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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Azula's breakdown

  • Avatar of wilddog2k8

    wilddog2k8

    [181]Jul 21, 2008
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    freshdth wrote:
    I just want a clear opinion or answer here, dont know if this has been asked, but do any of you believe, because i do, that even if azula was in her normal state that zuko could have taken her, the reason being that even though she had "snapped" her power was still the same yet her thinking and skill had been weakened in her crazed state, but even before the epic fight between them, zuko had proven he could go toe to toe with azula and fight on equal if not better terms, so what do you guys think?


    Of course not! Zuko has NEVER shown that he could battle Azula evenly except AFTER Azula was betrayed by her two best friends. After this happened she started to slip, as you can tell in the episode after the Boiling Rock, the first thing she does is attack Zuko and exclaim "Im about to celebrate becoming an only child." And this type of violent toungue is normal for Azula, but you can tell by the way she is saying it that she is MUCH more angry and desperate for revenge, because she blames Zuko for everything that happened to her. Her mother loved Zuko more, Zuko exposed her lies to her father making her les favorited by him, and Zuko made Mai betray Azula. If Azula had not been betrayed by her friends the outcome of that battle would have been VERY different. For one it would have been Zuko AND Katara fighting her at the same time, and Ty Lee or someone else would have been helping Azula. All in all Zuko may have become more powerful after learning to firebnd from the dragons, but Azula is still more skilled, faster, smarter, and willing to go the extra mile to win, at any cost...
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  • Avatar of Sychtriatric

    Sychtriatric

    [182]Jul 21, 2008
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    DrAvatar wrote:
    Did anyone else feel bad for Azula even though she was pure evil up until then?


    I felt great emotion at that part and even when Zuko met Iroh again.
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  • Avatar of dannysgal

    dannysgal

    [183]Jul 21, 2008
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    LordMordor wrote:

    Now that we have seen Azula's mental breakdown and the deep seated trust and mother issues that plague her, what do you think might be her future? Would rehibilitation be possible, or is she to far gone?

    also, what are your opinions on Azula now after seeing her at her worst. And would you say her defeat at the end is legitimate or should instead be attributed to her mental state?

    I think Azula would have won if it weren't for her (Lack) of sanity. She's to powerful, smart, and cunning. She would have aimed for katara a lot sooner if she wasn't so loopy.

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  • Avatar of Maylene

    Maylene

    [184]Jul 21, 2008
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    Undead_Prince wrote:
    It's kinda funny how out of my two posts on the previous page, the short humorous kinda senseless one got attention, while the long serious one didn't generate any reaction as of yet. One of the questions I addressed there was whether Zuko and Katara's victories over Azula in the finale were legit, and whether they could have still triumphed if Azula kept her senses.


    Hey I paid attention. I thought it was great! Except I disagree with you. I don't think that Zuko could have beaten Azula if she had a clear head because in TBR she had a clear head and she was right on par with Zuko--and that was after Zuko visited the dragons AND before her friends' betrayal. Like others have pointed out, if her skills weren't enough, her wit sure is.

    TimeHeroLink wrote:

    "And when she fell apart in the end, the way he looked at her, to me, didn't show sympathy. I'm not saying it showed malice either; but comparing his expression to Katara's, it's different."

    There was obvious pity in his look for me. But it was different from Katara's, yes, because he knew Azula and how she was and he always knew that this breakdown might happen. The point I made is, now that it has happened and over with, Zuko will most likely try to make attempts to heal her, as Bryke said she has a chance for healing.

    Look, I think it's obvious that Azula's a tragic villain and we're supposed to pity her in the end and continue hating her, ala Vader and Gollum, but that still doesn't make her a...well, Draco in Leather Pants.

    What makes you think he was expecting this from her though?
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  • Avatar of Ghostgal7

    Ghostgal7

    [185]Jul 21, 2008
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    LordMordor wrote:
    I would really like to see Azula some how come to terms with her issues, but as for a full rehibilitation from sociopath to reletively normal...I don't see it happening. Zuko had issues, but he was never so much of a homocidal maniac as Azula proved to be in the end. If they do decide to continue, I think Azula might stay as a a villian, albiet a more sympathetic one. And I personally really can't give anyone a full win for that fight. Zuko said himself that something was clearly off about Azula, all her fights up until the last had shown her to be compeltly in control of herself, which was clearly not the case here. And their match in SR was to short to call, even back in the Chase Zuko held up for a short while against Azula, the question would be whether he could keep it up for a prolonged battle. and am i the only one irked by how Katara can seem to find large amounts of water whenever she needs it?
    Yes -_- That is a handy little trick Katara has. An annoying one, but a handy one. Does anyone else think it would be funny to see her in a padded Fire Nation insane asylum wearing a fireproof straightjacket...wait, I don't think they had insane asylums back then...
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [186]Jul 21, 2008
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    Ghostgal7 wrote:
    LordMordor wrote:
    I would really like to see Azula some how come to terms with her issues, but as for a full rehibilitation from sociopath to reletively normal...I don't see it happening. Zuko had issues, but he was never so much of a homocidal maniac as Azula proved to be in the end. If they do decide to continue, I think Azula might stay as a a villian, albiet a more sympathetic one. And I personally really can't give anyone a full win for that fight. Zuko said himself that something was clearly off about Azula, all her fights up until the last had shown her to be compeltly in control of herself, which was clearly not the case here. And their match in SR was to short to call, even back in the Chase Zuko held up for a short while against Azula, the question would be whether he could keep it up for a prolonged battle. and am i the only one irked by how Katara can seem to find large amounts of water whenever she needs it?
    Yes -_- That is a handy little trick Katara has. An annoying one, but a handy one. Does anyone else think it would be funny to see her in a padded Fire Nation insane asylum wearing a fireproof straightjacket...wait, I don't think they had insane asylums back then...
    they had to. Where else would Zhao's parents have met?
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  • Avatar of funnyman1278

    funnyman1278

    [187]Jul 21, 2008
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    Heres something I dont really get......

    So by shooting an Avatar in the back with lightning kills him, but when you shoot Zuko with lightning near his chest NEAR THE HEART he doesnt die..... Whats up with that?! Unless her craziness **** up her lightning or whatever.

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  • Avatar of wilddog2k8

    wilddog2k8

    [188]Jul 21, 2008
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    funnyman1278 wrote:

    Heres something I dont really get......

    So by shooting an Avatar in the back with lightning kills him, but when you shoot Zuko with lightning near his chest NEAR THE HEART he doesnt die..... Whats up with that?! Unless her craziness **** up her lightning or whatever.



    Aang was shot in the back. It was a clear shot without any type of defense done, and the lightning exited through his foot for all who didnt notice. Zuko was redirecting the lighting and to me it looked like he took in the lightning but had trouble releasing it. So it wasn't about him getting "hit" by the lighting, but more about him nto being able to release it intentionally so it got stuck in his stomach, like Iroh said it would if he messed up the sequence. Thats why it didnt kill him it just left a scar. Had he just stepped in front he would have been done for, but if u look closely he sticks his fingers out as if he is trying to redirect it, but then it overwhemled him. And the lightning had to go somewhere so after he took it into his gut it shot back out into the sky. Lightning always has to go somewhere, thats why Aang had a scar on his foot, because the lightning that hit him in the bck exited out the bottom of his foot.
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  • Avatar of funnyman1278

    funnyman1278

    [189]Jul 21, 2008
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    wilddog2k8 wrote:
    funnyman1278 wrote:

    Heres something I dont really get......

    So by shooting an Avatar in the back with lightning kills him, but when you shoot Zuko with lightning near his chest NEAR THE HEART he doesnt die..... Whats up with that?! Unless her craziness **** up her lightning or whatever.

    Aang was shot in the back. It was a clear shot without any type of defense done, and the lightning exited through his foot for all who didnt notice. Zuko was redirecting the lighting and to me it looked like he took in the lightning but had trouble releasing it. So it wasn't about him getting "hit" by the lighting, but more about him nto being able to release it intentionally so it got stuck in his stomach, like Iroh said it would if he messed up the sequence. Thats why it didnt kill him it just left a scar. Had he just stepped in front he would have been done for, but if u look closely he sticks his fingers out as if he is trying to redirect it, but then it overwhemled him. And the lightning had to go somewhere so after he took it into his gut it shot back out into the sky. Lightning always has to go somewhere, thats why Aang had a scar on his foot, because the lightning that hit him in the bck exited out the bottom of his foot.

    Huh, I didnt really see him redirect it (it was so bright =0) but I assumed that since it hit his chest it would have immediately stopped his heart.

    Edited on 07/21/2008 7:41pm
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  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [190]Jul 21, 2008
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    funnyman1278 wrote:
    wilddog2k8 wrote:
    funnyman1278 wrote:

    Heres something I dont really get......

    So by shooting an Avatar in the back with lightning kills him, but when you shoot Zuko with lightning near his chest NEAR THE HEART he doesnt die..... Whats up with that?! Unless her craziness **** up her lightning or whatever.

    Aang was shot in the back. It was a clear shot without any type of defense done, and the lightning exited through his foot for all who didnt notice. Zuko was redirecting the lighting and to me it looked like he took in the lightning but had trouble releasing it. So it wasn't about him getting "hit" by the lighting, but more about him nto being able to release it intentionally so it got stuck in his stomach, like Iroh said it would if he messed up the sequence. Thats why it didnt kill him it just left a scar. Had he just stepped in front he would have been done for, but if u look closely he sticks his fingers out as if he is trying to redirect it, but then it overwhemled him. And the lightning had to go somewhere so after he took it into his gut it shot back out into the sky. Lightning always has to go somewhere, thats why Aang had a scar on his foot, because the lightning that hit him in the bck exited out the bottom of his foot.

    Huh, I didnt really see him redirect it (it was so bright =0) but I assumed that since it hit his chest it would have immediately stopped his heart.

    It's not in his chest, it's in his tummy. (Sorry, I talk like a 3-year-old when it gets into the double-didget pm times)
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  • Avatar of Maylene

    Maylene

    [191]Jul 21, 2008
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    wilddog2k8 wrote:
    funnyman1278 wrote:

    Heres something I dont really get......

    So by shooting an Avatar in the back with lightning kills him, but when you shoot Zuko with lightning near his chest NEAR THE HEART he doesnt die..... Whats up with that?! Unless her craziness **** up her lightning or whatever.



    Aang was shot in the back. It was a clear shot without any type of defense done, and the lightning exited through his foot for all who didnt notice. Zuko was redirecting the lighting and to me it looked like he took in the lightning but had trouble releasing it. So it wasn't about him getting "hit" by the lighting, but more about him nto being able to release it intentionally so it got stuck in his stomach, like Iroh said it would if he messed up the sequence. Thats why it didnt kill him it just left a scar. Had he just stepped in front he would have been done for, but if u look closely he sticks his fingers out as if he is trying to redirect it, but then it overwhemled him. And the lightning had to go somewhere so after he took it into his gut it shot back out into the sky. Lightning always has to go somewhere, thats why Aang had a scar on his foot, because the lightning that hit him in the bck exited out the bottom of his foot.


    Very true. I watched the seen in slow motion (not intentionally) and saw that.
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  • Avatar of slumshoes

    slumshoes

    [192]Jul 21, 2008
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    dannysgal wrote:
    LordMordor wrote:

    Now that we have seen Azula's mental breakdown and the deep seated trust and mother issues that plague her, what do you think might be her future? Would rehibilitation be possible, or is she to far gone?

    also, what are your opinions on Azula now after seeing her at her worst. And would you say her defeat at the end is legitimate or should instead be attributed to her mental state?

    I think Azula would have won if it weren't for her (Lack) of sanity. She's to powerful, smart, and cunning. She would have aimed for katara a lot sooner if she wasn't so loopy.



    Zuko's firebending has improved as the series progreseed, so I believe he could defeat Azula even in her normal state. Ever since I saw her in "The Storm", I became an Azula fan and since the finale didn't show what happened to her, I really wish Zuko would just banish her and let her experience first hand what Zuko did in Season 2. And probably she'll join the bounty hunter Jun and start a gang of her own. Now that's a good spin-off I want to See!
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  • Avatar of wilddog2k8

    wilddog2k8

    [193]Jul 21, 2008
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    slumshoes wrote:
    dannysgal wrote:
    LordMordor wrote:

    Now that we have seen Azula's mental breakdown and the deep seated trust and mother issues that plague her, what do you think might be her future? Would rehibilitation be possible, or is she to far gone?

    also, what are your opinions on Azula now after seeing her at her worst. And would you say her defeat at the end is legitimate or should instead be attributed to her mental state?

    I think Azula would have won if it weren't for her (Lack) of sanity. She's to powerful, smart, and cunning. She would have aimed for katara a lot sooner if she wasn't so loopy.



    Zuko's firebending has improved as the series progreseed, so I believe he could defeat Azula even in her normal state. Ever since I saw her in "The Storm", I became an Azula fan and since the finale didn't show what happened to her, I really wish Zuko would just banish her and let her experience first hand what Zuko did in Season 2. And probably she'll join the bounty hunter Jun and start a gang of her own. Now that's a good spin-off I want to See!


    Zuko could never beat Azula, atleast not right now. Azula is waay more powerful then Zuko. The only people that can beat Azula is Iroh, Ozai, and that other firebender guy that lives in the woods..and thats a long stretch. People seem to forget that Zuko firebending was BOOSTED by the comet. Azula's was as well but the fact that she was going crazy pretty much cancelled most of the comets effects out. It's been made clear that Azula is more powerful then Zuko several times...even when she is going crazy she could still hold her own. She was clearly over reacting and not thinking straight in the finale battle with Zuko, that's why she gave up so quickly and took a cheap shot at katara. Had she been thinking normally, she would have used her agility plus the added comet power to completely destroy Zuko. Are you forgetting that the ONLY reason Zuko agreed to fight her alone was because he could tell that she was not herself. Had she been her normal self he would have NEVER agreed to that!!! Zuko knows his limits, that's why he knew he could take Azula in her weakened, irrational state...
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  • Avatar of beka777angel

    beka777angel

    [194]Jul 21, 2008
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    WARNING! Slightly long rant ahead.

    1. Zuko was obviously beaten, if it wasn't for Katara he would be dead. FALSE!

    Zuko would have definitely beaten Azula if Katara wasn't there. If Katara stayed out of the way, Azula would have fired lightning at Zuko and Zuko would have redirected it and killed her. But because Katara was there, Azula played up Zuko's hero instincts and tricked him into taking the lightning. Actually, It would actually have been better if Katara wasn't there.

    2. If Azula was sane, she would have won. FALSE!

    They are equal opponents now that Zuko became a master from the dragons. Besides, didn't you see Zuko, he was hardly out of breath, hardly tired when Azula got hit and fell. He obviously could have been able to survive if the battle prolonged. But Azula was panting. She would have tired out if the battle went on. Also, her insanity did not cancel out the comets powers. Hello! did you see all that rage surging through her, she was very powerful BECAUSE of the comet and her anger didn't make her bending less powerful, it only made it stronger(considering rage and anger is one of the ways to be successful at firebending). Sure, if she was sane, she would have used trickery better, but when considering all the factors, they are both equal. But from the beginning, if Katara helped Zuko, Azula would have been done within five minutes after the little battle started.

    3. If Azula became a master from the dragons, she would have owned. False.

    One, the dragons wouldn't have even deemed her worthy for that power. Two, if by the small chance the dragons did, she wouldn't have understood the right way to bend. She had to much hate in her heart, which she depended on wholly on to firebend.

    4. Is anyone else annoyed by the fact that Katara can find water coincidentally whenever she needs it?

    Really, that annoys some people. I find it annoying that Waterbenders need to find a supply of water to waterbend while firebenders can make it themselves, they don't need to find any, they can just attack. THAT urks me.

    5. The least Zuko could have done was showed some sympathy to Azula and given her a hug of compassion.

    Oh yes. That would have been so sensible. She is spewing out fire, after attacking him. How insensitive of Zuko. How could he do that, refusing to give a hug to the one who tried killing him(and almost succeeded) him AND Katara. UGH! I mean come on! Azula would have definitely accepted that hug willingly, her being in that insane unstable state. (ish sarcasm if you didnt catch it already)

    6. Shouldn't Zuko have been killed from the lightning?

    No. He wasn't hit by the lightning straight to the heart. He was redirecting it (You could tell he redirected it when a HUGE bolt of lightning came from the courtyard they were in, um...duh...) The lightning didn't go correctly through his stomach. Uncle iroh said, it COULD be deadly if it passed throught the heart. COULD. But since Katara was there, it wasn't.

    Edited on 07/21/2008 8:35pm
    Edited 4 total times.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [195]Jul 21, 2008
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    What I don 't get is all this talk about "legit" defeats, and who's more powerful than who. In Avatar, people do not win fights because they are more powerful than them, they win because they are smarter than them. If you watch over the series, for most of the fights, it is actually extremely rare that any of the fights will end with one of the fighters directly overpowering the other. Far more common is it for the fights to end with trickery of some kind, from one side or the other. If power was all that mattered, Combustion man would have taken out the Gaang in WAT and finished everything then and there. Instead, he was taken out by Sokka, who nobody that isn't on cactus juice is ever going to claim was more powerful. That's the best thing about the ATLA fights, the victors are the ones (mostly) who figure out the best way to out manoeuvre their enemy. Their is no such thing as a "legitimate" or an "illegitimate" victory, there is just winning and losing.

    So Azula's victory over Zuko was legit. Who would have won in different circumstances is irrelevant; it was Azula who determined her opponent's weakness (Zuko's new-found compassion and friendship with Katara), and she was able to exploit that weakness and send him out for the count. Likewise, Katara's victory was also legitimate; despite the fact that Azula was obviously massively more powerful than her, she cleverly set up a trap, and Azula waltzed right into it.

    So I say it again; it is useless to speculate on what would have happened under different circumstances. Personally, my money would still be on Azula to win under different circustances (especially if she was still sane) because of all the characters, she is the one who has shown a history of defeating her opponents through cunning, one way or another.

    Edited on 07/21/2008 8:53pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of wilddog2k8

    wilddog2k8

    [196]Jul 21, 2008
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    beka777angel wrote:

    WARNING! Slightly long rant ahead.

    Zuko was obviously beaten, if it wasn't for Katara he would be dead. FALSE!

    Zuko would have definitely beaten Azula if Katara wasn't there. If Katara stayed out of the way, Azula would have fired at Zuko and Zuko would have redirected it and killed her. But because Katara was there, she played up Zuko's hero instincts and tricked him into taking the lightning. It would actually have been better if Katara wasn't there.

    If Azula was sane, she would have won. FALSE!

    They are equal opponents now that Zuko became a master from the dragons. Besides, didn't you see Zuko, he was hardly out of breath, hardly tired when Azula got hit and fell. He obviously could have been able to survive if the battle prolonged. But Azula was panting. She would have tired out if the battle went on. Sure, if she was sane, she would have used trickery better, but when considering all the factors, they are both equal. But from the beginning, if Katara helped Zuko, Azula would have been done within five minutes after the little battle started.

    If Azula became a master from the dragons, she would have owned. False.

    One, the dragons wouldn't have even deemed her worthy for that power. Second, if by the small chance the dragons did, she wouldn't have understood the right way to bend. She had to much hate in her heart, which she depended on wholly on to firebend.

    Is anyone else annoyed by the fact that Katara can get water whenever she wants?

    Really, that annoys some people. I find it annoying that Waterbenders need to find a supply of water to waterbend while firebenders can make it themselves, they don't need to find any, they can just use their powers and attack. That urks me.

    The least Zuko could have done was showed some sympathy to Azula and given her a hug of compassion.

    Oh yes. That would have been so sensible. She is spewing out fire, after attacking him. How insensitive of Zuko. How could he do that, refusing to give a hug to the one who tried killing him(and almost succeeded) him AND Katara. UGH! I mean come on! Azula would have definitely accepted that hug willingly, her being in that insane unstable state. (ish sarcasm if you didnt catch it already)

    Shouldn't Zuko have been killed from the lightning? No. He wasn't hit by the lightning straight to the heart. He was redirecting it (You could tell he redirected it when a HUGE bolt of lightning came from the courtyard they were in, um...duh...) The lightning didn't go correctly through his stomach. Uncle iroh said, it COULD be deadly if it passed throught the heart. COULD. But since Katara was there, it wasn't.

    First of all...Zuko is NOT a master of firebending. Iroh is a master...Ozai is a master...the firebender that lives in the woods is a master. Zuko is NOT a master of firebending, he is still learning. The only reason Azula was out of breath was because she was not thinking correctly. Had she been sane then she would not have been using so much energy. Plus, I already said this before but obviously I need to say it again, Zukos firbdening was ENHANCED by the comet! So was azulas, but Azula was going insane so the enhanced strength didnt help her much. It's pretty obvious that had she been in her right mind Zuko would hav been done for. Azula would not have been killed by zukos redirected lightning, for one Zuko couldn't even kill Ozai when he redirected his lightning. Two, Azula already knew he could redirect it so I doubt she would have just stood there amazed at the fact that he could. Ozai was blind sided by this when Aang did it because he didnt know he could redirect it, but Zuko's retarded self told Azula that he could redirect it, so it made her relunctant to shoot it at him. Plus, Azula would have never agreed to fight a battle that she knows she can't win, so she would have never fought Zuko and Katara at the same time. That's just common sense...

    Here's my elaboration:

    Had Azula been sane, that would mean that she was never betrayed by her friends, which means that Ty Lee would still be on her side. Mai would never agree to fight Zuko, but maybe Katara. Azula vs. Zuko and Ty Lee vs. Katara...that's how I think it would have played out. And with the added strength of the comet, Azula would have completely destroyed Zuko. I don't understand why people are saying he is a "master." he is nothing compared to Iroh and Ozai, who are TRUE MASTERS of firebending, especially Iroh. I agree Zuko has gotten more powerful since the dragon training, but strength is not everything when fighting Azula, which she has proven countless times. When she didn't even have ANY bending at all, she some how managed to out run and manipulate Aang, Toph, and Sokka. She would have no doubt tried this on Zuko as well had she been thinking straight.

    The facts have been laid out countless times. Azula is probabaly the 4th most powerful firebender behind the masters I previously mentioned. She is a prodigy, and she gains skill faster then other firebenders, that's what a prodigy is, someone that is naturally skilled at something. I believe that had she been thinking straight, the outcome would have been VERY different...but she had to in order to complete her character story. We can speculate on this for the rest of our lives, but I stand by what I juss wasted my time typing because I doubt half the people here will read it. Plus Zuko is older then her, so naturally he would be stronger, but obviously this doesn't help him much because Azula is a prodigy. Azula is OVERALL more powerful then Zuko. When your looking for a quaterback you dont look for someone that can throw the ball far...you look for someone that can do that, has good vision, doesn't get injured easily, can think under pressure, and kills dogs in their spare time, That is pretty much Azulas description to the max!!!

    Edited on 07/21/2008 8:55pm
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  • Avatar of K0rRupTi0n

    K0rRupTi0n

    [197]Jul 21, 2008
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    Iroh was right "shes crazy and needs to go down" thank heavens for zuko and katara although i did think her going totally insain was an absoloute riot
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [198]Jul 21, 2008
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    wilddog2k8 wrote:
    beka777angel wrote:

    WARNING! Slightly long rant ahead.

    Zuko was obviously beaten, if it wasn't for Katara he would be dead. FALSE!

    Zuko would have definitely beaten Azula if Katara wasn't there. If Katara stayed out of the way, Azula would have fired at Zuko and Zuko would have redirected it and killed her. But because Katara was there, she played up Zuko's hero instincts and tricked him into taking the lightning. It would actually have been better if Katara wasn't there.

    If Azula was sane, she would have won. FALSE!

    They are equal opponents now that Zuko became a master from the dragons. Besides, didn't you see Zuko, he was hardly out of breath, hardly tired when Azula got hit and fell. He obviously could have been able to survive if the battle prolonged. But Azula was panting. She would have tired out if the battle went on. Sure, if she was sane, she would have used trickery better, but when considering all the factors, they are both equal. But from the beginning, if Katara helped Zuko, Azula would have been done within five minutes after the little battle started.

    If Azula became a master from the dragons, she would have owned. False.

    One, the dragons wouldn't have even deemed her worthy for that power. Second, if by the small chance the dragons did, she wouldn't have understood the right way to bend. She had to much hate in her heart, which she depended on wholly on to firebend.

    Is anyone else annoyed by the fact that Katara can get water whenever she wants?

    Really, that annoys some people. I find it annoying that Waterbenders need to find a supply of water to waterbend while firebenders can make it themselves, they don't need to find any, they can just use their powers and attack. That urks me.

    Shouldn't Zuko have been killed from the lightning? No. He wasn't hit by the lightning straight to the heart. He was redirecting it (You could tell he redirected it when a HUGE bolt of lightning came from the courtyard they were in, um...duh...) The lightning didn't go correctly through his stomach. Uncle iroh said, it COULD be deadly if it passed throught the heart. COULD. But since Katara was there, it wasn't.

    First of all...Zuko is NOT a master of firebending. Iroh is a master...Ozai is a master...the firebender that lives in the woods is a master. Zuko is NOT a master of firebending, he is still learning. The only reason Azula was out of breath was because she was not thinking correctly. Had she been sane then she would not have been using so much energy. Plus, I already said this before but obviously I need to say it again, Zukos firbdening was ENHANCED by the comet! So was azulas, but Azula was going insane so the enhanced strength didnt help her much. It's pretty obvious that had she been in her right mind Zuko would hav been done for. Azula would not have been killed by zukos redirected lightning, for one Zuko couldn't even kill Ozai when he redirected his lightning. Two, Azula already knew he could redirect it so I doubt she would have just stood there amazed at the fact that he could. Ozai was blind sided by this when Aang did it because he didnt know he could redirect it, but Zuko's retarded self told Azula that he could redirect it, so it made her relunctant to shoot it at him. Plus, Azula would have never agreed to fight a battle that she knows she can't win, so she would have never fought Zuko and Katara at the same time. That's just common sense...

    Here's my elaboration:

    Had Azula been sane, that would mean that she was never betrayed by her friends, which means that Ty Lee would still be on her side. Mai would never agree to fight Zuko, but maybe Katara. Azula vs. Zuko and Ty Lee vs. Katara...that's how I think it would have played out. And with the added strength of the comet, Azula would have completely destroyed Zuko. I don't understand why people are saying he is a "master." he is nothing compared to Iroh and Ozai, who are TRUE MASTERS of firebending, especially Iroh. I agree Zuko has gotten more powerful since the dragon training, but strength is not everything when fighting Azula, which she has proven countless times. When she didn't even have ANY bending at all, she some how managed to out run and manipulate Aang, Toph, and Sokka. She would have no doubt tried this on Zuko as well had she been thinking straight.

    The facts have been laid out countless times. Azula is probabaly the 4th most powerful firebender behind the masters I previously mentioned. She is a prodigy, and she gains skill faster then other firebenders, that's what a prodigy is, someone that is naturally skilled at something. I believe that had she been thinking straight, the outcome would have been VERY different...but she had to in order to complete her character story. We can speculate on this for the rest of our lives, but I stand by what I juss wasted my time typing because I doubt half the people here will read it. Plus Zuko is older then her, so naturally he would be stronger, but obviously this doesn't help him much because Azula is a prodigy. Azula is OVERALL more powerful then Zuko. When your looking for a quaterback you dont look for someone that can throw the ball far...you look for someone that can do that, has good vision, doesn't get injured easily, can think under pressure, and doesn't kill dogs in their spare time, That is pretty much Azulas description to the max!!!

    I agree and disagree with the various points above. I'll begin by saying that both Zuko and Azula are firebending masters - powerwise, they are stronger even than Jeong Jeong, the only people who could beat them are Ozai and iroh (and now Aang).

    Whether Azula would have beaten Zuko if Katara had not been there is no easy question to answer, but I think that she could have. Her trickery showed that even though she was insane, she was still capable of thinking tactically, measuring her opponents and what they could do. If Katara had been elsewhere, Azula could still have done something smart like shooting the lightning into the ground directly at Zuko's feet - knocking him off balance and giving her an advantage. I am not saying that Zuko never had a chance, in fact he had an extremely good chance of winning the fight. But he allowed Azula to outsmart him, and that was what lost him the fight.

    Would Azula have won if she was Sane? She won when she was flipping bananas! Of course she would have crushed Zuko if she was still sane in the extact same circumstances.

    As we have seen in the Boiling Rock, the Southern Raiders, and now the finale, Azula's blue firebending and Zuko's original firebending are equally powerful. Blue flames such as the ones Azula generates are more powerful than regular flames, and equally powerful to regular flames produced with original firebending. the only thing that trumps both is the mastered intense flames that Ozai was making in quantities even greater than Iroh (safely establishing him as the ultimate master of firebending).

    The comet gave Zuko and Azula the same amount of boost (the power of 100 suns, to be precise), for the same amount of time. If the comet hadn't been there, the fight would have had the same result, but would have been slightly less epic. On the subject of the comet, the extra power that it gave to Zuko may have been what allowed him to survive Azula's lightning.

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  • Avatar of wilddog2k8

    wilddog2k8

    [199]Jul 21, 2008
    • member since: 05/02/03
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 124
    Axrendale wrote:
    wilddog2k8 wrote:
    beka777angel wrote:

    WARNING! Slightly long rant ahead.

    Zuko was obviously beaten, if it wasn't for Katara he would be dead. FALSE!

    Zuko would have definitely beaten Azula if Katara wasn't there. If Katara stayed out of the way, Azula would have fired at Zuko and Zuko would have redirected it and killed her. But because Katara was there, she played up Zuko's hero instincts and tricked him into taking the lightning. It would actually have been better if Katara wasn't there.

    If Azula was sane, she would have won. FALSE!

    They are equal opponents now that Zuko became a master from the dragons. Besides, didn't you see Zuko, he was hardly out of breath, hardly tired when Azula got hit and fell. He obviously could have been able to survive if the battle prolonged. But Azula was panting. She would have tired out if the battle went on. Sure, if she was sane, she would have used trickery better, but when considering all the factors, they are both equal. But from the beginning, if Katara helped Zuko, Azula would have been done within five minutes after the little battle started.

    If Azula became a master from the dragons, she would have owned. False.

    One, the dragons wouldn't have even deemed her worthy for that power. Second, if by the small chance the dragons did, she wouldn't have understood the right way to bend. She had to much hate in her heart, which she depended on wholly on to firebend.

    Is anyone else annoyed by the fact that Katara can get water whenever she wants?

    Really, that annoys some people. I find it annoying that Waterbenders need to find a supply of water to waterbend while firebenders can make it themselves, they don't need to find any, they can just use their powers and attack. That urks me.

    Shouldn't Zuko have been killed from the lightning? No. He wasn't hit by the lightning straight to the heart. He was redirecting it (You could tell he redirected it when a HUGE bolt of lightning came from the courtyard they were in, um...duh...) The lightning didn't go correctly through his stomach. Uncle iroh said, it COULD be deadly if it passed throught the heart. COULD. But since Katara was there, it wasn't.

    First of all...Zuko is NOT a master of firebending. Iroh is a master...Ozai is a master...the firebender that lives in the woods is a master. Zuko is NOT a master of firebending, he is still learning. The only reason Azula was out of breath was because she was not thinking correctly. Had she been sane then she would not have been using so much energy. Plus, I already said this before but obviously I need to say it again, Zukos firbdening was ENHANCED by the comet! So was azulas, but Azula was going insane so the enhanced strength didnt help her much. It's pretty obvious that had she been in her right mind Zuko would hav been done for. Azula would not have been killed by zukos redirected lightning, for one Zuko couldn't even kill Ozai when he redirected his lightning. Two, Azula already knew he could redirect it so I doubt she would have just stood there amazed at the fact that he could. Ozai was blind sided by this when Aang did it because he didnt know he could redirect it, but Zuko's retarded self told Azula that he could redirect it, so it made her relunctant to shoot it at him. Plus, Azula would have never agreed to fight a battle that she knows she can't win, so she would have never fought Zuko and Katara at the same time. That's just common sense...

    Here's my elaboration:

    Had Azula been sane, that would mean that she was never betrayed by her friends, which means that Ty Lee would still be on her side. Mai would never agree to fight Zuko, but maybe Katara. Azula vs. Zuko and Ty Lee vs. Katara...that's how I think it would have played out. And with the added strength of the comet, Azula would have completely destroyed Zuko. I don't understand why people are saying he is a "master." he is nothing compared to Iroh and Ozai, who are TRUE MASTERS of firebending, especially Iroh. I agree Zuko has gotten more powerful since the dragon training, but strength is not everything when fighting Azula, which she has proven countless times. When she didn't even have ANY bending at all, she some how managed to out run and manipulate Aang, Toph, and Sokka. She would have no doubt tried this on Zuko as well had she been thinking straight.

    The facts have been laid out countless times. Azula is probabaly the 4th most powerful firebender behind the masters I previously mentioned. She is a prodigy, and she gains skill faster then other firebenders, that's what a prodigy is, someone that is naturally skilled at something. I believe that had she been thinking straight, the outcome would have been VERY different...but she had to in order to complete her character story. We can speculate on this for the rest of our lives, but I stand by what I juss wasted my time typing because I doubt half the people here will read it. Plus Zuko is older then her, so naturally he would be stronger, but obviously this doesn't help him much because Azula is a prodigy. Azula is OVERALL more powerful then Zuko. When your looking for a quaterback you dont look for someone that can throw the ball far...you look for someone that can do that, has good vision, doesn't get injured easily, can think under pressure, and doesn't kill dogs in their spare time, That is pretty much Azulas description to the max!!!

    I agree and disagree with the various points above. I'll begin by saying that both Zuko and Azula are firebending masters - powerwise, they are stronger even than Jeong Jeong, the only people who could beat them are Ozai and iroh (and now Aang).

    Whether Azula would have beaten Zuko if Katara had not been there is no easy question to answer, but I think that she could have. Her trickery showed that even though she was insane, she was still capable of thinking tactically, measuring her opponents and what they could do. If Katara had been elsewhere, Azula could still have done something smart like shooting the lightning into the ground directly at Zuko's feet - knocking him off balance and giving her an advantage. I am not saying that Zuko never had a chance, in fact he had an extremely good chance of winning the fight. But he allowed Azula to outsmart him, and that was what lost him the fight.

    Would Azula have won if she was Sane? She won when she was flipping bananas! Of course she would have crushed Zuko if she was still sane in the extact same circumstances.

    As we have seen in the Boiling Rock, the Southern Raiders, and now the finale, Azula's blue firebending and Zuko's original firebending are equally powerful. Blue flames such as the ones Azula generates are more powerful than regular flames, and equally powerful to regular flames produced with original firebending. the only thing that trumps both is the mastered intense flames that Ozai was making in quantities even greater than Iroh (safely establishing him as the ultimate master of firebending).

    The comet gave Zuko and Azula the same amount of boost (the power of 100 suns, to be precise), for the same amount of time. If the comet hadn't been there, the fight would have had the same result, but would have been slightly less epic. On the subject of the comet, the extra power that it gave to Zuko may have been what allowed him to survive Azula's lightning.

    JEONG JEONG!!! Thats his name..I forgot what it was. Yeah jeong jeong really isn't a master, but he is still pretty poweful and skillful. I think Iroh is more powerful than Ozai because he has trained with the dragons. Ozai might have more brute strength and considering the fact that Iroh is older, he might be stronger, but I think Iroh's firebending might be a little more powerful thanks to the dragon training. I agree with most of what you said, but in the Boiling rock Azula was fighting both Sokka AND Zuko at the same time. So maybe the distraction of Sokka was throwing her bending off, and ever since that episode she has been slowly slipping away because of Mai and ty Lee's betrayal. I still think that the comet gave Zuko and advantage, because he was able to fully use it to his ability, but because Azula was going crazy she wasn't able to fully express her power. Didn't anyone notice how quickly Ozai was shooting his lightning?!?! When he did it before he had to powe it up and do all those funky motions to do it, but with the comet he just did it with barely any power up, but Azula still did all those wierd motions, so I don't think she was fully using her new found strength.

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  • Avatar of beka777angel

    beka777angel

    [200]Jul 21, 2008
    • member since: 07/22/08
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 35
    wilddog2k8 wrote:
    beka777angel wrote:

    WARNING! Slightly long rant ahead.

    Zuko was obviously beaten, if it wasn't for Katara he would be dead. FALSE!

    Zuko would have definitely beaten Azula if Katara wasn't there. If Katara stayed out of the way, Azula would have fired at Zuko and Zuko would have redirected it and killed her. But because Katara was there, she played up Zuko's hero instincts and tricked him into taking the lightning. It would actually have been better if Katara wasn't there.

    If Azula was sane, she would have won. FALSE!

    They are equal opponents now that Zuko became a master from the dragons. Besides, didn't you see Zuko, he was hardly out of breath, hardly tired when Azula got hit and fell. He obviously could have been able to survive if the battle prolonged. But Azula was panting. She would have tired out if the battle went on. Sure, if she was sane, she would have used trickery better, but when considering all the factors, they are both equal. But from the beginning, if Katara helped Zuko, Azula would have been done within five minutes after the little battle started.

    If Azula became a master from the dragons, she would have owned. False.

    One, the dragons wouldn't have even deemed her worthy for that power. Second, if by the small chance the dragons did, she wouldn't have understood the right way to bend. She had to much hate in her heart, which she depended on wholly on to firebend.

    Is anyone else annoyed by the fact that Katara can get water whenever she wants?

    Really, that annoys some people. I find it annoying that Waterbenders need to find a supply of water to waterbend while firebenders can make it themselves, they don't need to find any, they can just use their powers and attack. That urks me.

    The least Zuko could have done was showed some sympathy to Azula and given her a hug of compassion.

    Oh yes. That would have been so sensible. She is spewing out fire, after attacking him. How insensitive of Zuko. How could he do that, refusing to give a hug to the one who tried killing him(and almost succeeded) him AND Katara. UGH! I mean come on! Azula would have definitely accepted that hug willingly, her being in that insane unstable state. (ish sarcasm if you didnt catch it already)

    Shouldn't Zuko have been killed from the lightning? No. He wasn't hit by the lightning straight to the heart. He was redirecting it (You could tell he redirected it when a HUGE bolt of lightning came from the courtyard they were in, um...duh...) The lightning didn't go correctly through his stomach. Uncle iroh said, it COULD be deadly if it passed throught the heart. COULD. But since Katara was there, it wasn't.

    First of all...Zuko is NOT a master of firebending. Iroh is a master...Ozai is a master...the firebender that lives in the woods is a master. Zuko is NOT a master of firebending, he is still learning. The only reason Azula was out of breath was because she was not thinking correctly. Had she been sane then she would not have been using so much energy. Plus, I already said this before but obviously I need to say it again, Zukos firbdening was ENHANCED by the comet! So was azulas, but Azula was going insane so the enhanced strength didnt help her much. It's pretty obvious that had she been in her right mind Zuko would hav been done for. Azula would not have been killed by zukos redirected lightning, for one Zuko couldn't even kill Ozai when he redirected his lightning. Two, Azula already knew he could redirect it so I doubt she would have just stood there amazed at the fact that he could. Ozai was blind sided by this when Aang did it because he didnt know he could redirect it, but Zuko's retarded self told Azula that he could redirect it, so it made her relunctant to shoot it at him. Plus, Azula would have never agreed to fight a battle that she knows she can't win, so she would have never fought Zuko and Katara at the same time. That's just common sense...

    Here's my elaboration:

    Had Azula been sane, that would mean that she was never betrayed by her friends, which means that Ty Lee would still be on her side. Mai would never agree to fight Zuko, but maybe Katara. Azula vs. Zuko and Ty Lee vs. Katara...that's how I think it would have played out. And with the added strength of the comet, Azula would have completely destroyed Zuko. I don't understand why people are saying he is a "master." he is nothing compared to Iroh and Ozai, who are TRUE MASTERS of firebending, especially Iroh. I agree Zuko has gotten more powerful since the dragon training, but strength is not everything when fighting Azula, which she has proven countless times. When she didn't even have ANY bending at all, she some how managed to out run and manipulate Aang, Toph, and Sokka. She would have no doubt tried this on Zuko as well had she been thinking straight.

    The facts have been laid out countless times. Azula is probabaly the 4th most powerful firebender behind the masters I previously mentioned. She is a prodigy, and she gains skill faster then other firebenders, that's what a prodigy is, someone that is naturally skilled at something. I believe that had she been thinking straight, the outcome would have been VERY different...but she had to in order to complete her character story. We can speculate on this for the rest of our lives, but I stand by what I juss wasted my time typing because I doubt half the people here will read it. Plus Zuko is older then her, so naturally he would be stronger, but obviously this doesn't help him much because Azula is a prodigy. Azula is OVERALL more powerful then Zuko. When your looking for a quaterback you dont look for someone that can throw the ball far...you look for someone that can do that, has good vision, doesn't get injured easily, can think under pressure, and kills dogs in their spare time, That is pretty much Azulas description to the max!!!

    Zuko is a master. Hence...the episode "Firebending Masters". He received the knowledge that would make him a master. But I wont argue that point, because even if Zuko isn't a master in your eyes or maybe he isnt at all, he still is undoubtedly a powerful bender. And as i said before, insanity made Azula more powerful. She put all her strength and rage into her fire and made it STRONGER especially with comet. THE COMET HAD AN AFFECT ON HER POWERS! Oh and i didn't know that being on the brink of insanity made people tired. you would think that insanity gets people more buzzed than usual... I must definately look in to that.(seriously) Zuko purposefully missed Ozai and aimed at his feet because as he said in his speech, the Avatar was meant to kill the firelord, not him. So if Zuko redirected the lightning, he would not have held back at Azula. And my last point. Of course Azula would have accepted the battle even if she new she wouldnt have won. Was she going to let Zuko take the throne without a fight? noooo. Anyways, she thought she was better than Zuko because of her cockiness and because she underestimated Zuko.

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