Zutara is not dead, but got to tell you, I would be highly disappointed if maizu ends with something different than zuko or Mai dying

Before BR I thought maybe Mai would choose loyalty to FN firelord over love to Zuko and stop loving him, or far less likely, she was not in love with Zuko, and was with him only because Azula asked her to do that

now those 2 possibilities were killed

Mai loves Zuko, and Zuko loves Mai, but his duties to "saving the FN and the 4 nations and restoring its balance" is more important than staying with Mai right now

Zuko didn't want Mai to be hunted for being a traitor, if he had known mai was willing to do what she did(save them from going down with the gondola into the boiling lake) and "become a traitor anyway" he would have taken her with him, but than in a catch-22, Mai would not have stopped the guards from cutting the rope

don't sell Mai short

just like Zuko who felt regaining his honor and gaining love of his father was more important, but now learned to see things differently, Mai might see things different when she sees how is life in prison, also we have to remember that BR established that she "feared Azula" and also "her parents taught her to not do anything that would damage the image of their family, and decrease the favor of the firelord" and that is why she learned to keep her emotions in check

what she did in BR might become the first step in her learning that duty to the nation is not the same as "duty to the ruler"

the only way I see that maizu ends is if either mai or Zuko dies

so basically in order for Zutara to happen(if that is what Bryke wants)

all of these things have to happen

1- Mai dies

2- Katara either turns down Aang, or "she decides for Aang, but Aang dies at the finale"

3- a few years in the future(Not by the finale) the friendship of Zuko and Katara grows into love and they get married

I think you think we missed the point

to "make up for it" and no, I am not talking Revlon, maybellene or similar

this is the post Pooldude did in DBF(with inserts by Dylan) we have to remember that PD probably hasn't seen 312, 313, 314 and 315, and he won't until May 6th(he likes seeing episodes first time in TV)

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Opinion: Shipping - Leave It Behind Come Finale Time


Apr 28, 2008 at 09:34 PM

This is Jake, and I think it's time or an "opinion" article on shipping. I think we need a balanced debate on shipping, as the fandom has been going wild over the last week, since the season "finale" trailer was shown at New York Comic Con last Saturday. Now you may not agree with everything I have to say, but please just read.

Before I go on, let me say the shipping wars need to end. If you're a member or mod or admin on a forum and a shipping war is happening, please put an end to it. Initially I thought shipping wars were somewhat good for the fandom because it makes fans passionate, but right now they are not, and it's time to end them. Wait and see the context of the scenes, and then judge them. A trailer is not reason enough to spazz out on either side.

Is it worth ruining the amazing fandom we have, just so you can prove which ship you think should happen? And I put emphasis on the should because no one knows with absolute certainty which ships will happen. Kataangers will say their ship will happen because of all the canon evidence, Zutarians will say theirs will happen because of all the "evidence" in the trailer. But instead of debating this, we're flaming each other and breaking up the fandom, can we not just set our differences aside and agree with however the show ends?

Let me tell you I personally ship Zuko and Katara. I'd be thrilled as heck if it happened, but I know there will be a lot of disappointed Kataang fans who at least say they would not watch the series anymore (even though the series would be over...). As Zutarians, however, I think we should recognize Kataang has two and a half seasons and 51 episodes of canon evidence. Sure we have our hidden Zutara all over the place, but do we really need to pull out specific freeze frames and over-analyze things to prove out point? Some things might be valid, but at a point it gets too much.

Here is the reality my fellow Zutarians: While this trailer gives us hope, it is not enough. Katara breaking off a kiss with Aang and in a different scene (and most likely different episode) Katara and Zuko hugging. What does this prove? So Katara will be startled by Aang kissing her? Perhaps she thinks her and Aang are rushing things and she isn't ready for a real relationship? Or maybe Aang tells her what happened at the end of last season? It's not reason for Zutarians to get all up in arms, though, at least in my opinion. Then for effect they add in a scene right after with Katara and Zuko hugging. Hugging. While hugging is a start, it's far from what Zutarians need in the second half of season three.

For Zutara to happen, Aang would need to confess to Katara what happened with the Guru as soon as possible, like 312 or 313. And knowing spoilers from those episodes - that is not going to happen. After that, once Zuko joins up with the group Zuko would need to do some major apologizing, and again, 312 and 313 will not provide that, neither will 314/315 (being what seems like mostly Zuko and Sokka episodes). 316 possibly, but there's a lot of damage in that relationship, and 316 is too late for anything major to happen in terms of relationships.

So then what? 317 will be a comedic episode with at least 2/3 of it happening in a theater, and Katara and Zuko sitting next to each other in the theater has absolutely zero relevance. It probably worked out best for the storyboarding/animation. That's what happens, characters are where they are in cartoons usually to serve a storyboarding purpose. What if the script called for Aang to whisper something to Zuko to whisper something to Katara, or vice versa? That's a perfectly reasonable explanation for them sitting like that. But we shouldn't make guesses on this kind of stuff, maybe the director just decided to put them like that. So if you think it means something, fine, but don't read too much into it at this point.

MINOR SPOILER: It looks like from what we've seen (Sozin's comet book, Volume 4 DVD cover) Aang will go into the Avatar state again. How? That is the question. In one of the podcasts I unveiled my theory that he will give up Katara for the Avatar state, but the theme of maturity which has been developed throughout the series, will allow Aang to almost create a loophole in the "system" and Katara will come back to him. What is this based off of? A few minor finale spoilers, and that is it. I still like that theory, but I don't have all the answers. Dylan doesn't have all the answers. Kataangers and Zutarians don't have all the answers. All we can do is sit and watch what happens.

Now ask yourself this: If the other ship really happens, will you be ok with it? And this is serious - all joking aside. If the show did it correctly, would you be ok with the other ship happening? Frankly for me the answer is yes. Personally I think Zutara would make a better story, some agree with that and others will disagree. But would I be happy with Kataang? Sure. Because no matter what I know that the Avatar writers will have done the right thing. I know there are people who watch strictly for the relationships, and this is mostly directed at those fans.

Here is when I'm going to ask more of you guys: Don't let shipping make or break the show for you. If it happens that way, a lot of fans will go away disappointed. This goes for Tokka and Sukka shippers as well (and other Toph or Sokka ships). The finale will rock as much as anything we've ever seen. There will be people that hate it - but don't make the reason shipping. The Avatar fandom is amazing in so many ways, let's not mess it up - and our impressions of the show - because of shipping.

If Katara and Zuko get together, a lot of people will be pissed, but I don't think it should be that way.

Dylan adds: "The reason I personally would be pissed if Katara and Zuko got together would be that it has not been presented in the show. That should be your reason Kataangers, not because it is an opposing ship."

I think the resistance to Zutara by Kataang fans - other than the obvious rival ship concept - may be because of the online Zutara shippers, and its not even the fault of Zutarians, entirely.

For me, the only thing setting me against getting into Kataang (besides the reason I stated above) is some shippers, not all, are overzealous and portray their romance as the greatest thing on Earth. I'm sure Zutarians can relate, and some Kataangers as well. Acting like Katara and Aang's love is greater than anything else is not something I can relate to nor enjoy. The relationship has its pros and cons, anyone who's been in the fandom knows this. Same with all ships really. If people believe their ship is so much better than anyone else's, that's perfectly fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect that. But shoving it down people's throats and bragging about it is how things like shipping wars get started. It's how the latest Kataang vs. Zutara feud got going, with Zutarians shoving the trailer scenes down Kataangers' throats. Yes Zutarians are guilty of being overzealous, at least in this case.

Back to my point two paragraphs ago, an explanation for the resistance to Zutara by Kataangers probably has something to do with how they ship it. I know all kinds of Kataang fans, overzealous and the casual shipper. Casual shippers generally are ok with Zutara but prefer Kataang. The overzealous Kataangers though tend to hate Zutara with a passion - but why? WHY? Is the idea of Katara and Zuko getting together REALLY that painful? Your ship will probably happen, Kataangers, but why can't you tolerate Zutarians? I'm not trying to be mean here or anything, but what really is so bad about Zutara? I think its the way Zutara is portrayed in the fandom personally, as just a ship about sex. The fanart and fanfiction out there on Zutara is a bit intimidating to some, I think (and allow me also to acknowledge racey Kataang fanart and fanfiction does exist). Others would argue the characters aren't right for each other, but is there any way you could think of, any scenario in which you would be ok with Zutara? Say we backtrack and in 220, Zuko turns out to be good and joins the gang then, and they gradually work their way up to a Zuko and Katara romance? Is the concept of that really so terrible?

Dylan adds: "Yes Kataangers, you should be fine with fanon Zutara. Canon Zutara you are allowed to dislike because of the reason that it is not presented within the show. But you cannot really say how fanon Zutara is, or would turn out."

For me and for most Zutarians, our ship is not just about "action." There are some who feel that way, but most don't feel that way. We just prefer the relationship of Katara and Zuko to Katara and Aang. Are we un-Avatarded? No. Here is where I think shipping is good, everyone has their own opinions on it (and some are neutral) and they care enough about a show to defend their ship. But when it gets to the point of personal attacks and overzealousness, it's gone way too far.

Now let me ask the same of Zutarians. What is so bad about Kataang? I'm speaking to the die-hards out there. Sure Aang is younger than Katara, and they are both very young as it is. If done right (and it seems like they are doing it the right way, with not too much fluff) it could be a great pairing. And guys, too much fluff is not Avatar; Avatar has balance in every form including between action and romance. Simply put, if the series would continue past a season 3 (which is will not) no couple would be having intercourse, not because it's Nickelodeon, but because the kids are young and there is no need for it. Katara, Aang and Zuko are great and smart characters, and everyone knows well nothing would happen at all until years after they were together.

Dylan adds: "Now, if the story continued down the road, non-existent from TV, Katara and Aang may likely have a lot of fluff. Call that fanon or canon, whatever you want, but don't expect too much fluff in the actual show."

I'm not going to stand here and deny Kataang exists, because it certainly does. Even the most extreme Zutarian could admit to that, I think. As I've stated multiple times before I think Kataang will happen, but I've remained a Zutarian at heart because it's still an interesting relationship to me, and should be explored. It will get some play I predict (not basing this off spoilers), and if it happens it will be for an episode or less.

Dylan adds:"Disagreed Jake. "

So guys, I just wanted to make this post (or rant, hehe) to try to challenge people to take a step back and let cooler heads prevail - because if we let this go on it will continue all the way until July and come finale time there will be a big explosion with people being pissed if their ship "lost" and the side that "wins" will be bragging and making things so much more worse for the fandom.

Do not let this happen to the Avatar fandom, guys. If your ship comes out on top in the end, great, but don't brag about it please, because it's not going to be pretty. And don't use dismissing phrases like "We know which ship will happen" or "Zutara is dead" or "Kataang is dead" or things of those nature. Don't try changing peoples' minds' because it will not happen, we're all stubborn fans. Just support whichever ship you like and come finale time, put your ship behind you and if it doesn't happen, don't let it ruin your impression of the finale or the show. Avatar is a unique kind of show and this is the end of it - and for me I just want to enjoy the rest of the episodes rather than complaining if my ship doesn't happen, and I hope you all feel that way as well.

Zukokka FTW!

Ship playing: From Zukokka to George

Zukkoka

Zukaang

Azulaang

Kataang

Katokka

Tokka

George

WiseLad:
Thank you for showing Pooldude's post! I'm glad that some people are around who think that way.

People may be stubborn, but they can change when something is done right (or at least most people). Take Mai for example and fan-like/love before and after the boiling rock. So in shipping is the same. I'm pro all ships in fanon because who am I to complain about what floats your boat? In canon I'm slightly bitter. I was a happy non shipper until M/B wrote that Katara will end up with somebody and thus crushing my dreams. ;_; So if I had a gun to my head I would pick Kataang because I want the simplest and fastest way to solve the darn issue and take that extra shipping time to things that are actually cool besides who gets to swap spit with a 14 year old.

to the ones who say "Aang is only 12, he is not mature enuff for a ship"

1- ship is not about sex
2- they will not get married soon after the comet's battle, if they get married it will be years later, even Suki/sokka (probably 2 or 3 yrs later)and Mai/Zuko(if that is what bryke decides)
3 I want you to do a mental exercise

Remember "Zuko alone"?

imagine the kid in the flashbacks named zuko at the time of Azulon's death(he was about 11)with 14 year old katara

you will give no chance to that ship(zuko/katara) just because you think at 16 he would be exactly the same as he was at 11?

so why you don't think the same for Aang/katara???

I ship Iroh/Guru to avoid these sorts of things.