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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Sozin's Comet (Series Finale) Official Discussion Thread - (*Major Spoilers*)

Rate the finale! How was it?

  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4341]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    rgc19 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").

    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.
    that was aimed at rgc19, by the way.

    Hey, I'm not hating on Azula. I'm just saying, I'm not sure how much the common FN man/woman would sympathize with her. Peasants don't really care so much for glorious military conquest. What the common man generally wants is just a stable and happy life. Ah, the blight of society!

    You don't really see many of the commen FN men/women hanging around the capital which, if I'm not mistaken is supposed to be the home of only the aristocracy and their servents, as well as the Royal Family and the Imperial Firebenders.

    The commen citizens would probably be the ones most inclined to sympathize with her. All they've ever known about her are stories of how great she is All they've ever heard about Zuko is how terrible he is.

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  • Avatar of rgc19

    rgc19

    [4342]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 05/20/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 244
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").

    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.
    that was aimed at rgc19, by the way.

    Hey, I'm not hating on Azula. I'm just saying, I'm not sure how much the common FN man/woman would sympathize with her. Peasants don't really care so much for glorious military conquest. What the common man generally wants is just a stable and happy life. Ah, the blight of society!

    You don't really see many of the commen FN men/women hanging around the capital which, if I'm not mistaken is supposed to be the home of only the aristocracy and their servents, as well as the Royal Family and the Imperial Firebenders.

    The commen citizens would probably be the ones most inclined to sympathize with her. All they've ever known about her are stories of how great she is All they've ever heard about Zuko is how terrible he is.

    Put yourself in the shoes of a FN citizen. What are your priorities? Do you really care about your country's imperialistic conquests? How much do you really know? Aren't you a bit skeptical of your government? All I'm saying is, it's not a given that your average FN citizen would automatically sympathize with Azula. Of course, here we are again debating about fiction (lol), so not really sure how you'd ever really know. Just my opinion.

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [4343]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 08/05/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 5,201
    rgc19 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").

    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.
    that was aimed at rgc19, by the way.

    Hey, I'm not hating on Azula. I'm just saying, I'm not sure how much the common FN man/woman would sympathize with her. Peasants don't really care so much for glorious military conquest. What the common man generally wants is just a stable and happy life. Ah, the blight of society!

    You don't really see many of the commen FN men/women hanging around the capital which, if I'm not mistaken is supposed to be the home of only the aristocracy and their servents, as well as the Royal Family and the Imperial Firebenders.

    The commen citizens would probably be the ones most inclined to sympathize with her. All they've ever known about her are stories of how great she is All they've ever heard about Zuko is how terrible he is.

    Put yourself in the shoes of a FN citizen. What are your priorities? Do you really care about your country's imperialistic conquests? How much do you really know? Aren't you a bit skeptical of your government? All I'm saying is, it's not a given that your average FN citizen would automatically sympathize with Azula. Of course, here we are again debating about fiction (lol), so not really sure how you'd ever really know. Just my opinion.

    I'm just poking some info in here. Think about the town in The Painted Lady that was living in the sludge b/c of the factory. How pleased do you think they were w/ the government?
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  • Avatar of rgc19

    rgc19

    [4344]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 05/20/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 244
    gilvatar wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").

    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.
    that was aimed at rgc19, by the way.

    Hey, I'm not hating on Azula. I'm just saying, I'm not sure how much the common FN man/woman would sympathize with her. Peasants don't really care so much for glorious military conquest. What the common man generally wants is just a stable and happy life. Ah, the blight of society!

    You don't really see many of the commen FN men/women hanging around the capital which, if I'm not mistaken is supposed to be the home of only the aristocracy and their servents, as well as the Royal Family and the Imperial Firebenders.

    The commen citizens would probably be the ones most inclined to sympathize with her. All they've ever known about her are stories of how great she is All they've ever heard about Zuko is how terrible he is.

    Put yourself in the shoes of a FN citizen. What are your priorities? Do you really care about your country's imperialistic conquests? How much do you really know? Aren't you a bit skeptical of your government? All I'm saying is, it's not a given that your average FN citizen would automatically sympathize with Azula. Of course, here we are again debating about fiction (lol), so not really sure how you'd ever really know. Just my opinion.

    I'm just poking some info in here. Think about the town in The Painted Lady that was living in the sludge b/c of the factory. How pleased do you think they were w/ the government?

    Kind of my point. Not to say that there aren't uber patriotic FNers. I'm just saying that you're going to have a mix.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4345]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    rgc19 wrote:
    gilvatar wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").

    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.
    that was aimed at rgc19, by the way.

    Hey, I'm not hating on Azula. I'm just saying, I'm not sure how much the common FN man/woman would sympathize with her. Peasants don't really care so much for glorious military conquest. What the common man generally wants is just a stable and happy life. Ah, the blight of society!

    You don't really see many of the commen FN men/women hanging around the capital which, if I'm not mistaken is supposed to be the home of only the aristocracy and their servents, as well as the Royal Family and the Imperial Firebenders.

    The commen citizens would probably be the ones most inclined to sympathize with her. All they've ever known about her are stories of how great she is All they've ever heard about Zuko is how terrible he is.

    Put yourself in the shoes of a FN citizen. What are your priorities? Do you really care about your country's imperialistic conquests? How much do you really know? Aren't you a bit skeptical of your government? All I'm saying is, it's not a given that your average FN citizen would automatically sympathize with Azula. Of course, here we are again debating about fiction (lol), so not really sure how you'd ever really know. Just my opinion.

    I'm just poking some info in here. Think about the town in The Painted Lady that was living in the sludge b/c of the factory. How pleased do you think they were w/ the government?

    Kind of my point. Not to say that there aren't uber patriotic FNers. I'm just saying that you're going to have a mix.

    You're fogetting that these people regard the Royal family as minor deities. The people in that village didn't mind seeing some military tough-guys get roughed up, but the Royal Family are above question. Except for the ones who are bansihed and/or disowned.

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  • Avatar of HopeHime4

    HopeHime4

    [4346]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 07/18/08
    • level: 7
    • rank: Talk Show Host
    • posts: 226
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    gilvatar wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    libraman_92 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    rgc19 wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:

    A lot of the rooting will come from societal pressure. Some people will root for Azula, and then others will catch on, scared to seem different. Of course, the same way could go for Zuko, but Azula has a much larger incentive for you to root for her.

    Then there's the fact that Zuko is the prince that got banned, came back, LIED, betrayed his nation AGAIN, and then left to help their enemy. Zuko isn't exactly the flavor of the week in the FN.

    AND THEN that Azula is probably the most active princess they've ever had. She managed to conquer Ba Sing Sei without an army, something even Iroh couldn't do. I'm sure the FN appreciates Azula just a tad bit more.

    True enough, but then again I can't imagine how popular Azula was. Sure, people respected her, but I bet word got around about her being a ****

    She would be respected like heck. As well as the prestige she gained by conquering Ba Sing Se, she would have also been cast as the person who saved the Fire Nation during DOBS. All Zuko had to his name was lying about killing the Avatar, and almost killing his father. And he wasn't much better than Azula at times (think "The Beach").

    as propaganda specialist of the azula crushers club, i believe you are obscenely wrong of accusing Azula to fall under such a category.
    that was aimed at rgc19, by the way.

    Hey, I'm not hating on Azula. I'm just saying, I'm not sure how much the common FN man/woman would sympathize with her. Peasants don't really care so much for glorious military conquest. What the common man generally wants is just a stable and happy life. Ah, the blight of society!

    You don't really see many of the commen FN men/women hanging around the capital which, if I'm not mistaken is supposed to be the home of only the aristocracy and their servents, as well as the Royal Family and the Imperial Firebenders.

    The commen citizens would probably be the ones most inclined to sympathize with her. All they've ever known about her are stories of how great she is All they've ever heard about Zuko is how terrible he is.

    Put yourself in the shoes of a FN citizen. What are your priorities? Do you really care about your country's imperialistic conquests? How much do you really know? Aren't you a bit skeptical of your government? All I'm saying is, it's not a given that your average FN citizen would automatically sympathize with Azula. Of course, here we are again debating about fiction (lol), so not really sure how you'd ever really know. Just my opinion.

    I'm just poking some info in here. Think about the town in The Painted Lady that was living in the sludge b/c of the factory. How pleased do you think they were w/ the government?

    Kind of my point. Not to say that there aren't uber patriotic FNers. I'm just saying that you're going to have a mix.

    You're fogetting that these people regard the Royal family as minor deities. The people in that village didn't mind seeing some military tough-guys get roughed up, but the Royal Family are above question. Except for the ones who are bansihed and/or disowned.


    You are all forgetting "The Ember Island Players"; the crowd was really supportive of Azula and Ozai. I think that pretty much proves what the average FNer thinks of their monarchs.
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  • Avatar of Sektos

    Sektos

    [4347]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 04/12/07
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,366
    Axrendale wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    On a final note - I do believe that Azula's strike was technically within the rules (although I will grant that it was extremely dishonorable). I'm feeling really tired right now - so I'll post it tommorow.

    Good night all.

    PEACE (lol. Irony)

    Really? THough we dont have a rule book for us to browse (DAM lol) i dont think attempting to kill winesses/the audience of said fight as being within the rules. Ang Ki's are all about "honour" and are ussually fought over them. Its a one on one fight as far as we are aware. Its one of the things that i think would have made more sense in the finale if there was more ppl as winesses to the fight (similar to the crowd when Ozai was appointed) and that when they saw Azuala, and learning of the FL's plan from Zuko, attack Katara and Zuko sacrificing himself for her, they would be disgusted at her and consider her too dishonourable to rule

    The entire reason that there were no people there was because Azula had banished tme in a fit of psychotic paranoia. If therehad been people there, then she would presumably have been sane, and on much more equal footing with Zuko. So either way.

    As far as the rules go, I view it as being similar to a game of tennis. If one player hits the ball out, but before it can go out, the other player accidently knocks it back in, the ball stays in play. The fact that it was going out is irrelevant - the other player chose to hit it back in, the game goes on. Likewise, Zuko chose to intercept the lightning bolt, and keep the "game" going. To his detriment.

    I get that she was crazy, again i have prob with this because it took away from the Zuko and Azula fight. By this point it was easily established in Boiling Rock and SOuther raiders that Zuko and Azula were atleast equals, if not Zuko now being better than her (he was kicking her ass in BR). And the thing about witnesses was because, as with previous point, it would have been better and helped explain why the FN followed Zuko's order to stop the war- fact that they didnt all know and didnt agree with the genocide and that Azula (and Ozai with the genocide) were unfit to rule. Haha good point with the tennis but this wasnt an off shot, it was clearly aimed at katara and Zuko made the effort to get in the way. Again back to my point with Azula dishonouring herself (with audience etc) and fit with the fact that u dont try to fire the balls at the audience on purpose and with intent to kill lol

    I really don't think Zuko was "kicking her ass" in BR. Azula definitely came out on top in that fight - the bedning match was something of a draw, but after Azula saw a way out (as always), the gaang needed Mai to save them. If it hadn't been for her, they all would have been boiled to death.

    If there had been crowds at the corronation, Azula would never even have had to fight the Agni Kai - she would have just done what she did in COD and ordered her enemies dragged off by innumberable guards.

    Zuko was able to block all of her moves easily and seemilngly without any effort. I think he had a bit of an advantage there and again your adding someting outside a fight (cutting the cables) as being part of it. It doesnt show how skilled either of them are. She basically ran away from the fight and had them cut the cables. Its the same as running out of a cave away from an enemy then blowing the entrance. Theirs no skill or fighting technique. Good strategy though low.

    Okay going into more detail, i would have had Katara and ZUko fight their way through Dai Lee and Honor gaurd to ceremony (i mean come on, did she literally ban ALLL the gaurds?) and would have revealed the plot to comit the genocide like i said before. Also Azula isnt as perfect to the people in the palace as you said- she's munipulative and (i would have kept scenes like the pip in the cherry) controling and without mercy. Zuko was herald as having been part of bringing down Ba Sing Sei, and though the play ultimately had Ozai and Azula winning, the crowd did like the other characters. And as mentioned by others the FN people ARE human and can care for others (like in Painted Ladies) learning that their Leader who si meant to be bringing peace to the EK is actually about to burn them all to death is a big deal; even destroying all they've fought for.

    As ive said Ang Ki's are a matter of Hounour so if Zuko called for one in front of the ceremony and stated his claim to thrown Azula couldnt very well refuse. Then add, after revealing the plot and Azula not havign much love amoung those in palace, that she purposefully attacked a bystander after failing to defeat her brother (who i thought should have one ) would be be the last straw and remove all her honour; not fit to rule.

    It does make a HE*LL of alot more sense than Zuko and Katara beating her in front of some sages, with no one else to witness, and suddenly being given full reign of the kingdom lol

    Edited on 09/10/2008 6:26pm
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [4348]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 08/05/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 5,201
    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    On a final note - I do believe that Azula's strike was technically within the rules (although I will grant that it was extremely dishonorable). I'm feeling really tired right now - so I'll post it tommorow.

    Good night all.

    PEACE (lol. Irony)

    Really? THough we dont have a rule book for us to browse (DAM lol) i dont think attempting to kill winesses/the audience of said fight as being within the rules. Ang Ki's are all about "honour" and are ussually fought over them. Its a one on one fight as far as we are aware. Its one of the things that i think would have made more sense in the finale if there was more ppl as winesses to the fight (similar to the crowd when Ozai was appointed) and that when they saw Azuala, and learning of the FL's plan from Zuko, attack Katara and Zuko sacrificing himself for her, they would be disgusted at her and consider her too dishonourable to rule

    The entire reason that there were no people there was because Azula had banished tme in a fit of psychotic paranoia. If therehad been people there, then she would presumably have been sane, and on much more equal footing with Zuko. So either way.

    As far as the rules go, I view it as being similar to a game of tennis. If one player hits the ball out, but before it can go out, the other player accidently knocks it back in, the ball stays in play. The fact that it was going out is irrelevant - the other player chose to hit it back in, the game goes on. Likewise, Zuko chose to intercept the lightning bolt, and keep the "game" going. To his detriment.

    I get that she was crazy, again i have prob with this because it took away from the Zuko and Azula fight. By this point it was easily established in Boiling Rock and SOuther raiders that Zuko and Azula were atleast equals, if not Zuko now being better than her (he was kicking her ass in BR). And the thing about witnesses was because, as with previous point, it would have been better and helped explain why the FN followed Zuko's order to stop the war- fact that they didnt all know and didnt agree with the genocide and that Azula (and Ozai with the genocide) were unfit to rule. Haha good point with the tennis but this wasnt an off shot, it was clearly aimed at katara and Zuko made the effort to get in the way. Again back to my point with Azula dishonouring herself (with audience etc) and fit with the fact that u dont try to fire the balls at the audience on purpose and with intent to kill lol

    I really don't think Zuko was "kicking her ass" in BR. Azula definitely came out on top in that fight - the bedning match was something of a draw, but after Azula saw a way out (as always), the gaang needed Mai to save them. If it hadn't been for her, they all would have been boiled to death.

    If there had been crowds at the corronation, Azula would never even have had to fight the Agni Kai - she would have just done what she did in COD and ordered her enemies dragged off by innumberable guards.



    Zuko was able to block all of her moves easily and seemilngly without any effort. I think he had a bit of an advantage there and again your adding someting outside a fight (cutting the cables) as being part of it. It doesnt show how skilled either of them are. She basically ran away from the fight and had them cut the cables. Its the same as running out of a cave away from an enemy then blowing the entrance. Theirs no skill or fighting technique. Good strategy though low.
    not this again
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [4349]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    On a final note - I do believe that Azula's strike was technically within the rules (although I will grant that it was extremely dishonorable). I'm feeling really tired right now - so I'll post it tommorow.

    Good night all.

    PEACE (lol. Irony)

    Really? THough we dont have a rule book for us to browse (DAM lol) i dont think attempting to kill winesses/the audience of said fight as being within the rules. Ang Ki's are all about "honour" and are ussually fought over them. Its a one on one fight as far as we are aware. Its one of the things that i think would have made more sense in the finale if there was more ppl as winesses to the fight (similar to the crowd when Ozai was appointed) and that when they saw Azuala, and learning of the FL's plan from Zuko, attack Katara and Zuko sacrificing himself for her, they would be disgusted at her and consider her too dishonourable to rule

    The entire reason that there were no people there was because Azula had banished tme in a fit of psychotic paranoia. If therehad been people there, then she would presumably have been sane, and on much more equal footing with Zuko. So either way.

    As far as the rules go, I view it as being similar to a game of tennis. If one player hits the ball out, but before it can go out, the other player accidently knocks it back in, the ball stays in play. The fact that it was going out is irrelevant - the other player chose to hit it back in, the game goes on. Likewise, Zuko chose to intercept the lightning bolt, and keep the "game" going. To his detriment.

    I get that she was crazy, again i have prob with this because it took away from the Zuko and Azula fight. By this point it was easily established in Boiling Rock and SOuther raiders that Zuko and Azula were atleast equals, if not Zuko now being better than her (he was kicking her ass in BR). And the thing about witnesses was because, as with previous point, it would have been better and helped explain why the FN followed Zuko's order to stop the war- fact that they didnt all know and didnt agree with the genocide and that Azula (and Ozai with the genocide) were unfit to rule. Haha good point with the tennis but this wasnt an off shot, it was clearly aimed at katara and Zuko made the effort to get in the way. Again back to my point with Azula dishonouring herself (with audience etc) and fit with the fact that u dont try to fire the balls at the audience on purpose and with intent to kill lol

    I really don't think Zuko was "kicking her ass" in BR. Azula definitely came out on top in that fight - the bedning match was something of a draw, but after Azula saw a way out (as always), the gaang needed Mai to save them. If it hadn't been for her, they all would have been boiled to death.

    If there had been crowds at the corronation, Azula would never even have had to fight the Agni Kai - she would have just done what she did in COD and ordered her enemies dragged off by innumberable guards.

    Zuko was able to block all of her moves easily and seemilngly without any effort. I think he had a bit of an advantage there and again your adding someting outside a fight (cutting the cables) as being part of it. It doesnt show how skilled either of them are. She basically ran away from the fight and had them cut the cables. Its the same as running out of a cave away from an enemy then blowing the entrance. Theirs no skill or fighting technique. Good strategy though low.

    Zuko had no more sucess than Azula - she dodged or blocked all of his attacks in both TBR and TSR.

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    Sektos

    [4350]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 04/12/07
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    isabelwhatx wrote:
    sektos wrote:
    Im not saying Azula CANT fight; she definitely has great technique and is very powerful, but there is a difference between knowing the theory and the practical. Things dont always work out the way we read and learn it, with information constant being revised and updated as people discover and experience new things. Azula as far as we know had never left the FN before going after Zuko, and (from my understanding, which u can disagree with) learnt everything from masters at home and their experience. My point was that Azula as far as we know has neva fought a Water Bender before Katara and it really shows when she gets her ass handed to her within seconds of fighting Katara in CROD. She, however, learns quickly like ZUko, so that the next time she fights her she fights her she is more prepared, plus had the comet to assist her. But again she fails, partly due to her being unstable (really took away from Zuko fight in my opinion), when fighting Katara and doesnt attempt to escape when frozen by her.
    Azula only loses her fights because, as Axrendale has pointed out on other boards, she likes to savor the moment of things. It doesn't satisfy her to just kill/hurt someone, she has to do it thoroughly. Therefore, in episodes like The Drill when she had Aang within reach, she loses quite a lot. But, up until then, it's an epic win


    If its simply that then u could say Aang only loses because he refuse to kill people. Fact is she loses because that who she is. She didnt lose against Katara because she was savouring, fact was she was unprepared to fight her. Zuko however has experience with waterbenders and fought Katara on a equal footing

    Aang does not lose his battles because he refuses to kill people. There has never been any proof of that. In fact, he won his most important battle by not killing someone. However, Azula DOES want to kill someone, but takes her time doing so. That's a major downfall for her.


    Okay buddy, ive NOTHIGN against Aang; im not attacking him here . Im just saying that Aang would have more likely won fight if he actually tried to do serious harm. BEST example beign fight against Jet; yes he only really knew air bending, but he could have done some serious harm. Oh and Axrendale that attack against Katara in pic was from joint effort with Zuko near end of fight, and like i said she does learn quickly.

    Sorry gilvatar Ive no prob with Axrendale or isabelwhatx
    haha jsut got caught up in discussion and unfortuantely i live in dif time zone (Australia).
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    Axrendale

    [4351]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    You're from Australia? I come from Australia Except, obviously, my family lives in the US at the moment.

    So, what's happening there at the moment?

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    Sektos

    [4352]Sep 10, 2008
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    [QUOTE="Axrendale] Zuko had no more sucess than Azula - she dodged or blocked all of his attacks in both TBR and TSR [QUOTE]

    Wont deny that havent seen eps in a while but dif between Zuko and Azula is that Zuko wasnt trying to kill her (or anyone for that matter) and Azula put FAR more effort in her attack that Zuko. He*ll if sokka was willing to Kill she would have been dead in that ep (he stopped an inch or less away from her)
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    Sektos

    [4353]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 04/12/07
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    Axrendale wrote:

    You're from Australia? I come from Australia Except, obviously, my family lives in the US at the moment.

    So, what's happening there at the moment?



    Haha well premier of NSW (where i live got sacked and some other members of party stepped up. Same old droughts etc and i wish the bloo*dy weather make up its mind about wether it wants to be cold or hot .

    Im currently on brake during UNi which is why im on so early.
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    gilvatar

    [4354]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    Axrendale wrote:

    You're from Australia? I come from Australia Except, obviously, my family lives in the US at the moment.

    So, what's happening there at the moment?

    ur from austrailia? Do you have an accent like Heath LEdger (rip)?
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    Sektos

    [4355]Sep 10, 2008
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    gilvatar wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    You're from Australia? I come from Australia Except, obviously, my family lives in the US at the moment.

    So, what's happening there at the moment?

    ur from austrailia? Do you have an accent like Heath LEdger (rip)?


    haha actually, because of an ear infection as a kid and thus need speech therapy, ive been told i have either an english, america, canadian and at one time Irish accent LOL haha

    Trying to remember how Heath sounded (hmm?), also i swear when ever US shows come to australia (like in amazing race) they purposefully seek out the worse sounding ones LOL. Trust me when i say 90% of the country sound nothign like Steve Irwin or Croc Dundee

    Well got to get back to Lecture. Cya later guys
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    isabelwhatx

    [4356]Sep 10, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
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    I know I'm kind of late, but I'm confused. Some of you seem to think the FN doubts its government. I think you need to rewatch "The Headband". The citizens were brainwashed.
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    Sektos

    [4357]Sep 11, 2008
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    FN people definitely love their country and most properably respect the Fire Lord, how ever it was very easy for Aang to get to those kids. Also the people in Painted Lady were angry at the military for wrecking their homes, and though they were mad at Katara for a minute it took little for them to accept her afterwards. From what we've seen its a fair balance for the FN and they could be convinced. Its not so much they doubt their government, thou im sure some do, but that they grow disheartened by the war and effect its having on them, they simple dont agree with some of the FN's choice etc etc.
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    PsychoPass

    [4358]Sep 11, 2008
    • member since: 11/05/07
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    "Hi, I'm a... HUGE fan of the show and I have to say you guys are geniuses."


    "We do our best."


    "I have a question to ask. What is the overall political and social climate of the Fire Nation public in regards to the policies of the military and royal family?"


    These questions really need to be asked. Kids being bored of a rigid and disciplined learning structure and a fishing village suffering from a metal works factory (though bad...) isn't enough information.
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    isabelwhatx

    [4359]Sep 11, 2008
    • member since: 11/30/07
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    Sektos wrote:
    FN people definitely love their country and most properably respect the Fire Lord, how ever it was very easy for Aang to get to those kids. Also the people in Painted Lady were angry at the military for wrecking their homes, and though they were mad at Katara for a minute it took little for them to accept her afterwards. From what we've seen its a fair balance for the FN and they could be convinced. Its not so much they doubt their government, thou im sure some do, but that they grow disheartened by the war and effect its having on them, they simple dont agree with some of the FN's choice etc etc.

    Sorry to ignore you, PsychoPass, but I've got to win this arguement

    Kids are kids. It doesn't take a lot to distract them. It shouldn't have been that hard to make them express themselves. I mean, have you ever talked to a 10 year old? They CRAVE to be set free. Also, the village in The Painted Lady was pretty much isolated from the FN except for the factory. They are somewhat like the Swamp Benders. Also, they have no schools to teach them to love the FN.
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    Sektos

    [4360]Sep 11, 2008
    • member since: 04/12/07
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Sektos wrote:
    FN people definitely love their country and most properably respect the Fire Lord, how ever it was very easy for Aang to get to those kids. Also the people in Painted Lady were angry at the military for wrecking their homes, and though they were mad at Katara for a minute it took little for them to accept her afterwards. From what we've seen its a fair balance for the FN and they could be convinced. Its not so much they doubt their government, thou im sure some do, but that they grow disheartened by the war and effect its having on them, they simple dont agree with some of the FN's choice etc etc.

    Sorry to ignore you, PsychoPass, but I've got to win this arguement

    Kids are kids. It doesn't take a lot to distract them. It shouldn't have been that hard to make them express themselves. I mean, have you ever talked to a 10 year old? They CRAVE to be set free. Also, the village in The Painted Lady was pretty much isolated from the FN except for the factory. They are somewhat like the Swamp Benders. Also, they have no schools to teach them to love the FN.


    Okay seriuously (and quickly im in class right now ) Whats more believeable? The crowd hearing Ozai and Azula's plot (and being disgusted), witnessing Azula dishounouring herself (unfit to rule) and Zuko sacrifice himself for some one else and thus Accept him

    OR

    Zuko fighting Azula with 4 witnesses (some small number like that, cant remember exact) and no one else but Katara, Said royal princess being chained up and their FL nearly killed and rendered powerless. OH YEAH the people are REALLY going to rally around Zuko after that and totally stop the war (SARCASM!) lol

    Its a cartoon and fantasy so of course you have to suspend some disbelief BUT it still needs (in a show like Avatar) some element of realism and Zuko being accepted after the scenario presented in the show has a few too many holes
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