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the moments that you mentioned don't really convince me...

when she was fixing his hair, she was just helping out a friend, where as in the same episode Sam seemed to be trying to sabotage his chances(insulting her, slamming the door in her face.)

the bi-weekly body inspections, she was curious as to how he was getting away with having a tattoo, and when he explained to her (by bending the truth) she called him out on it... not so much teasing...

and using his love to her advantage- she is manipulating him for her personal gain, and one day hes gonna be sick of it and not cave(like he already almost did once).

"that she brings up how he's rarely sticky, her comment about turning his locker into a time machine"
-that is being read into more than it should be.. his responces:"its true, i haven't been sticky in weeks!"
and
"its a surveilence system." an agreement, and an explanation... sometimes comments are just comments...

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the girl talk thingy- i comepletely agree...otherwise she wouldn't have gone out with him, right?

but there was definately some jealousy on freddies part, he completely disliked her dating someone, and even carly at first said "c'mon, be happy for her" or something along those lines, when he mocked them behind their back.

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but other than that, to agree with camy... nice arguments...

I feel that the entire "Freddie is in LOVE with Carly" is just too over-the-top for me. I mean, its just like (sorry for the cross reference) how Oliver was completely obsessed with Hannah Montana. Simply superficial and meaningless, despite his persistent proclamations of love for her. I think the writers are simply using that storyline as a running joke for the series...showing us how Freddie will consistently abide to Carly's instructions regardless whether she's in the right or wrong, and that's the biggest flaw in Freddie's personality. Both Sam and Carly knew it, and they used that weakness of him to their advantage. Eventually, i think Carly might get sick of Freddie constantly following her around like a sick puppy, and to quote Miley/Hannah, "The girl that you thought you loved is standing right beside you, and the truth is... you don't love her.".

abz08 wrote:

Response to 1: The reason he asked, "Wanna kiss me?" is actually the exact opposite of what you guys are saying it insinuates. Because Freddie knows that that is one subject in which Sam will always put him down in. He knows it's the one sure-fire thing that would get him a scathing remark back in his face. It's the best way to provoke her. He wanted five bucks. It's the thing she loves to tease him on - how unloved he is. Simple as that. (Besides, she did start to insult him, so it worked.) ---

True, but one would wonder why "kissing" was the first thing that popped out of his head. Since you mentioned that Sam normally teased him about being "unloved", he could've asked if she loves him. But nope. He dared her to kiss him. Subconsciously in his mind, he's already thinking about the possibility of Sam kissing him, even though he knew that her answer would be 100% never.

abz08 wrote:

I know that's not what you meant though. You were looking at it from an entertainment aspect. Which would be more entertaining. And I'd have to agree - seeing Freddie and Sam try to make a relationship work would be very amusing. But that's not what a ship is to me. A ship should be what makes the character happy, what the character will enjoy the most, what is the best for THEM. ---

Personally for me, i watch both iCarly and Hannah Montana for pure entertainment and laughs. So, If i wanted to see a perfectly normal relationship about two people who constantly agree with each other and are super lovey-dovey with each other, I'd watch shows on CW and Fox. Or Zoey 101. Come to think of it, even Quinn and Logan are an example of Seddie's relationship. For a couple who initially couldn't stand the sight of each other and whom are constantly at loggerheads and throwing mean insults, they turned out alright. It could be the same for Seddie.

abz08 wrote:

If Carly can pin him down that means she's stronger. Which is wrong (to him). She hurt his manhood. ---

Somehow, that had me cracking. No comment.

abz08 wrote:

Anyway - even the second time he didn't actually say anything about letting him up. He just said, "Can we not tell anyone about this?" Because he doesn't want to be seen as the weakling. ---

Specifically, what he was implying was "Don't tell SAM about this". I mean, who else can she tell, right? Besides, everyone already knows that he's a weakling, looking at the numerous times that he was beaten up in public, by Sam AND by others. So i find it pointless that he bothers to ask Carly to keep that a secret.

Edited on 05/05/2008 12:08am

Freddie was jealous of Jona whether he realised it or not.

and I agree about the whole "Do you wanna kiss me?" line. because Freddie "hates" Sam right?

so why on earth would that be the first thing he asks her. its in the back of his mind alright lol

Freddie was jealous of Jona whether he realised it or not.

and I agree about the whole "Do you wanna kiss me?" line. because Freddie "hates" Sam right?

so why on earth would that be the first thing he asks her. its in the back of his mind alright lol

Sorry... I must have used the term "moments" a bit too broadly. Thsoe are kind of more just interactions between the two that I find adorable. Whereas you Seddies find the insults endearing. I like the gentler teasing and cute exchanges.

missyera wrote:

I feel that the entire "Freddie is in LOVE with Carly" is just too over-the-top for me. I mean, its just like (sorry for the cross reference) how Oliver was completely obsessed with Hannah Montana. Simply superficial and meaningless, despite his persistent proclamations of love for her. I think the writers are simply using that storyline as a running joke for the series...showing us how Freddie will consistently abide to Carly's instructions regardless whether she's in the right or wrong, and that's the biggest flaw in Freddie's personality. Both Sam and Carly knew it, and they used that weakness of him to their advantage. Eventually, i think Carly might get sick of Freddie constantly following her around like a sick puppy, and to quote Miley/Hannah, "The girl that you thought you loved is standing right beside you, and the truth is... you don't love her.".

I'm actually not sure what to do with that cross-reference. Because you are a Lilly/Oliver shipper and I am a Miley/Oliver shipper. And that is one scene which we most definitely interpret differently. One important difference though, is that Freddie knows who Carly is, and he still loves her. He is still her friend - and he loves her. Once Oliver found out MILEY was HM... his obsession stopped. ---

I'm not so sure about that exactly being the flaw in his character. You're close... but I would word it differently. I mean - he did stand up for himself quite a bit in "iWill Date Freddie", and things changed after that. ---

And I don't think that Freddie does follow Carly around like a sick puppy at ALL. And basically - all of that there - I think are void. It's taking Freddie's character and bending him into something he's not. ---

missyera wrote:

True, but one would wonder why "kissing" was the first thing that popped out of his head. Since you mentioned that Sam normally teased him about being "unloved", he could've asked if she loves him. But nope. He dared her to kiss him. Subconsciously in his mind, he's already thinking about the possibility of Sam kissing him, even though he knew that her answer would be 100% never.

No, I don't really have to wonder at all. Kissing is pretty much the quickest way to get into that whole area that she teases him in. Besides - 'love' is too big of a concept to handle. Kissing is something that 14 year olds think of and that is pretty much the essence of what he was talking about. I see nothing subconcious about it. Also - he didn't "dare" her. He asked, "You wanna kiss me?"

missyera wrote:

So, if I wanted to see a perfectly normal relationship about two people who constantly agree with each other and are super lovey-dovey with each other, I'd watch shows on CW and Fox.

People on the CW and Fox are super lovey-dovey and always agree with each other?

Yeah - no. I'm not sure when the last time was you watched one of those shows... but that's not how they work at all. Disney/Nick characters definitely agree and get along and are more lovey-dovey than any major network shows' characters are.

missyera wrote:

Come to think of it, even Quinn and Logan are an example of Seddie's relationship. For a couple who initially couldn't stand the sight of each other and whom are constantly at loggerheads and throwing mean insults, they turned out alright.

OH. MY. GOD. No they're NOT! Initially they hated each other - yes. This does NOT however, put them parallel to a possible Seddie relationship. ... They were most definitely NOT always throwing mean comments around at each other. EVERYONE has always said mean things about Logan, and EVERYONE always (maybe not as much to her face as he did - but they did) would say stuff about Quinn. They are NOT. STOP comparing them. Or I will hurt you.

missyera wrote:

Somehow, that had me cracking. No comment.

XD Good. It was kind of my intent. And once the phrase popped into my head I had to use it. XD

missyera wrote:

Specifically, what he was implying was "Don't tell SAM about this". I mean, who else can she tell, right? Besides, everyone already knows that he's a weakling, looking at the numerous times that he was beaten up in public, by Sam AND by others. So i find it pointless that he bothers to ask Carly to keep that a secret.

We disagree again Era... He was NOT implying to not tell Sam about it. There are DOZENS of people she could tell. For one - there are still plenty of girls in that school that could possibly like Freddie, are there not? He would be all over that aspect. PLUS - if she felt so inclined the whole world could know - out of the few things they would know about Freddie from watching iCarly. She has her own webshow. It's live. Sure, there's a better chance of it getting worked in if Sam were to find out - but Carly could just as easily find it funny and want to share it with the world. I mean - how random was the "rarely sticky" comment, really?

Honey, you'd better step away from the moliver. Like. Right now. Don't even get me started on this, because my fellow shippers and I have already analyzed this Oliver loving Hannah business a billion times over. Please do take your own advice and DO NOT throw other ships into the mix - keep it clean, keep it iCarly, otherwise, you'll just end up rising the fury within opposing shippers.

abz08 wrote:

I know that's not what you meant though. You were looking at it from an entertainment aspect. Which would be more entertaining. And I'd have to agree - seeing Freddie and Sam try to make a relationship work would be very amusing. But that's not what a ship is to me. A ship should be what makes the character happy, what the character will enjoy the most, what is the best for THEM. ---

I like my couples because they entertain me through their interactions. What fun is a couple that isn't entertaining to watch? That is basically the staple of all of YOUR ships as well - the entertainment aspect. And, in theory, you'd be saying that you think Freddie would enjoy Sam's abuse, and that it'd make him happy, and those kinds of put downs and bullying would be good for him. I disagree, because last time I checked, Freddie ain't smilin' when the abuse comes in. And if they did hook up...? I'd wager that Freddie had Battered Woman's Syndrome.

misseyera wrote:

Come to think of it, even Quinn and Logan are an example of Seddie's relationship. For a couple who initially couldn't stand the sight of each other and whom are constantly at loggerheads and throwing mean insults, they turned out alright. It could be the same for Seddie.

lol. I knew abz would jump right on this one xD

abz08 wrote:

missyera wrote:

Specifically, what he was implying was "Don't tell SAM about this". I mean, who else can she tell, right? Besides, everyone already knows that he's a weakling, looking at the numerous times that he was beaten up in public, by Sam AND by others. So i find it pointless that he bothers to ask Carly to keep that a secret.

We disagree again Era... He was NOT implying to not tell Sam about it. There are DOZENS of people she could tell. For one - there are still plenty of girls in that school that could possibly like Freddie, are there not? He would be all over that aspect.

Right awn

Exactly... Sam isn't the only other person alive, last time I checked...

Edited on 05/05/2008 1:39pm

*shakes head* Aww, Blaze honey, no she didn't. I said that. Era said this:

missyera wrote:

Personally for me, i watch both iCarly and Hannah Montana for pure entertainment and laughs. So, If i wanted to see a perfectly normal relationship about two people who constantly agree with each other and are super lovey-dovey with each other, I'd watch shows on CW and Fox. Or Zoey 101.

I do have to say though (in response to what you thought was Era) that I DO enjoy all of my ships' interactions - they just so happen to also make the character themselves happy. Seddie's does not. ---

Yes, I will ALWAYS jump on the Quogan-ness. Do not mess. ---

And YES!! Sam is not the only person on the planet. ---

*applauds Blaze*

Sorry... I must have used the term "moments" a bit too broadly. Thsoe are kind of more just interactions between the two that I find adorable. Whereas you Seddies find the insults endearing. I like the gentler teasing and cute exchanges.

I'm quoting you now so... keep battling!

I'm quoting you now so... keep battling!

aww.. you made me feel bad... but anyways...

Gander119 wrote:

Me,being a seddie supporter,knows that Carly and Freddie might have feelings for each other.I've seen these reasons in different threads.But,seddie supporters always have different reasons.But for Creddie supporters,it's all ''they love each other'' and ''Freddie likes Carly though.''Plus,Sam and Freddie have had some moments.

Like in iPilot,Sam said Carly would never like Freddie.That's a sign that Sam may be jealous of Carly liking Freddie,and giving a little clue that Sam likes Freddie.Sure,it's not written in stone,but it's a little point the right way.Bye.HAVE A NICE DAY!!!!!

i was gonna make a point similar to yours, that sam may be jealous of carly... why else would she want to remind him that Carly doesn't like him? she wants him to forget about her and give up... thats why she told freddie she loves him indirectly (on IMight Switch Schools) and then once again reminded him that Carly has no feelings for him... and notice..Carly never says anything to Sam when this happens...

I'm quoting you now so... keep battling!

You're reading WAAAAAY too much into that small fact. Which, I haven't seen in a while and can't really respond to. Except for - couldn't he just be embarassed in general? I mean, if Carly already knew that would be no big deal, but Sam knowing - she could spread that EVERYWHERE. And she would. Freddie wouldn't want that kind of humiliation.

Gander119 wrote:

Like in iPilot,Sam said Carly would never like Freddie.That's a sign that Sam may be jealous of Carly liking Freddie,and giving a little clue that Sam likes Freddie.

No, that doesn't quite equal jealousy. To me, simply the first step in her constant barage of insults - and she starts off with a commonly used one. He will never be loved. And no matter how many times it's used - it hurts every time. Nope, not even a hint of jealousy I'd say.

Edited on 05/05/2008 6:30pm

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