Nickelodeon (ended 2008)
| Dark_soul89 wrote: | ||
with the avatar state... and I said in the start that he won every battle that the storyline allowed him to win, so if you wanted to challenge that why didn't you in your second post... |
| Axrendale wrote: | ||||||||||
That may be, but we're not talking about winning fights. We're talking about using surroundings to an advantage. The only people other than Azula who have ever done anything like that on a regular basis are Aang and Sokka. |
| Dark_soul89 wrote: |
your kidding right? Zuko and Katara do it all the time, and we were talking about skill with fire manipulation too, funny how you dropped that subject... |
| rgc19 wrote: | ||||
Using Katara's presence isn't cunning. It's cheating. It's an Agni Kai (sp?), involving by nature only the two combatants. Firing at Katara was a cheapshot, and if anything, indicitive of her slipping ability. There's a line between the two. |
Oh yes it was cheap. And cunning as heck. But not cheating. It would only have been a violation of the rules if Katara had actually been hit (I'm assuming that the rules are similar to a game of tennis).
Personally, as far as battles are concerned, I have always considered Mongol tactics to be the height of efficency. That is: the most honorable way of all to defeat your opponent is with a trick, the dirtier, the better Genghis Khan truly was a genius.
| isabelwhatx wrote: | ||||||
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Don't you see what I'm getting at? We're judging Azula by the merit of her fighting, not by the result. Sure firing at Katara is effective. But it's not impressive. As I said, if anything, it's indiciive of her inability to win a fair fight with Zuko, a fight which she was losing (mental state obviously had something to do with that). So I think ours is a conflict of standards.
| Dark_soul89 wrote: | ||||||||||||
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Kindly provide us with some examples.
And I didn't drop the subject. You simply failed to respond to my counter-argument.
| isabelwhatx wrote: | ||
Katara only uses her surrounding rarely. Zuko hardly ever uses his surroundings as well. The only time Katara really does is in The Desert and The Puppetmaster. |
| rgc19 wrote: | ||||||||
Don't you see what I'm getting at? We're judging Azula by the merit of her fighting, not by the result. Sure firing at Katara is effective. But it's not impressive. As I said, if anything, it's indiciive of her inability to win a fair fight with Zuko, a fight which she was losing (mental state obviously had something to do with that). So I think ours is a conflict of standards. |
As I said in my above post, standards are different with everyone. In the end, it all depends on what you really respect.
| rgc19 wrote: | ||||||||
Don't you see what I'm getting at? We're judging Azula by the merit of her fighting, not by the result. Sure firing at Katara is effective. But it's not impressive. As I said, if anything, it's indiciive of her inability to win a fair fight with Zuko, a fight which she was losing (mental state obviously had something to do with that). So I think ours is a conflict of standards. |
| Dark_soul89 wrote: | ||||
if she didn't use her surroundings then she would only use water from her gourd... and Zuko does it in almost every fight, Azula barely does it, DBS is the only time and she was probably planing out her moves for weeks |
| Dark_soul89 wrote: | ||||
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We're not talking about finding a source for your bending. We're talking purely about manipulating your surroundings, in the manner demonstrated by Sokka in 304, Azula in DOBS, etc.
And there was no way that Azula could have been planning it all out for weeks. She might have had a very general idea of what she was going to do, but it could only have ever been very general. Most of it would have to have been made up on the spot.
| Axrendale wrote: | ||||||
Oh yes it was cheap. And cunning as heck. But not cheating. It would only have been a violation of the rules if Katara had actually been hit (I'm assuming that the rules are similar to a game of tennis). Personally, as far as battles are concerned, I have always considered Mongol tactics to be the height of efficency. That is: the most honorable way of all to defeat your opponent is with a trick, the dirtier, the better |
Yeah but that's a very archaic way of looking at it, in my opinion. Standards for fair fighting in war exist now. Surely you recall the devastation caused by mustard and nerve gas in WWI. Even the Nazis, who, to put it lightly, cared little for international approval, didn't use gas in WWII. Even in a world at stakes war, neither side resorted to gas (though some other illicit tactics were employed). My main point is, efficiency in combat should be separate from merit. We shouldn't judge something just by its effectiveness. You could say that's idealistic, and that war is a pragmatist's game, but certain limits exist, and something, I would call it our humanity, bounds us to adhere to them.
| isabelwhatx wrote: | ||||||
Taking water from a lake, to me, is not using your surroundings. You could say the same about any waterbender or earthbender. Using your surroundings is manipulating your environment in an original, useful way. Extracting water is not original. Name me a time when Zuko used his surroundings. Also, I think we already discussed that Azula did not plan out her moves. |
| Dark_soul89 wrote: | ||||||||
I think she did, she is capable of planing down to very small details |
| isabelwhatx wrote: | ||||||||||
That would be impossible to plan out the entire attack with only a few weeks notice. Azula trains, sure, but she does not memorize what she is going to do unless there are no outside variables. And, if she did plan it out (which is impossible), kudos to her. That's a great way to win a fight. |
Hell, here's a good example. YOu're walking through the halls of your high school and a fight breaks out. Two kids start swinging fists and a crowd forms around them. You don't know either of the kids, so you don't have a rooting interest. It's mostly dodging and no one seems to land anything. Suddenly the voice of an administrator call out from across the hall, imploring the kids to stop. The one kid puts down his fists and turns away. As he does so, the other offers a parting shot, knocking the other kid down. He wins. It's cheap, but effective. Do you respect that?
IF you eliminate your pro Azula bias, I think you'll see this situation clearly.
| rgc19 wrote: |
Hell, here's a good example. YOu're walking through the halls of your high school and a fight breaks out. Two kids start swinging fists and a crowd forms around them. You don't know either of the kids, so you don't have a rooting interest. It's mostly dodging and no one seems to land anything. Suddenly the voice of an administrator call out from across the hall, imploring the kids to stop. The one kid puts down his fists and turns away. As he does so, the other offers a parting shot, knocking the other kid down. He wins. It's cheap, but effective. Do you respect that? IF you eliminate your pro Azula bias, I think you'll see this situation clearly. |
