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The Real Truth of Azulon's Death (major potential spoiler)

  • Avatar of Shard2005

    Shard2005

    [41]Oct 4, 2006
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    Ozai seems like the scheming type. Also, he's voiced by Mark Hamill using his evil voice. Whenever Mark uses that voice, his character is usually very evil and psycotic (i.e. Joker, Hobgoblin, Green Goblin, etc.)

    I don't think he's beyond murder, and I think he had things in place, and people to back him up. Everything ready to take the throne. Iroh was emotionally destraught and in no condition to take the throne. I'm sure that Ozai was not beyond having his own brother killed, just in case he wasn't killed in battle. It wouldn't suprise me if he was behind Lu Ten's death! And I'm SURE he killed his father, Azulon. There was too many coincedences for me.
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  • Avatar of ilovenzw

    ilovenzw

    [42]Nov 14, 2006
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    Doesn't anyone think Ursa killed Azulon? I like all the other speculations, they opened up my mind to all the possibilities, but still doesn't anyone think that Ursa had the little chat with Azula, confronted Ozai about it, and in the dead of night killed Azulon therefore making her run away? Plus also why would Ozai want to kill besides the fact he would get to be Fire Lord faster, but that would also mean that Zuko wouldn't get killed, and we know from assortment of things in Zuko Alone that Ozai didn't favor his son, and really didn't care? Just an idea, I just wanted to see if I'm insane or if anyone actually agrees with me?
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  • Avatar of SifuKatara

    SifuKatara

    [43]Nov 14, 2006
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    i do very much zw
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  • Avatar of Bluefiremaster

    Bluefiremaster

    [44]Nov 19, 2006
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    I think Ursa went to Oazi and asked him if Azulon told him to do this and he says yes so at night she either stabs him, chokes him or poisons him cause if she was a firebender they would have seen the fire burns on his body and she realized she had to escape cause someone would find out. If she stabbed him maybe she used Zukos knife and ran past Azulas room and threw it in there to get rid of the evidense then she went to Zuko said good-bye and got on a boat and fled to the Earth Kingdom.
    Edited on 11/19/2006 7:48pm
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  • Avatar of Bluefiremaster

    Bluefiremaster

    [45]Nov 19, 2006
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    Good theroy
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  • Avatar of ChibiMaddiChan

    ChibiMaddiChan

    [46]Dec 1, 2006
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    ilovenzw wrote:
    Doesn't anyone think Ursa killed Azulon? I like all the other speculations, they opened up my mind to all the possibilities, but still doesn't anyone think that Ursa had the little chat with Azula, confronted Ozai about it, and in the dead of night killed Azulon therefore making her run away? Plus also why would Ozai want to kill besides the fact he would get to be Fire Lord faster, but that would also mean that Zuko wouldn't get killed, and we know from assortment of things in Zuko Alone that Ozai didn't favor his son, and really didn't care? Just an idea, I just wanted to see if I'm insane or if anyone actually agrees with me?


    I'm right there with you. There are so many hints that Ursa probably did it, that it's kinda sad. There are just things you have to take into account:
    The entire "mother's bite back" thing. I just find that it was convenant given the premise of the episode and what happened.
    I don't buy the entire 'natural cause' thing, given that Ursa made it a point when speaking with Azula that Azulon was in perfectly good health. Azula's lie and the fact that they showed that even then, Ozai seemed to dislike Zuko plays a major role in all of this: it's obvious that Azula lied, it just depends on what degree. Azulon said that he wanted Ozai to feel the lost of his first born...but we all know that Zuko being sacrified would more than likely not make too much of a difference to Ozai. But as we know, it would have to Ursa. So despite her respect and obvious love for the Firelord, her obligation to protect her son came first and she did what she had to do in order to protect him. But then, that leaves Azula's lie: was the firelord really going to kill Zuko...or maybe he was going after her instead, given that she's (so obviously) favored by Ozai? If Ozai did kill his father, then the only reason had to be for the throne unless Azulon threatened to take out Azula. And if Ursa simply ran away, then why did she pause when talking to Zuko and looked frightened when she heard what sounded like the approaching of soldiers? She did nothing wrong, why should she need to run unless someone framed her?
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  • Avatar of tico1125

    tico1125

    [47]Dec 1, 2006
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    Eman5805 wrote:

    The clue came when Azula said in a soft voice that Azulon passed away, now why would she say he's passed away like that? That got me thinking...what's a way for someone to pass away suddenly when you're an old man? Heart attack. Here's what I think happend:

    After Azula came to Zuko saying "Dad's going to kill you." Ursa questioned Azula and learned what happened after she left. Ursa rushes to Azulon, and pleads that Azulon doesn't banish Zuko(that's how Zuko would be sacrificed), but his decision was final. So, she saves her baby the only way a mother can, she bites him back. She challenges Azulon to Agni Kai, if she wins, Zuko doesn't get banished and Ozai is to suceed Azulon as Fire Lord, but if she loses, she'd be banished instead of Zuko and Iroh would still be next in line. Azulon even despite being older is more powerful than Ursa, but the strain of the battle is too much for Azulon's aging heart. But,(this is key to my whole theory) Agni Kai's are by law non-lethal events. If the other combatant is killed in battle by the other(directly or indirectly in this case) the "winner" is banished.

    I originally had this in Spoilers & Speculation, but I want honest response on this and this seemed worthy of a seperate thread.


    This is an outstanding theory.?? It is a huge possibility.?? I also like some of the ones in regards to Azai killing his father and Ursa catching him too.?? I find myself crossed between both of them.?? Good thinking all of you.


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  • Avatar of PhoenixAngel37

    PhoenixAngel37

    [48]Dec 1, 2006
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    Eman5805 wrote:

    The clue came when Azula said in a soft voice that Azulon passed away, now why would she say he's passed away like that? That got me thinking...what's a way for someone to pass away suddenly when you're an old man? Heart attack. Here's what I think happend:

    After Azula came to Zuko saying "Dad's going to kill you." Ursa questioned Azula and learned what happened after she left. Ursa rushes to Azulon, and pleads that Azulon doesn't banish Zuko(that's how Zuko would be sacrificed), but his decision was final. So, she saves her baby the only way a mother can, she bites him back. She challenges Azulon to Agni Kai, if she wins, Zuko doesn't get banished and Ozai is to??suceed Azulon as??Fire Lord, but if she loses, she'd be banished instead of Zuko and Iroh would still be next in line. Azulon even despite being older is more powerful than Ursa, but the strain of the battle is too much for Azulon's aging heart. But,(this is key to my whole theory) Agni Kai's are by law non-lethal events. If the other combatant is killed in battle by the other(directly or indirectly in this case) the??"winner"??is banished.

    I originally had this in Spoilers & Speculation, but I want honest response on this and this seemed worthy of a seperate thread.
    i think that also wat happened..i wonder what side Ozai took in the battle b/w his wife and his father??? Another question on love and honor or one's duty in a royal family? hey someone should start a thread on love and honor in Avatar...kinda is the central theme b/w the battles
    Edited on 12/01/2006 1:30pm
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  • Avatar of Herald_Galactus

    Herald_Galactus

    [49]Dec 1, 2006
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    I agree with the idea of Ursa killing FireLord Azula in order to save Zuko from his father's outburst, and turned herself in under the conditions that Ozai becomes the firelord and she says good bye to Zuko.

    The whole turtle-duck incident painted us a picture of what happened behind the scenes. The mom struck to save her children. but I think in orde to save face and royal uproar she turned herself in to be secretly executed for her crime.
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  • Avatar of PhoenixAngel37

    PhoenixAngel37

    [50]Dec 1, 2006
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    do u think that Ursa may come back ...b/c we dont know that she is dead nor that she is alive...however that will be a good twist..
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  • Avatar of tico1125

    tico1125

    [51]Dec 1, 2006
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    It is a huge possibility that she is going to come back.?? The reason why I say that is because of the Earth King episode.?? Zuko dreamed of his mother calling out to him.?? In this show it is safe to assume that the meanings of a character's dreams are a gateway into the future and past.

    Think about all the dreams Aang had.
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  • Avatar of PhoenixAngel37

    PhoenixAngel37

    [52]Dec 1, 2006
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    omg, i cant wait!! i agree with the dreams have meanings into the future and past.
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  • Avatar of mblizzow

    mblizzow

    [53]Dec 1, 2006
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    i am pretty sure that zuko's dreams are the key into his subscience, and it is telling him what he wants, fears and knows.
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  • Avatar of tico1125

    tico1125

    [54]Dec 1, 2006
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    mblizzow wrote:
    i am pretty sure that zuko's dreams are the key into his subscience, and it is telling him what he wants, fears and knows.

    That's possibly too but we will not know until it is revealed.??
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  • Avatar of UndyingFlame

    UndyingFlame

    [55]Dec 1, 2006
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    It's possible Ursa is dead. Remember Zuko's dream, where Azula (the??blue dragon) said "Sleep...just like mother!" By sleep she possibly meant death. I think this dream also troubled Zuko because he wasn't able to help his mother, as in the dream we see his mother going "Zuko...help me!", then the pained look on Zuko's face as he's sleeping. (Sorta like what happened to Sokka, like when he told Suki "Something happened where I couldn't protect someone," obviously his mother.)??And in the preview for the finale, Katara is crying about losing her mother to the Fire Nation, and Zuko says "That's something we have in common." Meaning, Zuko lost his mother to the Fire Nation, which possibly could be Ozai (I still think this theory is possible that he murdered Azulon, then murdered Ursa, fearing she would snitch.)
    Edited on 12/01/2006 2:26pm
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  • Avatar of tico1125

    tico1125

    [56]Dec 1, 2006
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    UndyingFlame wrote:
    It's possible Ursa is dead. Remember Zuko's dream, where Azula (the red dragon) said "Sleep...just like mother!" By sleep she possibly meant death. I think this dream also troubled Zuko because he wasn't able to help his mother, as in the dream we see his mother going "Zuko...help me!", then the pained look on Zuko's face as he's sleeping. (Sorta like what happened to Sokka, like when he told Suki "Something happened where I couldn't protect someone," obviously his mother.) And in the preview for the finale, Katara is crying about losing her mother to the Fire Nation, and Zuko says "That's something we have in common." Meaning, Zuko lost his mother to the Fire Nation, which possibly could be Ozai (I still think this theory is possible that he murdered Azulon, then murdered Ursa, fearing she would snitch.)

    Another good theory.??
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  • Avatar of tico1125

    tico1125

    [57]Dec 14, 2006
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    Eman5805 wrote:

    The clue came when Azula said in a soft voice that Azulon passed away, now why would she say he's passed away like that? That got me thinking...what's a way for someone to pass away suddenly when you're an old man? Heart attack. Here's what I think happend:

    After Azula came to Zuko saying "Dad's going to kill you." Ursa questioned Azula and learned what happened after she left. Ursa rushes to Azulon, and pleads that Azulon doesn't banish Zuko(that's how Zuko would be sacrificed), but his decision was final. So, she saves her baby the only way a mother can, she bites him back. She challenges Azulon to Agni Kai, if she wins, Zuko doesn't get banished and Ozai is to suceed Azulon as Fire Lord, but if she loses, she'd be banished instead of Zuko and Iroh would still be next in line. Azulon even despite being older is more powerful than Ursa, but the strain of the battle is too much for Azulon's aging heart. But,(this is key to my whole theory) Agni Kai's are by law non-lethal events. If the other combatant is killed in battle by the other(directly or indirectly in this case) the "winner" is banished.

    I originally had this in Spoilers & Speculation, but I want honest response on this and this seemed worthy of a seperate thread.

    To further elaborate on this theory here is some more background theory that I had recently:

    If Ursa is still alive then it is further possible that she is the
    best firebender in the world. Now it also would be a huge twist on the
    story if Uncle Iroh knows about Ursa being alive and has been with Zuko on this journey to make him in to the beautiful prince that he was
    meant to be (taken from the Earth King episode). Zuko's mom seemed
    close to Iroh so it is possible that she asked him to bring Zuko up as
    a different man than Ozai and his father. She might have figured that
    since he became enlightened from his son's death and his trip to the
    spirit world (Still needs to be explained.)

    Now here is a different theory to go along with her being a very powerful bender. In the opening credits people think that the fire bender is Azula. Also in theory people think that the benders shown are supposed to be the masters that teach Aang. If that is the case then it is possible that the firebender could be Ursa not Azula. It could be that in the next season Iroh reveals Ursa to Zuko as being alive. They find her and join Aang.

    Sure this all sounds like very way out in left field but I think it might be possible. How much of Iroh's past do we know? Not much. How much of Zuko's do we know? Some but there is still the one seen where they show him on a hill and an adult male has his arm around him. They do not reveal who that is. It could be Iroh when Zuko was banished. He might have talked to Ursa and that is when she asked him to be with Zuko. If you remember, Iroh was a retired general. He was never banished. He became a traitor when he fought Azula in the Avatar State. So from the first episode in book one they never explained really why Iroh was with Zuko other than he thinks of Zuko as the replacement of his lost son.
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  • Avatar of blazerperry29

    blazerperry29

    [58]Dec 14, 2006
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    tico1125 wrote:
    Eman5805 wrote:

    The clue came when Azula said in a soft voice that Azulon passed away, now why would she say he's passed away like that? That got me thinking...what's a way for someone to pass away suddenly when you're an old man? Heart attack. Here's what I think happend:

    After Azula came to Zuko saying "Dad's going to kill you." Ursa questioned Azula and learned what happened after she left. Ursa rushes to Azulon, and pleads that Azulon doesn't banish Zuko(that's how Zuko would be sacrificed), but his decision was final. So, she saves her baby the only way a mother can, she bites him back. She challenges Azulon to Agni Kai, if she wins, Zuko doesn't get banished and Ozai is to suceed Azulon as Fire Lord, but if she loses, she'd be banished instead of Zuko and Iroh would still be next in line. Azulon even despite being older is more powerful than Ursa, but the strain of the battle is too much for Azulon's aging heart. But,(this is key to my whole theory) Agni Kai's are by law non-lethal events. If the other combatant is killed in battle by the other(directly or indirectly in this case) the "winner" is banished.

    I originally had this in Spoilers & Speculation, but I want honest response on this and this seemed worthy of a seperate thread.

    To further elaborate on this theory here is some more background theory that I had recently:

    If Ursa is still alive then it is further possible that she is the best firebender in the world. Now it also would be a huge twist on the story if Uncle Iroh knows about Ursa being alive and has been with Zuko on this journey to make him in to the beautiful prince that he was meant to be (taken from the Earth King episode). Zuko's mom seemed close to Iroh so it is possible that she asked him to bring Zuko up as a different man than Ozai and his father. She might have figured that since he became enlightened from his son's death and his trip to the spirit world (Still needs to be explained.)

    Now here is a different theory to go along with her being a very powerful bender. In the opening credits people think that the fire bender is Azula. Also in theory people think that the benders shown are supposed to be the masters that teach Aang. If that is the case then it is possible that the firebender could be Ursa not Azula. It could be that in the next season Iroh reveals Ursa to Zuko as being alive. They find her and join Aang.

    Sure this all sounds like very way out in left field but I think it might be possible. How much of Iroh's past do we know? Not much. How much of Zuko's do we know? Some but there is still the one seen where they show him on a hill and an adult male has his arm around him. They do not reveal who that is. It could be Iroh when Zuko was banished. He might have talked to Ursa and that is when she asked him to be with Zuko. If you remember, Iroh was a retired general. He was never banished. He became a traitor when he fought Azula in the Avatar State. So from the first episode in book one they never explained really why Iroh was with Zuko other than he thinks of Zuko as the replacement of his lost son.

    geez, everyone stop coming up with such awesome theories, because i have a feeling the avatar writers are reading these and making sure to NOT??go with one that you've thought of. that's what they did with XR of destiny anyway, and they might still be in that kind of plot-twisting mood.

    i'm kidding, but you never know...

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  • Avatar of blazerperry29

    blazerperry29

    [59]Dec 14, 2006
    • member since: 10/18/06
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    here's another possiblilty ... what if zuko finds his mother, but she's not the way he remembers her? it's conceivable that after having such a miserable??adolescence, his brain enhanced and glorified childhood memories to keep him determined and give him hope. imagine if you were a circus custodian who cleaned after elephants. sucks, right? but??then your country was invaded and you became an enslaved prisoner. as you performed back-breaking labor in the fields, you would look back on your poop-scooping days as days in paradise. that's zuko. maybe his mother in reality isn't as kind and loving as in his flashbacks.

    zuko would find out that ursa didn't really love him, but instead wanted to use him as a puppet so she could use their bond to rule the FN through zuko, which was why she was so nice to him. realizing the one person in his life who loved him was just as cruel as azula would increase zuko's inner despair and sever all his ties to the fire nation. then he'll be like "oh, no! uncle was the one who really cared abouut me, and i betrayed him!" so he'll go on a mission to seek out the gaang and save iroh. first he'll have to fight his mother, which he either wins because he's now an extremely powerful firebender or he'd simply escape, which would give him another reason to look for the gaang.??

    this would support the idea that ursa kills azulon, only here it would be for her own purposes, not for zuko's. she wouldn't want iroh to take the throne because it would keep zuko away from the throne. so her whole plan is to bide her time and get zuko to the throne by quietly killing azulon, and later, ozai.

    however, ozai catches her killing azulon, so he tries to arrest her to make him appear supportive of his father. in that last scene when she bids zuko farewell, afterward, she disguises herself and sneaks out of the palace. there'd be no need for ozai to look for her because she wouldn't be able to get any FN support.

    i'll add to this later, but i'm impatient to see how you guys react to my Evil Ursa theory. btw, i don't necessarily believe this, it's just another perspective to look at.

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  • Avatar of andreitayehp

    andreitayehp

    [60]Dec 14, 2006
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    Well, it's a good one, but zuko is alredy quite unhappy without an evil mother, I think she was a bender, in nick.com it says about a FL (I don't remember which one) He is a very powerful firemaster, as every FL And Marriages in royalty are almost always arranged, so they ensure that each wife or husband must be first level benders. I don't think she is evil , because she would have been nicer with Azula, I mean, FN, as the most advanced, is not chauvinist as Watertribes, remember, in the blue spirit, Zhao said, in a speech, talking with the army: "Brothers and sisters from the FN....! And Fn people has a lot more respect toward Azula than Zuko, so they would be able to acept her as firelady. If Ursa wanted the power, it wouldn't care if Zuko died, cause there's still Azula, but she was pretty strict to her. She's alive, Zuko's fervish dreams were predictions, all we know it because of the dragons part. Azula is the guilty: Sleep, just as your mother, really meaned, get away and leave the power to me! I'm agree with that teory that said Azula lied, Ursa killed Azulon, then realiced there was no need to do it, maybe Azula treatened to tell all that to his father if she didn't leave, but I think Azula is being controled for those two crones, so that's the reason that ursa wondered what was grong with her, she had changed, so she is in the inner side, weak.??
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