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The Real Truth of Azulon's Death (major potential spoiler)

  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [22]Sep 27, 2006
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    fieryknight43 wrote:
    fredfredburgerk wrote:

    I can't believe you guys can not see that Ozai killed Azulon and Ursa. He is just a meanie. Whaaaaa!

    Okay. Ozai originally would just kill Azulon, but he knew his wife would be smart enogh to notice that #1 Azulon wouldn't just die, and#2, She might've kept him from being fire Lord so Iroh would get back in time to take his rightful place as fire Lord.
    Thank you! Someone who understands! Seriously, think about it. In that episode Ursa was shown to be kind and strong, and supportive of Azulon, who seemed to be less corrupted, and more honorable than OZai. That's why he wanted Iroh as the new fire lord. Azula supports her father in everything, and obviously adores death, blood, destruction, and all that "good" stuff. Ozai killing Azulon is a given. However, if you remember in the episode, Azulon asked Ozai to lose his only son and see how he felt. Thing is, Ozai doesn't like Zuko, so he would have no problem killing the boy. Ursa on the other hand,loves Zuko to death, and would not allow that so when she heard Azula saying that Zuko's father was going to kill him, she went to find out herself. And when she found out it was true, made a decision to have him kill her instead. So, she wakes up her son, tells him that she does everything to protect him and runs back to her husband, or in this case her death. Ozai may not like Zuko, but because of Iroh's return, he wouldn't want to bring his son to a hasty death. It would be too suspicious. Now about Azula, as I said, she completely supports her father. She thought her grandfather was weak, and thought Iroh was pathetic. So, she happily watched Ozai kill Azulon, and her mother as well. She wouldn't tell the truth because of the great admiration for her father, and she wouldn't want things to look bad for them, now would she? And that is my theory...long, but makes sense right?

    Perhaps...but I also kept in mind that this is a show intended for a younger audience...I mean a Nick show where a man kills his own father and wife? that's a lil too mature...now an old man dying cuz of the strain of a fight isn't quite??as graphic as being killed by his own son(who then kills his wife)...what you said could happen too...but I gotta give my counter ya know

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  • Avatar of Shard2005

    Shard2005

    [23]Sep 27, 2006
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    They kill all the time in cartoons, they just don't show it as much. (Ever seen Gundam Seed, Inuyasha, or even Batman and Justice League for that matter!)And remember, Avatar has it's roots in anime. I really do think Ozai killed his father. I doubt he killed Ursa though.
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  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [24]Sep 27, 2006
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    Shard2005 wrote:
    They kill all the time in cartoons, they just don't show it as much. (Ever seen Gundam Seed, Inuyasha, or even Batman and Justice League for that matter!)And remember, Avatar has it's roots in anime. I really do think Ozai killed his father. I doubt he killed Ursa though.

    I'm fully aware of death in cartoons...I'll never forget in Gargoyles years ago I saw Demona turn all the humans in New York into stone...then proceed to walk around town blasting their statues into rubble with her laser gun, instantly killing them...but there are certain things we just don't see in american cartoons...and a man killing his wife is just unprecendented(as far as I can remember)...and if Avatar goes there I'll be shocked outta this world...I??could also??see Ozai killing Azulon(maybe), but his own wife? that's a whole other level...I can't dispell any theory since there's just not alot of evidence...so for now I'm stickin to my original theory

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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [25]Sep 28, 2006
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    The theories are nice, but I???m not a guessing person and the only thing I'm keeping bets on are:

    1. Regicide (I love that word!): Ozai murdered azulon, be it however complicated the events were that leads to this. Were ursa and/or azula involved as well, hey why not?

    2. Ursa sacrifices her self in some way for zuko, be it she runs away or is killed or both or what ever.

    Also I wonder if Ursa is dead, it will make a very lovvy-huggy episode if zuko ever finds his mother, because of this I hope she is dead.

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  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [26]Sep 28, 2006
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    dumbTVnut wrote:

    The theories are nice, but I???m not a guessing person and the only thing I'm keeping bets on are:

    1. Regicide (I love that word!): Ozai murdered azulon, be it however complicated the events were that leads to this. Were ursa and/or azula involved as well, hey why not?

    2. Ursa sacrifices her self in some way for zuko, be it she runs away or is killed or both or what ever.

    Also I wonder if Ursa is dead, it will make a very lovvy-huggy episode if zuko ever finds his mother, because of this I hope she is dead.

    I'm certain we'll find out what really happend to Zuko's mother sometime in Book 3...

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  • Avatar of Shard2005

    Shard2005

    [27]Sep 28, 2006
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    I seriously think she's still alive. If she was dead or killed, we would probably know about it. She wasn't old like Azulon, they couldn't say her death was by natural causes. I think we'll find out more in Book 3.
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  • Avatar of BiSheng

    BiSheng

    [28]Sep 29, 2006
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    Look, Ozai killed his wife and father.
    How could the creators get away with this?

    Because we're arguing about it now. They left it ambiguous on purpose, so that the censors couldn't call them on it. It's not clear and you have to be intelligent enough to figure it out for yourself (or have it pointed out to you on a message board). They assume that if your smart enough to figure it out, then your mature enough to handle it.
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  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [29]Sep 29, 2006
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    BiSheng wrote:
    Look, Ozai killed his wife and father. How could the creators get away with this? Because we're arguing about it now. They left it ambiguous on purpose, so that the censors couldn't call them on it. It's not clear and you have to be intelligent enough to figure it out for yourself (or have it pointed out to you on a message board). They assume that if your smart enough to figure it out, then your mature enough to handle it.

    *shrugs* My theory has nothing to do with??me??not being mature enough to handle it. And it??DEFINITELY doesn't??mean I'm not??intelligent enough to figure it out, seeing as I made a totally different theory.??I dare to be different.

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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [30]Sep 29, 2006
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    Making "theories" does not mean your smart, and being different doesn't mean you have any value or are special. *thoughts of a misanthrop*

    Eman5805 wrote:
    dumbTVnut wrote:

    The theories are nice, but I???m not a guessing person and the only thing I'm keeping bets on are:

    1. Regicide (I love that word!): Ozai murdered azulon, be it however complicated the events were that leads to this. Were ursa and/or azula involved as well, hey why not?

    2. Ursa sacrifices her self in some way for zuko, be it she runs away or is killed or both or what ever.

    Also I wonder if Ursa is dead, it will make a very lovvy-huggy episode if zuko ever finds his mother, because of this I hope she is dead.

    I'm certain we'll find out what really happend to Zuko's mother sometime in Book 3...


    Actually I wonder if they will tells us at all. They might never explain this. Possibly as some have said because of FCC. Then again when I was 11 they forced us to read the scripe of hamlet... hum hamlet now there a work of entertainment with events eerily similar to zuko's family history.
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  • Avatar of SifuKatara

    SifuKatara

    [31]Sep 29, 2006
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    Eman's theory is very well thought out guys, Ursa is most likely the one who killed Azulon, Ozai could've but THE TURTLE DUCKS SCENE tells all. I support this theory, it is a great one. It is complete, and makes perfect sence, not saying itll happen, but it makes a ton of sence.
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  • Avatar of ThoughtBender

    ThoughtBender

    [32]Sep 29, 2006
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    dumbTVnut wrote:

    The theories are nice, but I???m not a guessing person and the only thing I'm keeping bets on are:

    1. Regicide (I love that word!): Ozai murdered azulon, be it however complicated the events were that leads to this. Were ursa and/or azula involved as well, hey why not?

    2. Ursa sacrifices her self in some way for zuko, be it she runs away or is killed or both or what ever.

    Also I wonder if Ursa is dead, it will make a very lovvy-huggy episode if zuko ever finds his mother, because of this I hope she is dead.

    I think you may be on the correct track, I have my doubts that Ursa is still alive becuase I am not sure how they could factor her in so that it doesn't interfere with the main Avatar story.?? If Zuko found his mother he would not want to leave her so them reuniting would take Zuko out of the story or bring his mother in which would turn hinder the ability of the Avatar to stop Ozai.

    My theory on the matter is that either Ursa choose to take Zuko's place or she plotted with Ozai in order to save her son.?? If she did sacrafice herself in Zuko's place (Either through Agni Ki or literally taking his place)??then I have a theory that Ozai out of love for her, assuming he did love her and thus kept her around, the killed Azulon and thus usurped the throne.?? If she did kill Azulon she would maybe have banished herself out of dishonor, but the lack of her body gives way to either theory.?? Which then again all hinges on the idea that Azula was telling the truth in the first place.

    Lastly I would like to say that I doubt Ozai killed Ursa because there is no reason for him to have killed his own wife, even if she disagreed she would always keep her mouth shut to ensure the safety of her children.

    Edited on 09/29/2006 1:09pm
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  • Avatar of Eman5805

    Eman5805

    [33]Sep 29, 2006
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    dumbTVnut wrote:
    Making "theories" does not mean your smart, and being different doesn't mean you have any value or are special. *thoughts of a misanthrop*

    since those are misanthrop thoughts I'll let it slide...but only this one time

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    bennyturok

    [34]Sep 29, 2006
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    i think its obvious she back stabbed azulon and ran away. id think thats the logical thing. zukos father knew her wife killed his father but for love, respect or shame he didnt say anything.
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  • Avatar of evilcheesel

    evilcheesel

    [35]Oct 3, 2006
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    i dunno she didnt bende in the flash bak she might even b a bender i bet she kill azulon and ozia saw so she ran away.
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  • Avatar of arthuroys

    arthuroys

    [36]Oct 3, 2006
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    ThoughtBender wrote:

    dumbTVnut wrote:

    The theories are nice, but I???m not a guessing person and the only thing I'm keeping bets on are:

    1. Regicide (I love that word!): Ozai murdered azulon, be it however complicated the events were that leads to this. Were ursa and/or azula involved as well, hey why not?

    2. Ursa sacrifices her self in some way for zuko, be it she runs away or is killed or both or what ever.

    Also I wonder if Ursa is dead, it will make a very lovvy-huggy episode if zuko ever finds his mother, because of this I hope she is dead.

    I think you may be on the correct track, I have my doubts that Ursa is still alive becuase I am not sure how they could factor her in so that it doesn't interfere with the main Avatar story. If Zuko found his mother he would not want to leave her so them reuniting would take Zuko out of the story or bring his mother in which would turn hinder the ability of the Avatar to stop Ozai.

    My theory on the matter is that either Ursa choose to take Zuko's place or she plotted with Ozai in order to save her son. If she did sacrafice herself in Zuko's place (Either through Agni Ki or literally taking his place) then I have a theory that Ozai out of love for her, assuming he did love her and thus kept her around, the killed Azulon and thus usurped the throne. If she did kill Azulon she would maybe have banished herself out of dishonor, but the lack of her body gives way to either theory. Which then again all hinges on the idea that Azula was telling the truth in the first place.

    Lastly I would like to say that I doubt Ozai killed Ursa because there is no reason for him to have killed his own wife, even if she disagreed she would always keep her mouth shut to ensure the safety of her children.


    I like your synopsis of the events best.?? It fits very well with the flashback sequence.

    As a sidenote though, did anyone else notice that Ursa was wearing either a burgundy red or a black robe as she left Zuko during the night??? It's possible that it was just a matter of lighting, but I thought it was suggestive of her fate.
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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [37]Oct 3, 2006
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    I'm tired of everyone saying Ursa did it and Ozai just got lucky. There were serious hints through out??that episode that ozai was plotting for the throne (and that for some reason azula was at least partially aware of this). It could be that ursa witness the regicide of azulon by ozai and then??tryed to run away, or it could be that ursa assisted ozai in the regicide (that??whole protect her son thing) and then out of morality ("what have??I done?!?")??tryed to run away, but its seems unlikely??that ursa killed azulon without some input from ozai.????

    arthuroys, how is the robes color suggestive of her fate?

    Edited on 10/03/2006 10:05am
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  • Avatar of JonathonWolf

    JonathonWolf

    [38]Oct 3, 2006
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    Something no one seems to be taking into account is that Azulon's dying wish is stated as being that he be succeeded by Ozai.?? This would have to be witnessed by someone to authenticate it.?? If it weren't, supporters of Iroh might rise up to give him back his rightful throne.?? Iroh seems like the kind of guy that would feel the honor of his family had been ruined if he though Ozai had murdered their father.?? In the event of ambiguity, Iroh would get the throne by default due to his being first born, and he probably would have taken it out of sense of duty.
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  • Avatar of Murraymuzz

    Murraymuzz

    [39]Oct 3, 2006
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    If Azulon made Ozai to be his successor i dont think he would have wanted Ozai to kill Zuko because the whole point of Ozai becoming Fire Lord was to continue the line, and even though??there is Azula, it seemed that the Fire Nation has always been led by males. So Azulon probaly would have changed his mind about??having Zuko killed and therefore, there is no reason for Azulon to be murdered
    Edited on 10/03/2006 6:53pm
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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [40]Oct 4, 2006
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    JonathonWolf wrote:
    Something no one seems to be taking into account is that Azulon's dying wish is stated as being that he be succeeded by Ozai. This would have to be witnessed by someone to authenticate it. If it weren't, supporters of Iroh might rise up to give him back his rightful throne. Iroh seems like the kind of guy that would feel the honor of his family had been ruined if he though Ozai had murdered their father. In the event of ambiguity, Iroh would get the throne by default due to his being first born, and he probably would have taken it out of sense of duty.


    I just figured that Ozai got the royal followers that were loyal to him to lie and say azulon wanted him king. By the time Iroh got back Ozai had already got his butt imprinted into the throne, if Iroh tried to take the throne then it would have been a mess, like civil war, or even a failed coup d'??tat and Iroh would have likely lost. Iroh does not seem the kind of guy to do that after going through one war and losing his son. Plus that and Iroh knew there was no ???Z??? in his name so he knew that he would never got the throne, fate would prevent him.
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