Nickelodeon (ended 2008)
| amdragfreak wrote: | ||||||||||
Ozai would never let Zuko take the throne. They could have him in chains and be torturing him, but he'd still say no. |
It's surprising what people who love life will do to keep it. And before you say that the good guys would never threaten anyone with death, I refer to you the Zuko/Katara scene at the end of WAT. And even if they refused to threaten to outright kill Ozai, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine them threatening to turn him over to the citizens of the earth kingdom, or some other equally lethal situation.
and could you please stop just endlessly objecting to this theory! We get the message; you think it would be bad if they didn't kill Ozai and Azula. That's great, you're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to keep posting about it, could you also explain why this idea is wrong, and tells us how you think the war could be ended with Ozai and Azula dead.
| Axrendale wrote: | ||||||||||||
It's surprising what people who love life will do to keep it. And before you say that the good guys would never threaten anyone with death, I refer to you the Zuko/Katara scene at the end of WAT. And even if they refused to threaten to outright kill Ozai, it's not too much of a stretch to imagine them threatening to turn him over to the citizens of the earth kingdom, or some other equally lethal situation. and could you please stop just endlessly objecting to this theory! We get the message; you think it would be bad if they didn't kill Ozai and Azula. That's great, you're entitled to your opinion, but if you're going to keep posting about it, could you also explain why this idea is wrong, and tells us how you think the war could be ended with Ozai and Azula dead. |
Are you not getting what I'm saying? Am I speaking something other than english?
Ozai and Azula would probably not surrender willingly. Like Zhao, they would probably choose death over surrender. The people of the Fire Nation are all about pride. If they said "appoint Zuko as Fire Lord or we'll kill you", Ozai would probably choose death.
| amdragfreak wrote: | ||||||||||||||
Are you not getting what I'm saying? Am I speaking something other than english? Ozai and Azula would probably not surrender willingly. Like Zhao, they would probably choose death over surrender. The people of the Fire Nation are all about pride. If they said "appoint Zuko as Fire Lord or we'll kill you", Ozai would probably choose death. |
| MaddoKos wrote: | ||||||||||||||||
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Actually, he kinda did. He refused help from Zuko.
| amdragfreak wrote: | ||||||||||||||
Are you not getting what I'm saying? Am I speaking something other than english? Ozai and Azula would probably not surrender willingly. Like Zhao, they would probably choose death over surrender. The people of the Fire Nation are all about pride. If they said "appoint Zuko as Fire Lord or we'll kill you", Ozai would probably choose death. |
I don't think that the firenation are "all about pride". It is true that Zhao's pride refused to let him admit he needed Zuko's help, but remember, Zhao's pride, arrogance, recklessness, impatience, refusal to do the smart thing if it meant admitting he was wrong (AKA killing the moon spirit after he had been informed that it would unbalance the world and Iroh would kill him), etc, were all specific weaknesses that the writers set up for Zhao. Azula, and presumably Ozai, share none of those characteristics other than the arrogance - both are smart, cold, ruthlessly pragmatic people who strike me as being willing to do anything in order to ensure their survival.
However I deeply apologize for not reading your post more carefully - you made an excellent point, and I am sorry for simply nagging you about it.
Azula, and presumably Ozai, share none of those characteristics other the arrogance - both are smart, cold, ruthlessly pragmatic people who strike me as being willing to do anything in order to ensure their survival.
[/QUOTE]
Hmm, you do have a point there. Azula resorted to trying to kill Iroh in order to escape, although they probably weren't going to kill her. About Ozai though, I'm not as sure. I don't really think I've seen Ozai do anything to ensure his safety, other than hiding during the eclipse, but any leader would do that... But you may have a point.
| amdragfreak wrote: |
Hmm, you do have a point there. Azula resorted to trying to kill Iroh in order to escape, although they probably weren't going to kill her. About Ozai though, I'm not as sure. I don't really think I've seen Ozai do anything to ensure his safety, other than hiding during the eclipse, but any leader would do that... But you may have a point. |
| amdragfreak wrote: |
Azula, and presumably Ozai, share none of those characteristics other the arrogance - both are smart, cold, ruthlessly pragmatic people who strike me as being willing to do anything in order to ensure their survival. |
Hmm, you do have a point there. Azula resorted to trying to kill Iroh in order to escape, although they probably weren't going to kill her. About Ozai though, I'm not as sure. I don't really think I've seen Ozai do anything to ensure his safety, other than hiding during the eclipse, but any leader would do that... But you may have a point.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks. Actually, to be honest, when I first heard about the possibility of Ozai not dieing I also thought it seemed kind of strange, mabye even lame. That was why I set out to analyze this theory - so that if this was the ending that happened I would have come to terms with it as a good ending and not have my hype for the finale killed. This is also why I have done my best to shoot down anyone who has objected to it; again so that I can feel good about it as an ending. As it turned out, once I really started to think about the ramifications of Ozai's death based on what we've seen of the firenation and the war so far, and researched historical cases of regicide I truly came to believe that Ozai surviving would be the best thing for the story (plus it answered the plot hole that had been niggling at me since the start of the series).
Either way, I'm glad that we got this thread back on a civilized note, and ceased discussion of that horrible book.
| xRamensx wrote: |
This is amazing. I applaud you until my hands get tired and/or hurt. I am way too tired to add anything to this. Though, I don't know how much more needs to be said. I love it when people connect Avatar to stuff. Whether it be to movies, TV, books, and especially history. I'm not a history expert, but if someone finds a way to relate history to my interests, I remember it much better. |
uuh.... you're forgetting one thing....
firenation treats zuko and iroh as traitors because that's what they believe, but what if the firelord have no power anymore over firenation there is a chance that the firenation would realize what have they done through out the world so they might adore zuko because he helped avatar to give balance to the world.... also not all firenation thinks that way....
and iroh.... we dont know what white lotus is.... dont focus on just one thing before giving any ideas on what will happen at the end
| ruboy003 wrote: |
uuh.... you're forgetting one thing.... firenation treats zuko and iroh as traitors because that's what they believe, but what if the firelord have no power anymore over firenation there is a chance that the firenation would realize what have they done through out the world so they might adore zuko because he helped avatar to give balance to the world.... also not all firenation thinks that way.... and iroh.... we dont know what white lotus is.... dont focus on just one thing before giving any ideas on what will happen at the end |
| ruboy003 wrote: |
| uuh.... you're forgetting one thing.... firenation treats zuko and iroh as traitors because that's what they believe, but what if the firelord have no power anymore over firenation there is a chance that the firenation would realize what have they done through out the world so they might adore zuko because he helped avatar to give balance to the world.... also not all firenation thinks that way.... and iroh.... we dont know what white lotus is.... dont focus on just one thing before giving any ideas on what will happen at the end |
Since childhood, these people have been raised to believe the war is a just cause, the firelord's word is law, and the avatar was an incredibly evil threat to the firenation. All indications so far have been that once the fiirelord says that you're a traitor, you're a traitor, no matter what your station might have been previously. For the last 100 years the majority of the firenation has been reaping the benefits of the spoils of war. In many ways, whether the general population would accept Zuko matters very little - the real problem is the firenation military, which is lead by ambitious, war-like commanders who will look on somone killing their leader, taking his place, and ordering them home unfavorably. Sozin's comet is still coming, and when it arrives, the gaang need some way to control the FN military and populace to the point that Zuko/Iroh is comfortably settled into the position of firelord and the war peacefully ended.
No matter how much influence the OWL might have, they most likely don't have the influence to calm the angy population of an entire nation and force a reluctant military to stand down.
| Axrendale wrote: | ||
Since childhood, these people have been raised to believe the war is a just cause, the firelord's word is law, and the avatar was an incredibly evil threat to the firenation. All indications so far have been that once the fiirelord says that you're a traitor, you're a traitor, no matter what your station might have been previously. For the last 100 years the majority of the firenation has been reaping the benefits of the spoils of war. In many ways, the whether the general population would accept Zuko matters very little - the real problem is the firenation military, which is lead by ambitious, war-like commanders who will look on somone killing their leader, taking his place, and ordering them home. Sozin's comet is still coming, and when it arrives, the gaang need some way to control the FN military and populace to the point why Zuko/Iroh is comfortably settled into the position of firelord and the war peacefully ended. No matter how much influence the OWL might have, they most likely don't have the influence to calm the angy population of an entire nation and force a reluctant military to stand down. |
| Blind_Legend wrote: |
| This is a kids show. it cant show someones death |
*Cough* Zao*cough*Yue*cough*Jet*cough*
| bag2218 wrote: | ||
***SPOILER*** |
| amdragfreak wrote: |
| I actually think I have a decent argument on why Ozai and Azula need to die. The threat will never be over until the two are dead. You say that the Fire Nation would be angry that the Avatar killed them, but wouldn't they be just as angry at the fact that they are rotting the rest of their lives in prison. They could start a mob or whatever to try to assassinate Zuko and/or Iroh. And even without his bending, Ozai can still escape, just like Iroh did, seeing as Ozai is just as powerful (if not more) than Iroh. They could both escape and join that mob. You could say that they could be taken to The Boiling Rock, but once again, escape is not impossible. The threat will never truly be gone as long as Ozai and Azula are alive. |
