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Official Book 1: Air Discussion Thread

  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [181]May 1, 2012
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    Miista wrote:


    edmasterchaos wrote:
    Miista wrote:
    She has a lot of self doubt in herself and is afraid to speak up of her fears.
    Only in this episode so far, because in the previous one she saw a kind of foe she never imagined before. Someone who was making sense while saying that her entire existence was wrong. Amon's speech probably got into her, Korra from the start left it clear that she had no plan, she had no idea what she'd do as an Avatar, so it's not that difficult to make her doubt her beliefs. A disadvantage of being an 'acting' Avatar as such a young age.
    She's doing the same mistake as Aang and that's bottling it up inside herself, without speaking about it. It's only going to make her emotions escalate until one day - BOOM!


    Kinda. But for entirely different and perfectly justified reasons. While Aang feared the Avatar state, Korra is terrified at the villain that is making sense, can defeat her, is the first thing she has not been able to knock out and Korra has been with her current group of friends for two or three weeks, not too long to trust all her new emotions too.
    Also, Korra did speak up her emotions in the end of the episode.
    My point here is that while the 'not telling people' thing is kinda similar to something Aang faced a few times, the reasoning is entirely different and Korra is reacting to it differently already, hence it's not 'just like Aang'


    Miista wrote:
    edmasterchaos wrote:
    Miista wrote:
    She avoids the problem, rather than tackling it.
    Only this time so far because she had no idea How to tackle it and was worried her bending would be taken away.
    Your point? It was the same with Aang, except different scenario where Aang had to defeat Fire Lord Ozai to end the war, but they both are trying to restore balance in a sense (Aang had to restore balance in the world) and now Korra is just restoring the balances that still need help from the Avatar.


    No... as i said, Korra has no idea how to tackle it and the danger is different. Aang had it clean cut, beat the fire lord and the world is saved. Korra has been told and shown several times that non-benders have it rough, so fighting Amon head-on is probably not the right choice.
    My point here is that Korra's avoidance of the problem is because it's not black and white, even her mentor figure has been against fighting Amon right away (see how he was against the taskforce) while Aang always wanted to defeat the firelord, if anything Aang had a conflict towards the end because he didn't want to kill, but 57 episodes prior to that he was OK with beating up the firelord.


    Miista wrote:
    Can you show an example of where Toph learnt restraint? The only episode I can think of would be Season 3: Fire, Episode 7 - 'The Runaway', but even that's unclear as an exemplar. Lol, is there a relation to what you just said towards what I said? Your relating of ideas is unclear... can you just elaborate, thanks?


    She wanted to listen to Zuko, even after he burnt her feet. Rather than enter a fight with the sandbenders, she realized her limits and made the choice of saving the Gaang. Maybe the tales of Ba Sing Se can be stuffed in here since Toph wasn't the one to attack the girls that made fun of her, but eh.
    My point was, Korra doesn't really share that many traits with Toph. They're both action girls, yeah, but the very style of Toph's fighting is to react, unlike Korra. Basically, your comparison to Toph isn't what you thought it was.


    Miista wrote:
    edmasterchaos wrote:
    As for the irrational right, again, no identity from a nation, she was completely unsure how to tackle Amon (specially since she was just learning that tackling things head-on wasn't always the answer thanks to her airbending training) and suddenly Tarrlok pushed her into the raid, a fight that earned her respect from an authority figure and the city, so that pushed her to thinking that fighting Amon was the right choice.
    Her identity from a nation is irrelevant to the problem. Unlike Aang who had his race wiped out, Korra still has hers and it's not a thought that effects her since it's not a problem that relates to the twist of the story. Does that make sense? Moreover, I'm really unsure what you're arguing about? Are you just reiterating things that I know of and seen or are you trying to prove a point, because... I don't see yours? You haven't really made one? I don't really see a disagreement with what I've said, only unclear and uncertain statements.


    It is EXTREMELY relevant to everything. Like. It's how Korra fits in her character's core to the tradition vs progression theme in the show. Think of one of the last things in A:TLA, it was said that the Avatar Spirit is born in a human in order for the spirit to be connected with people, in order to always know what the problems in the world were. A simple god figure isn't what the world needed.
    Now, Korra is human, yes. But she's not like the previous Avatars, Aang lived for twelve years as an airbender. He learned to think as one, to live as one. Roku did the same for sixteen years, he was a proud fire nation man. Korra was the avatar at the age of six, rather than live as a water tribe girl she lived as the Avatar. Her foundation to how she saw life was unlike any other avatar, she is a new, progressive perhaps kind of Avatar. But that also comes with the disadvantage that she is not a water tribe girl, she isn't thinking like that, Aang was thinking like an air nomad during the series, previous Avatars thought like a person of their nation during their training while also learning of other nations, Korra... was kept in a camp, and now she's in the city.
    Korra has been restricted, it doesn't matter that there are also water tribe people by the bucket, she never really was with them, unlike Aang who lived with his people for twelve years.
    Plus, these are entirely new problems, this isn't "oh, this guy wants to conquer the world with war. Gotta kick his ass!" like previous Avatars, this is a problem that's brewing from a society that has existed for about 60 years or less.


    The point i'm making is: Korra has an entirely new way of thinking and she has no true ties to the culture of her people because she was revealed as the Avatar, as such she doesn't know of lectures or history she cares about to fallback to, that leads to her 'irrational behavior'.


    Miista wrote:
    edmasterchaos wrote:
    What fights did Aang fail again?
    Have you not seen Avatar: The Last Airbender? Because if you have, then try not to act oblivious to the fights Aang has failed at. Oddly enough you're able to recall upon what you've stated above, but not the failed fights? I'll give you a clue to a really obvious one - he got shot by lightning to his back.


    As i mentioned above, that fight was not so much Aang failing as it was Azula winning. Yes, i know, i sound like a wanna-be intellectual when saying that, but it's true. That wasn't some BS shonen anime fight where a character could be struck in the back by hell's fire but be ok because his power up was untouchable and gave him time to dodge 'faster than the eye can see' This was Aang doing everything right, pulling off some mighty will power and simply being outdone by a perfectly strategic Azula.
    Azula lost, but Aang couldn't have defended himself from it.
    My point here is that: Aang may have failed a few fights, but not that many. He was a competent fighter.

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  • Avatar of pokemonmonmon

    pokemonmonmon

    [182]May 1, 2012
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    edmasterchaos wrote:


    As i mentioned above, that fight was not so much Aang failing as it was Azula winning. Yes, i know, i sound like a wanna-be intellectual when saying that, but it's true. That wasn't some BS shonen anime fight where a character could be struck in the back by hell's fire but be ok because his power up was untouchable and gave him time to dodge 'faster than the eye can see' This was Aang doing everything right, pulling off some mighty will power and simply being outdone by a perfectly strategic Azula.


    Azula lost, but Aang couldn't have defended himself from it.
    My point here is that: Aang may have failed a few fights, but not that many. He was a competent fighter.


    im just going to butt in here and say you never said "aang lost few fights" you previously said "aang lost NO FIGHTS" and ill repeat what i already said, azula was thrashing aang in that fight and thats the whole reason he went avatar state because he was LOSING. he didnt want to since it would mean giving up katara but he did anyway because he didnt want to lose the fight. katara was the one giving them a challenge not aang. same thing goes for when he fought azula at the great wall of ba sing se. the only reason he won is because he pulled a last minute stunt. azuka couldve won if she wasnt being so cocky. she wanted aang to beconsciousfor his defeat which is why she waited for him to wake up before trying to finish him. unfortunately for her, hes the avatar so some last minute eartbending saved him. true aang is a very good fighter but alot of his fights were based on luck and support. lets also try to remember this is still early in the series and korra ahsnt been in enough fights to say who is the better bender. i mean considering that she had 3 elements learned at age 6 id say shes already out doing aang.

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  • Avatar of Nerdnot

    Nerdnot

    [183]May 1, 2012
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    pokemonmonmon wrote:

    edmasterchaos wrote:


    As i mentioned above, that fight was not so much Aang failing as it was Azula winning. Yes, i know, i sound like a wanna-be intellectual when saying that, but it's true. That wasn't some BS shonen anime fight where a character could be struck in the back by hell's fire but be ok because his power up was untouchable and gave him time to dodge 'faster than the eye can see' This was Aang doing everything right, pulling off some mighty will power and simply being outdone by a perfectly strategic Azula.


    Azula lost, but Aang couldn't have defended himself from it.
    My point here is that: Aang may have failed a few fights, but not that many. He was a competent fighter.


    im just going to butt in here and say you never said "aang lost few fights" you previously said "aang lost NO FIGHTS" and ill repeat what i already said, azula was thrashing aang in that fight and thats the whole reason he went avatar state because he was LOSING. he didnt want to since it would mean giving up katara but he did anyway because he didnt want to lose the fight. katara was the one giving them a challenge not aang. same thing goes for when he fought azula at the great wall of ba sing se. the only reason he won is because he pulled a last minute stunt. azuka couldve won if she wasnt being so cocky. she wanted aang to beconsciousfor his defeat which is why she waited for him to wake up before trying to finish him. unfortunately for her, hes the avatar so some last minute eartbending saved him. true aang is a very good fighter but alot of his fights were based on luck and support. lets also try to remember this is still early in the series and korra ahsnt been in enough fights to say who is the better bender. i mean considering that she had 3 elements learned at age 6 id say shes already out doing aang.

    Aang did not pull a last minute stint. You need to watch that episode again. If anything it wasn't last minute. LUCK? Most of his fights he win are because of Air bending techniques. IN TECH. Aang is a better than Korra because he was a Fully Relized Avatar at the age of 12.
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  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [184]May 1, 2012
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    Aang and Azula's second fight I would not say Azula had it won or that it was own arrogance that losther the battle. One thing Azula wasn't waiting for Aang for reain consciousness. The drilling delayed her because they shook a little and she was charing up for an attack. Aang got his second wind, but their battle field ruind it and had Azula slip and knock Aang out. That fight thye were pretty evenly matched. Now when they fought in the caves Azula dominated him.


    I wouldn't compare Aangand Korra on who is better bender or Avatar yet. Korra was able to access three elements at 6, but Aang mastered the otherthree elements in 9 months along with the Avatar State and learned energy bending. I don't know how we can compare them at this point. Korra is impressive herself. She learned how to use three elements at 6. I am not that surprised though. The Avatar doesn't learn bending, but is just reminded of it. Remeber how Aang instantly learned water bending after Katara showed him a few moves once? I can't imagine Korra is the only Avatar who discovered their gifts at early age.

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  • Avatar of shadowscott

    shadowscott

    [185]May 1, 2012
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    RaizenYusuke wrote:

    Aang and Azula's second fight I would not say Azula had it won or that it was own arrogance that losther the battle. One thing Azula wasn't waiting for Aang for reain consciousness. The drilling delayed her because they shook a little and she was charing up for an attack. Aang got his second wind, but their battle field ruind it and had Azula slip and knock Aang out. That fight thye were pretty evenly matched. Now when they fought in the caves Azula dominated him.


    I wouldn't compare Aangand Korra on who is better bender or Avatar yet. Korra was able to access three elements at 6, but Aang mastered the otherthree elements in 9 months along with the Avatar State and learned energy bending. I don't know how we can compare them at this point. Korra is impressive herself. She learned how to use three elements at 6. I am not that surprised though. The Avatar doesn't learn bending, but is just reminded of it. Remeber how Aang instantly learned water bending after Katara showed him a few moves once? I can't imagine Korra is the only Avatar who discovered their gifts at early age.



    that's true. You really can't compare them at this point. Different world, different circumstances...

    in regards to the azula thing. She knocks him back into the wall and he falls down. She (probably casually) walks over to him and picks him up, holds him against the wall, and puts her hand out and gets a fireball ready, where aang wakes up a bit and blocks him... she definitely did prolong that. she coulda just walked over and fireballed his face.
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  • Avatar of qtwanderer

    qtwanderer

    [186]May 2, 2012
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    Its called taunting. I would do the same if I faced some legendary entity, arrogant and just kicked them around. Aang eyes-closed made it worse, as you would want them to see it happening. Such beautiful torture to see their death coming at them.


    Shes a predator and she saw him as prey, prey that would be interesting to finish.

    Edited on 05/01/2012 11:10pm
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  • Avatar of Empace

    Empace

    [187]May 2, 2012
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    qtwanderer wrote:

    Aang eyes-closed made it worse, as you would want them to see it happening. Such beautiful torture to see their death coming at them.



    Sounds like Azula was an unsub in criminal minds.
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  • Avatar of shadowscott

    shadowscott

    [188]May 2, 2012
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    qtwanderer wrote:

    Its called taunting. I would do the same if I faced some legendary entity, arrogant and just kicked them around. Aang eyes-closed made it worse, as you would want them to see it happening. Such beautiful torture to see their death coming at them.


    Shes a predator and she saw him as prey, prey that would be interesting to finish.


    And her taunting gave Aang the edge. So it's still safe to saw he lost that fight.
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  • Avatar of MarcolapinMar

    MarcolapinMar

    [189]May 2, 2012
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    Nerdnot wrote:
    pokemonmonmon wrote:


    edmasterchaos wrote:


    As i mentioned above, that fight was not so much Aang failing as it was Azula winning. Yes, i know, i sound like a wanna-be intellectual when saying that, but it's true. That wasn't some BS shonen anime fight where a character could be struck in the back by hell's fire but be ok because his power up was untouchable and gave him time to dodge 'faster than the eye can see' This was Aang doing everything right, pulling off some mighty will power and simply being outdone by a perfectly strategic Azula.


    Azula lost, but Aang couldn't have defended himself from it.
    My point here is that: Aang may have failed a few fights, but not that many. He was a competent fighter.


    im just going to butt in here and say you never said "aang lost few fights" you previously said "aang lost NO FIGHTS" and ill repeat what i already said, azula was thrashing aang in that fight and thats the whole reason he went avatar state because he was LOSING. he didnt want to since it would mean giving up katara but he did anyway because he didnt want to lose the fight. katara was the one giving them a challenge not aang. same thing goes for when he fought azula at the great wall of ba sing se. the only reason he won is because he pulled a last minute stunt. azuka couldve won if she wasnt being so cocky. she wanted aang to beconsciousfor his defeat which is why she waited for him to wake up before trying to finish him. unfortunately for her, hes the avatar so some last minute eartbending saved him. true aang is a very good fighter but alot of his fights were based on luck and support. lets also try to remember this is still early in the series and korra ahsnt been in enough fights to say who is the better bender. i mean considering that she had 3 elements learned at age 6 id say shes already out doing aang.


    Aang did not pull a last minute stint. You need to watch that episode again. If anything it wasn't last minute. LUCK? Most of his fights he win are because of Air bending techniques. IN TECH. Aang is a better than Korra because he was a Fully Relized Avatar at the age of 12.



    Why they never tried to teach korra airbending ? She mastered 3 elements already around the same age. The only thing I see is that they wanted to make Korra more immature or maybe they wanted to show the avatar like something obsolete in the modern age.

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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [190]May 2, 2012
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    ^The only airbending master out there was busy most of the time.
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  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [191]May 2, 2012
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    shadowscott wrote:
    qtwanderer wrote:

    Its called taunting. I would do the same if I faced some legendary entity, arrogant and just kicked them around. Aang eyes-closed made it worse, as you would want them to see it happening. Such beautiful torture to see their death coming at them.


    Shes a predator and she saw him as prey, prey that would be interesting to finish.


    And her taunting gave Aang the edge. So it's still safe to saw he lost that fight.
    It is hard for me to say either won. Right when they were about to continue they both fell off the drill then Aang focused on destroying the thing the fight was over the game winning play just happen to literally ow Azula away. It has been a while since I have seen the episode, but I remember them being pretty evenly matched until Azula knocked him out for a bit. If I was going to count it as win. I would say it is Aang's. Azula might have been able to win if she just attacked him, but the same could be said about Aang in their fight in the tunnels. If the Dai Lee did not interfere Aang's last attack which huge and Zuko and Azula weren't making any moves to stop it. But I must admit Aang never beat Azula in a straight up fight. I was kind of disappointed in since I was hoping for a rematch between them before the original series ended.
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  • Avatar of AllieAllie

    AllieAllie

    [192]May 2, 2012
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    MarcolapinMar wrote:


    Nerdnot wrote:
    pokemonmonmon wrote:


    edmasterchaos wrote:


    As i mentioned above, that fight was not so much Aang failing as it was Azula winning. Yes, i know, i sound like a wanna-be intellectual when saying that, but it's true. That wasn't some BS shonen anime fight where a character could be struck in the back by hell's fire but be ok because his power up was untouchable and gave him time to dodge 'faster than the eye can see' This was Aang doing everything right, pulling off some mighty will power and simply being outdone by a perfectly strategic Azula.


    Azula lost, but Aang couldn't have defended himself from it.
    My point here is that: Aang may have failed a few fights, but not that many. He was a competent fighter.


    im just going to butt in here and say you never said "aang lost few fights" you previously said "aang lost NO FIGHTS" and ill repeat what i already said, azula was thrashing aang in that fight and thats the whole reason he went avatar state because he was LOSING. he didnt want to since it would mean giving up katara but he did anyway because he didnt want to lose the fight. katara was the one giving them a challenge not aang. same thing goes for when he fought azula at the great wall of ba sing se. the only reason he won is because he pulled a last minute stunt. azuka couldve won if she wasnt being so cocky. she wanted aang to beconsciousfor his defeat which is why she waited for him to wake up before trying to finish him. unfortunately for her, hes the avatar so some last minute eartbending saved him. true aang is a very good fighter but alot of his fights were based on luck and support. lets also try to remember this is still early in the series and korra ahsnt been in enough fights to say who is the better bender. i mean considering that she had 3 elements learned at age 6 id say shes already out doing aang.


    Aang did not pull a last minute stint. You need to watch that episode again. If anything it wasn't last minute. LUCK? Most of his fights he win are because of Air bending techniques. IN TECH. Aang is a better than Korra because he was a Fully Relized Avatar at the age of 12.



    Why they never tried to teach korra airbending ? She mastered 3 elements already around the same age. The only thing I see is that they wanted to make Korra more immature or maybe they wanted to show the avatar like something obsolete in the modern age.



    What ed said above, plus she had to master the other elements first. In the first episode, Korra had only just mastered firebending, and it was only after that that they tried to get Tenzin to start teaching her.

    Edited on 05/02/2012 11:52am
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  • Avatar of Empace

    Empace

    [193]May 2, 2012
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    AllieAllie wrote:

    MarcolapinMar wrote:


    Nerdnot wrote:
    pokemonmonmon wrote:


    edmasterchaos wrote:


    As i mentioned above, that fight was not so much Aang failing as it was Azula winning. Yes, i know, i sound like a wanna-be intellectual when saying that, but it's true. That wasn't some BS shonen anime fight where a character could be struck in the back by hell's fire but be ok because his power up was untouchable and gave him time to dodge 'faster than the eye can see' This was Aang doing everything right, pulling off some mighty will power and simply being outdone by a perfectly strategic Azula.


    Azula lost, but Aang couldn't have defended himself from it.
    My point here is that: Aang may have failed a few fights, but not that many. He was a competent fighter.


    im just going to butt in here and say you never said "aang lost few fights" you previously said "aang lost NO FIGHTS" and ill repeat what i already said, azula was thrashing aang in that fight and thats the whole reason he went avatar state because he was LOSING. he didnt want to since it would mean giving up katara but he did anyway because he didnt want to lose the fight. katara was the one giving them a challenge not aang. same thing goes for when he fought azula at the great wall of ba sing se. the only reason he won is because he pulled a last minute stunt. azuka couldve won if she wasnt being so cocky. she wanted aang to beconsciousfor his defeat which is why she waited for him to wake up before trying to finish him. unfortunately for her, hes the avatar so some last minute eartbending saved him. true aang is a very good fighter but alot of his fights were based on luck and support. lets also try to remember this is still early in the series and korra ahsnt been in enough fights to say who is the better bender. i mean considering that she had 3 elements learned at age 6 id say shes already out doing aang.


    Aang did not pull a last minute stint. You need to watch that episode again. If anything it wasn't last minute. LUCK? Most of his fights he win are because of Air bending techniques. IN TECH. Aang is a better than Korra because he was a Fully Relized Avatar at the age of 12.



    Why they never tried to teach korra airbending ? She mastered 3 elements already around the same age. The only thing I see is that they wanted to make Korra more immature or maybe they wanted to show the avatar like something obsolete in the modern age.



    What ed said above, plus she had to master the other elements first. In the first episode, Korra had only just mastered firebending, and it was only after that that they tried to get Tenzin to start teaching her.



    I assume Korra is better than Aang was at waterbending, earthbenging and firebending. It is however strange that they did not try to teach her airbending earlier.
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  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [194]May 2, 2012
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    It is not odd to me. Korra was training at one element at a time and in order. Aang only learned them all around the same time because he needed to master or know enough to defeat Ozai in little less than a year. Korra's era is similar to Roku's era. It is peace time, which means Korra got the proper training, one element at a time. Despite Korra using three elements at 6 in the first episode it took her 11 years to fully master water, earth, and fire and she is just now getting ready to learn air than the Avatar state.


    The only thing that is odd is that the White Lotus kept Korra confined to the Southern Water Tribe, from what appears to be away from everyone else from her tribeand they took masters to her so she can learn from them.

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  • Avatar of Nerdnot

    Nerdnot

    [195]May 2, 2012
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    RaizenYusuke wrote:

    It is not odd to me. Korra was training at one element at a time and in order. Aang only learned them all around the same time because he needed to master or know enough to defeat Ozai in little less than a year. Korra's era is similar to Roku's era. It is peace time, which means Korra got the proper training, one element at a time. Despite Korra using three elements at 6 in the first episode it took her 11 years to fully master water, earth, and fire and she is just now getting ready to learn air than the Avatar state.


    The only thing that is odd is that the White Lotus kept Korra confined to the Southern Water Tribe, from what appears to be away from everyone else from her tribeand they took masters to her so she can learn from them.

    Aang tasked the White Lotus of keeping Korra safe while she learned the 4 elements.
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  • Avatar of RaizenYusuke

    RaizenYusuke

    [196]May 2, 2012
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    I get that Aang told them to keep her safe, but she has been isolated from the very people she is supposed to protect. I agreed with Korra when she said she did not think Aang wanted her to be kept on lock down for most of her life. It is still stands out as odd compared to the past Avatars that went out into the world to seek out masters to train them.
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  • Avatar of ShagonsHeart

    ShagonsHeart

    [197]May 2, 2012
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    RaizenYusuke wrote:
    I get that Aang told them to keep her safe, but she has been isolated from the very people she is supposed to protect. I agreed with Korra when she said she did not think Aang wanted her to be kept on lock down for most of her life. It is still stands out as odd compared to the past Avatars that went out into the world to seek out masters to train them.


    I also find that a little strange but I have a theory as to why. They mentioned in passing Aang took on another villain about 42 years ago, I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but it sounded like he wasn't as passive as he was when he was a kid. In the little flashbacks Korra had showing an adult Sokka, Toph and Aang makes me think they were all involved somehow. Aang looked pretty pissed. Maybe Aang still had other enemies when he was dying and told the White Lotis to keep her safe fearing they'd try to take revenge.


    Just a thought. But I agree it left her at a disadvantage when it comes to dealing with people and matters she doesn't fully understand. Going by Roku's progress the Avatar is suppose to leave home be trained in the native land of each element again putting her at a disadvantage. It also looked like it took him well into adulthood to master them all the proper way. Korra's a little ahead of the game. As for Aang he didn't have much choice but to master them all at once in a very short period of time like what's been stated above.


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    MajLorne

    [198]May 2, 2012
    • member since: 01/31/08
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    Agreed, but then again those were when each nations were their own rather than one unified republic and people mixing together. So it's not like she could travel to the earth kingdom after training with the northern tribe. I guess it was Aang being too protective and with the White lotus, you have the 3 major elements to properly teach her so she at least has enough to protect herself in such a vast world. I dunno what it was like for the other Avatars, but at least Aang had his friends to help him thru things. I'm not sure if the White Lotus people would be more friends and less 'secret service'/bodyguards.
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    RaizenYusuke

    [199]May 3, 2012
    • member since: 06/15/05
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    Aang might have intended for the White Lotus to protect Korra by sending members to go with her on her journey. Aang hated when the Air Nomads tried to take him away from Gyatso and isolated him from everyone else. I cannot see Aang doing that to his successor. Unless he sensed or knew this Amon thing was going down. We realy need o have Korra come into contact with Aang to find out what he was thinking toward the end of his life.
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    MajLorne

    [200]May 3, 2012
    • member since: 01/31/08
    • level: 21
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    I totally agree.
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