pity.