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Katara vs Zuko

  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [121]Oct 7, 2006
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    Way to discount three paragraphs of persuasive writing with one ignorant sentence. I'm going to yell this, so if you get nauseous over tension, cover your ears.

    WE HAVE 6 PAGES TELLING US HOW KATARA IS A BETTER BENDER THAN ZUKO AND HOW SHE IS NOT PERFECT, AND MUST LEARN MORE IN OOOOORDER TO BEEEEEECOMMME A MA! STERRRRR!

    That's my sentence. Now where are your paragraphs?
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  • Avatar of hakeemadams94

    hakeemadams94

    [122]Oct 7, 2006
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    Zuko was almost killed before he fought katara.He had scars all over his face and he had to swim in cold water.If Zuko was not weaken from his othe3r battles katara would of got owned so bad it's not even funny.Plus he was fighting her in the winter.Zuko had to walk through storm with the avatar on his back.While katara flies to him.
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  • Avatar of pmgandrews

    pmgandrews

    [123]Oct 7, 2006
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    zukone wrote:
    pmgandrews wrote:
    I agree that she is a great Bender, I don't think she's truly a master level bender yet. The title Master seems tp also often be given to Benders who become teachers. Toph is a much better Bender then Katara, but isn't a master yet, because her master never gave her the title. Same goes for Zuko, he's manages to defeat a master (Zhao), while injured, yet until Iroh gives him the title, he'll not be a master.

    It makes no sense for her to have progressed that quickly anyway. When they found that scroll, Aang picked it up in minutes, yet Katara required hours. Now after a short while at the North Pole she becomes a master and Aang barely progresses. Makes no sense and seemed more forced so they could continue taveling then anything else.

    And Katara hasn't had that much more training then Zuko.

    Katara learned the basics to Water Bending with Aang, and learned advanced techniques at the North Pole

    Zuko learned the basics as a Kid, and Iroh started his advanced training in the very first episode.

    So yes, Katara learned faster then Zuko, but not by the huge difference some claim.

    As for the power of each bending art, I believe they are actuall roughly equal, with one focusing on speed, yet the other on defense and so on. The fact that Aang resorts to Earth, Air and Water Bending while fighting Azula shows that none is superior to the other for him, otherwise he'd focus on just that style.


    Plotwise, I agree with you. I think it was rushed and it would make the story better if Katara wasn't a master or even as good as she was in the north. It would have been better if she had more to learn. (She probably still does.)

    I honestly would prefer if Zuko had something different to add to the plate of firebending. I may be one of the few who does NOT want him to learn to bend lightning. That's just me.


    Katara really didn't progress that far from what she did in episode 18. I just don't feel she deserves the title master yet, seeing as how she still isn't close to some of the other masters we've seen.
    As I said, the term Master seems to be linked to as much to being a teacher as it does to actual skill level.

    Look at Zhao and Iroh, both are masters, yet in Siege of the North, Zhao quite literally crapped his pants and ran in fear when Iroh attacked those 4 soldiers. I seriously doubt he will learn how to bend lightning (at least in the near future). Seeing as how it seems 90% sure he'll end up teaching Aang, and if Aang or Zuko can bend lightning, then Azula loses her edge.

    And seeing as how Water Bending has evolved to also allow control of Ice, and Earth Bending gave Aang that Rockhand which added superstrength (a mere push sent Azula flying), its possible Fire has an evolved form that is purely heat based. Zuko used it to create daggers afterall, so fire can be used to create solid things to a degree and looking at say The Human Torch from Marvel Comics, then Fire can become as fluid as water in a battle.

    So Zuko can progress a lot without actually learning Lightning Bending.
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [124]Oct 7, 2006
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    I've said it a million times. Zuko is not a skilled bender, but he is very creative. Has anyone else used Fire Daggers? Have you slowed down the episode where Zuko is bombed to see how he uses his bending to survive? He can't beat out his sister and probably ranks in the 56th percentile of firebenders, but he can survive just about anything. And most of the time, he won't use bending to do so.
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  • Avatar of metalcurtainrod

    metalcurtainrod

    [125]Oct 7, 2006
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    There are too many factors pertaining to the fight between Zuko and Katara in SotN. We'd have to see them fight again to determine who is the better bender, in my opinion.
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  • Avatar of Spiffyonline

    Spiffyonline

    [126]Oct 7, 2006
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    Now that Zuko can produce lighting firebending, it would be a match against Masters of their respective element.
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  • Avatar of zukone

    zukone

    [127]Oct 7, 2006
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    Spiffyonline wrote:
    Now that Zuko can produce lighting firebending, it would be a match against Masters of their respective element.


    That was a funny joke.
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  • Avatar of metalcurtainrod

    metalcurtainrod

    [128]Oct 7, 2006
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    Spiffyonline wrote:
    Now that Zuko can produce lighting firebending, it would be a match against Masters of their respective element.


    Since when can he produce lightning?
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  • Avatar of pmgandrews

    pmgandrews

    [129]Oct 7, 2006
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    masterofaeons wrote:
    I've said it a million times. Zuko is not a skilled bender, but he is very creative. Has anyone else used Fire Daggers? Have you slowed down the episode where Zuko is bombed to see how he uses his bending to survive? He can't beat out his sister and probably ranks in the 56th percentile of firebenders, but he can survive just about anything. And most of the time, he won't use bending to do so.


    You just pointed out he is the only Bender we know of to create daggers, a solid thing, with Fire, and how he used firebending to survive his ship exploding. Yet still call him a non-skilled Bender. Even funnier is how you pointed out how he used Bending to survive, then say he won't use bending to survive.

    You realize Azula didn't firebend to beat him, she was using martial arts, and then resorted to Lightning, which according to Iroh, is very lethal.

    Zuko's shown to be damn skilled Fire Bender. What do you call bending fire while under water for instance.

    Creating solid knives out of fire

    Lighting 50 candles in seconds without burning anything

    Sending fire from his feet along the ground to keep Zhao off balance.

    Creating Fire Shields to block Aang and Katara's attacks.

    Creating a Fire Whip

    Using his breath to survive swimming in artic water.

    Matching a Moonboosted Katara blow for blow when both are soley using fire and water moves on each other.

    And he's actually halfway to using Lightning, if he manages to find balance, then it won't blow up in his face anymore. But having it blow up in his face is a lot more then most firebenders have ever achieved.

    Zuko is a far better bender then you give him credit for, he's shown the most resourcefulness and versatility when using his fire then most of the other Fire Benders by now.
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  • Avatar of arthuroys

    arthuroys

    [130]Oct 7, 2006
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    This may be true, but I see no way that Zuko could have mastered producing lightning.?? After "Bitter Work", he really didn't have that much time to practice it before he was hiding in the floral section of the Pai Sho Junkies house.?? So where would he practice it???

    In the pot? Probably not.
    On the barge??? I'm sure he made sure that Jet saw him do it as well.
    In Ba Sing Se? ....
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [131]Oct 7, 2006
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    I'm not saying Zuko is completely incompetent. He's average. He'll use bending to survive, but PREFERS his hands on abilities. Azula would rather firebend or use lightning to win, she's not afraid to play her trump card early. Zuko plays it a little smarter than that, but doesn't keep up. Firebending underwater doesn't seem impossible. Until I see someone who can't do it, I'll believe anyone can.

    He's not halfway to using lightning, he's halfway to redirecting lightning. He's six lightyears away from even producing lightning. He's not a better bender than I give him credit for, he's exactly what I say he is. He didn't have the innate talent that his sister did, he forced himself to learn bending when he didn't understand the basics of it. He is not gifted with bending by any means, he is only smart enough to scrape by on life. I'm not insulting him. He's a far better character for it.
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  • Avatar of zukone

    zukone

    [132]Oct 7, 2006
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    masterofaeons wrote:
    I've said it a million times. Zuko is not a skilled bender, but he is very creative. Has anyone else used Fire Daggers? Have you slowed down the episode where Zuko is bombed to see how he uses his bending to survive? He can't beat out his sister and probably ranks in the 56th percentile of firebenders, but he can survive just about anything. And most of the time, he won't use bending to do so.


    That's mostly how I think. His bending is strongly linked to his fighting style. When he bends, it's mostly not independent of his fighting.

    pmgandrews wrote:
    Katara really didn't progress that far from what
    she did in episode 18. I just don't feel she deserves the title master
    yet, seeing as how she still isn't close to some of the other masters
    we've seen.
    As I said, the term Master seems to be linked to as much to being a teacher as it does to actual skill level.

    Look
    at Zhao and Iroh, both are masters, yet in Siege of the North, Zhao
    quite literally crapped his pants and ran in fear when Iroh attacked
    those 4 soldiers. I seriously doubt he will learn how to bend lightning
    (at least in the near future). Seeing as how it seems 90% sure he'll
    end up teaching Aang, and if Aang or Zuko can bend lightning, then
    Azula loses her edge.

    And seeing as how Water Bending has
    evolved to also allow control of Ice, and Earth Bending gave Aang that
    Rockhand which added superstrength (a mere push sent Azula flying), its
    possible Fire has an evolved form that is purely heat based. Zuko used
    it to create daggers afterall, so fire can be used to create solid
    things to a degree and looking at say The Human Torch from Marvel
    Comics, then Fire can become as fluid as water in a battle.

    So Zuko can progress a lot without actually learning Lightning Bending.


    I may also be one of the few who does NOT want him to teach Aang firebending except in some extenuating circumstance. Even then, I would think it would be contrived. No. NO. H*ll NO! I wrote two posts on Who do you think will teach Aang fire bending that I think you are familiar with, explaining my stance on the issue. Forgive me if I do not have the energy to rehash the same thing over.

    My stance on the bending is the same. I am not going to rehash that again either. I will only add one thing. If Zuko is a super wonderful bender, then I don't like him. He becomes worthless to me and his "Overcoming Adversity" theme is hogwash. He'll lack dimension and I will not empathize with any adversity he comes in contact with.?? Ozai can stomp on his head and I'll just shrug my shoulders.

    (I held onto this post too long. masterofaeons beat me to the punch about Zuko's character.)
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  • Avatar of Inu_babygirl

    Inu_babygirl

    [133]Oct 7, 2006
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    I know that Katara will win kno matter how many times they will fight because they have fought before and she would have won if it wasn't a sneak attack.
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [134]Oct 7, 2006
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    Not to be overly rude, but can everyone here try to back things up? A sentence is hardly persuasive.

    Unless of course it's something like "It did happen in this episode, so you're wrong."
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  • Avatar of metalcurtainrod

    metalcurtainrod

    [135]Oct 7, 2006
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    masterofaeons wrote:
    I'm not saying Zuko is completely incompetent. He's average. He'll use bending to survive, but PREFERS his hands on abilities. Azula would rather firebend or use lightning to win, she's not afraid to play her trump card early. Zuko plays it a little smarter than that, but doesn't keep up. Firebending underwater doesn't seem impossible. Until I see someone who can't do it, I'll believe anyone can.

    He's not halfway to using lightning, he's halfway to redirecting lightning. He's six lightyears away from even producing lightning. He's not a better bender than I give him credit for, he's exactly what I say he is. He didn't have the innate talent that his sister did, he forced himself to learn bending when he didn't understand the basics of it. He is not gifted with bending by any means, he is only smart enough to scrape by on life. I'm not insulting him. He's a far better character for it.


    How can you call him average? He beat Admiral Zhao, who is supposed to be a really good bender, in an agni kai, using only firebending!

    He was even owning him in the SotN again!

    Zuko may not be as good as Azula or Iroh, but he is a really good firebender.
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [136]Oct 7, 2006
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    ...Look! A rabbit!
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  • Avatar of metalcurtainrod

    metalcurtainrod

    [137]Oct 7, 2006
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    masterofaeons wrote:
    ...Look! A rabbit!


    wtf?
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  • Avatar of zukone

    zukone

    [138]Oct 7, 2006
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    I cuts and pastes from a previous post on another thread.
    zukone wrote:

    Let's go to the Zuko beat Zhao twice argument. Zuko may not have had to have been that wonderful of a firebender to beat him. Zhao's impatience was his hindrance, and with Zuko's many run-ins with him, Zuko could have figured that out. Even if he hadn???t figured it out, there are other reasons why Zuko could have won. The first time Zuko beat him, he had a personal coach. To me that doesn't even count. To boot, he was told to go back to BASICS. HAH.

    Zuko has a brilliant fighting sense. That, coupled with his firebending, is what makes him so powerful. It may not necessarily be that his firebending is awesome, he just fuses it with his overall fighting style. This is a good combination to beat Zhao.
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  • Avatar of metalcurtainrod

    metalcurtainrod

    [139]Oct 7, 2006
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    zukone wrote:
    I cuts and pastes from a previous post on another thread.
    zukone wrote:

    Let's go to the Zuko beat Zhao twice argument. Zuko may not have had to have been that wonderful of a firebender to beat him. Zhao's impatience was his hindrance, and with Zuko's many run-ins with him, Zuko could have figured that out. Even if he hadn???t figured it out, there are other reasons why Zuko could have won. The first time Zuko beat him, he had a personal coach. To me that doesn't even count. To boot, he was told to go back to BASICS. HAH.

    Zuko has a brilliant fighting sense. That, coupled with his firebending, is what makes him so powerful. It may not necessarily be that his firebending is awesome, he just fuses it with his overall fighting style. This is a good combination to beat Zhao.


    True, but I think Zuko has come a long way since then. Before he was a mediocre bender, now he's a lot better.

    Did you see how he took on those Rough Rhinos guys?
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [140]Oct 7, 2006
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    The rabbit was me trying to stall until I had time to figure it out. Zuko has a fighting style fueled by zeal and righteous fury. He fights for lost causes and with endless determination. Zhao fights purely through rage. Zuko knows this and knows Zhao's patterns from his previous run ins. Zuko knows through his martial arts training how to close in his opponents and control thier movements. Zhao was on defence most of the time, which is not advantageous to a "rage fighter", which is only useful when attacking.

    Given time and the proper set up, Zuko can defeat his oppenent just being the better martial artist. Zhao wasn't a master firebender either, he just had rank. But a good point. I'll say that Zuko is in the 60th percentile of Firebenders from that point.
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