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Official Discussion: The Guru/The Crossroads of Destiny (12/1 - Spoilers)

  • Avatar of hercules1991

    hercules1991

    [1042]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 11/30/03
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 18
    Scrypter001 wrote:
    hercules1991 wrote:

    I apologie in advance if these points have already been made. I'm wondering who else feels that maybe Zuko did not betray Uncle Iroh? Wouldn't it seem exactly like Iroh to formulate a plan with zuko to infiltrate Azula's command of ba sing se. Think about it. He would have access to info and access to Azula that the avatar may need in the times to come. i really don't feel that the writers would just disregard all the changes Zuko has gone through this season just to have him revert back.

    okay now i've seen a few people complain about Aang "giving up Katara" at the end. I think if you watch the episode again you'll see that the guru says he has to "learn to let her go." is it not possible that he meant that the "Fear" of losing Katara is holding Aang back. That he could learn to accept that she may one day leave in one way or another and that by accepting that and "letting go" of that fear he will unlock his chakra and receieve the cosmic power to control the avatar state. I don't beleieve releasing the love an avatar has for someone would enable them to master the A.S. but releasing the fear that holds that holds them back might.

    what do you think? Do these ideas of mine hold water?


    Lol that's your opinion, but i think, love can do to you lots of things. Imagine she dies, for example, how do you think he would react?
    Do you think he would react the same way, as if it was Sokka to die? I think not.
    ??I Think that, if he will turn into his avatar state, not controled, OR he can be killed by someone, like Azula did, OR he can, while being super out of control, kill anyone with his infuriating attacks.
    I think.... in the first episode (i'm not sure which it was) when the general something of the Earth kingdom tried to provoke Aang, to trigger his Avatar state.....
    He hurted a lot of inocent people, due to the general's mind game of "killing Katara".


    ?? I think he really has to let go of Katara. He has to forget that he loves her.
    if she were to die he would still be devestated and angry, but thats not the same thing as living in fear of losing her. Its possible to learn to accept that one day something might happen to her. If something does happen to katara Aang might still react violently because he does love her, but he will eventually cope with his loss knowing that he loved her for as long as they were given. besides how can it be possible for him to forget his love for her. Its not just a memory, it's part of him emotionally and spiritually. His love for her is essential to keeping one of his chakras open. While watching the episode again i came to the conclusion that everytime Aang opened one of his chakras it was about releasing a negative emotion like fear, guilt, shame, or apprehension. I think all these emotions are derived from the first one listed: fear. That right there shows that a beneficial emotion like love should not affect his energy in any negative way.
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  • Avatar of EMD123

    EMD123

    [1043]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 11/26/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 53
    hercules1991 wrote:
    Scrypter001 wrote:
    hercules1991 wrote:

    I apologie in advance if these points have already been made. I'm wondering who else feels that maybe Zuko did not betray Uncle Iroh? Wouldn't it seem exactly like Iroh to formulate a plan with zuko to infiltrate Azula's command of ba sing se. Think about it. He would have access to info and access to Azula that the avatar may need in the times to come. i really don't feel that the writers would just disregard all the changes Zuko has gone through this season just to have him revert back.

    okay now i've seen a few people complain about Aang "giving up Katara" at the end. I think if you watch the episode again you'll see that the guru says he has to "learn to let her go." is it not possible that he meant that the "Fear" of losing Katara is holding Aang back. That he could learn to accept that she may one day leave in one way or another and that by accepting that and "letting go" of that fear he will unlock his chakra and receieve the cosmic power to control the avatar state. I don't beleieve releasing the love an avatar has for someone would enable them to master the A.S. but releasing the fear that holds that holds them back might.

    what do you think? Do these ideas of mine hold water?


    Lol that's your opinion, but i think, love can do to you lots of things. Imagine she dies, for example, how do you think he would react?
    Do you think he would react the same way, as if it was Sokka to die? I think not.
    ??I Think that, if he will turn into his avatar state, not controled, OR he can be killed by someone, like Azula did, OR he can, while being super out of control, kill anyone with his infuriating attacks.
    I think.... in the first episode (i'm not sure which it was) when the general something of the Earth kingdom tried to provoke Aang, to trigger his Avatar state.....
    He hurted a lot of inocent people, due to the general's mind game of "killing Katara".


    ?? I think he really has to let go of Katara. He has to forget that he loves her.
    if she were to die he would still be devestated and angry, but thats not the same thing as living in fear of losing her. Its possible to learn to accept that one day something might happen to her. If something does happen to katara Aang might still react violently because he does love her, but he will eventually cope with his loss knowing that he loved her for as long as they were given. besides how can it be possible for him to forget his love for her. Its not just a memory, it's part of him emotionally and spiritually. His love for her is essential to keeping one of his chakras open. While watching the episode again i came to the conclusion that everytime Aang opened one of his chakras it was about releasing a negative emotion like fear, guilt, shame, or apprehension. I think all these emotions are derived from the first one listed: fear. That right there shows that a beneficial emotion like love should not affect his energy in any negative way.

    True if he did not love the air chakra might close since it deals with love.

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  • Avatar of freshdth

    freshdth

    [1044]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 10/08/05
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 200
    For those of you who have given up on Zuko because of his choices look back to the episode THe Earth King and look deeply into Zukos dream then reply back here and tell me what you see. That episode shows onne of the biggest hints to his destiny then you might think. Once you have seen it reply back here...........................................
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  • Avatar of bodhi108

    bodhi108

    [1045]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 10/31/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 12
    freshdth wrote:
    For those of you who have given up on Zuko because of his choices look back to the episode THe Earth King and look deeply into Zukos dream then reply back here and tell me what you see. That episode shows onne of the biggest hints to his destiny then you might think. Once you have seen it reply back here...........................................


    which dream? The one with dragons repst. Azula and Iroh or the one where he has aangs head/tatoo? both are full of meaning and allusion. the dragon/fire lord one deals with what side/influence he will end up following: Azula=evil/war/betrayal, Iroh=good/righteous/wisdom.
    Also what about the part showing his mom Ursa? the azula dragon was telling Zuko to sleep and stop worrying about what happened to his mom right?
    Also what did his second dream mean? He basically had aangs head right? does that reprs. that it is his destiny to help the avatar, or to take on a similar role as the avatar, e.g. helping to restore balance and order to the world by ending the war?
    lots of cryptic messages and allusions going on here, and as of the finale it looks like his still having a major struggle with the two diff. paths his life could go down.

    does this make any sense???
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  • Avatar of Neurosylum

    Neurosylum

    [1046]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 10/24/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 980
    bodhi108 wrote:
    freshdth wrote:
    For those of you who have given up on Zuko because of his choices look back to the episode THe Earth King and look deeply into Zukos dream then reply back here and tell me what you see. That episode shows onne of the biggest hints to his destiny then you might think. Once you have seen it reply back here...........................................


    which dream? The one with dragons repst. Azula and Iroh or the one where he has aangs head/tatoo? both are full of meaning and allusion. the dragon/fire lord one deals with what side/influence he will end up following: Azula=evil/war/betrayal, Iroh=good/righteous/wisdom.
    Also what about the part showing his mom Ursa? the azula dragon was telling Zuko to sleep and stop worrying about what happened to his mom right?
    Also what did his second dream mean? He basically had aangs head right? does that reprs. that it is his destiny to help the avatar, or to take on a similar role as the avatar, e.g. helping to restore balance and order to the world by ending the war?
    lots of cryptic messages and allusions going on here, and as of the finale it looks like his still having a major struggle with the two diff. paths his life could go down.

    does this make any sense???


    Yes, I really want to know what freshdth saw in that episode and would like to share with us...unless it was already stated by bodhi108.
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  • Avatar of carmellaina

    carmellaina

    [1047]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 11/05/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,801
    TheButterCutter wrote:
    Narute sucks in my opinion.

    AMEN to that =]
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  • Avatar of the_mental_teen

    the_mental_teen

    [1048]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 11/09/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,682
    carmellaina wrote:
    TheButterCutter wrote:
    Narute sucks in my opinion.

    AMEN to that =]


    Naruto you son of a *****. You made my little bro not like "Avatar" as much and like you more.

    I have two last words to the show: **** you.
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  • Avatar of Dragon_Of_West

    Dragon_Of_West

    [1049]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 12/05/06
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 36
    Did anyone think that the whole prison (catacombs ? underground cells ?) thing where Katara was put in was very ill-thought out by the writers ? why put her in a place where she has access to a lot of her native element (water ?) Why not put her in a metal cell like Long Feng and cut her access to natural water like that was available in the episode ? Not that I am complaining, but it seemed a bit cheesy. Same was the case with Zuko ? Why were Kataara and Zuko special - while Toph, the Earth King and Sokka were not ? Sounded like a forced Zutara moment :-) (just saying - have nothing against or for Zutara and Kataang)
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  • Avatar of CyprisFire

    CyprisFire

    [1050]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 12/02/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 44
    EMD123 wrote:
    hercules1991 wrote:
    Scrypter001 wrote:
    hercules1991 wrote:

    I apologie in advance if these points have already been made. I'm wondering who else feels that maybe Zuko did not betray Uncle Iroh? Wouldn't it seem exactly like Iroh to formulate a plan with zuko to infiltrate Azula's command of ba sing se. Think about it. He would have access to info and access to Azula that the avatar may need in the times to come. i really don't feel that the writers would just disregard all the changes Zuko has gone through this season just to have him revert back.

    okay now i've seen a few people complain about Aang "giving up Katara" at the end. I think if you watch the episode again you'll see that the guru says he has to "learn to let her go." is it not possible that he meant that the "Fear" of losing Katara is holding Aang back. That he could learn to accept that she may one day leave in one way or another and that by accepting that and "letting go" of that fear he will unlock his chakra and receieve the cosmic power to control the avatar state. I don't beleieve releasing the love an avatar has for someone would enable them to master the A.S. but releasing the fear that holds that holds them back might.

    what do you think? Do these ideas of mine hold water?


    Lol that's your opinion, but i think, love can do to you lots of things. Imagine she dies, for example, how do you think he would react?
    Do you think he would react the same way, as if it was Sokka to die? I think not.
    I Think that, if he will turn into his avatar state, not controled, OR he can be killed by someone, like Azula did, OR he can, while being super out of control, kill anyone with his infuriating attacks.
    I think.... in the first episode (i'm not sure which it was) when the general something of the Earth kingdom tried to provoke Aang, to trigger his Avatar state.....
    He hurted a lot of inocent people, due to the general's mind game of "killing Katara".


    ?? I think he really has to let go of Katara. He has to forget that he loves her.
    if she were to die he would still be devestated and angry, but thats not the same thing as living in fear of losing her. Its possible to learn to accept that one day something might happen to her. If something does happen to katara Aang might still react violently because he does love her, but he will eventually cope with his loss knowing that he loved her for as long as they were given. besides how can it be possible for him to forget his love for her. Its not just a memory, it's part of him emotionally and spiritually. His love for her is essential to keeping one of his chakras open. While watching the episode again i came to the conclusion that everytime Aang opened one of his chakras it was about releasing a negative emotion like fear, guilt, shame, or apprehension. I think all these emotions are derived from the first one listed: fear. That right there shows that a beneficial emotion like love should not affect his energy in any negative way.

    True if he did not love the air chakra might close since it deals with love.




    I dont know, It seems like monks, messiahs, heros, and philosophers have to forge their own way through life unhindered by love.?? His love for Katara would hold him back in the long run.?? She would be a weakness and a trigger, and it would be dangerous if he would choose saving her over saving the world.
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  • Avatar of the_mental_teen

    the_mental_teen

    [1051]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 11/09/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,682
    CyprisFire wrote:
    EMD123 wrote:
    hercules1991 wrote:
    Scrypter001 wrote:
    hercules1991 wrote:

    I apologie in advance if these points have already been made. I'm wondering who else feels that maybe Zuko did not betray Uncle Iroh? Wouldn't it seem exactly like Iroh to formulate a plan with zuko to infiltrate Azula's command of ba sing se. Think about it. He would have access to info and access to Azula that the avatar may need in the times to come. i really don't feel that the writers would just disregard all the changes Zuko has gone through this season just to have him revert back.

    okay now i've seen a few people complain about Aang "giving up Katara" at the end. I think if you watch the episode again you'll see that the guru says he has to "learn to let her go." is it not possible that he meant that the "Fear" of losing Katara is holding Aang back. That he could learn to accept that she may one day leave in one way or another and that by accepting that and "letting go" of that fear he will unlock his chakra and receieve the cosmic power to control the avatar state. I don't beleieve releasing the love an avatar has for someone would enable them to master the A.S. but releasing the fear that holds that holds them back might.

    what do you think? Do these ideas of mine hold water?


    Lol that's your opinion, but i think, love can do to you lots of things. Imagine she dies, for example, how do you think he would react?
    Do you think he would react the same way, as if it was Sokka to die? I think not.
    I Think that, if he will turn into his avatar state, not controled, OR he can be killed by someone, like Azula did, OR he can, while being super out of control, kill anyone with his infuriating attacks.
    I think.... in the first episode (i'm not sure which it was) when the general something of the Earth kingdom tried to provoke Aang, to trigger his Avatar state.....
    He hurted a lot of inocent people, due to the general's mind game of "killing Katara".


    ?? I think he really has to let go of Katara. He has to forget that he loves her.
    if she were to die he would still be devestated and angry, but thats not the same thing as living in fear of losing her. Its possible to learn to accept that one day something might happen to her. If something does happen to katara Aang might still react violently because he does love her, but he will eventually cope with his loss knowing that he loved her for as long as they were given. besides how can it be possible for him to forget his love for her. Its not just a memory, it's part of him emotionally and spiritually. His love for her is essential to keeping one of his chakras open. While watching the episode again i came to the conclusion that everytime Aang opened one of his chakras it was about releasing a negative emotion like fear, guilt, shame, or apprehension. I think all these emotions are derived from the first one listed: fear. That right there shows that a beneficial emotion like love should not affect his energy in any negative way.

    True if he did not love the air chakra might close since it deals with love.




    I dont know, It seems like monks, messiahs, heros, and philosophers have to forge their own way through life unhindered by love.?? His love for Katara would hold him back in the long run.?? She would be a weakness and a trigger, and it would be dangerous if he would choose saving her over saving the world.


    This is like the superheroes in the comics. They TRY not to get in love with others because they know how horrible it will be when the villain dicovers this. If Aang can realize this, he can tell Katara the whole thing (like on "Spider-Man 1" movie).
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  • Avatar of picketposter14

    picketposter14

    [1052]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 11/23/06
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 5,307
    Three words: Katara was awesome
    Three more words: So was Toph

    Is it just me or is Katara getting WAY better than Aang?

    And I'm not a big fan of Katara or anything, but if the Gaang had listened to her and not gone back to Ba Sing Se, the Earth King wouldn't have blown the Long Feng/Solar Eclipse secret because they wouldn't have happened, and Azula, Mai, and Ty Lee would either leave or be caught

    just saying
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  • Avatar of freshdth

    freshdth

    [1053]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 10/08/05
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 200

    Ok for those of you who read my more recent reply about zukos dream and cant see the hints in what??may or may not still??shape zukos destiny, I will put down what i saw. When It showed the two dragons one repersenting their own meaning. Red=peace Blue=power. Zuko went and followed the orders of the Blue dragon as he did in real life with Azula. Though in doing sooo he was taken into the darkness like Azula did, by??turning him "evil" in real life, but there was something in the darkness something that may change his destiny still even after his choice was to join azula.His mother. As we saw his mother cried out for him and thats when he woke up, though then He awoke to the face of the avatar.???? This may meen(pure speculation) that his action of choosing the path of power may result in the suffering of his own mother and ultimate lead him into regret in which he will try to find peace within himself. Could it possibly be through the avatar we dont know and of course this is purely Speculation

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  • Avatar of the_mental_teen

    the_mental_teen

    [1054]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 11/09/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,682
    freshdth wrote:

    Ok for those of you who read my more recent reply about zukos dream and cant see the hints in what??may or may not still??shape zukos destiny, I will put down what i saw. When It showed the two dragons one repersenting their own meaning. Red=peace Blue=power. Zuko went and followed the orders of the Blue dragon as he did in real life with Azula. Though in doing sooo he was taken into the darkness like Azula did, by??turning him "evil" in real life, but there was something in the darkness something that may change his destiny still even after his choice was to join azula.His mother. As we saw his mother cried out for him and thats when he woke up, though then He awoke to the face of the avatar.???? This may meen(pure speculation) that his action of choosing the path of power may result in the suffering of his own mother and ultimate lead him into regret in which he will try to find peace within himself. Could it possibly be through the avatar we dont know and of course this is purely Speculation


    totally forgot about how the dream was exactly. I so agree with this.

    Also, if you want to make your own funny bloopers, see "Create your own Fake Avatar Bloopers 2". Funny outtakes made by yours truely and others!
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  • Avatar of PrincessAura

    PrincessAura

    [1055]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 12/18/04
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 298
    One way you could interpret that Aang dream Zuko had is that in the end if (when) he turns good and helps take down Ozai and Azula, he will become firelord and help to rebuild and restore the four nations after all the damage his nation has done, just like the avatar is supposed to do.
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  • Avatar of the_mental_teen

    the_mental_teen

    [1056]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 11/09/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,682
    I don't really see a reason to keep this thread up. The finale is over and the season 3 speculation is up.

    By the way, this show is the backbone of Nickelodeon without a doubt. Without this, people will have no lifes and watch re-runs of "Spongebob" and "FOP".
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  • Avatar of bodhi108

    bodhi108

    [1057]Dec 5, 2006
    • member since: 10/31/06
    • level: 1
    • rank: Weatherman
    • posts: 12
    the_mental_teen wrote:
    freshdth wrote:

    Ok for those of you who read my more recent reply about zukos dream and cant see the hints in what??may or may not still??shape zukos destiny, I will put down what i saw. When It showed the two dragons one repersenting their own meaning. Red=peace Blue=power. Zuko went and followed the orders of the Blue dragon as he did in real life with Azula. Though in doing sooo he was taken into the darkness like Azula did, by??turning him "evil" in real life, but there was something in the darkness something that may change his destiny still even after his choice was to join azula.His mother. As we saw his mother cried out for him and thats when he woke up, though then He awoke to the face of the avatar.???? This may meen(pure speculation) that his action of choosing the path of power may result in the suffering of his own mother and ultimate lead him into regret in which he will try to find peace within himself. Could it possibly be through the avatar we dont know and of course this is purely Speculation


    totally forgot about how the dream was exactly. I so agree with this.

    Also, if you want to make your own funny bloopers, see "Create your own Fake Avatar Bloopers 2". Funny outtakes made by yours truely and others!


    yeah that's a good interpt. still they could mean a lot of diff. things. wonder if the writers have a psychologist on the payroll to think of/analyze all this stuff?
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  • Avatar of janedoe401

    janedoe401

    [1058]Dec 6, 2006
    • member since: 08/17/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 267
    ??Another possible explanation for the last part of Zuko's dream wherein he wakes up with Aang's face is that his mind is subconciously telling him that in his single-minded search for the Avatar, he might lose himself.
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  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [1059]Dec 6, 2006
    • member since: 11/05/04
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 5,943
    Or perhaps Zuko's subconscious is saying that Aang is more important to who Zuko is...or rather Aang is part of Zuko identiy...come to think of it until that point Zuko never saw the Avatar since "The Chase"...maybe that's what brought about the change...once the Avatar came back into the picture the Zuko we all know resurfaced...
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  • Avatar of the_mental_teen

    the_mental_teen

    [1060]Dec 6, 2006
    • member since: 11/09/06
    • level: 12
    • rank: Evil Bert
    • posts: 2,682
    Eman5805 wrote:
    Or perhaps Zuko's subconscious is saying that Aang is more important to who Zuko is...or rather Aang is part of Zuko identiy...come to think of it until that point Zuko never saw the Avatar since "The Chase"...maybe that's what brought about the change...once the Avatar came back into the picture the Zuko we all know resurfaced...


    UGH! MY HEAD HURTS!!
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