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UPDATE 5/3/06: Dark Avatar Theory v5.5

  • Avatar of Gantros

    Gantros

    [1]Jun 10, 2006
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    UPDATE 7/3/06: After some discussion, these are some of the answers that have come up.

    1.) The Dark Avatar Spirit represents nearly pure Negative Chi, or Yin. Therefore Aang's Avatar Spirit represents nearly pure Positive Chi, or Yang. For the definitions of Yin and Yang, see this link for wikipedia.org. How would you decide this splitting to have originated, how would this have affected the personalities of their reincarnations,??and how in the series would this balance be restored eventually?

    While the origin is still under discussion, for this version I've decided that the origin of the Dark Avatar Spirit is the same as the Light Avatar Spirit.??Basically, the Avatar Spirit was the result of a kind of peace agreement between the patron Spirits of the 4 Nations, which before the Avatar's creation lived in constant warfare ("Cave of.Two Lovers"). Unfortunately, they could not instill everything into a single person, so they split it into two parts, one Positive Chi, the other Negative Chi. While the Avatar of Light was much beloved of the people and sought peaceful and long lasting solutions to the conflicts, the Dark Avatar sought to undo and create chaos, something that the Spirits had sought to end. War and chaos reigned as the Dark Avatar brought??the worst of humanity??back to the world with each reincarnation, the best the Light Avatar could do was to put out the??conflicts as they appeared, but it was an unending, grinding battle. Eventually, tapping into the pure Chi essences revealed new forms of bending that eventually did as much damage to the bender as it did the opponent. The Balance was at risk of coming undone and humanity was on the road toward self-destruction. The Spirits decided to remove the Avatar Spirit's darker half and??cast it from the world, imprisoning it in a prison made up of all four elements. This comet eventually slowed and began a spiral back toward the world, a journey that would take tens of thousands of years.

    2.) In order to up the ante, so to speak, the Dark Avatar would have to have a unique form of bending to set??itself above other benders and Aang himself initially, hence Shadowbending. I believe the real world martial art this could be based on is Tien Shan Pai, the description of which can be found at this link on wikipedia.org.

    As for Aang, he should learn the??opposite form of bending which does not outclass Shadowbending, but merely cancels it out, Lightbending. Lightbending could be based on the real world martial art of WingTsun, the description of which can be found at this link, from wikipedia.org.

    The question is how should these artforms be visualized? Should shadowbending be like, for example, like Teen Titan's Ravens powers? Could lightbending be like??typical anime energy attacks (like Ryoko from Tenchi or the various characters from Dragonball)? Another question is how should the Dark Avatar spread the art of Shadowbending to other benders? Would it be taught or merely a??fragment/seed??of its spirit, with all the skill built in? Would defeating a shadowbender free them from the fragment's influence? How would it affect their native elements?

    This part of the theory is still under discussion.

    3.) Finally, how would the Dark Avatar be introduced after Season 3? I have stated that it should be imprisoned in Sozen's Comet and that it should possess someone defeated by Aang in the past and would be willing to give up their will for the power of the Dark Avatar. I feel Azula is a prime candidate for this purpose, especially if she is defeated by the end of Season 3, preferably by Zuko via Agni Kai.

    Azula has proven to be a primary candidate as the new Dark Avatar. As the Dark Avatar Spirit is??not truly??evil, it's power would make Azula a force to be reckoned with. It also seems appropriate to have Azula be scarred via Agni Kai by Zuko, an ironic twist.

    Edited on 07/03/2006 12:53pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of MCMLXVI

    MCMLXVI

    [2]Jun 11, 2006
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    I am having a tough time imagining how different Aang (and future avatars) would be after merging with the dark spirit.
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  • Avatar of Sasahara

    Sasahara

    [3]Jun 11, 2006
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    Where did you get this idea for a Dark Avatar?
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  • Avatar of Gantros

    Gantros

    [4]Jun 11, 2006
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    MCMLXVI wrote:
    I am having a tough time imagining how different Aang (and future avatars) would be after merging with the dark spirit.


    TBH, I don't know either, but Aang would have a deeper understanding of humanity, taking in the good and the bad parts that make up humanity within him.
    Have you EVER seen Aang lash out in rage or hatred? The Avatar State is defensive and while it is very destructive, Aang doesn't go out of his way to injure or kill someone. The only exception to this was when he merged with the Ocean Spirit, but I think that was because the Ocean Spirit, who is more like Yin rather than Yang, was in control.
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    FireandIce1400

    [5]Jun 11, 2006
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    Did you make this up or get it from somewhere?
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  • Avatar of Gantros

    Gantros

    [6]Jun 11, 2006
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    FireandIce1400 wrote:
    Did you make this up or get it from somewhere?


    I've been working on this DA Theory for several months, so I made this, although I can't say anyone else hasn't come to the same idea.
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  • Avatar of Gantros

    Gantros

    [7]Jun 11, 2006
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    Sasahara wrote:
    Where did you get this idea for a Dark Avatar?


    I noticed several bits of information from the series that when put together suggest there is something bigger than merely the Fire Nation wanting to take over the world. Here's some of what I had seen in the series:

    1.) In the introduction, Katara states that the Four Nations lived together in harmony long ago. Then, everything changed when the Fire Nation attacked.

    2.) In "Avatar Roku", Roku explains to Aang that the Firelord must be defeated by the end of summer before the Comet's return. This suggests that the Comet is a greater threat than the Firelord. Roku may even be downplaying the true danger of the Comet to give Aang a more achievable goal. We all saw how panicked he was in the beginning of "The Waterbending Scroll". Imagine how he would be if Roku told him he must prevent the seal on the Comet from being broken, to keep the personification of the worst in humanity from escaping.

    3.) The utter lack of concern for upsetting the stability of the world suggests that someone or something has a grudge with Spirits or feels threatened by them. The Spirits seem to have a policy of noninterference for the most part, so I would say someone had a grudge. I believe that the Spirits aided in the sealing of the Dark Avatar Spirit in the Comet and sending it into the void, so revenge is the order of the day.

    4.) In "Bitter Work", Iroh explains the nature of Chi, how it will always try to balance itself. I believe that since the Dark Avatar was sealed, the world has been living in a positve Chi imbalance. The Dark Avatar's return will result in a massive backlash (war) of negative Chi that at the end of which will result in true balance being restored.
    Edited on 06/11/2006 7:18am
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  • Avatar of the_yssa

    the_yssa

    [8]Jun 11, 2006
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    This is all cool and everything...but how many threads will made on this topic! I mean, what happened with 2.0 and 3.0 and stuff like that!
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    animekitsune

    [9]Jun 11, 2006
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    Who knows??? But about shadowbending, I told you before that perhaps shadowbenders could use a living thing as a puppet.????They??only used??dangerous animals, though.?? If they used a human,??the person would just become shadowbenders themselves.?? In the dream I had (I get a lot of my ideas form dreams, lol) many of them rode komodo-horses, similar to the lizards Azula, Mai, and Ti-Li?? were riding.?? Only with sharper teeth and big spiky tails.
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    FireandIce1400

    [10]Jun 11, 2006
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    How would shadowbending work?
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  • Avatar of piranhapete

    piranhapete

    [11]Jun 11, 2006
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    FireandIce1400 wrote:
    How would shadowbending work?


    I think that wherever there is an amount of darkness, the bender could take it as make it and move it as if it was a solid energy. It would be most powerful at night, as there is a lot of darkness at night.
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  • Avatar of FireandIce1400

    FireandIce1400

    [12]Jun 11, 2006
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    piranhapete wrote:
    FireandIce1400 wrote:
    How would shadowbending work?


    I think that wherever there is an amount of darkness, the bender could take it as make it and move it as if it was a solid energy. It would be most powerful at night, as there is a lot of darkness at night.

    So like waterbending.
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  • Avatar of Hvulpes

    Hvulpes

    [13]Jun 11, 2006
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    I really disagree with the Shadow/Light bending idea. The ideas that seems to be proven in the series is that the Bending styles are all equal. Each one can be used for good or evil, neither one is better or worse than the other. It is the skills of the user and certain outside factors that determines who wins a battle.??Shadow/Light bending as you state it seems to say that one style is pure good and the other is pure evil. That doesn't seem to fit with the other bending styles.

    ??It seems to me that it would less be a new version of bending, but rather an new way to look at current bending practices. The ideas that the Dark Avatar seems to be promoting is that of superiority, rather than that of equality that the Avatar promotes. (Think about Zhao's speech in "The Blue Spirit" compared to the lecture given by Iroh in "Bitter Work").

    ??I see the Dark Avatar giving a boost in the power of Bending of others, giving them a false??sense of their own superiority. As their ego grows with the feedback of their own increased??power, they reject the Avatar's wisdom of equality and balance with nature. It could be that the Dark Avatar would preach to the benders that their element is the best, and that if they can work with the inferior other elements that follow the Dark Avatar, they would gain control of the new world that Dark Avatar is creating. As they people give in to the idea of the superiority of their element/people, the Dark Avatar gains a link to their soul which is hard to break.

    ??I can see the Dark Avatar trying to influence each country with this docturne. Chin could have started his control of the Earth Kingdom as part of a plan for world domination and superiority of the Earth Element. Only to be accidentlt stopped by Kyoshi. (Avatar Day) I can see this occuring in all four counties with Water, Earth and Fire listening to it from time to time. The Air Nomads don't seem to be the type to follow a world domination type, I see them locking up these characters as unbalanced.

    Just an alterntive idea I had to the Shadow/Lightbeing as that didn't make much sense to me from what the show has gone so far.

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  • Avatar of MCMLXVI

    MCMLXVI

    [14]Jun 11, 2006
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    MCMLXVI wrote:
    I am having a tough time imagining how different Aang (and future avatars) would be after merging with the dark spirit.
    Gantros wrote:
    [To Be Honest], I don't know either, but Aang would have a deeper understanding of humanity, taking in the good and the bad parts that make up humanity within him.

    Have you EVER seen Aang lash out in rage or hatred? The Avatar State is defensive and while it is very destructive, Aang doesn't go out of his way to injure or kill someone...
    So you'd like to see the avatar consider lashing out in rage or hatred? or to go out of his way to harm or damage? I'm inclined believe Avatar Kyoshi considered the ramifications of forcibly breaking off from the mainland, as depicted in Avatar Day, so an avatar can consider the drawbacks (without the additional help of a dark spirit).
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  • Avatar of Gantros

    Gantros

    [15]Jun 11, 2006
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    the_yssa wrote:
    This is all cool and everything...but how many threads will made on this topic! I mean, what happened with 2.0 and 3.0 and stuff like that!


    After about 100 or so posts, the discussion typically moves away from the original topic post, and a lot of new ideas are developed in the process. I ask pooldude for permission to start a new thread to incorporate the theory into a new revision. Otherwise, I just edit the topic post.
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  • Avatar of Gantros

    Gantros

    [16]Jun 11, 2006
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    piranhapete wrote:
    FireandIce1400 wrote:
    How would shadowbending work?


    I think that wherever there is an amount of darkness, the bender could take it as make it and move it as if it was a solid energy. It would be most powerful at night, as there is a lot of darkness at night.


    That's actually very accurate, but Shadowbending would be limited to mainly cast shadows, like their own during the day. At night, it is actually more difficult to bend shadows, like lifting a mountain rather than a boulder, the larger the natural shadow, the harder it is to manipulate. However, they can hide underneath the shadows like a blanket for stealth.

    So while they couldn't lift the shadow off a valley during a new moon and say, make a giant fist with it, they could hide under it to move undetected into an enemy compound and use the shadows cast by the guards holding or standing near torches as weapons or defensive objects like walls or entangling ribbons, for example.

    Other abilities would be mainly illusions, like appearing to have copies of oneself (a la Naruto), or manipulating shadows to redirect other elemental and physical attacks.

    As for the other posts, please read the description of Yin Yang on wikipedia.com

    The key is to try and think in an abstract way
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  • Avatar of animekitsune

    animekitsune

    [17]Jun 11, 2006
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    Gantros wrote:
    piranhapete wrote:
    FireandIce1400 wrote:
    How would shadowbending work?
    I think that wherever there is an amount of darkness, the bender could take it as make it and move it as if it was a solid energy. It would be most powerful at night, as there is a lot of darkness at night.
    That's actually very accurate, but Shadowbending would be limited to mainly cast shadows, like their own during the day. At night, it is actually more difficult to bend shadows, like lifting a mountain rather than a boulder, the larger the natural shadow, the harder it is to manipulate. However, they can hide underneath the shadows like a blanket for stealth. So while they couldn't lift the shadow off a valley during a new moon and say, make a giant fist with it, they could hide under it to move undetected into an enemy compound and use the shadows cast by the guards holding or standing near torches as weapons or defensive objects like walls or entangling ribbons, for example. Other abilities would be mainly illusions, like appearing to have copies of oneself (a la Naruto), or manipulating shadows to redirect other elemental and physical attacks. As for the other posts, please read the description of Yin Yang on wikipedia.com The key is to try and think in an abstract way

    Hmm... makes sense. *nods*?? But what is the basic idea of shadowbending??? That was probably very vauge, but let me clarify.?? Is it a stealth-agression ninja sequence??? Or more of a trick-manipulate-annilate style?

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  • Avatar of Gantros

    Gantros

    [18]Jun 11, 2006
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    I think it's rather flexible. THe point is that Shadowbending, and by extension Lightbending, are not really all that powerful, just different. Shadowbending relies on seeming more powerful than it really is. If a shadowbender was alone and only had the use of his own shadow to manipulate, with no surrounding shadows to hide in to misdirect his opponent, he wouldn't stand a chance against any element bender. However, if that same shadowbender, and three identically dressed/masked companions made it appear that only one person was involved, would seem more powerful than element benders. People who seek power would be drawn to it and after being given the power, wouldn't even be aware that the power is itself, an illusion. Only the most skilled shadowbender could be powerful enough to utterly outclass other benders in "fair" combat without any smoke and mirrors, and that is only reserved for the Dark Avatar itself, who draws on the vast resevoir of negative Chi to draw upon in lieu of natural shadows.

    Lightbending is pure and simple the ultimate equalizer. It cannot truly defeat any discipline, only render it neutral. For example, say a lightbender is under attack by an earthbender. By manipulating and concentrating the light, he can shatter a flying boulder or block it with a shield. But using the light on the bender itself would not do any harm, at most temporarily blinding the opponent, like a built in safety preventing direct harm to living things. The end result is that the earthbender would realize that while the lightbender may be incapable of decisively winning, he cannot lose either, so the earthbender realizes the futility of fighting at all, rendering himself neutral.
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  • Avatar of Gantros

    Gantros

    [19]Jun 12, 2006
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    hvulpes wrote:
    I really disagree with the Shadow/Light bending idea. The ideas that seems to be proven in the series is that the Bending styles are all equal. Each one can be used for good or evil, neither one is better or worse than the other. It is the skills of the user and certain outside factors that determines who wins a battle.??Shadow/Light bending as you state it seems to say that one style is pure good and the other is pure evil. That doesn't seem to fit with the other bending styles...

    Neither form is good or evil, they are the result of directly manipulating positve and negative Chi without the use of a elemental medium as a buffer for the raw energies. What makes them inherently good or evil is that running such pure energies through your body effects the "heart" or Spirit. Prolonged exposure to negative Chi corrupts the user's spirit, making them prone to evil ACTIONS, but they themselves are not evil. Prolonged exposure to positive Chi puts the user's spirit in a state of contentment, making them pacifists, I suppose. The point is that Shadow and Lightbenders, save for the Avatar Spirits who have the balance of the other elements to keep themselves from becoming pure evil or pure good (see Yin Yang on wikipedia), anyone who uses Shadow or Lightbending is doomed to losing their mind, essentially, in exchange for the brief illusion of great power.

    hvulpes wrote:
    ??I see the Dark Avatar giving a boost in the power of Bending of others, giving them a false??sense of their own superiority. As their ego grows with the feedback of their own increased??power, they reject the Avatar's wisdom of equality and balance with nature. It could be that the Dark Avatar would preach to the benders that their element is the best, and that if they can work with the inferior other elements that follow the Dark Avatar, they would gain control of the new world that Dark Avatar is creating. As they people give in to the idea of the superiority of their element/people, the Dark Avatar gains a link to their soul which is hard to break.

    This is very accurate. The Dark Avatar maniplates the negative Chi in dark(not evil, no one is truly evil)??hearts to his will.

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    Morlock19

    [20]Jun 12, 2006
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    i feel that all of this is suspect. the avatar is supposed to *be* the balance of energy in the world. he balances the spirit and material world, the four nations... there is no reason to have a "dark avatar." if nothing else, THEY would just fight all the time, with no avail (see any justice league episode, or super hero comic).

    theres no reason to think that anything is actually trapped in the comet, the comet is what gives the firebenders their power, like another sun. if there was true balence, there much be something that gives the other three bending arts power also.

    shadow bending? guh fuh?

    unless they actually pulled it off in some awsome spetacular way, then an "anti-avatar" would be what makes the show jump the shark. that or sokka learning how to waterbend.
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