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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Azula's breakdown

  • Avatar of music4life17

    music4life17

    [101]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/04/07
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 198
    Hiei1314 wrote:

    Well, now I feel bad! I (along with all of my friends) was so happy that Azula went crazy! I loved the way it happened, it just felt so real and I got really into it. I was celebratig when she was roaring and crying and spitting blue fire. The whole thing from "Don't treat me like Zuko!!" to those final fire breaths was....no, wait, everything from "No, you miscalculated!!" on was all just one amazing thing to watch.

    But now I feel bad for loving what happened to her, because everyone here seems to feel sorry for her

    But I have to say that final battle between Azula and Zuko was awesome!

    Though that's just stating a fact Anyhoo, as if the fight wasn't cool enough, the music just really set the perfect mood. I was completely into it. That music just somehow made the fight "more intense," as waterbender93 put it.

    Ahem, so as for Azula having a chance at rehabilitating, I'd say of course not. Many people here have already stated the main reasons for why it would be impossible/extremely unlikely, so I'll just leave it at that. And as much I loved seeing her being defeated in the way that she was, I'd have to say her defeat wasn't all that legit. Zuko even said so himself, that something was off about her, that's why he wasn't afraid to face her alone. So I'd have to say her defeat was mostly due to her mental state (but I can't deny that if Zuko and Katara had faced her together from the beginning, she had a good chance of losing anyway).

    P.S. Who else thought that Katara was just...there? Like she didn't really do anything important for the battle? I mean, if she wan't there, Zuko would have redirected her lightning and beat Azula anyway. I mean, other than getting to see Azula bound up in chains and go completely crazy, I felt Katara was pretty useless

    P.P.S. I, for one, was shocked at how much stronger firebending got with the comet. We all knew it got get stronger, but dang, that was a lot of fire!

    EDIT

    Yeah, I wonderd that, too: What happened to her in the end? We don't even need a long answer, a short view of her in a jail cell for insane prisoners would have been enough for me (If that's what happened, that is. But you know what I mean.)

    Don't feel bad. You have the right to your own opinion. I as well enjoyed that she finally got what was coming to her.

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  • Avatar of -TheSecondSign-

    -TheSecondSign-

    [102]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/03/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 679

    music4life17 wrote:
    Yes. I felt absolutely no pity for Azula. I believe she got what she deserved for all the pain she's inflicted on everyone else whether she did it intentionally or not. Zuko and Katara just standing there gave it some finality in that Azula was truly crazy. They couldn't do anything for her - she is the product of her own destructive behavior and she needed to be stopped. Call me cold hearted but I thought she recieved a fitting end.

    You're not coldhearted. You don't feel pity for crazy or evil people.

    I don't either.

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  • Avatar of wilddog2k8

    wilddog2k8

    [103]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 05/02/03
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 124
    -TheSecondSign- wrote:

    LordMordor wrote:
    I don't know, seeing her chained up and practically writhing on the ground was a VERY powerful image. You really can't help but pity her after that, you can see it the way both Katara and Zuko look at her

    I didn't feel much pity. I felt like some form of justice was finally attained. All the people she murdered or maimed.

    She deserved it.



    I don't think she ever actually KILLED anyone. Maybe severely injured, or attempted to kill, like Aang. But there is still a chance of recovery for her. The story creators know what they are doing. They would not have left two major plot holes like that unless they planned on explaining in some way. Plus the way Zuko asked Ozai where is mother is and then the next scene he is happy and serving cups of tea, the answer must not have been so bad. We will eventually find out, they would not have wasted time and money making that scene unless they plan on continuing that particular plot. And I agree with the other guy, Azula and Ursa plot holes are probably related in some way. We will find out....in due time. until then, re-watch all the episodes until yo have the script memorized!!!!
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  • Avatar of inuyashaluva18

    inuyashaluva18

    [104]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 01/06/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 345
    DrAvatar wrote:
    Did anyone else feel bad for Azula even though she was pure evil up until then?


    Honestly, if she wasn't breathing fire from her mouth, I would have given her a hug.

    She needed one.
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  • Avatar of -TheSecondSign-

    -TheSecondSign-

    [105]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/03/07
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 679
    wilddog2k8 wrote:
    -TheSecondSign- wrote:

    LordMordor wrote:
    I don't know, seeing her chained up and practically writhing on the ground was a VERY powerful image. You really can't help but pity her after that, you can see it the way both Katara and Zuko look at her

    I didn't feel much pity. I felt like some form of justice was finally attained. All the people she murdered or maimed.

    She deserved it.

    I don't think she ever actually KILLED anyone. Maybe severely injured, or attempted to kill, like Aang. But there is still a chance of recovery for her. The story creators know what they are doing. They would not have left two major plot holes like that unless they planned on explaining in some way. Plus the way Zuko asked Ozai where is mother is and then the next scene he is happy and serving cups of tea, the answer must not have been so bad. We will eventually find out, they would not have wasted time and money making that scene unless they plan on continuing that particular plot. And I agree with the other guy, Azula and Ursa plot holes are probably related in some way. We will find out....in due time. until then, re-watch all the episodes until yo have the script memorized!!!!

    You don't think during the military operations and invasions she was at the head of, her conquering Ba Sing Se, that noone died during that?

    You don't think all of her ruthlessness was used on innocent people at one time?

    I think that, as a warrior of a nation that was brainwashed and convinced it was holier than, she murdered some innocent person.

    Edited on 07/20/2008 1:37pm
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [106]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640

    -TheSecondSign- wrote:
    I didn't feel much pity. I felt like some form of justice was finally attained. All the people she murdered or maimed. She deserved it.

    music4life17 wrote:
    Yes. I felt absolutely no pity for Azula. I believe she got what she deserved for all the pain she's inflicted on everyone else whether she did it intentionally or not. Zuko and Katara just standing there gave it some finality in that Azula was truly crazy. They couldn't do anything for her - she is the product of her own destructive behavior and she needed to be stopped. Call me cold hearted but I thought she recieved a fitting end.

    Silence, Heartless people who don't believe in redemption!

    *prepares to shoot lightning at heartless people*

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [107]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    ShadowfaxSTF wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    I do have to say that I loved the way in which Azula was finally defeated. It was the ultimate irony; ever since we first saw her she has been defeating opponents stronger than herself through trickery (think Iroh, Aang...), indeed, that was exactly what she did to Zuko - it is a measure of her sheer awesomeness that even when she had completely lost it she still figured out how to outsmart her opponent. Then, when she faced Katara, and for the first time in ages was up against a foe far weaker than her, she was herself defeated through trickery. If ever a villain was ever defeated through sheer irony, I think it is definitely Azula.

    Have you ever had the experience of falling in love with a character of a story? I don't know how it happened, but somehow, it happened to me with Azula. I did not become an Avatar fanatic the first time I saw the show, in fact I had seen several episodes before I fell in love with it. Why did I fall in love with it? Because I saw an episode with Azula in it. To be precise, it was 208, 'The Chase'. Up until that point, I had only seen a couple of episodes from Book 1, and the first ten minutes of "The Blind Bandit", and so when Azula first appeared during this episode I had no idea who she was, how she could shoot lightning, or how the heck anyone, no matter how awesome their character could be capable of easily beating the good guys, actually hurting one of them, on what I had previously taken to be just another Nickelodeon cartoon. I was fascinated, and it was this fascination that drove me to keep watching Avatr, ultimately becoming hopelessly addicted. Azula remained my favorite character (although Aang soon became a close second), and throughout book two, whenever she appeared in a fight, I found myself subconsciously cheering for her. I don't know what it was about her character that appealed to me at this point. Perhaps it was her sheer defiant will, her iron spirit, her refusal to submit. Perhaps it was her cunning, the cold calculation that made her such a good villain. Perhaps it was that she appeared to be an avid student of history (I love history, and am always willing to give anyone who takes an interest in it a chance). Perhaps it was the fact that she kicked butt. Perhaps it was simply the fact that she was hot (you can't deny it!). Either way, she continued to hold my interest.

    I approached the finale of book two therefore, with a great sense of trepidation. I was certain that Azula was heading towards a similar fate to Zhao, and while I knew that I would always remain loyal to Avatar, I had a gut feeling that I simply would never enjoy it the same way. But I was in for a big surprise. As the credits flashed across the screen (I was watching it on DVD) I simply sat on the couch, frozen, with so many different emotions racing through me that I think it was some time before I actually got up. As much as I had wanted Aang to win, I found myself glad that Azula had survived.

    Season three began to air not long afterwards, and before long the first four episodes had come and gone, and "The Beach" was on. And it was in this episode that for the first time we began to get the vague hints that Azula was something more than a cold-blooded villain.

    I think that Azula's chief problem is the fact that in addition to believing that her mother hated her, and thought that she was a monster, she also knew that her mother was right - she was a monster, in many senses of the word. And she believed that she could never be anything else. This soon lead to her belief that if her mother didn't love her, then nobody else could ever love her either. Her solution to the problem was to effectively cut herself off from all such emotions as love, friendship, etc. Ultimately, she came to live in a world of cold logic and ruthlessness, and she believed that everyone else thought the same way as she did. For all her brilliance at reading and manipulating people and their emotions she had no concept of other people's feelings. Her one saving grace was her friend ship with Mai and Ty Lee. For all Azula's manipulations and domination of her friends, I feel that there was a friendship there, at some level, perhaps with the part of Azula that had originally been devastated by her mother's rejection. It was in this beach that we saw the this side of Azula for perhaps the only time, when she made a genuine effort to apologize to and comfort Ty Lee. It didn't last long, and it never showed itself again, but it was definitely there.

    It was Azula's insensitivity to other's feelings, as well as her natural assumption that everyone thought the way she did, that lead to her "miscalculation" at the Boiling Rock. Had she been in Mai's position, Azula would have forgotten all about Zuko, and done the "smart thing", AKA "You should have feared me more!". She had no idea that anyone was capable of loving someone else to the extent of dieing for them.

    When Mai, and soon after, Ty Lee, betrayed her, Azula was most likely devastated. Her friends had most likely been the only people other than her mother who she had ever felt close to, or wanted to feel close to. her immediate reaction was to go straight after the person she perceived as having been the cause of her friends betrayal - Zuko, but he evaded her.

    Azula was left alone with the realization that her close friends had betrayed her. And with this came the realization that if she could not control her friends (as she had believed was perfectly natural to do), she couldn't control anyone else either. We got the first hint of her new vulnerability in "The Phoenix King", during her conversation with Ozai. As soon as she heard that Ozai intended to leave her behind, Azula immediately jumped to the conclusion that her father was also turning on her - "You can't treat me like Zuko!". She was soon reassured by his decision to make her firelord, but the damage was done. Azula was left twitchy, jumpy, and constantly analyzing everyone and everything around her for the tiniest little sign that betrayal was coming. Soon, her paranoia had grown to such a level that she ordered everyone to depart believing that the only person she could count on was herself. As it turned out, there she could no longer even trust herself, and the final straw was when she found even her hair betraying her.

    Up until this point, Azula had lead a rigidly controlled life, controlled by herself. Everything about her being was carefully maintained in a state of perfection. When she finally realized that she could no longer even control her hair, let alone the people around her, she recognized at some level that she had lost control of her own life. And with the careful, perfect, artificial being that she had fashioned herself into gone, the tiny remaining need for companionship, love, that remained in her came out in the form of Ursa, the person whose apparent rejection had originally decided Azula in what she would make of her life. What Azula never allowed herself to admit before was that her mother may have thought her a monster, but still loved her, still had hope for her. Azula could never allow herself to admit this, because the moment she did so, she admitted that she had been wrong, that she might have taken a different path in life to the one she had taken. It was with this realization that Azula finally gave in and admitted to herself that she had been wrong, that if she had realized earlier that her mother had actually loved her, then she could have lead an incredibly different life to the one she had. The revelation was toomuch for her, and she attempt to banish it, shattering the mirror. But it was too late. All of her concepts of life had been shattered. All she could think of to do was to go through with what she had originally intended to do, and be crowned firelord.

    But as the coronation was taking place, she had an apparent stroke of luck, in the form of the arrival of Zuko. Here at last for Azula was something she could fight, something she could blame all of her problems on. It had been Zuko who been the center of their mother's love. It had been Zuko who had caused Mai and Ty lee to betray her. It had been Zuko who had exposed her for lying to Ozai, potentially lessening his favor of her. In short, Zuko was someone she could take out all her anger on.

    The type of firebending Azula and Ozai favored was fueled by anger, rage, etc, etc, and Azula had plenty of that to call upon. Zuko's original firebending would have been stronger, but Azula's intensified blue fire was its match, and even though she might be tottering on the brink of utter insanity, Azula's prodigal mental abilities, her cunning and tactical genius, were intact. After a hard fought battle, Azula had defeated her brother once again. At last, it seemed that she had a chance of getting her life back together, having everything she ever dreamed of. But there was one small problem. Some pesky water tribe peasent girl was attempting to get to Zuko, heal him, bring him back to ruin Azula's life again. This could not be allowed. The waterbender was obviously inferior power-wise, so Azula most likely wasn't even thinking as she blindly barged after her, looking for the person who was trying to ruin things just as they seemed to be getting better, so she could burn her alive. THe next thing Azula new, she had been frozen in a block of ice, her hands had been chained, and moments later she saw Zuko, alive, and looking like he was going to live, and take everything she had had left. For Azula, it was the end.

    That is my interpretation of what went wrong with Azula. My only authority is as a person who has been fascinated with Azula for about a year and a half, and who continues to be fascinated by her, and what will happen to her now. Something that keeps coming up is; what will happen to Azula now?

    I say that she will heal. Everything about her life has changed, and I think that she has come to some fairly major revelations about that life. I personally think Azula will be the one (in the imaginary future of Avatar) who finds Ursa. What happens to Azula and where Ursa is are the two major gaps at the end of the story, and as such, I believe that they are related somehow. Whether Azula would be capable of the same type of redemption as her brother is very questionable, but it should be remembered that what originally shaped Azula's belief that she was always going to be a "monster", was her belief that her mother thought her so. If Ursa were to reassure Azula that she had hope, that would be a huge step in a possible redemption similar to the one Iroh guided Zuko along, possibly right down to the sickness and nightmares.

    i think that leaving these substantial holes at the end of their story may well be Bryke's final and greatest stroke of genius. Stories that tie up all the loose ends are the ones that loose all interst once they are finished. But the ones that leave dark corners unexplored, wide open futures, these re the stories that inspire fans to stay with them for years, attempting to explore those dark corners, those unspoken futures.

    Although the magnificent tale of the last airbender may be over, his world is not finished yet. But that will have to wait for another day.

    Are you a psychoanalyst? My gosh, what a great description of who Azula is and how she thinks. You just wrote an amazing breakdown of this character, kudos!

    And BTW-- I agree with everything you said. I personally am amazed at how "human" they portrayed her, not just a cold-blooded monster, but a human monster with decisions confusions and emotions.

    Kudos to the Avatar creators for not just making cartoon personas, but characters. People we can identify, come to love (or hate), people that we can understand. I will miss Avatar surely, but I've fallen in love with the characters and show... and will surely be buying the Complete Collection when it comes out.

    Cheers to the Avatar and Azula makers!

    Cheers!

    BTW, what's a psychoanalyst?

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  • Avatar of inuyashaluva18

    inuyashaluva18

    [108]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 01/06/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 345
    cdkee wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    I do have to say that I loved the way in which Azula was finally defeated. It was the ultimate irony; ever since we first saw her she has been defeating opponents stronger than herself through trickery (think Iroh, Aang...), indeed, that was exactly what she did to Zuko - it is a measure of her sheer awesomeness that even when she had completely lost it she still figured out how to outsmart her opponent. Then, when she faced Katara, and for the first time in ages was up against a foe far weaker than her, she was herself defeated through trickery. If ever a villain was ever defeated through sheer irony, I think it is definitely Azula.

    Have you ever had the experience of falling in love with a character of a story? I don't know how it happened, but somehow, it happened to me with Azula. I did not become an Avatar fanatic the first time I saw the show, in fact I had seen several episodes before I fell in love with it. Why did I fall in love with it? Because I saw an episode with Azula in it. To be precise, it was 208, 'The Chase'. Up until that point, I had only seen a couple of episodes from Book 1, and the first ten minutes of "The Blind Bandit", and so when Azula first appeared during this episode I had no idea who she was, how she could shoot lightning, or how the heck anyone, no matter how awesome their character could be capable of easily beating the good guys, actually hurting one of them, on what I had previously taken to be just another Nickelodeon cartoon. I was fascinated, and it was this fascination that drove me to keep watching Avatr, ultimately becoming hopelessly addicted. Azula remained my favorite character (although Aang soon became a close second), and throughout book two, whenever she appeared in a fight, I found myself subconsciously cheering for her. I don't know what it was about her character that appealed to me at this point. Perhaps it was her sheer defiant will, her iron spirit, her refusal to submit. Perhaps it was her cunning, the cold calculation that made her such a good villain. Perhaps it was that she appeared to be an avid student of history (I love history, and am always willing to give anyone who takes an interest in it a chance). Perhaps it was the fact that she kicked butt. Perhaps it was simply the fact that she was hot (you can't deny it!). Either way, she continued to hold my interest.

    I approached the finale of book two therefore, with a great sense of trepidation. I was certain that Azula was heading towards a similar fate to Zhao, and while I knew that I would always remain loyal to Avatar, I had a gut feeling that I simply would never enjoy it the same way. But I was in for a big surprise. As the credits flashed across the screen (I was watching it on DVD) I simply sat on the couch, frozen, with so many different emotions racing through me that I think it was some time before I actually got up. As much as I had wanted Aang to win, I found myself glad that Azula had survived.

    Season three began to air not long afterwards, and before long the first four episodes had come and gone, and "The Beach" was on. And it was in this episode that for the first time we began to get the vague hints that Azula was something more than a cold-blooded villain.

    I think that Azula's chief problem is the fact that in addition to believing that her mother hated her, and thought that she was a monster, she also knew that her mother was right - she was a monster, in many senses of the word. And she believed that she could never be anything else. This soon lead to her belief that if her mother didn't love her, then nobody else could ever love her either. Her solution to the problem was to effectively cut herself off from all such emotions as love, friendship, etc. Ultimately, she came to live in a world of cold logic and ruthlessness, and she believed that everyone else thought the same way as she did. For all her brilliance at reading and manipulating people and their emotions she had no concept of other people's feelings. Her one saving grace was her friend ship with Mai and Ty Lee. For all Azula's manipulations and domination of her friends, I feel that there was a friendship there, at some level, perhaps with the part of Azula that had originally been devastated by her mother's rejection. It was in this beach that we saw the this side of Azula for perhaps the only time, when she made a genuine effort to apologize to and comfort Ty Lee. It didn't last long, and it never showed itself again, but it was definitely there.

    It was Azula's insensitivity to other's feelings, as well as her natural assumption that everyone thought the way she did, that lead to her "miscalculation" at the Boiling Rock. Had she been in Mai's position, Azula would have forgotten all about Zuko, and done the "smart thing", AKA "You should have feared me more!". She had no idea that anyone was capable of loving someone else to the extent of dieing for them.

    When Mai, and soon after, Ty Lee, betrayed her, Azula was most likely devastated. Her friends had most likely been the only people other than her mother who she had ever felt close to, or wanted to feel close to. her immediate reaction was to go straight after the person she perceived as having been the cause of her friends betrayal - Zuko, but he evaded her.

    Azula was left alone with the realization that her close friends had betrayed her. And with this came the realization that if she could not control her friends (as she had believed was perfectly natural to do), she couldn't control anyone else either. We got the first hint of her new vulnerability in "The Phoenix King", during her conversation with Ozai. As soon as she heard that Ozai intended to leave her behind, Azula immediately jumped to the conclusion that her father was also turning on her - "You can't treat me like Zuko!". She was soon reassured by his decision to make her firelord, but the damage was done. Azula was left twitchy, jumpy, and constantly analyzing everyone and everything around her for the tiniest little sign that betrayal was coming. Soon, her paranoia had grown to such a level that she ordered everyone to depart believing that the only person she could count on was herself. As it turned out, there she could no longer even trust herself, and the final straw was when she found even her hair betraying her.

    Up until this point, Azula had lead a rigidly controlled life, controlled by herself. Everything about her being was carefully maintained in a state of perfection. When she finally realized that she could no longer even control her hair, let alone the people around her, she recognized at some level that she had lost control of her own life. And with the careful, perfect, artificial being that she had fashioned herself into gone, the tiny remaining need for companionship, love, that remained in her came out in the form of Ursa, the person whose apparent rejection had originally decided Azula in what she would make of her life. What Azula never allowed herself to admit before was that her mother may have thought her a monster, but still loved her, still had hope for her. Azula could never allow herself to admit this, because the moment she did so, she admitted that she had been wrong, that she might have taken a different path in life to the one she had taken. It was with this realization that Azula finally gave in and admitted to herself that she had been wrong, that if she had realized earlier that her mother had actually loved her, then she could have lead an incredibly different life to the one she had. The revelation was toomuch for her, and she attempt to banish it, shattering the mirror. But it was too late. All of her concepts of life had been shattered. All she could think of to do was to go through with what she had originally intended to do, and be crowned firelord.

    But as the coronation was taking place, she had an apparent stroke of luck, in the form of the arrival of Zuko. Here at last for Azula was something she could fight, something she could blame all of her problems on. It had been Zuko who been the center of their mother's love. It had been Zuko who had caused Mai and Ty lee to betray her. It had been Zuko who had exposed her for lying to Ozai, potentially lessening his favor of her. In short, Zuko was someone she could take out all her anger on.

    The type of firebending Azula and Ozai favored was fueled by anger, rage, etc, etc, and Azula had plenty of that to call upon. Zuko's original firebending would have been stronger, but Azula's intensified blue fire was its match, and even though she might be tottering on the brink of utter insanity, Azula's prodigal mental abilities, her cunning and tactical genius, were intact. After a hard fought battle, Azula had defeated her brother once again. At last, it seemed that she had a chance of getting her life back together, having everything she ever dreamed of. But there was one small problem. Some pesky water tribe peasent girl was attempting to get to Zuko, heal him, bring him back to ruin Azula's life again. This could not be allowed. The waterbender was obviously inferior power-wise, so Azula most likely wasn't even thinking as she blindly barged after her, looking for the person who was trying to ruin things just as they seemed to be getting better, so she could burn her alive. THe next thing Azula new, she had been frozen in a block of ice, her hands had been chained, and moments later she saw Zuko, alive, and looking like he was going to live, and take everything she had had left. For Azula, it was the end.

    That is my interpretation of what went wrong with Azula. My only authority is as a person who has been fascinated with Azula for about a year and a half, and who continues to be fascinated by her, and what will happen to her now. Something that keeps coming up is; what will happen to Azula now?

    I say that she will heal. Everything about her life has changed, and I think that she has come to some fairly major revelations about that life. I personally think Azula will be the one (in the imaginary future of Avatar) who finds Ursa. What happens to Azula and where Ursa is are the two major gaps at the end of the story, and as such, I believe that they are related somehow. Whether Azula would be capable of the same type of redemption as her brother is very questionable, but it should be remembered that what originally shaped Azula's belief that she was always going to be a "monster", was her belief that her mother thought her so. If Ursa were to reassure Azula that she had hope, that would be a huge step in a possible redemption similar to the one Iroh guided Zuko along, possibly right down to the sickness and nightmares.

    i think that leaving these substantial holes at the end of their story may well be Bryke's final and greatest stroke of genius. Stories that tie up all the loose ends are the ones that loose all interst once they are finished. But the ones that leave dark corners unexplored, wide open futures, these re the stories that inspire fans to stay with them for years, attempting to explore those dark corners, those unspoken futures.

    Although the magnificent tale of the last airbender may be over, his world is not finished yet. But that will have to wait for another day.

    Wow. Kudos for the interesting read.
    I'll say. This was stuff my friend and I stayed up half the night talking about, but you went and put it all in order and perspective. Also, if you're not a psychologist, you really should consider a career in that field.
    Edited on 07/20/2008 1:43pm
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  • Avatar of bambi0084

    bambi0084

    [109]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/02/05
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 90
    Axrendale wrote:

    I do have to say that I loved the way in which Azula was finally defeated. It was the ultimate irony; ever since we first saw her she has been defeating opponents stronger than herself through trickery (think Iroh, Aang...), indeed, that was exactly what she did to Zuko - it is a measure of her sheer awesomeness that even when she had completely lost it she still figured out how to outsmart her opponent. Then, when she faced Katara, and for the first time in ages was up against a foe far weaker than her, she was herself defeated through trickery. If ever a villain was ever defeated through sheer irony, I think it is definitely Azula.

    Have you ever had the experience of falling in love with a character of a story? I don't know how it happened, but somehow, it happened to me with Azula. I did not become an Avatar fanatic the first time I saw the show, in fact I had seen several episodes before I fell in love with it. Why did I fall in love with it? Because I saw an episode with Azula in it. To be precise, it was 208, 'The Chase'. Up until that point, I had only seen a couple of episodes from Book 1, and the first ten minutes of "The Blind Bandit", and so when Azula first appeared during this episode I had no idea who she was, how she could shoot lightning, or how the heck anyone, no matter how awesome their character could be capable of easily beating the good guys, actually hurting one of them, on what I had previously taken to be just another Nickelodeon cartoon. I was fascinated, and it was this fascination that drove me to keep watching Avatar, ultimately becoming hopelessly addicted. Azula remained my favorite character (although Aang soon became a close second), and throughout book two, whenever she appeared in a fight, I found myself subconsciously cheering for her. I don't know what it was about her character that appealed to me at this point. Perhaps it was her sheer defiant will, her iron spirit, her refusal to submit. Perhaps it was her cunning, the cold calculation that made her such a good villain. Perhaps it was that she appeared to be an avid student of history (I love history, and am always willing to give anyone who takes an interest in it a chance). Perhaps it was the fact that she kicked butt. Perhaps it was simply the fact that she was hot (you can't deny it!). Either way, she continued to hold my interest.

    I approached the finale of book two therefore, with a great sense of trepidation. I was certain that Azula was heading towards a similar fate to Zhao, and while I knew that I would always remain loyal to Avatar, I had a gut feeling that I simply would never enjoy it the same way. But I was in for a big surprise. As the credits flashed across the screen (I was watching it on DVD) I simply sat on the couch, frozen, with so many different emotions racing through me that I think it was some time before I actually got up. As much as I had wanted Aang to win, I found myself glad that Azula had survived.

    Season three began to air not long afterwards, and before long the first four episodes had come and gone, and "The Beach" was on. And it was in this episode that for the first time we began to get the vague hints that Azula was something more than a cold-blooded villain.

    I think that Azula's chief problem is the fact that in addition to believing that her mother hated her, and thought that she was a monster, she also knew that her mother was right - she was a monster, in many senses of the word. And she believed that she could never be anything else. This soon lead to her belief that if her mother didn't love her, then nobody else could ever love her either. Her solution to the problem was to effectively cut herself off from all such emotions as love, friendship, etc. Ultimately, she came to live in a world of cold logic and ruthlessness, and she believed that everyone else thought the same way as she did. For all her brilliance at reading and manipulating people and their emotions she had no concept of other people's feelings. Her one saving grace was her friendship with Mai and Ty Lee. For all Azula's manipulations and domination of her friends, I feel that there was a friendship there, at some level, perhaps with the part of Azula that had originally been devastated by her mother's rejection. It was in the beach that we saw the this side of Azula for perhaps the only time, when she made a genuine effort to apologize to and comfort Ty Lee. It didn't last long, and it never showed itself again, but it was definitely there.

    It was Azula's insensitivity to other's feelings, as well as her natural assumption that everyone thought the way she did, that lead to her "miscalculation" at the Boiling Rock. Had she been in Mai's position, Azula would have forgotten all about Zuko, and done the "smart thing", AKA "You should have feared me more!". She had no idea that anyone was capable of loving someone else to the extent of dieing for them.

    When Mai, and soon after, Ty Lee, betrayed her, Azula was most likely devastated. Her friends had most likely been the only people other than her mother who she had ever felt close to, or wanted to feel close to. her immediate reaction was to go straight after the person she perceived as having been the cause of her friends betrayal - Zuko, but he evaded her.

    Azula was left alone with the realization that her close friends had betrayed her. And with this came the realization that if she could not control her friends (as she had believed was perfectly natural to do), she couldn't control anyone else either. We got the first hint of her new vulnerability in "The Phoenix King", during her conversation with Ozai. As soon as she heard that Ozai intended to leave her behind, Azula immediately jumped to the conclusion that her father was also turning on her - "You can't treat me like Zuko!". She was soon reassured by his decision to make her firelord, but the damage was done. Azula was left twitchy, jumpy, and constantly analyzing everyone and everything around her for the tiniest little sign that betrayal was coming. Soon, her paranoia had grown to such a level that she ordered everyone to depart believing that the only person she could count on was herself. As it turned out, she could no longer even trust herself, and the final straw was when she found even her hair betraying her.

    Up until this point, Azula had lead a rigidly controlled life, controlled by herself. Everything about her being was carefully maintained in a state of perfection. When she finally realized that she could no longer even control her hair, let alone the people around her, she recognized at some level that she had lost control of her own life. And with the careful, perfect, artificial being that she had fashioned herself into gone, the tiny remaining need for companionship, love, that remained in her came out in the form of Ursa, the person whose apparent rejection had originally decided Azula in what she would make of her life. What Azula never allowed herself to admit before was that her mother may have thought her a monster, but still loved her, still had hope for her. Azula could never allow herself to admit this, because the moment she did so, she admitted that she had been wrong, that she might have taken a different path in life to the one she had taken. It was with this realization that Azula finally gave in and admitted to herself that she had been wrong, that if she had realized earlier that her mother had actually loved her, then she could have lead an incredibly different life to the one she had. The revelation was too much for her, and she attempt to banish it, shattering the mirror. But it was too late. All of her concepts of life had been shattered. All she could think of to do was to go through with what she had originally intended to do, and be crowned firelord.

    But as the coronation was taking place, she had an apparent stroke of luck, in the form of the arrival of Zuko. Here at last for Azula was something she could fight, something she could blame all of her problems on. It had been Zuko who been the center of their mother's love. It had been Zuko who had caused Mai and Ty lee to betray her. It had been Zuko who had exposed her for lying to Ozai, potentially lessening his favor of her. In short, Zuko was someone she could take out all her anger on.

    The type of firebending Azula and Ozai favored was fueled by anger, rage, etc, etc, and Azula had plenty of that to call upon. Zuko's original firebending would have been stronger, but Azula's intensified blue fire was its match, and even though she might be tottering on the brink of utter insanity, Azula's prodigal mental abilities, her cunning and tactical genius, were intact. After a hard fought battle, Azula had defeated her brother once again. At last, it seemed that she had a chance of getting her life back together, having everything she ever dreamed of. But there was one small problem. Some pesky water tribe peasant girl was attempting to get to Zuko, heal him, bring him back to ruin Azula's life again. This could not be allowed. The waterbender was obviously inferior power-wise, so Azula most likely wasn't even thinking as she blindly barged after her, looking for the person who was trying to ruin things just as they seemed to be getting better, so she could burn her alive. The next thing Azula new, she had been frozen in a block of ice, her hands had been chained, and moments later she saw Zuko, alive, and looking like he was going to live, and take everything she had had left. For Azula, it was the end.

    That is my interpretation of what went wrong with Azula. My only authority is as a person who has been fascinated with Azula for about a year and a half, and who continues to be fascinated by her, and what will happen to her now. Something that keeps coming up is; what will happen to Azula now?

    I say that she will heal. Everything about her life has changed, and I think that she has come to some fairly major revelations about that life. I personally think Azula will be the one (in the imaginary future of Avatar) who finds Ursa. What happens to Azula and where Ursa is are the two major gaps at the end of the story, and as such, I believe that they are related somehow. Whether Azula would be capable of the same type of redemption as her brother is very questionable, but it should be remembered that what originally shaped Azula's belief that she was always going to be a "monster", was her belief that her mother thought her so. If Ursa were to reassure Azula that she had hope, that would be a huge step in a possible redemption similar to the one Iroh guided Zuko along, possibly right down to the sickness and nightmares.

    I think that leaving these substantial holes at the end of their story may well be Bryke's final and greatest stroke of genius. Stories that tie up all the loose ends are the ones that lose all interst once they are finished. But the ones that leave dark corners unexplored, wide open futures, these are the stories that inspire fans to stay with them for years, attempting to explore those dark corners, those unspoken futures.

    Although the magnificent tale of the last airbender may be over, his world is not finished yet. But that will have to wait for another day.

    WOW dat was a jawdropper. The description of who Azula is and how she thinks waz AMAZING!!! YOU JUST MADE FALL IN LOVE WITH HER more!!!

    We share something in common and that is how we became fanatics of ATLA. When i seen the character of Azula that made me keep watching the series. She is such a powerful and intense character i wanted to see more of her and her skill but i also wanted to see how she would end up.

    Bambi

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  • Avatar of Hiei1314

    Hiei1314

    [110]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/18/07
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    wilddog2k8 wrote:
    Plus the way Zuko asked Ozai where is mother is and then the next scene he is happy and serving cups of tea, the answer must not have been so bad. We will eventually find out, they would not have wasted time and money making that scene unless they plan on continuing that particular plot.

    Whoa, I never thought of it that way

    And I agree with you on the other part. Even if they don't make another series to explain this (which I doubt), I'm pretty sure someone at the San Diego Comic Con will ask them all these unanswered questions. I mean, we have to find out from them in some way, don't we?

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    shybaby13

    [111]Jul 20, 2008
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    Ursa was just a hullucination, right?

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  • Avatar of kyleinfinity

    kyleinfinity

    [112]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/16/08
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    yea it was kinda funny azula going insane was her downfall.
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  • Avatar of -TheSecondSign-

    -TheSecondSign-

    [113]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/03/07
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    I am not against redemption. Some of my favorite stories are centered almost entirely around anti villians looking for redemption. But I believe there is a very, very fine line that, once crossed, there just is no turning back.

    KOTOR, Avatar, I can name a number of stories where I like where the bad guy becomes a good guy or THE good guy. But there is a line. A fine line.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [114]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    shybaby13 wrote:

    Ursa was just a hullucination, right?

    A hallucination, a vision, Azula's tiny but real conscience made manifest, whatever it was, it was not the real Ursa.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [116]Jul 20, 2008
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    -TheSecondSign- wrote:

    I am not against redemption. Some of my favorite stories are centered almost entirely around anti villians looking for redemption. But I believe there is a very, very fine line that, once crossed, there just is no turning back.

    KOTOR, Avatar, I can name a number of stories where I like where the bad guy becomes a good guy or THE good guy. But there is a line. A fine line.

    You played KOTOR too? I enjoyed that game. You're right, there is a line regarding redemption, and I believe that Azula is on the right side of the line. Ozai is a prime example of someone on the wrong side of the line, someone who is not going to be redeemed, not even a little bit. But I maintain that Azula is not above hope. If you remember, Iroh was once the Dragon of the West, the Fire Nations greatest general. He lead a great campaign against the Earth Kingdom that most likely had a far greater death toll than anything Azula has done. During the flashbacks in "Zuko Alone", he joked openly and lightly about burning Ba Sing Se to the ground, presumably after killing everyone who lived there. And yet Iroh was able to find redemption.

    Edited on 07/20/2008 2:18pm
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  • Avatar of psychicgirl93

    psychicgirl93

    [117]Jul 20, 2008
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    I had something pretty good written down yesterday, but my dad unplugged the modem before I could send it, so this post probably isn'y going to be as good. Still, now I've had more time to think about this.

    It was sad that Azula had to go down that way. It shows how her world was carefully balanced for so long, believing that she could never completely lose, because she had the power of fear behind her. When she lost that, she started to fall apart, getting paranoid and remembering issues with her mother. She's been so used to getting everything her way, and seeing only her way as right. You can only live that way for so long without falling apart.

    This whole aspect was an awesome thing to lead up to the battle between her, Zuko, and Katara. The battle was handled quite well, and it was very epic, and it showed that Azula was finally beaten not only by the "good guys," but also by her way of living (I could probably put that better, but oh well).

    Seeing her like that made me feel sorry for her, but it also seemed like she got what she deserved in some ways. The part that Azula was raised that way is what was sad. Her brother had broken free, but she hadn't.

    The chains seemed like a symbol of how Azula was still chained to the past and her own evil ways, taught to her from when she was young. The music and voice acting really added emotion. The fire coming out of her mouth made it seem like she was reduced to a wild animal.

    One must wonder what will happen to her, but I believe that if we ever do find out for sure, she'll probably still be crazy, but maybe her mother will be helping her. Just a theory probably brought up before (it would be hard to read all of the previous posts). The writers had to leave some kind of mystery for us, right?

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  • Avatar of -TheSecondSign-

    -TheSecondSign-

    [118]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/03/07
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    Axrendale wrote:
    -TheSecondSign- wrote:

    I am not against redemption. Some of my favorite stories are centered almost entirely around anti villians looking for redemption. But I believe there is a very, very fine line that, once crossed, there just is no turning back.

    KOTOR, Avatar, I can name a number of stories where I like where the bad guy becomes a good guy or THE good guy. But there is a line. A fine line.

    You played KOTOR too? I enjoyed that game. You're right, there is a line regarding redemption, and I believe that Azula is on the right side of the line. Ozai is a prime example of someone on the wrong side of the line, someone who is not going to be redeemed, not even a little bit. But I maintain that Azula is not above hope. If you remember, Iroh was once the Dragon of the West, the Fire Nations greatest general. He lead a great campaign against the Earth Kingdom that most likely had a far greater death toll than anything Azula has done. During the flashbacks in "Zuko Alone", he joked openly and lightly about burning Ba Sing Se to the ground, presumably after killing everyone who lived there. And yet Iroh was able to find redemption.

    Yes, I enjoyed KOTOR a lot.

    Revan was crazy awesome, but he only managed to find redemption because he was completely purged of what he was. His memories and power were reduced to shambles before he found the light.

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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [119]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 08/05/06
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    Axrendale wrote:
    -TheSecondSign- wrote:

    I am not against redemption. Some of my favorite stories are centered almost entirely around anti villians looking for redemption. But I believe there is a very, very fine line that, once crossed, there just is no turning back.

    KOTOR, Avatar, I can name a number of stories where I like where the bad guy becomes a good guy or THE good guy. But there is a line. A fine line.

    You played KOTOR too? I enjoyed that game. You're right, there is a line regarding redemption, and I believe that Azula is on the right side of the line. Ozai is a prime example of someone on the wrong side of the line, someone who is not going to be redeemed, not even a little bit. But I maintain that Azula is not above hope. If you remember, Iroh was once the Dragon of the West, the Fire Nations greatest general. He lead a great campaign against the Earth Kingdom that most likely had a far greater death toll than anything Azula has done. During the flashbacks in "Zuko Alone", he joked openly and lightly about burning Ba Sing Se to the ground, presumably after killing everyone who lived there. And yet Iroh was able to find redemption.

    True but there is one difference. Iroh had a son that he loved. When Lu Ten died he was like "This violence just cost me my son. This can't be the right path." Azula, at age what? 8, says "He should burn the city to the ground." (The irony or Iroh-ny there is that he kinda did but for the EK). I guess that makes it 2 differences. Azula doesn't love anyone and her answer is always violence.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [120]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    -TheSecondSign- wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    -TheSecondSign- wrote:

    I am not against redemption. Some of my favorite stories are centered almost entirely around anti villians looking for redemption. But I believe there is a very, very fine line that, once crossed, there just is no turning back.

    KOTOR, Avatar, I can name a number of stories where I like where the bad guy becomes a good guy or THE good guy. But there is a line. A fine line.

    You played KOTOR too? I enjoyed that game. You're right, there is a line regarding redemption, and I believe that Azula is on the right side of the line. Ozai is a prime example of someone on the wrong side of the line, someone who is not going to be redeemed, not even a little bit. But I maintain that Azula is not above hope. If you remember, Iroh was once the Dragon of the West, the Fire Nations greatest general. He lead a great campaign against the Earth Kingdom that most likely had a far greater death toll than anything Azula has done. During the flashbacks in "Zuko Alone", he joked openly and lightly about burning Ba Sing Se to the ground, presumably after killing everyone who lived there. And yet Iroh was able to find redemption.

    Yes, I enjoyed KOTOR a lot.

    Revan was crazy awesome, but he only

    managed to find redemption because he was completely purged of what he was.

    His memories/mind and power were reduced to shambles before he found the light.

    Could a Azula be in a similar situation?

    Edited on 07/20/2008 2:33pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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