| ranger8060 wrote: |
| wow..so much controversy |
Yeah... But you know what? Arguing over the nationality of a cartoon is stupid.
I say we all move on with life and let this thread die. Who's with me?
Nickelodeon (ended 2008)
| ranger8060 wrote: |
| wow..so much controversy |
| _Flutterlight_ wrote: |
| The Fire Nation is based off of Japan, right? Well, back before Japan's industrial revolution, arranged marriges were the standard- especially for royalty. |
They're obviously not *really* Japanese, or they would have called them Japanese, but they're definitely *based on* the Japanese and Chinese cultures because every last one the Fire Nation's most defining characteristics came from Japan or China.
To ignore that because it's not a perfect match is just seeing what you want to see instead of what's actually there. You just pick out the real-world rules you want to apply here, like the eye color thing that I've already explained follows a *completely different* model in the Avatar world, but you keep ignoring the big, blatant, obvious cultural indicators that say THIS WORLD IS NOT WHITE.
If you can't see that the Avatar world is Asian, I'm sorry, but you didn't understand the show at all. I'll ask you again. If you take out everything Asian and Inuit from Avatar, all the clothes, names, martial arts, philosophy, mythology, architecture, weapons, writing, mannerisms, language, and the fundamental anime-inspired *art style* of the show, what's left?
No one is saying the entire cast has to be Asian in the movie, but if you're going to use all of this Asian and Inuit stuff in it, there had better be some decent representation of the people who actually belong in those cultures. Or else it's called cultural appropriation, and that is a bad, bad, thing.
| ThisCrazyGuy wrote: | ||||
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| _Flutterlight_ wrote: | ||||
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And you REALLY think the actors look their parts? Like seriously, you see a resemblance in Jesse McCartney and Zuko?
I am talking about the smallest of things, and the most unimportant... You can't take a bird that isn't based and created off of Asian influence, and say that the Avatar world is dominantly Asian-based... Yeah, sure, we might run into a few Australian influences once in a while, but what do you call the influence on 99% of the Avatar world? I am a Mixed-Race person with BLUE eyes, and I have met MANY people who are the same, and so I think it is fairly common to be a tanned person (like, really tanned) with blue or green eyes, White people are not the only people that have them...
| Falcondude123 wrote: | ||||||
She replied, and I replied back. I'll give her this much: she is pretty civil about what she argues, despite being over-devoted to a silly cause. |
| ThisCrazyGuy wrote: | ||||||
And you REALLY think the actors look their parts? Like seriously, you see a resemblance in Jesse McCartney and Zuko? I am talking about the smallest of things, and the most unimportant... You can't take a bird that isn't based and created off of Asian influence, and say that the Avatar world is dominantly Asian-based... Yeah, sure, we might run into a few Australian influences once in a while, but what do you call the influence on 99% of the Avatar world? I am a Mixed-Race person with BLUE eyes, and I have met MANY people who are the same, and so I think it is fairly common to be a tanned person (like, really tanned) with blue or green eyes, White people are not the only people that have them... |
| _Flutterlight_ wrote: |
| And I still think arguing over a cartoon's nationality is stupid. |
| _Flutterlight_ wrote: |
| And I still think arguing over a cartoon's nationality is stupid. |
Which is why you keep coming back to argue about it, *obviously.*
If Avatar is like you say, 50% Asian, and 50% not (I think 90% and 10% personally), I'd still say the "not" doesn't have anything to worry about. Now if the film were being made in Hong Kong, then I'd worry about keeping the humor and the the gender balance and the other things that are more Western. But since the Americans are making it, the people in charge don't seem to realize they're working with an Asian-themed show at all, I'm going to worry about THAT.
| _Flutterlight_ wrote: | ||||||||
When I said Inuits, I meant 100% inuits. But after a small debate over wether I'd get blasted for that, I deleted it. I would also like to add that white people can be tanned too, especially if they live in a place where they get lots of sun. And I already agreed with you: Jessie McCarteny is a HORRIBLE choice for Zuko's actor. I only said I WOULD be happy if the cast looked and acted like their characters. I never said I actually was happy with them. My point was that while Avatar may be 50% Asian based, the other 50% comes from other places, like Australia, Mexico, Florida (The Swamp), inuits, and wherever hillbillies live. I feel that you and the "Aang ain't white" movement is downplaying the importance of that other 50%, and I feel that since you are so upset with a perceived lack of respect to the "Asianness" of Avatar, not respecting Avatar's other influences (the ones that I personally feel make Avatar Avatar and not just another Animea) is hypocracy. |
| ThisCrazyGuy wrote: | ||||||||
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| Falcondude123 wrote: | ||||||||||
I know they are, it's just I think that they are so engrossed in the principles of this issue that they are not being realistic about what sort of action to take. |
| ThisCrazyGuy wrote: | ||||||||||||
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| Chesis wrote: | ||
Which is why you keep coming back to argue about it, *obviously.* If Avatar is like you say, 50% Asian, and 50% not (I think 90% and 10% personally), I'd still say the "not" doesn't have anything to worry about. Now if the film were being made in Hong Kong, then I'd worry about keeping the humor and the the gender balance and the other things that are more Western. But since the Americans are making it, the people in charge don't seem to realize they're working with an Asian-themed show at all, I'm going to worry about THAT. |
| ThisCrazyGuy wrote: |
| I am not really as hardcore as the "Aang Ain't White" movement, comparing me to them is a bit naive... While I agree with them and support them 100%, I am nowhere near as annoyed with this as they are, believe me. And I'm not downplaying anything, I specifically said that there MAY, be other civilizations that influence a FEW things in the Avatar world, but about 85% (possibly more) of the Avatar world, is dominantly Asian/Inuit-based. When did I say that the Water Tribes weren't completely based off of the Inuit's? You say I don't mention the Inuit's, and yet they have been in basically every post of mine... 50%? Seriously? I would label it more along the lines of 15% of the Avatar world, being based off of other cultures besides Asia/Inuit civilization. |
| _Flutterlight_ wrote: |
| The Water Tribes (inuits aren't Asian), is at least 20% of Avatar, if not more, especailly because of Katara and Sokka, and by the way, I don't see any inuits complaining about their lack of representation. |
| _Flutterlight_ wrote: |
| And maybe instead of spending extra money looking for and hireing Asian and inuit actors, the people making the movie are going to spend their money and effort making really, really accurate set pieces and scenery, and good martial arts instructors for the actors, because like you said, it's really the culture that's important. Not how the characters (or actors) look. |
| _Flutterlight_ wrote: |
| I agree. If the "Asian" and "inuit" culture is so important, like ThisCrazyGuy keeps saying, shouldn't that be what the dirrectors focus on instead of casting ethnically "correct" actors? And say a child of Irish decent is adopted by and raised by inuit parents in an inuit community. The child is fully immersed in inuit culture, speaks the language, believes their beliefs, cooks and eats their food, follows their traditions, ect. Is the child inuit, or Irish? |
I've heard this argument before too. The kid is Inuit, but he's not the best example of someone from the Inuit culture. The thing about Hollywood is, perceptions are very, very important. The people who cast Avatar, cast white kids that *look* white, who audiences will *identify* as white. It doesn't matter if they were all raised on tea and dumplings and spoke perfect Japanese. In the movies, you have to look the part.
If you have a black character, you cast someone who looks black. If you have Asian characters, either cast people who look Asian, or guess what? They're not Asian. Because the audience won't be able to tell that they're supposed to be Asian.
