well people we must have more theories to fundament!!! I could answer some issues, telling you if this theory is more probable than that one etc etc lol
Nickelodeon (ended 2008)
| Eman5805 wrote: |
| Or perhaps Zuko's subconscious is saying that Aang is more important to who Zuko is...or rather Aang is part of Zuko identiy...come to think of it until that point Zuko never saw the Avatar since "The Chase"...maybe that's what brought about the change...once the Avatar came back into the picture the Zuko we all know resurfaced... |
lol, i'm now thinking that maybe the whole zuko has a plan and fought against aang so it seemed real to azula...
or..
all the thought of wanting to regain his honor came rushing back and at that moment is was more important to him than him changing his life for the better, he still might join aang later on when he sorts stuff out
Doesn't matter what you guys say...I still wanna beat the living crap out of Zuko... and Azula, specially?? Zuko for betraying uncle Iroh, that dude kicks butt... well yea
Wow, so, from the page count it looks like I'm SUPER late to this party.
Anyways, this was a fantastic episode set!?? And yet, it drew forth questions.??
Question 1: Why exactly is the Avatar state still considered to be "all that"??? I mean, I felt like I was the only person remembering something about "if you die in the avatar state you've ruined the cycle for life!" and all that.?? Secondly, I feel like Aang & Co. don't understand why the Avatar State is so truely powerful.?? All being able to control will do is give Aang access to the power.?? The reason it is so truely powerful is because Aang isn't aware; he's acting on pure instinct in that state normally, which improves his reflexes and keeps him from knowing realizations of limitations (which hold him back).?? So basically: "Aang, forget the Avatar State!?? It's COMPLETELY not worth it!"
Question 2: When Toph did Earthbending on the metal, was anyone else like "FINALLY!!!"??? I mean, from the very first earthbending episode back with Haku, I've been wondering why metal was exempt.?? They were on that ship being told "you're surrounded my metal so SOL for you", and I immediately started thinking "...But doesn't metal come from the earth?"?? Was anyone else thinking this, too??? Still though, I'm glad they finally let someone bend it.
Question 3: Zuko.?? Crazy ol' Zuko.?? What's going on there??? Backstab-Azula scheme, or actually backstab??? And if it's the latter, then I wonder if Azula telling him herself "Father doesn't matter, you restored your own honor" will make him finally realize that he can do whatever the hell he wants!?? I mean seriously!?? He's like the slowest learner in the class on this whole "you determine your own self-worth" lesson!?? Also, even though she's obviously going to end up with Aang, I think someone's got a little crush on Katara.?? How cute!?? ?? But still, to betray Iroh, even if it turns out to be a good-guy plot, Zuko has lost some major cool-points in my book.?? He's gonna have a hard time convincing Katara to get rid of his scar now.
Question 4: Why couldn't Katara see (or hear even!) in the first place that Azula & Co. weren't Suki & Co.??? Shouldn't it have been incredibly obvious??? Having met, befriended, and fought along side of Suki, shouldn't she have been able to tell the difference?
So yeah, like I said, looks like I'm late to the party on this one, so a lot of this has probably already been discussed, but I wanted to say it all, too.
Want to know why the Avatar State is all that? here's a reminder:
| mblizzow wrote: |
| the avatar state is the business!!! all of aang's past lives coincide to whoop some booty, yea so totally awesome. |
I think you're misunderstanding me.?? What I'm saying is, why is Aang so intent on being able to use the Avatar State??? I felt like I was the only person remembering Roku saying "If you die in the Avatar State, you'll break the cycle and there won't be any more Avatars".?? You'd think he'd rather just practice and get stronger on his own.?? Also, what we've seen of the Avatar State so far has only been so powerful because of Aang's unconscious use of it.?? Before, he went into a kind of primative, uncontrolled state, which upped his reflexes and kept him from realizing his limitations.?? If he is able to control the Avatar State and be conscious while using it, it will cease to be as powerful simply for the fact that he's going to be aware of his own limitations while in the State, and those will hold him back.
Does what I'm saying make more sense now??? I'm not putting down the Avatar State, I'm just questioning why Aang is trying to rely on it so much.?? Mostly, I'm questioning as to whether or not he even remembers Roku's super important warning.?? I mean, you'd think hearing "If you screw up and die, you screw us all" would leave a more lasting impression.
Alright, I've read through the posts (and holy goodness there were a lot of them) to see what has or has not already been talked about, and now I need to vent at people.?? (For lack of a better word.)
1. "Metalbending!"?? I saw so many people saying "OMG!?? Toph metalbended!?? So cool!" and other such nonsense.?? Metalbending does not exist.?? That would be like saying "Lightningbending".?? If you actually watched "The Guru", you'd would have heard him say something about how metal is just a refined part of earth.?? Metal : Earthbending :: Lightning : Firebending.?? Personally, I've been wondering since back in the Haku episode why they couldn't bend metal, too, since it seemed (at least to me) to logically be part of the earth.?? I know someone mentioned that the Nick Avatar site says something about "Firebenders use metal because Earthbenders can't bend that refined state."?? That means diddlysquat.?? I've seen plenty of show sites with incorrect information.?? Here's the deal.?? Nickelodeon owns the rights to air the show, but they aren't actually the ones creating the show.
2. "What happened to Jet and Suki?"?? Jet is dead, people.?? He's dead.?? Deal with it.?? There was no mystery about it.?? We're clearly lead to the inference that he has died.?? Toph: "I can feel through the earth if people are lying".?? Skip forward to after Jet has been hit.?? Longshot: "We'll take care of him.?? He'll be fine."?? Aang&Co. start to walk away.?? Toph: "He's lying."?? That's a clever, poetic way of telling the viewers that he's dying/dead.?? As for Suki&Co. we don't actually know.?? We haven't actually been given clues to her situation.
3. "Aang died!?? OMG!"?? Stop making assumptions just because Katara used her special water!?? If you didn't know already, one of the sticking points for the creators of this show is to create a realistic world that has realistic limitations.?? It's not possible for people to come back to life.?? Even for the Avatar.?? Katara may be good and have special water, but she and it aren't that good.?? Here's the deal.?? The blast gravely and fatally injured Aang, but it did not immediately kill him.?? Most likely, she used her special water because even with her healing powers, his injuries might have killed him eventually anyways.?? (I draw your attention to the horrible burn mark on his back.)?? They were that bad.?? Getting shot square in the back with lightning does not automatically equal death.?? Iroh, a much??older man, got shot square on the heart and he didn't die.?? Use the Yoko Kurama (Yu Yu Hakusho) Dark Tournament analogy if you must.?? The only reason Kurama didn't die is because Yoko's power gave him that little extra bit of protect.?? This is kind of the effect of the Avatar State for Aang in this instance.?? Also, you have to judge these things by the character reactions.?? Katara is a sensible girl.?? If Aang was dead, she'd most likely be crying, not futilely trying to cure a corpse.?? She was trying so hard because she was trying to keep him from dying.?? Seriously, if he were dead, she either be trying much harder with much more grief-stricken determination and false hope or there'd be a lot more crying from all of the group.?? If you look at their faces, they have a more "Can you save him, Katara?" kind of look, rather than a "We failed, he's dead" kind of look.?? Seriously, if you aren't sure, you should try to infer these things from character (and more than just the love-interest character) reactions.
4. "The Avatar line is ended!"?? Lies and more lies.?? I've even seen posts with "Look at the title!?? Having him die really does make him the hero because he'd be the last Avatar!"?? Yes, let's look at the title, shall we??? It clearly says "Last Airbender" not "Last Avatar".?? Aang, the Last Airbender because of the Fire Nation, happens to be the Avatar.?? There.?? Title deciphered.?? As a sidenote, there are also a lot of people saying "He's okay because his Avatar tatoos glowed!".?? Those tatoos aren't because he's the Avatar.?? They are airbender tatoos.?? The Avatar State survives as long as the Avatar survives.?? While Aang still lives, so does the Avatar State, because it is a state that can only be manifested in the Avatar.?? The Avatar State exists for the Avatar; the Avatar does not exist for the Avatar State.?? The Avatar State is the collection of power from all the previous Avatars, accessed all at once to help the Avatar, kind of like??sugar rush.?? Lots of energy for a short period of time.?? Because Aang did not die, the Avatar State still exists.??
I apologize if I've offended anyone or squashed anyone's dreamy delusions, but I've said what I've said and I stand by it.?? I'm more than willing to debate what I've said with anyone who disagrees.?? I would like to request intelligent debates though.?? In other words, I will not respond to anyone using "because" as their sole reason of justification.?? Use your inferences from the story, but not your assumptions.?? Once again, I apologize if I've upset anyone or ruffled any feathers, but I stand by my post until such a time when the creators of the show themselves say I'm wrong.
2. "What happened to Jet and Suki?"?? Jet is dead, people.?? He's dead.?? Deal with it.?? There was no mystery about it.?? We're clearly lead to the inference that he has died.?? Toph: "I can feel through the earth if people are lying".?? Skip forward to after Jet has been hit.?? Longshot: "We'll take care of him.?? He'll be fine."?? Aang&Co. start to walk away.?? Toph: "He's lying."?? That's a clever, poetic way of telling the viewers that he's dying/dead.?? As for Suki&Co. we don't actually know.?? We haven't actually been given clues to her situation.
We were "clearly" lead to believe that Zuko was turning over a new leaf but well...you saw how that turned out.??and of course Jet??was lying.??he knew how messed up he was most people who get that messed up do think they're dying, doesn't mean they are...but no one can come out and say he's dead or alive definitively especially with a show as prone to twists as Avatar...
| LittleHobbit13 wrote: |
Alright, I've read through the posts (and holy goodness there were a lot of them) to see what has or has not already been talked about, and now I need to vent at people.?? (For lack of a better word.) 1. "Metalbending!"?? I saw so many people saying "OMG!?? Toph metalbended!?? So cool!" and other such nonsense.?? Metalbending does not exist.?? That would be like saying "Lightningbending".?? If you actually watched "The Guru", you'd would have heard him say something about how metal is just a refined part of earth.?? Metal : Earthbending :: Lightning : Firebending.?? Personally, I've been wondering since back in the Haku episode why they couldn't bend metal, too, since it seemed (at least to me) to logically be part of the earth.?? I know someone mentioned that the Nick Avatar site says something about "Firebenders use metal because Earthbenders can't bend that refined state."?? That means diddlysquat.?? I've seen plenty of show sites with incorrect information.?? Here's the deal.?? Nickelodeon owns the rights to air the show, but they aren't actually the ones creating the show. 2. "What happened to Jet and Suki?"?? Jet is dead, people.?? He's dead.?? Deal with it.?? There was no mystery about it.?? We're clearly lead to the inference that he has died.?? Toph: "I can feel through the earth if people are lying".?? Skip forward to after Jet has been hit.?? Longshot: "We'll take care of him.?? He'll be fine."?? Aang&Co. start to walk away.?? Toph: "He's lying."?? That's a clever, poetic way of telling the viewers that he's dying/dead.?? As for Suki&Co. we don't actually know.?? We haven't actually been given clues to her situation. 3. "Aang died!?? OMG!"?? Stop making assumptions just because Katara used her special water!?? If you didn't know already, one of the sticking points for the creators of this show is to create a realistic world that has realistic limitations.?? It's not possible for people to come back to life.?? Even for the Avatar.?? Katara may be good and have special water, but she and it aren't that good.?? Here's the deal.?? The blast gravely and fatally injured Aang, but it did not immediately kill him.?? Most likely, she used her special water because even with her healing powers, his injuries might have killed him eventually anyways.?? (I draw your attention to the horrible burn mark on his back.)?? They were that bad.?? Getting shot square in the back with lightning does not automatically equal death.?? Iroh, a much??older man, got shot square on the heart and he didn't die.?? Use the Yoko Kurama (Yu Yu Hakusho) Dark Tournament analogy if you must.?? The only reason Kurama didn't die is because Yoko's power gave him that little extra bit of protect.?? This is kind of the effect of the Avatar State for Aang in this instance.?? Also, you have to judge these things by the character reactions.?? Katara is a sensible girl.?? If Aang was dead, she'd most likely be crying, not futilely trying to cure a corpse.?? She was trying so hard because she was trying to keep him from dying.?? Seriously, if he were dead, she either be trying much harder with much more grief-stricken determination and false hope or there'd be a lot more crying from all of the group.?? If you look at their faces, they have a more "Can you save him, Katara?" kind of look, rather than a "We failed, he's dead" kind of look.?? Seriously, if you aren't sure, you should try to infer these things from character (and more than just the love-interest character) reactions. 4. "The Avatar line is ended!"?? Lies and more lies.?? I've even seen posts with "Look at the title!?? Having him die really does make him the hero because he'd be the last Avatar!"?? Yes, let's look at the title, shall we??? It clearly says "Last Airbender" not "Last Avatar".?? Aang, the Last Airbender because of the Fire Nation, happens to be the Avatar.?? There.?? Title deciphered.?? As a sidenote, there are also a lot of people saying "He's okay because his Avatar tatoos glowed!".?? Those tatoos aren't because he's the Avatar.?? They are airbender tatoos.?? The Avatar State survives as long as the Avatar survives.?? While Aang still lives, so does the Avatar State, because it is a state that can only be manifested in the Avatar.?? The Avatar State exists for the Avatar; the Avatar does not exist for the Avatar State.?? The Avatar State is the collection of power from all the previous Avatars, accessed all at once to help the Avatar, kind of like??sugar rush.?? Lots of energy for a short period of time.?? Because Aang did not die, the Avatar State still exists.?? I apologize if I've offended anyone or squashed anyone's dreamy delusions, but I've said what I've said and I stand by it.?? I'm more than willing to debate what I've said with anyone who disagrees.?? I would like to request intelligent debates though.?? In other words, I will not respond to anyone using "because" as their sole reason of justification.?? Use your inferences from the story, but not your assumptions.?? Once again, I apologize if I've upset anyone or ruffled any feathers, but I stand by my post until such a time when the creators of the show themselves say I'm wrong. |
well said, the only part i disagree on is with jet. It is??probable that he did die, but just because he lied about himself being fine, does not mean death. It just means he could die or that he is severly wounded that will have physical affects on him for the rest of his life. Yes we were led to believe Jet died, but the writters have surprised us before like most people thought zuko was going to join aang in the finale, it looked like it was going to happen but did not. My point is it is very hard to jump to a?? definite conclusion that he did die, season 3 will be filled with surprises and i would not put it past he writers to bring back jet unexpectedly.
| LittleHobbit13 wrote: | ||
I think you're misunderstanding me.?? What I'm saying is, why is Aang so intent on being able to use the Avatar State??? I felt like I was the only person remembering Roku saying "If you die in the Avatar State, you'll break the cycle and there won't be any more Avatars".?? You'd think he'd rather just practice and get stronger on his own.?? Also, what we've seen of the Avatar State so far has only been so powerful because of Aang's unconscious use of it.?? Before, he went into a kind of primative, uncontrolled state, which upped his reflexes and kept him from realizing his limitations.?? If he is able to control the Avatar State and be conscious while using it, it will cease to be as powerful simply for the fact that he's going to be aware of his own limitations while in the State, and those will hold him back. Does what I'm saying make more sense now??? I'm not putting down the Avatar State, I'm just questioning why Aang is trying to rely on it so much.?? Mostly, I'm questioning as to whether or not he even remembers Roku's super important warning.?? I mean, you'd think hearing "If you screw up and die, you screw us all" would leave a more lasting impression. |
| LittleHobbit13 wrote: |
Alright, I've read through the posts (and holy goodness there were a lot of them) to see what has or has not already been talked about, and now I need to vent at people.?? (For lack of a better word.) 1. "Metalbending!"?? I saw so many people saying "OMG!?? Toph metalbended!?? So cool!" and other such nonsense.?? Metalbending does not exist.?? That would be like saying "Lightningbending".?? If you actually watched "The Guru", you'd would have heard him say something about how metal is just a refined part of earth.?? Metal : Earthbending :: Lightning : Firebending.?? Personally, I've been wondering since back in the Haku episode why they couldn't bend metal, too, since it seemed (at least to me) to logically be part of the earth.?? I know someone mentioned that the Nick Avatar site says something about "Firebenders use metal because Earthbenders can't bend that refined state."?? That means diddlysquat.?? I've seen plenty of show sites with incorrect information.?? Here's the deal.?? Nickelodeon owns the rights to air the show, but they aren't actually the ones creating the show. 2. "What happened to Jet and Suki?"?? Jet is dead, people.?? He's dead.?? Deal with it.?? There was no mystery about it.?? We're clearly lead to the inference that he has died.?? Toph: "I can feel through the earth if people are lying".?? Skip forward to after Jet has been hit.?? Longshot: "We'll take care of him.?? He'll be fine."?? Aang&Co. start to walk away.?? Toph: "He's lying."?? That's a clever, poetic way of telling the viewers that he's dying/dead.?? As for Suki&Co. we don't actually know.?? We haven't actually been given clues to her situation. 3. "Aang died!?? OMG!"?? Stop making assumptions just because Katara used her special water!?? If you didn't know already, one of the sticking points for the creators of this show is to create a realistic world that has realistic limitations.?? It's not possible for people to come back to life.?? Even for the Avatar.?? Katara may be good and have special water, but she and it aren't that good.?? Here's the deal.?? The blast gravely and fatally injured Aang, but it did not immediately kill him.?? Most likely, she used her special water because even with her healing powers, his injuries might have killed him eventually anyways.?? (I draw your attention to the horrible burn mark on his back.)?? They were that bad.?? Getting shot square in the back with lightning does not automatically equal death.?? Iroh, a much??older man, got shot square on the heart and he didn't die.?? Use the Yoko Kurama (Yu Yu Hakusho) Dark Tournament analogy if you must.?? The only reason Kurama didn't die is because Yoko's power gave him that little extra bit of protect.?? This is kind of the effect of the Avatar State for Aang in this instance.?? Also, you have to judge these things by the character reactions.?? Katara is a sensible girl.?? If Aang was dead, she'd most likely be crying, not futilely trying to cure a corpse.?? She was trying so hard because she was trying to keep him from dying.?? Seriously, if he were dead, she either be trying much harder with much more grief-stricken determination and false hope or there'd be a lot more crying from all of the group.?? If you look at their faces, they have a more "Can you save him, Katara?" kind of look, rather than a "We failed, he's dead" kind of look.?? Seriously, if you aren't sure, you should try to infer these things from character (and more than just the love-interest character) reactions. 4. "The Avatar line is ended!"?? Lies and more lies.?? I've even seen posts with "Look at the title!?? Having him die really does make him the hero because he'd be the last Avatar!"?? Yes, let's look at the title, shall we??? It clearly says "Last Airbender" not "Last Avatar".?? Aang, the Last Airbender because of the Fire Nation, happens to be the Avatar.?? There.?? Title deciphered.?? As a sidenote, there are also a lot of people saying "He's okay because his Avatar tatoos glowed!".?? Those tatoos aren't because he's the Avatar.?? They are airbender tatoos.?? The Avatar State survives as long as the Avatar survives.?? While Aang still lives, so does the Avatar State, because it is a state that can only be manifested in the Avatar.?? The Avatar State exists for the Avatar; the Avatar does not exist for the Avatar State.?? The Avatar State is the collection of power from all the previous Avatars, accessed all at once to help the Avatar, kind of like??sugar rush.?? Lots of energy for a short period of time.?? Because Aang did not die, the Avatar State still exists.?? I apologize if I've offended anyone or squashed anyone's dreamy delusions, but I've said what I've said and I stand by it.?? I'm more than willing to debate what I've said with anyone who disagrees.?? I would like to request intelligent debates though.?? In other words, I will not respond to anyone using "because" as their sole reason of justification.?? Use your inferences from the story, but not your assumptions.?? Once again, I apologize if I've upset anyone or ruffled any feathers, but I stand by my post until such a time when the creators of the show themselves say I'm wrong. |
I suppose I may be looking at Zuko's situation from a different point of view than most people, which is why I'm seeing some of these events a little differently.?? Everyone keeps saying "Zuko was about to join the group and officially be a good guy!".?? I never felt that.?? There was just something...off.?? I think it might have been the way he was so calm and (for lack of a better word) wuss-like in personality at the time.?? The Zuko I see joining the group would have the same personality as the Zuko from the very first episode, he'd just be on the good-guy side.?? I couldn't see that peaceful Zuko joining the group.
But hey, maybe it's just me.??
I believe Jet died because of the reactions of the surrounding characters and the dialogue.?? Katara's medical diagnosis was??"This isn't good."?? Jet said "I'll be fine" followed by Toph's "He's lying."?? And look at the situation.?? Badly injured Jet was left with only Smellerbee and Longshot for caretakers.?? It's not very likely he would have survived.
If he ends up coming back, then I'm wrong.?? So what.?? If he really did die, then he died.?? Deaths happen in war.?? We can't always expect all of the characters we like to survive.
