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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Why I think Ozai will be taken alive

  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [101]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
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    kratosgod69 wrote:
    From the book?
    Kinda, but not really, it depends if you keep up with news.
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  • Avatar of hkulka2974

    hkulka2974

    [103]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 04/23/08
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    suss2it wrote:
    kratosgod69 wrote:
    From the book?
    Kinda, but not really, it depends if you keep up with news.

    what do you mean?

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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [104]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
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    hkulka2974 wrote:

    suss2it wrote:
    kratosgod69 wrote:
    From the book?
    Kinda, but not really, it depends if you keep up with news.

    what do you mean?

    Have you heard of a thing called Phoenix King?
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  • Avatar of hkulka2974

    hkulka2974

    [105]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 04/23/08
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    suss2it wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:

    suss2it wrote:
    kratosgod69 wrote:
    From the book?
    Kinda, but not really, it depends if you keep up with news.

    what do you mean?

    Have you heard of a thing called Phoenix King?

    oh yeah now i get where your coming from.

    i forgot about that news i didnt figure it to be of much importance

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [106]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that the firenation is in complete control of the world now, and killing Ozai and Azula is not going to change that.

    Not really, being in complete control of the world means that a majority of the FN people/inhabitants came from other nations. The colonies of the FN in the Earth Kingdom, as shown in the episode Imprisoned, were treated poorly and taxed heavily, not to mention that their loved ones were taken away if they were found to be earthbenders. Killing Ozai will make the FN lose their monarch and therefore become unstable, without having someone to oversee their domination of the world. Also the people probably wouldnt revolt considering some villages, like the one in The Painted Lady actually suffered from the war. and i'm guessing that the villagers werent too fond of ozai. Though the problem that still remains as you mentioned Axrendale is that the aristrocrats, generals and people in power probably wouldnt approve of a new leader such as zuko or iroh.

    When I say the colonies, I don't mean the captured earth kingdom towns like the one Haru came from. Those are not the fireenation colonies. The firenation colonies are the ones we saw in "The Deserter" and "The Avatar State" - towns that were built by firenation citizens who left the firenation for some reason or another to start a new life in the earth kingdom. From the scenes in "the deserter", the people seemed pretty happy, not mention loyal to the firelord (remember the puppet show). Plus, there's the fact that the people in some the older colonies were most likely born there. It is their home, and they will not appreciate Zuko helping the avatar kill Ozai, and then taking over as firelord and ordering them to up and move back to the firenation.

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  • Avatar of dannysgal

    dannysgal

    [107]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/01/07
    • level: 5
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    • posts: 227
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    dannysgal wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    SlargTheGnome wrote:

    You make a very good point. It would be impossible for Zuko/Iroh to take the throne without any protest unless Ozai "permitted" it. That whole thing with him being forced into passing the rule to one of them is actually a really good idea. I can definitely see that happening.

    So. . . now that I think about it, Ozai probably won't die. . . but that doesn't mean Azula can't die a horrible gruesome death. And really, what do you think would be worse for Ozai -- dying, or watching his favored daughter get killed?

    Actually, that's not true. If both Ozai and Azula die, it doesn't matter what Ozai wanted. The throne would go to one of the only living heirs: Zuko or Iroh.

    Plus, Ozai would never surrender willfully. I could imagine something like after

    Well actually Zuko nor Iroh are heirs to the throne, since they've been deemed traitors.

    You people just love to one up me.

    Okay, how about this. They have been deemed traitors under Ozai, but with Ozai dead... Plus, Iroh and Zuko would be the only blood relatives left, making them the only living heirs.

    Seriously once they are deemed traitors, it doesn't matter if they are blood related they are no longer heirs to the throne. Only if the new leaders of the Fire Nation, or Ozai himself say otherwise can they actually become heirs again. In fact I'll be shocked if Ozai dies and Zuko inexplicably becomes the Firelord since it's illogical and doesn't make any sense.

    Ozai would never let Zuko take the throne. They could have him in chains and be torturing him, but he'd still say no.

    Unless he battled them in an agni kai for the throne, if he wins then it's all his! And even if he doesn't they just need Azula to go down and him still be standing with Ozai unable to have a say. Then they have no choice because he won the throne. And that way they could kill of Ozai and Azula because he won it in a fire duel that proves he's the stronger more capable leader.

    thats not a bad idea, but i doubt we'll see zuko fight ozai

    remember in DoBS zuko said that it was the Avatar's destiny to stop ozai not his

    But Ozai will be the Pheonix King, not Fire lord. He just has to battle the current fire lord and I doubt you can be a king and lord, it would be putting way to much pressure on one person and he's not that stupid.

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  • Avatar of dannysgal

    dannysgal

    [108]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/01/07
    • level: 5
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    • posts: 227
    Axrendale wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that the firenation is in complete control of the world now, and killing Ozai and Azula is not going to change that.

    Not really, being in complete control of the world means that a majority of the FN people/inhabitants came from other nations. The colonies of the FN in the Earth Kingdom, as shown in the episode Imprisoned, were treated poorly and taxed heavily, not to mention that their loved ones were taken away if they were found to be earthbenders. Killing Ozai will make the FN lose their monarch and therefore become unstable, without having someone to oversee their domination of the world. Also the people probably wouldnt revolt considering some villages, like the one in The Painted Lady actually suffered from the war. and i'm guessing that the villagers werent too fond of ozai. Though the problem that still remains as you mentioned Axrendale is that the aristrocrats, generals and people in power probably wouldnt approve of a new leader such as zuko or iroh.

    When I say the colonies, I don't mean the captured earth kingdom towns like the one Haru came from. Those are not the fireenation colonies. The firenation colonies are the ones we saw in "The Deserter" and "The Avatar State" - towns that were built by firenation citizens who left the firenation for some reason or another to start a new life in the earth kingdom. From the scenes in "the deserter", the people seemed pretty happy, not mention loyal to the firelord (remember the puppet show). Plus, there's the fact that the people in some the older colonies were most likely born there. It is their home, and they will not appreciate Zuko helping the avatar kill Ozai, and then taking over as firelord and ordering them to up and move back to the firenation.

    Why couldn't they work on a system to share it? Completely blend the civilizations. It's like the Guru said, they are all one people who live as though divided. That's something I think Zuko can understand, and Iroh espescially!

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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [109]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
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    dannysgal wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    dannysgal wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    SlargTheGnome wrote:

    You make a very good point. It would be impossible for Zuko/Iroh to take the throne without any protest unless Ozai "permitted" it. That whole thing with him being forced into passing the rule to one of them is actually a really good idea. I can definitely see that happening.

    So. . . now that I think about it, Ozai probably won't die. . . but that doesn't mean Azula can't die a horrible gruesome death. And really, what do you think would be worse for Ozai -- dying, or watching his favored daughter get killed?

    Actually, that's not true. If both Ozai and Azula die, it doesn't matter what Ozai wanted. The throne would go to one of the only living heirs: Zuko or Iroh.

    Plus, Ozai would never surrender willfully. I could imagine something like after

    Well actually Zuko nor Iroh are heirs to the throne, since they've been deemed traitors.

    You people just love to one up me.

    Okay, how about this. They have been deemed traitors under Ozai, but with Ozai dead... Plus, Iroh and Zuko would be the only blood relatives left, making them the only living heirs.

    Seriously once they are deemed traitors, it doesn't matter if they are blood related they are no longer heirs to the throne. Only if the new leaders of the Fire Nation, or Ozai himself say otherwise can they actually become heirs again. In fact I'll be shocked if Ozai dies and Zuko inexplicably becomes the Firelord since it's illogical and doesn't make any sense.

    Ozai would never let Zuko take the throne. They could have him in chains and be torturing him, but he'd still say no.

    Unless he battled them in an agni kai for the throne, if he wins then it's all his! And even if he doesn't they just need Azula to go down and him still be standing with Ozai unable to have a say. Then they have no choice because he won the throne. And that way they could kill of Ozai and Azula because he won it in a fire duel that proves he's the stronger more capable leader.

    thats not a bad idea, but i doubt we'll see zuko fight ozai

    remember in DoBS zuko said that it was the Avatar's destiny to stop ozai not his

    But Ozai will be the Pheonix King, not Fire lord. He just has to battle the current fire lord and I doubt you can be a king and lord, it would be putting way to much pressure on one person and he's not that stupid.

    Yes but if Zuko did become FireLord by defeating Azula, and Ozai was there, he would simply slay Zuko, or imprison him or something, seeing as though Phoenix King outranks FireLord.
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  • Avatar of hkulka2974

    hkulka2974

    [110]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 04/23/08
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    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 1,568
    suss2it wrote:
    dannysgal wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    dannysgal wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    SlargTheGnome wrote:

    You make a very good point. It would be impossible for Zuko/Iroh to take the throne without any protest unless Ozai "permitted" it. That whole thing with him being forced into passing the rule to one of them is actually a really good idea. I can definitely see that happening.

    So. . . now that I think about it, Ozai probably won't die. . . but that doesn't mean Azula can't die a horrible gruesome death. And really, what do you think would be worse for Ozai -- dying, or watching his favored daughter get killed?

    Actually, that's not true. If both Ozai and Azula die, it doesn't matter what Ozai wanted. The throne would go to one of the only living heirs: Zuko or Iroh.

    Plus, Ozai would never surrender willfully. I could imagine something like after

    Well actually Zuko nor Iroh are heirs to the throne, since they've been deemed traitors.

    You people just love to one up me.

    Okay, how about this. They have been deemed traitors under Ozai, but with Ozai dead... Plus, Iroh and Zuko would be the only blood relatives left, making them the only living heirs.

    Seriously once they are deemed traitors, it doesn't matter if they are blood related they are no longer heirs to the throne. Only if the new leaders of the Fire Nation, or Ozai himself say otherwise can they actually become heirs again. In fact I'll be shocked if Ozai dies and Zuko inexplicably becomes the Firelord since it's illogical and doesn't make any sense.

    Ozai would never let Zuko take the throne. They could have him in chains and be torturing him, but he'd still say no.

    Unless he battled them in an agni kai for the throne, if he wins then it's all his! And even if he doesn't they just need Azula to go down and him still be standing with Ozai unable to have a say. Then they have no choice because he won the throne. And that way they could kill of Ozai and Azula because he won it in a fire duel that proves he's the stronger more capable leader.

    thats not a bad idea, but i doubt we'll see zuko fight ozai

    remember in DoBS zuko said that it was the Avatar's destiny to stop ozai not his

    But Ozai will be the Pheonix King, not Fire lord. He just has to battle the current fire lord and I doubt you can be a king and lord, it would be putting way to much pressure on one person and he's not that stupid.

    Yes but if Zuko did become FireLord by defeating Azula, and Ozai was there, he would simply slay Zuko, or imprison him or something, seeing as though Phoenix King outranks FireLord.

    pretty much ozai and azula must be defeated in order for zuko to possibly take the throne.

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  • Avatar of dannysgal

    dannysgal

    [111]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/01/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 227
    suss2it wrote:
    dannysgal wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    dannysgal wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    amdragfreak wrote:
    SlargTheGnome wrote:

    You make a very good point. It would be impossible for Zuko/Iroh to take the throne without any protest unless Ozai "permitted" it. That whole thing with him being forced into passing the rule to one of them is actually a really good idea. I can definitely see that happening.

    So. . . now that I think about it, Ozai probably won't die. . . but that doesn't mean Azula can't die a horrible gruesome death. And really, what do you think would be worse for Ozai -- dying, or watching his favored daughter get killed?

    Actually, that's not true. If both Ozai and Azula die, it doesn't matter what Ozai wanted. The throne would go to one of the only living heirs: Zuko or Iroh.

    Plus, Ozai would never surrender willfully. I could imagine something like after

    Well actually Zuko nor Iroh are heirs to the throne, since they've been deemed traitors.

    You people just love to one up me.

    Okay, how about this. They have been deemed traitors under Ozai, but with Ozai dead... Plus, Iroh and Zuko would be the only blood relatives left, making them the only living heirs.

    Seriously once they are deemed traitors, it doesn't matter if they are blood related they are no longer heirs to the throne. Only if the new leaders of the Fire Nation, or Ozai himself say otherwise can they actually become heirs again. In fact I'll be shocked if Ozai dies and Zuko inexplicably becomes the Firelord since it's illogical and doesn't make any sense.

    Ozai would never let Zuko take the throne. They could have him in chains and be torturing him, but he'd still say no.

    Unless he battled them in an agni kai for the throne, if he wins then it's all his! And even if he doesn't they just need Azula to go down and him still be standing with Ozai unable to have a say. Then they have no choice because he won the throne. And that way they could kill of Ozai and Azula because he won it in a fire duel that proves he's the stronger more capable leader.

    thats not a bad idea, but i doubt we'll see zuko fight ozai

    remember in DoBS zuko said that it was the Avatar's destiny to stop ozai not his

    But Ozai will be the Pheonix King, not Fire lord. He just has to battle the current fire lord and I doubt you can be a king and lord, it would be putting way to much pressure on one person and he's not that stupid.

    Yes but if Zuko did become FireLord by defeating Azula, and Ozai was there, he would simply slay Zuko, or imprison him or something, seeing as though Phoenix King outranks FireLord.

    Unless Aang takes down the pheonix king. And since we've never heard of one then perhaps once one is dead then you don't have another until it's nessacary or until some dictator shows up and wipes out the other nations. They've just gotta double team, Zuko to Azula, Aang to Ozai. Zuko said it himself in Boiling Rock in response to Suki's 'Rematch I've been waiting for' he said Me too. But the thing is he had Sokka helping so it didn't seem as though it was his fight. he's tried numerous times to fight her but it's always unbalanced by Iroh, Dai Li, gang, sokka, so we need to have a two on two fight to the finish. If Zuko and Aang team against Ozai and Azula the sides would be perfectly fair. If they could take out the two the pheanix king would be out of the picture and Zuko would have won the fight for the throne. But then again it's a great blind earth bender once said "Things don't go that smoothly for our little gang"

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [112]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
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    dannysgal wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that the firenation is in complete control of the world now, and killing Ozai and Azula is not going to change that.

    Not really, being in complete control of the world means that a majority of the FN people/inhabitants came from other nations. The colonies of the FN in the Earth Kingdom, as shown in the episode Imprisoned, were treated poorly and taxed heavily, not to mention that their loved ones were taken away if they were found to be earthbenders. Killing Ozai will make the FN lose their monarch and therefore become unstable, without having someone to oversee their domination of the world. Also the people probably wouldnt revolt considering some villages, like the one in The Painted Lady actually suffered from the war. and i'm guessing that the villagers werent too fond of ozai. Though the problem that still remains as you mentioned Axrendale is that the aristrocrats, generals and people in power probably wouldnt approve of a new leader such as zuko or iroh.

    When I say the colonies, I don't mean the captured earth kingdom towns like the one Haru came from. Those are not the fireenation colonies. The firenation colonies are the ones we saw in "The Deserter" and "The Avatar State" - towns that were built by firenation citizens who left the firenation for some reason or another to start a new life in the earth kingdom. From the scenes in "the deserter", the people seemed pretty happy, not mention loyal to the firelord (remember the puppet show). Plus, there's the fact that the people in some the older colonies were most likely born there. It is their home, and they will not appreciate Zuko helping the avatar kill Ozai, and then taking over as firelord and ordering them to up and move back to the firenation.

    Why couldn't they work on a system to share it? Completely blend the civilizations. It's like the Guru said, they are all one people who live as though divided. That's something I think Zuko can understand, and Iroh espescially!

    Somhow, I have a feeling that the earth kingdom is going to want them gone. Without an army to protect them, I imagine that it wouldn't be long before an angry mob of refugees comes after the colonies to take back their homes.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [113]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    This thread is going way off topic.

    I think that it's time to let it die.

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  • Avatar of hkulka2974

    hkulka2974

    [114]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 04/23/08
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    Axrendale wrote:

    This thread is going way off topic.

    I think that it's time to let it die.

    you said that on the last page, it probably wont happen.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [115]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    This thread is going way off topic.

    I think that it's time to let it die.

    you said that on the last page, it probably wont happen.

    Very well then. If the thread refuses to die, then let it at least be given a little nudge back on topic.

    The fact is simple. Whether it is Ozai, Azula, or somthing else, the heroes need some way to control the firenation miliatry at least long enough to firmly establish Zuko or Iroh as the next ruler. With Sozin's Comet having arrived fighting them is not an option.

    So I ask this question: If Ozai or Azula will not be used to force the rest of the firenation into a complete surender, what will? Even if the elimination of the only members of the royal family who haven't been declared traitors does throw the firenation into chaos, how will the gaang stop them from causing massive destruction in revenge for Ozai?

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  • Avatar of hkulka2974

    hkulka2974

    [116]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 04/23/08
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    Axrendale wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    This thread is going way off topic.

    I think that it's time to let it die.

    you said that on the last page, it probably wont happen.

    Very well then. If the thread refuses to die, then let it at least be given a little nudge back on topic.

    The fact is simple. Whether it is Ozai, Azula, or somthing else, the heroes need some way to control the firenation miliatry at least long enough to firmly establish Zuko or Iroh as the next ruler. With Sozin's Comet having arrived fighting them is not an option.

    So I ask this question: If Ozai or Azula will not be used to force the rest of the firenation into a complete surender, what will? Even if the elimination of the only members of the royal family who haven't been declared traitors does throw the firenation into chaos, how will the gaang stop them from causing massive destruction in revenge for Ozai?

    who says the army will have harnessed the power of sozin's comet. the gaang could stop the army before they reached it. also how would the fire nation know the trojectory of the comet?

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [117]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
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    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    This thread is going way off topic.

    I think that it's time to let it die.

    you said that on the last page, it probably wont happen.

    Very well then. If the thread refuses to die, then let it at least be given a little nudge back on topic.

    The fact is simple. Whether it is Ozai, Azula, or somthing else, the heroes need some way to control the firenation miliatry at least long enough to firmly establish Zuko or Iroh as the next ruler. With Sozin's Comet having arrived fighting them is not an option.

    So I ask this question: If Ozai or Azula will not be used to force the rest of the firenation into a complete surender, what will? Even if the elimination of the only members of the royal family who haven't been declared traitors does throw the firenation into chaos, how will the gaang stop them from causing massive destruction in revenge for Ozai?

    who says the army will have harnessed the power of sozin's comet. the gaang could stop the army before they reached it. also how would the fire nation know the trojectory of the comet?

    Sozin's Comet, once known as the centennially returning "Great Comet" is the firenation's answer to the full moon that grants tremendous power to the water tribe. It is not somthing that needs to be purpsefully harnessed, it comes, it grants firebenders unbelievable strength for several years, and leaves.

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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [118]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
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    Axrendale wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    This thread is going way off topic.

    I think that it's time to let it die.

    you said that on the last page, it probably wont happen.

    Very well then. If the thread refuses to die, then let it at least be given a little nudge back on topic.

    The fact is simple. Whether it is Ozai, Azula, or somthing else, the heroes need some way to control the firenation miliatry at least long enough to firmly establish Zuko or Iroh as the next ruler. With Sozin's Comet having arrived fighting them is not an option.

    So I ask this question: If Ozai or Azula will not be used to force the rest of the firenation into a complete surender, what will? Even if the elimination of the only members of the royal family who haven't been declared traitors does throw the firenation into chaos, how will the gaang stop them from causing massive destruction in revenge for Ozai?

    who says the army will have harnessed the power of sozin's comet. the gaang could stop the army before they reached it. also how would the fire nation know the trojectory of the comet?

    Sozin's Comet, once known as the centennially returning "Great Comet" is the firenation's answer to the full moon that grants tremendous power to the water tribe. It is not somthing that needs to be purpsefully harnessed, it comes, it grants firebenders unbelievable strength for several years, and leaves.

    Several years? Where did you get that from?
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  • Avatar of ColtsPenguins

    ColtsPenguins

    [119]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 02/18/07
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    probaly from wiki[pedia
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [120]Jul 15, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
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    suss2it wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    hkulka2974 wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    This thread is going way off topic.

    I think that it's time to let it die.

    you said that on the last page, it probably wont happen.

    Very well then. If the thread refuses to die, then let it at least be given a little nudge back on topic.

    The fact is simple. Whether it is Ozai, Azula, or somthing else, the heroes need some way to control the firenation miliatry at least long enough to firmly establish Zuko or Iroh as the next ruler. With Sozin's Comet having arrived fighting them is not an option.

    So I ask this question: If Ozai or Azula will not be used to force the rest of the firenation into a complete surender, what will? Even if the elimination of the only members of the royal family who haven't been declared traitors does throw the firenation into chaos, how will the gaang stop them from causing massive destruction in revenge for Ozai?

    who says the army will have harnessed the power of sozin's comet. the gaang could stop the army before they reached it. also how would the fire nation know the trojectory of the comet?

    Sozin's Comet, once known as the centennially returning "Great Comet" is the firenation's answer to the full moon that grants tremendous power to the water tribe. It is not somthing that needs to be purpsefully harnessed, it comes, it grants firebenders unbelievable strength for several years, and leaves.

    Several years? Where did you get that from?

    Absolutely nowhere it is just guess based on reasoning.

    We know that the power of Sozin's comet lasted long enough for thefirenation to "deal a deadly first strike against the other nations".

    Since the firenation and the water tribes are supposed to be equally powerful opposites, it stands to reason that Sozin's comet, the FN's equivalent of the full moon, grants power equal to the 1200 full moons that occur between each passover of the comet.

    So either the comet grants firebenders the power the full moon gives waterbenders X 1200 for a very short time (unlikely), or it grants them a slightly less awsome amount of power (that is still signifigantly greater than waterbender-full moon powers) that remains constant for several years at least, which is about how long the Fire Nation would have needed to exterminate the Air Nomads and cripple the Earth Kingdom and Water Tribes.

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