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Katara vs Zuko

  • Avatar of qweasdzse

    qweasdzse

    [141]Oct 7, 2006
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    Since katara can improve over such a short time by now she's probably 3 times better then him by now.
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  • Avatar of ThePipBoy

    ThePipBoy

    [142]Oct 7, 2006
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    It takes 3 months to go from untrained recruit to lethal user of Krav maga, the army and special forces martial art of choice. WHy? Because the difference between untrained and trained is massive. Katara went from nothing to something and it shows. It takes YEARS to go from trained to master. The higher up you are the MORE effort it takes to advance less.

    A soldier with all his 3 months of Krav Maga will still be utterly and completely destroyed by a well trained boxer. Katara is making progess by leaps and bound BECAUSE she is new.
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    Trollwrangler

    [143]Oct 7, 2006
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    I am loath to say this, but, Katara is probably stronger than Zuko now(but Zuko is not better than Jet with swords). Zuko has always been a strong bender, although that may not have shown all the time. Katara has the same powerful emotional drive that Zuko does, but she is more naturally talented. I am not endorsing the theory that Katara could hand Zuko his a$$. In ten fights; Katara would beat him narrowly seven times, tie twice, and lose once.
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  • Avatar of ThePipBoy

    ThePipBoy

    [144]Oct 7, 2006
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    Katara has the same powerful emotional drive as Zuko? Come now. Even characters in the show have acknowledged that Zuko is relentless, Sokka wasn't even scared that a blizzard might kill him because he just doesn't stop. She is indeed more naturally talented, but she isn't in the same league as the true geniuses of the elements.

    Zuko pushes harder, has more skills to draw on, has weapons with which to fight and spanked Katara POST-MASTER with the sun out.

    The only way she would win 7 out of 10 fights is if Lunar sympathy was on her side.

    She is always going to lose to Zuko during the day, which means she is already lost 5 matches out of 10. In a 30 day cycle about 3 days are given to each phase. And with new being an virtual equivalent of daylight then Katara is allready batting under .500.

    Logically speaking in more than half the scenarios they fight under she loses just based on cannon comabat. Whether she can even win with less than say, a gibbous moon is dubious.
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  • Avatar of hakeemadams94

    hakeemadams94

    [145]Oct 7, 2006
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    masterofaeons wrote:
    I'm not saying Zuko is completely incompetent. He's average. He'll use bending to survive, but PREFERS his hands on abilities. Azula would rather firebend or use lightning to win, she's not afraid to play her trump card early. Zuko plays it a little smarter than that, but doesn't keep up. Firebending underwater doesn't seem impossible. Until I see someone who can't do it, I'll believe anyone can. He's not halfway to using lightning, he's halfway to redirecting lightning. He's six lightyears away from even producing lightning. He's not a better bender than I give him credit for, he's exactly what I say he is. He didn't have the innate talent that his sister did, he forced himself to learn bending when he didn't understand the basics of it. He is not gifted with bending by any means, he is only smart enough to scrape by on life. I'm not insulting him. He's a far better character for it.

    WTH six light years away????All he needs to do is focus like iroh told him.I think iroh knows what he is talking about, but u ust making crap up.He is a great fir bender just because he can't bend lighting doesn't mean he is not a good benser.90% of the fire nation probably can't bend lighting either.All zuko needs to do is clear his mind and he will get it.

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  • Avatar of hakeemadams94

    hakeemadams94

    [146]Oct 7, 2006
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    zukone wrote:
    I cuts and pastes from a previous post on another thread.
    zukone wrote:
    Let's go to the Zuko beat Zhao twice argument. Zuko may not have had to have been that wonderful of a firebender to beat him. Zhao's impatience was his hindrance, and with Zuko's many run-ins with him, Zuko could have figured that out. Even if he hadn???t figured it out, there are other reasons why Zuko could have won. The first time Zuko beat him, he had a personal coach. To me that doesn't even count. To boot, he was told to go back to BASICS. HAH. Zuko has a brilliant fighting sense. That, coupled with his firebending, is what makes him so powerful. It may not necessarily be that his firebending is awesome, he just fuses it with his overall fighting style. This is a good combination to beat Zhao.

    What BS.He beat a damn general twice in a row.Stop making excuses up to make him look bad.The 2nd time they fought zuko owned him with no trainer.(Oh yeah zko was weak the 2nd time they fought because of the explosion and other things.)

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  • Avatar of hakeemadams94

    hakeemadams94

    [147]Oct 7, 2006
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    Trollwrangler wrote:
    I am loath to say this, but, Katara is probably stronger than Zuko now(but Zuko is not better than Jet with swords). Zuko has always been a strong bender, although that may not have shown all the time. Katara has the same powerful emotional drive that Zuko does, but she is more naturally talented. I am not endorsing the theory that Katara could hand Zuko his a$$. In ten fights; Katara would beat him narrowly seven times, tie twice, and lose once.

    Zuko is a better bender and a way better physical fighter then katara.

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  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [148]Oct 7, 2006
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    Zuko similar to Naruto and Rock Lee...??ppl who aren't exactly talented but they don't give up and work their a$$es off...to me Katara was slow at first but once she got warmed up began moving faster and getting better...Zuko trains and trains just hoping to be better than his sister who even he admits everything just comes easier to...Katara had that potential insider the whole time, but just had to get it out...that's why she's master now...but I don't call her a Master Master...more like a master...like being a teacher...
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  • Avatar of Trollwrangler

    Trollwrangler

    [149]Oct 7, 2006
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    Someone here may believe that I am a Katara sympathizer. NOT TRUE! I love the fighting style of Zuko way more than Katara's. However, I am also a depressingly accurate perciever of reality. Katara is a better bender. Not by much. But she is. Oh, and by the way, Katara is just as desperate to be a great bender as Zuko. Look at the second episode of season one(the avatar returns), she is willing to turn away from her own tribe to go to the North Pole to learn water bending.

    Off topic; how do you spell water bender? Are the two words together, hyphonated, or just seperate?

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  • Avatar of arthuroys

    arthuroys

    [150]Oct 8, 2006
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    hakeemadams94 wrote:

    zukone wrote:
    I cuts and pastes from a previous post on another thread.
    zukone wrote:
    Let's go to the Zuko beat Zhao twice argument. Zuko may not have had to have been that wonderful of a firebender to beat him. Zhao's impatience was his hindrance, and with Zuko's many run-ins with him, Zuko could have figured that out. Even if he hadn???t figured it out, there are other reasons why Zuko could have won. The first time Zuko beat him, he had a personal coach. To me that doesn't even count. To boot, he was told to go back to BASICS. HAH. Zuko has a brilliant fighting sense. That, coupled with his firebending, is what makes him so powerful. It may not necessarily be that his firebending is awesome, he just fuses it with his overall fighting style. This is a good combination to beat Zhao.

    What BS.He beat a damn general twice in a row.Stop making excuses up to make him look bad.The 2nd time they fought zuko owned him with no trainer.(Oh yeah zko was weak the 2nd time they fought because of the explosion and other things.)



    Well, it was already established from the first fight that Zhao was the inferior fighter and that he used brute force to overwhelm opponents (see: "the deserter").
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  • Avatar of metalcurtainrod

    metalcurtainrod

    [151]Oct 8, 2006
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    arthuroys wrote:
    hakeemadams94 wrote:

    zukone wrote:
    I cuts and pastes from a previous post on another thread.
    zukone wrote:
    Let's go to the Zuko beat Zhao twice argument. Zuko may not have had to have been that wonderful of a firebender to beat him. Zhao's impatience was his hindrance, and with Zuko's many run-ins with him, Zuko could have figured that out. Even if he hadn???t figured it out, there are other reasons why Zuko could have won. The first time Zuko beat him, he had a personal coach. To me that doesn't even count. To boot, he was told to go back to BASICS. HAH. Zuko has a brilliant fighting sense. That, coupled with his firebending, is what makes him so powerful. It may not necessarily be that his firebending is awesome, he just fuses it with his overall fighting style. This is a good combination to beat Zhao.

    What BS.He beat a damn general twice in a row.Stop making excuses up to make him look bad.The 2nd time they fought zuko owned him with no trainer.(Oh yeah zko was weak the 2nd time they fought because of the explosion and other things.)



    Well, it was already established from the first fight that Zhao was the inferior fighter and that he used brute force to overwhelm opponents (see: "the deserter").


    The firebenders value strength over anything. I doubt they'd make Zhao an admiral if he wasn't known for being a really good firebender.
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  • Avatar of pmgandrews

    pmgandrews

    [152]Oct 8, 2006
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    How anyone can say Zuko is a mediocre Bender is beyond me.

    He managed to firebend while under water and survived swimming in Artic Water by breating steam to warm him back up.
    Create a Fireball big enough to shatter Katara's Ice Bubble, and later blow steam from his nose hot enough to instantly melt the Ice pinning him to a wall.
    Then there's also the fact that he stalemated Katara, while she was boosted by the moon and he was weakened from injuries, stowing away and swimming through artic waters. She didn't land a hit when he focussed on her and used purely firebending..

    Lighting 50candles without burning the laturns, yet Zhao (One of the most powerful FireBenders, otherwise he wouldn't rank so high) sunk 3 of his own boats when trying to hit Aang
    Meaning in terms of control, he severely outranked a stated master.

    Zuko has shown by far the most versatility and creative uses in terms of Fire Benders. Azula is simply faster and stronger, but has yet to show half the stunts Zuko has pulled off with Fire Bending
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  • Avatar of AlbinoShadow

    AlbinoShadow

    [153]Oct 8, 2006
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    zuko is fire nation prince

    katara is peasant girl

    you do the math

    fire+water=steam(HOT AIR)

    you do the math

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  • Avatar of zukone

    zukone

    [154]Oct 8, 2006
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    metalcurtainrod wrote:
    arthuroys wrote:
    hakeemadams94 wrote:

    zukone wrote:
    I cuts and pastes from a previous post on another thread.
    zukone wrote:
    Let's go to the Zuko beat Zhao twice argument. Zuko may not have had to have been that wonderful of a firebender to beat him. Zhao's impatience was his hindrance, and with Zuko's many run-ins with him, Zuko could have figured that out. Even if he hadn???t figured it out, there are other reasons why Zuko could have won. The first time Zuko beat him, he had a personal coach. To me that doesn't even count. To boot, he was told to go back to BASICS. HAH. Zuko has a brilliant fighting sense. That, coupled with his firebending, is what makes him so powerful. It may not necessarily be that his firebending is awesome, he just fuses it with his overall fighting style. This is a good combination to beat Zhao.

    What BS.He beat a damn general twice in a row.Stop making excuses up to make him look bad.The 2nd time they fought zuko owned him with no trainer.(Oh yeah zko was weak the 2nd time they fought because of the explosion and other things.)



    Well, it was already established from the first fight that Zhao was the inferior fighter and that he used brute force to overwhelm opponents (see: "the deserter").


    The firebenders value strength over anything. I doubt they'd make Zhao an admiral if he wasn't known for being a really good firebender.

    Being an admiral would require more than just being a wonderful firebender. Actually, firebending would have little to do with qualifications. It would be how many cities he's taken for the firenation, how many missions he's successfully completed, how well he kisses up to the fire lord, and etc.

    His ruthlessness and in his pursuit for power helped him get his position.

    Let me also add this.?? If admiral Zhao was superb in fire bending it would be irrelevant.?? Zuko, being the superior FIGHTER (and not necessarily bender) won.
    Edited on 10/08/2006 8:41am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    Eman5805

    [155]Oct 8, 2006
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    as far as being a better figher Zuko wins out by a MILE over Katara...In the whole series I've only seen Katara throw TWO nonbending strikes in the show...both against Master Pakku and both didn't even come close to landing...Zuko is as good a hand to hand fighter as there is in this show...I mean we all remember his first battle vs. Zhao when he pulled a move so sweet it would have made Afrika Bambaataa cry...and then he showed his supreme nonbending related skills in "The Blue Spirit"...Katara is so weak as a fighter she's useless unless she can bend...but her bending skills make up for her pathetic fighting skills(if you can even call it that) so for now I'm saying Katara and Zuko is dead even...
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  • Avatar of zukone

    zukone

    [156]Oct 8, 2006
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    When looking at the bending, the visual display of element vs the bender might also give an indication of who is the better bender. In other words when someone bends, what do you see? Do you see the person, or do you see the bending. The writers know what they are doing. The visual is linked intrinsically to the plot and speaks what words don't.

    For Zuko, I always see him and his fighting. I almost feel as if the bending is not as important. For Jeong Jeong, a true master, I see the fire and his bond with it so apparently.?? His displays were incredible.?? For Katara, even excluding her boost in the north, I always see the bending. I can say it was comparable, visually, to her master's. (I am not referring to power and true mastery. I'll leave the argument of whether or not she is a master behind.)

    While we talk about versatility and we can create a list for both, even if the numbers are lob-sided, Katara's displays have been more impressive. Furthermore, there is no indication as to which level each bending technique is save for some. So, if one has more techniques than another it does not necessarily mean that he or she is the better bender. The scope and range of Katara's bending is farther than Zuko's WITHOUT a boost. Finally, the amount she bends in comparison to Zuko also appears to be more. That may just be the nature of fire and water. However, in this analysis, it seems significant.

    It just seems apparent to me, someone who is not attached more to one character over the other, who the better bender is. There is no bias. I believe that most, I will not say all, people who argue that Zuko is the better bender, have been clouded by their love for the character. Of course, and I don't know how many times I will say this, I am talking about bending and bending alone. I am not talking about fighting. Zuko is, by far, the better overall fighter.
    Edited on 10/08/2006 9:19am
    Edited 2 total times.
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    ThePipBoy

    [157]Oct 8, 2006
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    That is in fact the nature of water bending, the only person shown to firebend in any quantity is Jeong Jeong, even azula the pinnacle of firebending right now uses bolts of flame no larger than any other.
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    Eman5805

    [159]Oct 8, 2006
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    ThePipBoy wrote:
    That is in fact the nature of water bending, the only person shown to firebend in any quantity is Jeong Jeong, even azula the pinnacle of firebending right now uses bolts of flame no larger than any other.

    If they made the flame any larger it would probably be a danger to the user...

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  • Avatar of zukone

    zukone

    [160]Oct 8, 2006
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    When we are talking relative to the masters it is significant.

    When the sun rose, Zuko was able to emit a fireball. He needed a boost to do it. Jeong Jeong had so many tricks up his sleave that if?? Zuko did a fraction of that, it would bring his bending to the forefront. Azula, because she is supposedly bending more difficult thing, focuses her control on that. Making a traveling fireball may be considered something of a lower level to her.

    Also, because this series has to last a while, and the enemy is the fire nation, we are probably yet to see firebenders that are are closer to Jeong's level.

    The point was, and I believe still stands, that the visual is partially an indication of ability.
    Edited on 10/08/2006 10:22am
    Edited 2 total times.
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