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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Why I think Ozai will be taken alive

  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [1]Jul 10, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
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    There have been several threads made recently speculating about potential deaths of main characters in the finale. the discussion has covered many of the characters, but the ones it seems to keep circling back to are Ozai, and Azula, and it is for this reason that I think they deserve a thread discussing the possibility of their deaths.

    The idea of either or both of the series' two main villains remaining alive at the end of "Avatar Aang" has basically recieved three responses - people who want the villains to die and would consider it a lame ending, people who want them to die but are confident that Bryke would make it just as good as an ending where they die, and amdragfreak, who seems to consider even the notion of a death-free ending a personal insult.

    Personally, I am in fact hoping dearly that Ozai survives the finale. Why, you may ask? It is not because I have any sympathy for the Firelord/Phoenix King - quite the contrary: I wish him an incredibly painful death as payment for everything he has done and ordered others to do. The reason I think that Ozai surviving would be the best ending is because it answers what for me has always been the biggest and only real plot-hole in ATLA; How does killing the Firelord end the war, or for that matter, make things even remotely better?

    What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that the firenation is in complete control of the world now, and killing Ozai and Azula is not going to change that. If they were to die, it would be fairly reasonable to expect the fanatically loyal population of the firenation to set the entire earth kingdom on fire in revenge for the death of their leader. Admiral Zhao cannot have been the only ambitious firenation officer - it's almost inconcievable that somone would not be able to seize some measure of control, and once they do, Sozin's comet will still come, the firenation still becomes invincible, and triumphs, with or without Ozai and Azula. Some people believe that Zuko or Iroh might be able to take over as the firelord once Ozai is dead, but I find that very unlikely with Ozai having had a weeks to make sure that every firenation citizen knows that Zuko and Iroh are the worst of traitors.That the propeganda is taking effect is obvious from the contempt visited on Iroh by the leader of the Rough Rhinos and his jailer, as well as the Warden of the boiling rock's statement that if the other prisoners found out who Zuko was he would be torn apart.

    That the gaang are aware of this is made evident by Hakkoda's line in DOBS; "...we will have control of the firenation capital, and this war will be over!". As well as taking out Ozai, one of the main objectives of the invasion was to capture and hold the fire nation capital city, which as the home of both the aristocracy of the firenation and the heads of all the various branches of its military would have been the perfect bargaining chip to bring the firenation onto the negotiating table. Deprived of this plan, the gaang need a new bargaining chip - Ozai or Azula, who as the Phoenix King and the Firelady would both be capable of staging a public ceremony in which they hand over the crown to Zuko or Iroh, who would then be able to end the war peacefully.

    I think that the best way for this to happen would be for this to happen would be for Aang and Ozai to have the mother of all epic bending battles, and for Aang to then defeat Ozai. Just as Aang is about to deliver the death blow, Ozai could taunt Aang, saying that he had given orders for his armies to cause mass destruction all over the world if they recieved news that Ozai had been killed. Aang, seeing that there is no way for him to kill Ozai in good conscience, then decides to take him alive, which would of course have been Ozai's plan all along.

    Added to this is the possible foreshadowing in the series of something other than death for Ozai. As well as Aang's musing in The Avatar and the Firelord about even the firelord deserving a second chance, there is also the intriguing fact that nobody has ever said "Aang, you must kill the firelord". Instead, they always say "Aang, you must defeat the firelord".

    Whenever a flame war flares up with the Naruto or Spongebob fans, the first argument we always use as to why our glorious show is better than theirs is our superior writing and character development. ATLA is a series that, faced with a choice between an ending that the audience has expressed interest in and a smart ending, tends to choose the smart ending. I think that is something we can be proud of about our series.

    So, anyway, that's why I think that Ozai and/or Azula will survive the finale.

    WARNING: HISTORICAL COMPARISON BELOW. IF YOU HAVE NO DESIRE FOR ANOTHER OF MY HISTORICAL COMPARISONS, I SUGGEST YOU DESIST READING.

    After my previous posts, you have no boubt become used to hearing something historical from me, so I leave you with a historical example of what I'm talking about.

    In the year 44BC Julius Caesar, the Dictator Perpetuus of the Roman Republic, was assasinated by aristocratic senators who were angered by Caesar's willingness to attempt to improve the living conditions of the poor of Rome at the expense of the rich nobility. Caesar was one of the greatest tactical geniuss and most brilliant generals of all time, so the senators knew they had no chance of beating his deadly legionaries in battle. They reasoned, however, that if Caesar were assasinated his followers would blindly follow them instead, and they would once again rule the republic. The senators were wrong however. When they learned of Caesar's death, the Roman people, who loved Caesar as their champion and regarded him with fanatical loyalty rose up in anger against the Senate, most of whom were soon murdered. With Caesar and most of the Senate dead, Caesar's military commanders, no longer restrained by loyalty to a leader, soon stepped in and seized power for themselves. The new modernized republic Caesar had dreamed of and the oligarchy the Senate had dreamed of were both lost forever, replaced by military dictatorship under the Roman Emperors.

    I am not trying to draw a comparison between Caesar, an enlightened visionary leader, and Ozai, a military dictator. My point is that it was the short-sightedness of the roman senate in assuming that if they dealt with Caesar problems like his powerful military force would simply fade away by themselves was what doomed their plan to faliure before they had even killed Caesar. With luck the gaang will not make the same mistake.

    Edited on 07/11/2008 9:09pm
    Edited 7 total times.
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  • Avatar of xRamensx

    xRamensx

    [2]Jul 11, 2008
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    This is amazing. I applaud you until my hands get tired and/or hurt. I am way too tired to add anything to this. Though, I don't know how much more needs to be said.

    I love it when people connect Avatar to stuff. Whether it be to movies, TV, books, and especially history. I'm not a history expert, but if someone finds a way to relate history to my interests, I remember it much better.

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  • Avatar of Blind_Legend

    Blind_Legend

    [3]Jul 11, 2008
    • member since: 06/21/08
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    to long and im to tired to read. but judging by the title i say nick will make them take him alive as a hostage



    This is a kids show. it cant show someones death
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  • Avatar of KikitheFiend

    KikitheFiend

    [4]Jul 11, 2008
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    I enjoyed reading a sensible post for once. Kudos. I liked your comparisons to the Roman republic/empire
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  • Avatar of Vxiel

    Vxiel

    [5]Jul 11, 2008
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    Interesting I wondered if the FN citizens would rebel Ozai's death. I have this strong feeling Ozai and Azula are both going to live
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  • Avatar of PsychoPass

    PsychoPass

    [7]Jul 11, 2008
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    Very, very enlightening Azrendale. You have changed my perspectives on this matter very much. Though there's a problem... If Ozai and Azula were used for said bargaining ship, why would the fire nation care about them anymore if they were removed of all their power?
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  • Avatar of picaboomman

    picaboomman

    [8]Jul 11, 2008
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    sorry but i didnt read
    i just woke up but it looks good
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  • Avatar of PsychoPass

    PsychoPass

    [9]Jul 11, 2008
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    picaboomman wrote:
    sorry but i didnt read
    i just woke up but it looks good


    Read it; it's quite good.
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  • Avatar of AvatarSensation

    AvatarSensation

    [10]Jul 11, 2008
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    That's a pretty good observation. But there's also something I've been wondering about, does the Fire Lord rule by fear? Honestly, he's powerful and probably more powerful than Azula (I have a hunch). But if so, Ozai alive would be a threat to his own people, in my theory of course. I mean, if Azula rules with an iron grip and uses fear as a huge part, why not Ozai? So the next question is, do the people of the Fire Nation actually like the war? Were they forced into attacking after 100 years, beacuse we've seen how badly it has affected the people itself. So if Ozai and Azula were to suddenly vanish from the planet, are you sure that the armies would be willing to fight just for their leaders or would they fall back and willingly give in to the Avatar?
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  • Avatar of kratosgod69

    kratosgod69

    [11]Jul 11, 2008
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    Plenty would. The propoganda is huge. To the point where Aang killing Ozai would provoke a mass revolt. While there are some (the people from the village in the painted lady) who would be neutral at best, the general population would be angry.
    Edited on 07/11/2008 7:55am
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  • Avatar of AvatarSensation

    AvatarSensation

    [12]Jul 11, 2008
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    Well I guess you have a point there. But you never really know I guess. But then what would the Avatar do with an alive Ozai and Azula? I'm sure it's not as simple as putting them in jail...
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [13]Jul 11, 2008
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    PsychoPass wrote:
    Very, very enlightening Azrendale. You have changed my perspectives on this matter very much. Though there's a problem... If Ozai and Azula were used for said bargaining ship, why would the fire nation care about them anymore if they were removed of all their power?

    Basically, I think that's where Avatar's tendancy to have a "moral to the story" kicks in. The firelords were the people who for the last 100 years have been turning the firenation into a nation of blindly obediant followers who will do exactly as the firelord says, no mattter what the circumstances are, and now that's going to come back to bight them on the ass. Also, I think that this may be where the reasoning lies for Ozai's new title. Even if the firenation citizens might have refused an order from a captive firelord, there is no way in million years that they would refuse a captive Phoenix King.

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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [14]Jul 11, 2008
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    AvatarSensation wrote:
    Well I guess you have a point there. But you never really know I guess. But then what would the Avatar do with an alive Ozai and Azula? I'm sure it's not as simple as putting them in jail...

    Well, there's always those freezer things in the boiling rock.

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  • Avatar of AvatarSensation

    AvatarSensation

    [15]Jul 11, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    AvatarSensation wrote:
    Well I guess you have a point there. But you never really know I guess. But then what would the Avatar do with an alive Ozai and Azula? I'm sure it's not as simple as putting them in jail...

    Well, there's always those freezer things in the boiling rock.


    See? I wouldn't know. I mean, their more powerful than that...
    Unless of course something really unexpected happened, which I can't think of right now.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [16]Jul 11, 2008
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    AvatarSensation wrote:
    That's a pretty good observation. But there's also something I've been wondering about, does the Fire Lord rule by fear? Honestly, he's powerful and probably more powerful than Azula (I have a hunch). But if so, Ozai alive would be a threat to his own people, in my theory of course. I mean, if Azula rules with an iron grip and uses fear as a huge part, why not Ozai? So the next question is, do the people of the Fire Nation actually like the war? Were they forced into attacking after 100 years, beacuse we've seen how badly it has affected the people itself. So if Ozai and Azula were to suddenly vanish from the planet, are you sure that the armies would be willing to fight just for their leaders or would they fall back and willingly give in to the Avatar?

    Ozai doesn't need to rule by fear, and even if he does, the people really would probably tolerate it. These people have been hearing almost nothing but what a great guy the firelord is pretty much since the moment they were born, and they worship him as a minor deity. And the war has definitly not been harmful to everybody. I seriously doubt that the people living in the firenation colonies are going to complain about the war. And while a few villages that were unfortunate enough to be near the military factories were harmed, it is unlikely that everyone's lives have been wrecked. Wars in the style of the one the firenation is fighting gain money, not lose it, and the firenation is probably enjoying a time of prosperity. To use Julius Caesar again as an example, when he originally set out to conquer Gaul (modern day france), both he and the city of Rome were in serious debt, and to make things even worse, he was forced to pay his soldiers double their normal salary to keep them happy. 10 years and 3 million dead barbarian warriors later, he was the richest man in the world and Rome was thriving off the loot that he had sent home, and was able to cancel most of its taxes.

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  • Avatar of toosmooth

    toosmooth

    [18]Jul 11, 2008
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    yillyiscool wrote:
    Spoiler: DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT...
    ***SPOILER***
    Not necessarily. The book may yet be wrong. As I believe it is.
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  • Avatar of yillyiscool

    yillyiscool

    [19]Jul 11, 2008
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    This is nickelodeon. They won't let someone get burned badly like first degree with fire or cute by water or blown lungs by air or crush them with air.
    Edited on 07/11/2008 8:33am
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  • Avatar of amdragfreak

    amdragfreak

    [20]Jul 11, 2008
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    toosmooth wrote:
    yillyiscool wrote:
    Spoiler: DO NOT READ BEYOND THIS POINT...
    ***SPOILER***
    Not necessarily. The book may yet be wrong. As I believe it is.

    It's true. The book is accurate.

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