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Official Avatar Historical Comparisons Thread

  • Avatar of Water78

    Water78

    [41]Aug 1, 2008
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    the 100 year war lasted for 116 years though
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [42]Aug 1, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    vampking06 wrote:

    Hmm... to me, Genghis Khan and his Mongol Empire seem very reminicent of Chin the Conqueror of Kyoshi's time. Actually, now that I think of it, Chin reminds me more of Alexander the Great in the fact that both conquered extreamly large ammounts of land only to be stopped/ killed just short of reaching their goals (Alexander= India, Chin= Kyoshi Island).

    Here's another that came to mind. Ba Sing Se could be considered an Avatar version of the ancient Greek city of Troy. Inpenatrable walls which no foreign army has ever been able to break (took the Greeks and their superior numbers ten years and they still didnt break them). Both were incredibly prosperous and offered sanctuary for those outside their walls. Not to mention both the Earth King and King Priham were positive that no one could conquer their city. And most importantly, both cities fell from the inside, through a coup. And once they infultrated their respective cities, those small number of troops would open the gates for the much larger number of forces for occupation/obliteration. The Trojans had a prince by the name of Hector who was very logical and skeptical about the gods ability to protect their city who ended up being defeated by Achillies, the conflicted Greek warrior who went there to find his glory. On the Greeks side you have Agamemnon ( the King of Greece) who was so obsessed with conquering Troy that when he finally did it, he burnt it to the ground. Then there's Odyssius, a lower king of Greece who was known for being very tactical and resourceful on the battlefield. It was him who thought of and led the troops in the fameous Trojan Horse.

    Yes, Chin the Conqueror does fit Alexander the Great's mold quite well. Unlike later generals Caesar and Genghis, Alexander the great had no talents outside warfare. Once he had completed his conquests and was now the ruler of the greatest empire in the world, all Alexander was able to do was lounge around drinking himself to death. We didn't see much of Chin the Great's ruling abilities, but he didn't look so good in the brief glimpse we saw of him. Even Ozai seems to have restrained himself from ruling openly as a tyrant, prefering to maintain a benevelant image.

    But you're right in Ba Sing Se being like Troy. So, I think that you're saying

    Priam is the Earth King

    Hector is Aang

    Achilles is Zuko

    Aggemenmon is Ozai

    Odysseus is Azula

    EDIT: and Iroh is the wise old man who warned the Trojans that it would be smarter to burn the wooden horse than bring it inside the city.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [43]Aug 1, 2008
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    Water78 wrote:
    the 100 year war lasted for 116 years though

    Well, technically the war in Avatar lasted for longer than 100 years too. But still, the point remains the same - it was a very long time to be at war with someone.

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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [44]Aug 1, 2008
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    I always thought Ba Sing Se was modeled after Constantinople. It was a large city with impenetrable walls. It also could survive prolonged sieges because its agricultural products were produced inside of the city allowing for self-sustainability. Also, the Earth Kingdom reminds me of the Holy Roman Empire. It technically had a central authority, but much power and control was ceded to the local rulers.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [45]Aug 1, 2008
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought Ba Sing Se was modeled after Constantinople. It was a large city with impenetrable walls. It also could survive prolonged sieges because its agricultural products were produced inside of the city allowing for self-sustainability. Also, the Earth Kingdom reminds me of the Holy Roman Empire. It technically had a central authority, but much power and control was ceded to the local rulers.

    Another good comparison. Although the actual world of Avatar seems mostly oriental, the plot, and the way things are run in the world, and how the people behave, all seem fairly western based.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [46]Aug 1, 2008
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    IrohtheTea wrote:

    the earth kingdom was the hardest nation to conoqueor.

    same as carthage, they fought many bloody battles for Rome to finally conquer Hannibal of Carthage.

    The second Punic War (Rome vs Carthage), could actually be taken as being similar to the one in Avatar, but personally, I think that it makes much more sense to say that Carthage was like the Fire Nation.

    Basic outline of war:

    Hannibal Barca, known as the "father of military strategy", began the war by invading Italy with an army of African and Spanish mercenaries, as well as some 60 elephants. Despite appearing at a terrific disadvantage, he was victorious in every battle, eventually even threatening the city of Rome. His goal was nothing less than to burn it and all the lands around it to the ground (or so the Romans said). He was stopped in the end when a Roman general named Scipio Africanus had the idea of taking a Roman army across the sea to attack Carthage, which with Hannibal attacking Italy with its army was defenceless. The tactic worked - Hannibal was forced to withdraw from Italy to defend his homeland. When he met Scipio in battle he found that the Romans had devised new tactics to counter his troops, and he was defeated.

    It's not exact, but parts of the strategies involved in the war are similar to the principles surrounding The Day of Black Sun.

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  • Avatar of CoolioVonJulio

    CoolioVonJulio

    [47]Aug 1, 2008
    • member since: 05/11/08
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Lol. Nah, it wouldn't have been. Genghis was a remarkably good ruler who might've forcefully dominated but brought upon a golden age. His grandson I believe killed the empire that his grandfather fought so hard to construct. I guess Ozai is the evil version of Genghis Kahn.

    actually genghis khan and his descendants were not that good. they used to make piles of the ears of dead and captured enemeies. his descendant hulagu khan sacked baghdad, the knowledge centre of the wolrd at the time. baghdad would never reach that amount of glory or productivity ever again. another descendant of his timurlane sacked damascus and made a pyramid of the heads of all the scholars in the cirty and burned all the books.

    actually the avatar war was really based on the asian front of WW2 the japanese were an archiplago and so is the firenation. large swaths of the earth kingdom were taken over and so was china by japan. it could also be the western frotn. German=firenation

    earthkingdom= russia(large parts conquered. people have strength and pride)

    northern water tribe=england. its north to the fire nation and the seige of the north was much like the battle of britain. many ships or airplanes were assembled butnin the end they were repulsed

    Airnomads= the jews. genocided by the germans or the fire nation

    southern water tribe was probably france or some small european country that was sacked and rendered powerless.

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  • Avatar of CoolioVonJulio

    CoolioVonJulio

    [48]Aug 1, 2008
    • member since: 05/11/08
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    Axrendale wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    vampking06 wrote:

    Hmm... to me, Genghis Khan and his Mongol Empire seem very reminicent of Chin the Conqueror of Kyoshi's time. Actually, now that I think of it, Chin reminds me more of Alexander the Great in the fact that both conquered extreamly large ammounts of land only to be stopped/ killed just short of reaching their goals (Alexander= India, Chin= Kyoshi Island).

    Here's another that came to mind. Ba Sing Se could be considered an Avatar version of the ancient Greek city of Troy. Inpenatrable walls which no foreign army has ever been able to break (took the Greeks and their superior numbers ten years and they still didnt break them). Both were incredibly prosperous and offered sanctuary for those outside their walls. Not to mention both the Earth King and King Priham were positive that no one could conquer their city. And most importantly, both cities fell from the inside, through a coup. And once they infultrated their respective cities, those small number of troops would open the gates for the much larger number of forces for occupation/obliteration. The Trojans had a prince by the name of Hector who was very logical and skeptical about the gods ability to protect their city who ended up being defeated by Achillies, the conflicted Greek warrior who went there to find his glory. On the Greeks side you have Agamemnon ( the King of Greece) who was so obsessed with conquering Troy that when he finally did it, he burnt it to the ground. Then there's Odyssius, a lower king of Greece who was known for being very tactical and resourceful on the battlefield. It was him who thought of and led the troops in the fameous Trojan Horse.

    Yes, Chin the Conqueror does fit Alexander the Great's mold quite well. Unlike later generals Caesar and Genghis, Alexander the great had no talents outside warfare. Once he had completed his conquests and was now the ruler of the greatest empire in the world, all Alexander was able to do was lounge around drinking himself to death. We didn't see much of Chin the Great's ruling abilities, but he didn't look so good in the brief glimpse we saw of him. Even Ozai seems to have restrained himself from ruling openly as a tyrant, prefering to maintain a benevelant image.

    But you're right in Ba Sing Se being like Troy. So, I think that you're saying

    Priam is the Earth King

    Hector is Aang

    Achilles is Zuko

    Aggemenmon is Ozai

    Odysseus is Azula

    EDIT: and Iroh is the wise old man who warned the Trojans that it would be smarter to burn the wooden horse than bring it inside the city.

    hector gets killed and the wise old man who wanred the trojans to burn the wooden horse was prince hector.

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  • Avatar of CoolioVonJulio

    CoolioVonJulio

    [49]Aug 1, 2008
    • member since: 05/11/08
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    constantinople is like ba singe se. first the arab muslims tried to conquer constantinople three times but each time they were repulsed. it wasnt until the ottoman turks that constantinople was taken. and it was because someone betrayed contstantinople like the dai li did to ba sing se

    this is very fun

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  • Avatar of vampking06

    vampking06

    [50]Aug 1, 2008
    • member since: 01/18/07
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    Axrendale wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    vampking06 wrote:

    Hmm... to me, Genghis Khan and his Mongol Empire seem very reminicent of Chin the Conqueror of Kyoshi's time. Actually, now that I think of it, Chin reminds me more of Alexander the Great in the fact that both conquered extreamly large ammounts of land only to be stopped/ killed just short of reaching their goals (Alexander= India, Chin= Kyoshi Island).

    Here's another that came to mind. Ba Sing Se could be considered an Avatar version of the ancient Greek city of Troy. Inpenatrable walls which no foreign army has ever been able to break (took the Greeks and their superior numbers ten years and they still didnt break them). Both were incredibly prosperous and offered sanctuary for those outside their walls. Not to mention both the Earth King and King Priham were positive that no one could conquer their city. And most importantly, both cities fell from the inside, through a coup. And once they infultrated their respective cities, those small number of troops would open the gates for the much larger number of forces for occupation/obliteration. The Trojans had a prince by the name of Hector who was very logical and skeptical about the gods ability to protect their city who ended up being defeated by Achillies, the conflicted Greek warrior who went there to find his glory. On the Greeks side you have Agamemnon ( the King of Greece) who was so obsessed with conquering Troy that when he finally did it, he burnt it to the ground. Then there's Odyssius, a lower king of Greece who was known for being very tactical and resourceful on the battlefield. It was him who thought of and led the troops in the fameous Trojan Horse.

    Yes, Chin the Conqueror does fit Alexander the Great's mold quite well. Unlike later generals Caesar and Genghis, Alexander the great had no talents outside warfare. Once he had completed his conquests and was now the ruler of the greatest empire in the world, all Alexander was able to do was lounge around drinking himself to death. We didn't see much of Chin the Great's ruling abilities, but he didn't look so good in the brief glimpse we saw of him. Even Ozai seems to have restrained himself from ruling openly as a tyrant, prefering to maintain a benevelant image.

    But you're right in Ba Sing Se being like Troy. So, I think that you're saying

    Priam is the Earth King

    Hector is Aang

    Achilles is Zuko

    Aggemenmon is Ozai

    Odysseus is Azula

    EDIT: and Iroh is the wise old man who warned the Trojans that it would be smarter to burn the wooden horse than bring it inside the city.

    Thats pretty much what I was going for except I think Hector wouldve been Sokka with being a great leader and strategist. Aang was a great hero, but a leader not so much. Idk where Aang would fit into the Trojan war. Maybe Paris, but he was the dumbass who started the war.

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  • Avatar of avataraang113

    avataraang113

    [51]Aug 1, 2008
    • member since: 07/20/08
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    uuuhhhhh.....there's a war in avatar and there's been wars in our world????? hahaha...idk.....i forgot everything cuz its summer....
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [52]Aug 1, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    CoolioVonJulio wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Lol. Nah, it wouldn't have been. Genghis was a remarkably good ruler who might've forcefully dominated but brought upon a golden age. His grandson I believe killed the empire that his grandfather fought so hard to construct. I guess Ozai is the evil version of Genghis Kahn.

    actually genghis khan and his descendants were not that good. they used to make piles of the ears of dead and captured enemeies. his descendant hulagu khan sacked baghdad, the knowledge centre of the wolrd at the time. baghdad would never reach that amount of glory or productivity ever again. another descendant of his timurlane sacked damascus and made a pyramid of the heads of all the scholars in the cirty and burned all the books.

    I beg to disagree. Nobody can deny that Genghis was a brutal conqueror, but he was an incredibly good ruler. As the leader of the empire he had a policy of racial and religious tolerance, allowing anyone in the empire, no matter their ethnicity, to serve in the highest positions of the government he put together. His code of laws was vastly superior to those of the people he had conquered, dispensing justice more efficiently, and more importantly it was an impartial one that refused to favor anyone over someone else. Genghis also paid great attention to the reestablishment of the Silk Road trade, which had declined in the past. His efforts in that regard resulted in economic prosperity from China to Bulgaria. He also used the silk road to spread technological advancements of the Chinese to all the peoples of his empire, and from them on to Europe. He and his heirs invested a great deal of time and money rebuilding the kingdoms they had shattered. The new China that they rebuilt in many ways far outshone the old one. The diplomatic laws and trade agreements that Genghis set up to manage all this laid the foundation for the laws and trade agreements that still exist today between most of the countries of Asia. Cultural learning and education were encouraged.

    So Genghis remains something of an enigma. While he was certainly not a good man, he was not a bad man either.

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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [53]Aug 2, 2008
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    CoolioVonJulio wrote:

    isabelwhatx wrote:
    Lol. Nah, it wouldn't have been. Genghis was a remarkably good ruler who might've forcefully dominated but brought upon a golden age. His grandson I believe killed the empire that his grandfather fought so hard to construct. I guess Ozai is the evil version of Genghis Kahn.

    actually genghis khan and his descendants were not that good. they used to make piles of the ears of dead and captured enemeies. his descendant hulagu khan sacked baghdad, the knowledge centre of the wolrd at the time. baghdad would never reach that amount of glory or productivity ever again. another descendant of his timurlane sacked damascus and made a pyramid of the heads of all the scholars in the cirty and burned all the books.

    actually the avatar war was really based on the asian front of WW2 the japanese were an archiplago and so is the firenation. large swaths of the earth kingdom were taken over and so was china by japan. it could also be the western frotn. German=firenation

    earthkingdom= russia(large parts conquered. people have strength and pride)

    northern water tribe=england. its north to the fire nation and the seige of the north was much like the battle of britain. many ships or airplanes were assembled butnin the end they were repulsed

    Airnomads= the jews. genocided by the germans or the fire nation

    southern water tribe was probably france or some small european country that was sacked and rendered powerless.


    All because Genghis Kahn was cruel doesn't make him a bad ruler. He took many, many countries out of the dark age. He encouraged the Silk Road which allowed a great economy to form. Things from Germany, China, and countless other places were now available to other countries. His ways of getting such a great economy might not have been very humane, but the outcome was astounding. Who knows? Maybe that's what Ozai would've done to the Fire Nation.
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  • Avatar of slumshoes

    slumshoes

    [54]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 10/07/07
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    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought Ba Sing Se was modeled after Constantinople. It was a large city with impenetrable walls. It also could survive prolonged sieges because its agricultural products were produced inside of the city allowing for self-sustainability. Also, the Earth Kingdom reminds me of the Holy Roman Empire. It technically had a central authority, but much power and control was ceded to the local rulers.


    Isn't Ba Sing Se modeled after the Great Wall of CHina. You know the Biggest and Longest Wall in the entire World?
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  • Avatar of isabelwhatx

    isabelwhatx

    [55]Aug 2, 2008
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    slumshoes wrote:
    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought Ba Sing Se was modeled after Constantinople. It was a large city with impenetrable walls. It also could survive prolonged sieges because its agricultural products were produced inside of the city allowing for self-sustainability. Also, the Earth Kingdom reminds me of the Holy Roman Empire. It technically had a central authority, but much power and control was ceded to the local rulers.


    Isn't Ba Sing Se modeled after the Great Wall of CHina. You know the Biggest and Longest Wall in the entire World?

    It could be as well. There's a million and one ways to interpret things in Avatar. We're just shooting out some ideas =]
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [56]Aug 2, 2008
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    isabelwhatx wrote:
    slumshoes wrote:
    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought Ba Sing Se was modeled after Constantinople. It was a large city with impenetrable walls. It also could survive prolonged sieges because its agricultural products were produced inside of the city allowing for self-sustainability. Also, the Earth Kingdom reminds me of the Holy Roman Empire. It technically had a central authority, but much power and control was ceded to the local rulers.
    Isn't Ba Sing Se modeled after the Great Wall of CHina. You know the Biggest and Longest Wall in the entire World?
    It could be as well. There's a million and one ways to interpret things in Avatar. We're just shooting out some ideas =]
    It could be based on the Great Wall, but I think Ba Sing Se as a whole was based on Constantinople. My earlier post denotes the vast similarities between Ba Sing Se and Constantinople.
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  • Avatar of macman954754

    macman954754

    [57]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 07/28/06
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    i am surprised that no one else has mentioned this... the white lotus society is much like the free masons of today. sure there are no great lodges that the lotus people hang in, but the secrecy, messages, and power are much like the masons today.
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  • Avatar of Jackson5050

    Jackson5050

    [58]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 07/23/08
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    I always thought the Order of the White Lotus was based on the secret Buddhist organization, The Society of the White Lotus.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [59]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    macman954754 wrote:
    i am surprised that no one else has mentioned this... the white lotus society is much like the free masons of today. sure there are no great lodges that the lotus people hang in, but the secrecy, messages, and power are much like the masons today.

    Interesting observation. It is a fact that no world, real or imaginary, is complete without some sort of mysterious "secret society". Back in the time of the Romans it was the Christians, who at the time were persecuted for their beliefs and had to hide. In the Middle Ages it was the Knights Templar, and the rumors that they had survived the crusade against them. Today, as you said, it's the Freemasons. Everyone has a fascination of a sort with the mysterious; the stuff that we know is out there, but remains beyond our reach. This fascination expresses itself in the fact that it is incredibly rare to find a fictional story that does not at some point have some kind of "secret society".

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [60]Aug 2, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    macman954754 wrote:
    i am surprised that no one else has mentioned this... the white lotus society is much like the free masons of today. sure there are no great lodges that the lotus people hang in, but the secrecy, messages, and power are much like the masons today.

    Interesting observation. It is a fact that no world, real or imaginary, is complete without some sort of mysterious "secret society". Back in the time of the Romans it was the Christians, who at the time were persecuted for their beliefs and had to hide. In the Middle Ages it was the Knights Templar, and the rumors that they had survived the crusade against them. Today, as you said, it's the Freemasons. Everyone has a fascination of a sort with the mysterious; the stuff that we know is out there, but remains beyond our reach. This fascination expresses itself in the fact that it is incredibly rare to find a fictional story that does not at some point have some kind of "secret society".

    EDIT:

    Jackson5050 wrote:
    I always thought the Order of the White Lotus was based on the secret Buddhist organization, The Society of the White Lotus.

    Or it could be that.

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