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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Sozin's Comet (Series Finale) Official Discussion Thread - (*Major Spoilers*)

Rate the finale! How was it?

  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [4321]Sep 10, 2008
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    avataraang113 wrote:
    oh my gosh people!!! how do you take a screenshot on itunes????

    You use "printscreen", copy and paste it on paint, save, then upload it on tinypic/photobucket.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4322]Sep 10, 2008
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    I know that the argument about the possible ramifications of there being an audiance to the finale Agni Kai is pretty much over, but I'd like to offer an opinion on how it may have ultimately been irrelevant, based on an interesting piece of history concerning (you guessed it) Julius Caesar.

    In the year 56 BC, Julius Caesar was having the fight of his life, embroiled in a war to conquer Gaul (modern day france, for you non history buffs), that would ultimately stretch on for ten long years before the barbarians finally submitted. Caesar was not in a very good position. He had only about 50,000 men with which to take on a war-force that altogether numbered in the millions. In order to win, Caesar had to fight dirty.

    Perhaps the dirtiest victory of them all that he won occurred in 56 BC, against a horde of German barbarians who had come after Caesar and his army. He was outnumbered more than four to one by veteran enemy warriors who looked to be about to easily destroy him. Caesar's solution to the problem was to invite the Chieftain leading the barbarians to dinner. Servents set up a tent, with a table and a full meal carefully laid out inside, in the middle of a wide, open field. At either end of the field, the full armies of both the Romans and the Barbarians were camped, ready to attack the moment anything appeared to be going amiss with the meeting between the two war leaders.

    Initially, everything appeared to be fine. Both Caesar and the Chieftain had left their weapons behind and were unarmed. Both pledged their solemn words of honor that they would not attempt to harm eachother in any way over the course of the meal. Everything was going swimmingly until halfway through the meal, when Caesar suddenly jumped clean across the table to land on top of the startled barbarian. Caesar then proceeded to stab his enemy to death with a steak knife. This done, he immediatly ran outside, killing the barbarian warriors who had come with their chief to the dinner with his trusty steak knife, jumped on his horse, and galloped back to his army at the Roman end of the field, while behind him the barbarians errupted in outrage, incensed at Caesar's treacherous slaying of their leader.

    As soon as he was back amongst his men, Caesar immediatly ordered them to attack the barbarian horde. He had correctly realised the barbarian's main weakness - they were, quite frankly, stupid, at least as far as battle tactics went. Without their Chieftain, the only man among them capable of coming up with good tactics, they were helpless before the disciplined Roman Legions, guided by Caesar's impeccable strategy.

    In the aftermath of the battle, a number of high ranking officers and senators who had been with the Roman Army came to Caesar and demanded an explanation for his blatent violation of his promise not to harm the Chieftain during their meal. Caesar's swift reply was that the chieftain had been a barbarian - and as such promises to him, even words of honor, did not count. The only person to whom a Roman's word of honor truly counted was another Roman. A few of the senators didn't quite accept this, and continued pestering him about it. Caesar told them that he still had the steak knife. The senators stopped complaining.

    Edited on 09/10/2008 4:30pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [4323]Sep 10, 2008
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    Axrendale, even though that's a great story, you haven't related it to Azula, really, and said why it was justifiable. Lmao.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4324]Sep 10, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale, even though that's a great story, you haven't related it to Azula, really, and said why it was justifiable. Lmao.

    It's not about justifying Azula's move in the Agni Kai, it's about why it wouldn't have mattered if a crowd had been there to see the Agni Kai. Azula could always have spun something up about how Agni Kai rules did not apply to Water Tribe peasants, or how Zuko had been exiled, and had no honor, so it was justifiable, etc, etc. If anyone had dared to contradict her, she would have just banished them, and been done with it.

    Edited on 09/10/2008 4:25pm
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [4325]Sep 10, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale, even though that's a great story, you haven't related it to Azula, really, and said why it was justifiable. Lmao.

    It's not about justifying Azula, it's about why it wouldn't have mattered if a crowd had been there to see the Agni Kai. Azula could always have spun something up about how Agni Kai rules did not apply to Water Tribe peasants, or how Zuko had been exiled, and had no honor, so it was justifiable, etc, etc. If anyone had dared to contradict her, she would have just banished them, and been done with it.


    Well, when I said "justifiable" I didn't mean Azula, just the move she made.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4326]Sep 10, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale, even though that's a great story, you haven't related it to Azula, really, and said why it was justifiable. Lmao.

    It's not about justifying Azula, it's about why it wouldn't have mattered if a crowd had been there to see the Agni Kai. Azula could always have spun something up about how Agni Kai rules did not apply to Water Tribe peasants, or how Zuko had been exiled, and had no honor, so it was justifiable, etc, etc. If anyone had dared to contradict her, she would have just banished them, and been done with it.

    Well, when I said "justifiable" I didn't mean Azula, just the move she made.

    Yeah, I know. That's what the whole point of that historical comparison was - to point out that the fact that the head-honcho breaking the rules usually has very little effect on the subordinates. They know where their loyalties lie, and as long as an explanation is provided, they support it.

    Edited on 09/10/2008 4:27pm
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [4327]Sep 10, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Axrendale, even though that's a great story, you haven't related it to Azula, really, and said why it was justifiable. Lmao.

    It's not about justifying Azula, it's about why it wouldn't have mattered if a crowd had been there to see the Agni Kai. Azula could always have spun something up about how Agni Kai rules did not apply to Water Tribe peasants, or how Zuko had been exiled, and had no honor, so it was justifiable, etc, etc. If anyone had dared to contradict her, she would have just banished them, and been done with it.

    Well, when I said "justifiable" I didn't mean Azula, just the move she made.

    Yeah, I know. That's what the whole point of that historical comparison was - to point out that the fact that the head-honcho has just broken the rules usually has very little effect on the subordinates. They know where their loyalties lie, and as long as an explanation is provided, they support it.


    Which is epic. As long as they don't break the rules, which Azula (was very close to but) DIDN'T, then I think it's respectable how people can use their surroundings so effectively. It takes a lot of intelligence to muster up these plans.
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    avataraang113

    [4328]Sep 10, 2008
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    i dont understand what ur guy's argument is about.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4329]Sep 10, 2008
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    avataraang113 wrote:
    i dont understand what ur guy's argument is about.

    It's my rebuttal to a post made by Sektos a few pages back about how if there had been an audiance watching the finale Agni Kai, they would have supported Zuko over the whole "honor" issue.

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    avataraang113

    [4330]Sep 10, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    avataraang113 wrote:
    i dont understand what ur guy's argument is about.

    It's my rebuttal to a post made by Sektos a few pages back about how if there had been an audiance watching the finale Agni Kai, they would have supported Zuko over the whole "honor" issue.

    so...you mean they would be on his side...like routing(sp) for him?

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4331]Sep 10, 2008
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    avataraang113 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    avataraang113 wrote:
    i dont understand what ur guy's argument is about.

    It's my rebuttal to a post made by Sektos a few pages back about how if there had been an audiance watching the finale Agni Kai, they would have supported Zuko over the whole "honor" issue.

    so...you mean they would be on his side...like routing(sp) for him?

    Nope, that's what Sektos thinks. I say that they would have been cheering Azula on. When all is said and done, she and her daddy are the ones writing the pay-checks.

    Edited on 09/10/2008 4:44pm
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [4332]Sep 10, 2008
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    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    Edited on 09/10/2008 4:45pm
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    rgc19

    [4333]Sep 10, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

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    Axrendale

    [4334]Sep 10, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her. Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    Yes. Even though Azula started acting really scarily in the finale, when at the end of the day she was still the beloved princess who singlehandedly conquered Ba Sing Se, and who risked life and limb beating off the attempted invasion during the Day of Black Sun, in the process saving the entire Fire Nation from destruction (or so everyone would have been told once the propeganda specialists were through with the story).

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    isabelwhatx

    [4335]Sep 10, 2008
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    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****


    I don't think anyone would've EVER dared calling Azula any kind of obsence name. Plus, she doesn't really associate with the "peasents" that much, and the people she does associate with wouldn't say that. Look at how sacred Mai and Ty Lee were of her.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4336]Sep 10, 2008
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    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").

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    libraman_92

    [4337]Sep 10, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").



    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.
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    libraman_92

    [4338]Sep 10, 2008
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    libraman_92 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").



    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.


    that was aimed at rgc19, by the way.
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    rgc19

    [4339]Sep 10, 2008
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    libraman_92 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").

    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.
    that was aimed at rgc19, by the way.

    Hey, I'm not hating on Azula. I'm just saying, I'm not sure how much the common FN man/woman would sympathize with her. Peasants don't really care so much for glorious military conquest. What the common man generally wants is just a stable and happy life. Ah, the blight of society!

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    isabelwhatx

    [4340]Sep 10, 2008
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    You'd be surprised how much the FN citizens love their country. The Headband demonstrated that. They're country comes before everything, even themselves. I don't think that a slightly unfair shot will change that.
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