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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Official Character Relationship Discussion 4

Sokka ship?

  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [761]Mar 9, 2008
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    Ok, Monk HoweverYouSpellIt died and he had to learn to deal with that.
    That would be Gyatso. This is helping my theory that Zutarians don't care about the show where Zuko isn't concerned, just as long as Zutara happens and destroys the rest of the plot lines in the show.
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  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [762]Mar 9, 2008
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    AnimeAngel90 wrote:

    (Sheesh, I take like five minutes to write up a post, and 10 more people post in the meantime, lol. So this post is kinda irrelevant to the previous one, but it does answer the 'why do you like zutara' question)

    Well, I just think Zutara will happen because I like the couple, and so I see things in the show that can be interpreted as foreshadowing for the couple. I'm not even going to try to explain any of them, because mean kataangers will just shoot them all down straight away However, this is a lot of things that could be foreshadowing for Zutara, and if they weren't foreshadowing they don't have any real purpose. And if they had no purpose other than to lead Zutarians on, I think that's just cruel - esepcially when this has happened throughout the 3 seasons.

    Like Zuko's small smile when he sees Katara in WAT. As he rarely smiles, you could interpret that as he was glad to see her (even though she attacked him earlier). If it was just some random thing, its just pointless for someone who rarely smiles to suddenly smile at someone who quite happily attacked them (other than to stir up Zutarians).

    Another reason I like Zutara is because of its fairytale-ness. Yes, Kataang is adorable and like a fairytale too (the hero getting the girl) but I also love the idea of former enemies finding love with each other (Romeo and Juliet, Esmerelda and Phoebus, Oma and Shu, Pochahontas and John Smith, etc etc). People who are supposed to hate each other, and yet slowly recognise the other's better qualities and fall in love. ^_^

    So yes, even though I do like Kataang, and it is cute (and....predictable despite how likeable it really is), I honestly prefer Zutara due to the dynamics of their relationship (yes, even though they are enemies it is still called a relationship), and because I just think it would be more interesting if it did happen. So yes, I shall sit here and wave my Zutara flag ^_^

    1. The smile lasted less than a millisecond. 2. Kataang is predictable, otherwise it would come out of nowhere like Zutara would (or as many Zutarians claim Maiko did).
    3. Romeo and Juliet never hated each other.
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  • Avatar of tomtitan

    tomtitan

    [763]Mar 9, 2008
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    Spacerac wrote:
    AnimeAngel90 wrote:

    (Sheesh, I take like five minutes to write up a post, and 10 more people post in the meantime, lol. So this post is kinda irrelevant to the previous one, but it does answer the 'why do you like zutara' question)

    Well, I just think Zutara will happen because I like the couple, and so I see things in the show that can be interpreted as foreshadowing for the couple. I'm not even going to try to explain any of them, because mean kataangers will just shoot them all down straight away However, this is a lot of things that could be foreshadowing for Zutara, and if they weren't foreshadowing they don't have any real purpose. And if they had no purpose other than to lead Zutarians on, I think that's just cruel - esepcially when this has happened throughout the 3 seasons.

    Like Zuko's small smile when he sees Katara in WAT. As he rarely smiles, you could interpret that as he was glad to see her (even though she attacked him earlier). If it was just some random thing, its just pointless for someone who rarely smiles to suddenly smile at someone who quite happily attacked them (other than to stir up Zutarians).

    Another reason I like Zutara is because of its fairytale-ness. Yes, Kataang is adorable and like a fairytale too (the hero getting the girl) but I also love the idea of former enemies finding love with each other (Romeo and Juliet, Esmerelda and Phoebus, Oma and Shu, Pochahontas and John Smith, etc etc). People who are supposed to hate each other, and yet slowly recognise the other's better qualities and fall in love. ^_^

    So yes, even though I do like Kataang, and it is cute (and....predictable despite how likeable it really is), I honestly prefer Zutara due to the dynamics of their relationship (yes, even though they are enemies it is still called a relationship), and because I just think it would be more interesting if it did happen. So yes, I shall sit here and wave my Zutara flag ^_^

    1. The smile lasted less than a millisecond. 2. Kataang is predictable, otherwise it would come out of nowhere like Zutara would (or as many Zutarians claim Maiko did).
    3. Romeo and Juliet never hated each other.
    right, R+J's families hated each other, but R+J loved each other.
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  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [764]Mar 9, 2008
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    tomtitan wrote:
    Spacerac wrote:
    AnimeAngel90 wrote:

    (Sheesh, I take like five minutes to write up a post, and 10 more people post in the meantime, lol. So this post is kinda irrelevant to the previous one, but it does answer the 'why do you like zutara' question)

    Well, I just think Zutara will happen because I like the couple, and so I see things in the show that can be interpreted as foreshadowing for the couple. I'm not even going to try to explain any of them, because mean kataangers will just shoot them all down straight away However, this is a lot of things that could be foreshadowing for Zutara, and if they weren't foreshadowing they don't have any real purpose. And if they had no purpose other than to lead Zutarians on, I think that's just cruel - esepcially when this has happened throughout the 3 seasons.

    Like Zuko's small smile when he sees Katara in WAT. As he rarely smiles, you could interpret that as he was glad to see her (even though she attacked him earlier). If it was just some random thing, its just pointless for someone who rarely smiles to suddenly smile at someone who quite happily attacked them (other than to stir up Zutarians).

    Another reason I like Zutara is because of its fairytale-ness. Yes, Kataang is adorable and like a fairytale too (the hero getting the girl) but I also love the idea of former enemies finding love with each other (Romeo and Juliet, Esmerelda and Phoebus, Oma and Shu, Pochahontas and John Smith, etc etc). People who are supposed to hate each other, and yet slowly recognise the other's better qualities and fall in love. ^_^

    So yes, even though I do like Kataang, and it is cute (and....predictable despite how likeable it really is), I honestly prefer Zutara due to the dynamics of their relationship (yes, even though they are enemies it is still called a relationship), and because I just think it would be more interesting if it did happen. So yes, I shall sit here and wave my Zutara flag ^_^

    1. The smile lasted less than a millisecond. 2. Kataang is predictable, otherwise it would come out of nowhere like Zutara would (or as many Zutarians claim Maiko did).
    3. Romeo and Juliet never hated each other.
    right, R+J's families hated each other, but R+J loved each other.
    yeah. though I thought you had commented on this post.

    Spacerac wrote:
    tomtitan wrote:
    ok heading slightly off topic here. to bring it back on topic, a question.
    zutarians, what is so appealing about zutara that makes you want to ship it? why zutara?
    I'll answer that. They think they can tell the story better than Mike and Brian.
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  • Avatar of DragnUp

    DragnUp

    [765]Mar 9, 2008
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    here's some zutara proof.

    Jake/Rose in adjl

    Katara/ZUko is avatar

    Its that simple.

    They're both mortal enemies, have the same voice actor, the relationships are THE SAME.

    zutara forever!
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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [766]Mar 9, 2008
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    Spacerac wrote:
    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    Ok, Monk HoweverYouSpellIt died and he had to learn to deal with that.
    That would be Gyatso. This is helping my theory that Zutarians don't care about the show where Zuko isn't concerned, just as long as Zutara happens and destroys the rest of the plot lines in the show.
    I fogret how to spell one character's name and that somehow means that I, and everyone else that wants to see Zuko and Katara get together, are ignorant to parts of the show that don't lead to Zutara?

    Wow, that's kind of ignorant of you. And stupid too. Did you not notice all of the other stuff that I said about Aang? How about the question that I asked about Momo. Seriously, I've never seen anyone but me ask about Momo's backstory.

    And what plot lines are you talking about? Please name a plot line for me that required Katara to have just as much feelings for Aang as he does for her.

    Edited on 03/09/2008 1:52pm
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  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [767]Mar 9, 2008
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:

    Spacerac wrote:
    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    Ok, Monk HoweverYouSpellIt died and he had to learn to deal with that.
    That would be Gyatso. This is helping my theory that Zutarians don't care about the show where Zuko isn't concerned, just as long as Zutara happens and destroys the rest of the plot lines in the show.
    I fogret how to spell one character's name and that somehow means that I, and everyone else that wants to see Zuko and Katara get together, are ignorant to parts of the show that don't lead to Zutara?

    Wow, that's kind of ignorant of you. And stupid too. Did you not notice all of the other stuff that I said about Aang? How about the question that I asked about Momo. Seriously, I've never seen anyone but me ask about Momo's backstory.

    And what plot lines are you talking about? Please name a plot line for me that required Katara to have just as much feelings for Aang as he does for her.

    that was more of a joke post than anything else. to see if someone would get riled up about it.
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  • Avatar of wiseone_777

    wiseone_777

    [768]Mar 9, 2008
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    DragnUp wrote:
    here's some zutara proof.

    Jake/Rose in adjl

    Katara/ZUko is avatar

    Its that simple.

    They're both mortal enemies, have the same voice actor, the relationships are THE SAME.

    zutara forever!

    DOBS'S Kiss Scene?
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  • Avatar of AllKnowingBeing

    AllKnowingBeing

    [769]Mar 9, 2008
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    DragnUp wrote:
    here's some zutara proof. Jake/Rose in adjl Katara/ZUko is avatar Its that simple. They're both mortal enemies, have the same voice actor, the relationships are THE SAME. zutara forever!
    Yea being mortal enemies really helps there relationships. Just because they have the same voice actors dosen't mean Zutara will happen. Even though I'm neutral I lean more toward Kataang because Zutara just dosen't make seance.
    Edited on 03/09/2008 2:43pm
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  • Avatar of caseybocook

    caseybocook

    [770]Mar 9, 2008
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    DragnUp wrote:
    here's some zutara proof. Jake/Rose in adjl Katara/ZUko is avatar Its that simple. They're both mortal enemies, have the same voice actor, the relationships are THE SAME. zutara forever!

    There is a lot of voice actors who work together but that doesn't mean everytime they work together their characters will fall in love with each other.

    Edited on 03/09/2008 3:33pm
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  • Avatar of kamzts

    kamzts

    [771]Mar 9, 2008
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:

    Spacerac wrote:
    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    Ok, Monk HoweverYouSpellIt died and he had to learn to deal with that.
    That would be Gyatso. This is helping my theory that Zutarians don't care about the show where Zuko isn't concerned, just as long as Zutara happens and destroys the rest of the plot lines in the show.
    I fogret how to spell one character's name and that somehow means that I, and everyone else that wants to see Zuko and Katara get together, are ignorant to parts of the show that don't lead to Zutara?

    Wow, that's kind of ignorant of you. And stupid too. Did you not notice all of the other stuff that I said about Aang? How about the question that I asked about Momo. Seriously, I've never seen anyone but me ask about Momo's backstory.

    And what plot lines are you talking about? Please name a plot line for me that required Katara to have just as much feelings for Aang as he does for her.



    I cant exactly prove that Katara is JUST as in love with Aang as he is with her because Aang is so deeply in love with her. However there is proof that Katara does like Aang.
    She is always kissing him on the cheak
    They are always hugging (yes I know that is more of a friendly thing but still)
    In the Headband when Aang was dancing with Onji Sokka said "hey they look good together" (or something like that) and Katara said "well if that's what you like" and was obviously jealous and showed it when she turned her head real quick bitterly and then looked back at Sokka to see if he had noticed that she was jealous.
    When Aang asked her to dance in the Headband she was very nervous. And when Aang said "don't worry about them right now it's just you and me" she blushed but was quick to recover.
    In the day of black sun when Aang kissed her she kissed back at the last moment. If she didn't like the kiss she wouldn't have returned it.
    When Katara threatened to kill Zuko she said that if she gave any reason to hurt Aang. Key word Aang! If that was just in a motherly way then why didn't she address the whole group? In the warriors of Kioshi Katara was kind of jealous that Aang was hanging out with a bunch of girls and not her.
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  • Avatar of kamzts

    kamzts

    [772]Mar 9, 2008
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    I have to correct my last post. When Aang kisses Katara in the DOBS she was surprised for the first half and then kissed him back.
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    daveshanFromGMU

    [773]Mar 9, 2008
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    My apologize, Space. But I think that you could see how that sounded like an insult.

    kamzts wrote:
    I cant exactly prove that Katara is JUST as in love with Aang as he is with her because Aang is so deeply in love with her. However there is proof that Katara does like Aang. She is always kissing him on the cheak They are always hugging (yes I know that is more of a friendly thing but still) In the Headband when Aang was dancing with Onji Sokka said "hey they look good together" (or something like that) and Katara said "well if that's what you like" and was obviously jealous and showed it when she turned her head real quick bitterly and then looked back at Sokka to see if he had noticed that she was jealous. When Aang asked her to dance in the Headband she was very nervous. And when Aang said "don't worry about them right now it's just you and me" she blushed but was quick to recover. In the day of black sun when Aang kissed her she kissed back at the last moment. If she didn't like the kiss she wouldn't have returned it. When Katara threatened to kill Zuko she said that if she gave any reason to hurt Aang. Key word Aang! If that was just in a motherly way then why didn't she address the whole group? In the warriors of Kioshi Katara was kind of jealous that Aang was hanging out with a bunch of girls and not her.

    -No one has ever doubted that Katara cares for Aang very much. We've just argued if it's love or not.

    -The kissing is the main argued part. Everyone hugs, so those aren't talked about. The argument about the kisses is that they are always on the cheeks in a very friendly way, never the lips. If you take a step back and examine real life, plenty of girls have no problems kissing their guy friends on the cheeks, even if her boyfriend/his girlfriend is standing right there and watching. It's just a thing that friends of the opposite gender do when they are close enough but still just friends. Since Aang has never expressed any actual discomfort with being kissed, there's no reason for Katara not to go further if she wanted to.

    -Ok, the headband and DoBS thing always get me confused. Yes, she was clearly jealous, nervous, then happy. When I first saw that, I thought, "Well, I was wrong about her and Zuko. Oh well, they would have been a cute couple, though." Then, in DoBS the kiss scene...

    Let me put it to you this way: If you watch Futurama, think about the episode where they were dragged underwater and found the lost city of Atlanta. Just before they leave to go back to the surface, Dr. Zoidberg's underwater house get's burned down and he screams, "How could this happen?" Hermes then says, "That's a good question." Right after he says that, Bender walks over and picks up a lit cigar, starts smoking it, and says. "Ah, that's where I put my cigar." Hermes replies by saying, "That just raises further questions."

    That's how I feel about the kiss scene. Katara resisted at first, then went into it. When it was over, she kept her lips puckered, opened her eyes while she wore a confused look, and then did the whole turning down thing as if she just did something that she knew she shouldn't have. It didn't answer a single thing.

    -We've all been over why she singles out Aang at the end of WAT. Zuko has never really been after anyone else. Everytime he attacked them, he singled out Aang. She knew that, if he really was there to harm anyone, the only one it would be would be Aang.

    -In the Warriors Kioshi, I think that Katara was disappointed in Aang more than jealous. He was using his status as the avatar to pick up fan girls instead of doing what they were supposed to be doing.

    Let me ask you this, I've asked it to many others and still haven't gotten a response that I am satisfied with: In TFM, when they are sitting around the fire at dinner, Aang and Katara are sitting as far apart as anyone else is. Kind of like their personal boundaries are still the same.

    Now, think about it. He just expressed his love to her and if it were mutual, don't you think they'd be sitting shoulder to shoulder? They don't need to face-suck every three seconds, but, seeing as they both supposed to have secretly been in love with each other and they know that either of them could die any day, don't you think that they'd want to cuddle a little?

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    WiseLad

    [774]Mar 9, 2008
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    don't think "what Katara should be doing if she returns Aang's feelings?"

    think "in what ways can Mike and Bryan OBSCURE what ship will be the one AS LONG AS POSSIBLE"

    the "He just expressed his love to her and if it were mutual, don't you think they'd be sitting shoulder to shoulder?" is redundant as Mike and Bryan would not want to show that even if in the storyline she is supposed to realize she loves Aang since the DOBS kiss
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    AnimeAngel90

    [775]Mar 9, 2008
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    Well, although I agree that Mike and Bryan just want to prolong telling us which ship actually happens, you have to consider that they had this whole story planned out before they started airing it (well, we assume they did, as thats just common sense). That means that they planned all these supposed Zutara moments, and all the supposed Kataang moments. It was all planned in advance (well, most of it, or at least the points relevant to the plot - obviously some little moments were added in as they went along), before they even knew if there would be avid kataangers and especially before they knew if their actions would create rabid zutarians.

    All I'm saying is if they are just stringing us all along for awhile, they had to have planned it, meaning that had to have planned Zutara to be a possible ship on the show (thus meaning it can't be a crackship or a ship created solely by the fans) even if it doesn't end up canon.

    So all I'm saying is that even if Kataang does happen, Zutara was possible all along, because Mike and Bryan had to have planned it that way. They couldn't just decide in season 2 or whatever - "hey, i know what will make more fans! Let's just chuck in a whole lot of random moments that could make people think the romance is supposed to be between katara and zuko, hope the audience picks up on it and creates a fanbase, and then prolong having aang and katara getting together for as long as possible so we get viewers from both fanbases watching until the end! Even though the zukoxkatara fans will have already been watching the show anyway, so we technically gain nothing! Yes, this is the perfect plan!"

    I mean come on, doesn't that seem just a little ridiculous? This also works well with the people who often point out that this show isn't just about the romance - its about the plot, the bending and everything else that makes it so awesome and got most of us watching it in the first place. If so, why would the creators need to chuck in another possible pairing if it was just to keep fans watching the show? Isn't the show good enough without the zutarian and kataanger show-downs?

    I don't know, that's just my opinion. Not saying Zutara will definitely happen, but it does certainly have a chance, considering the creators had to put it in there purposefully.

    I hope someone understands what I'm trying to say, Zutarian or Kataanger, lol.
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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [776]Mar 9, 2008
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    WiseLad wrote:
    don't think "what Katara should be doing if she returns Aang's feelings?"

    this would mean either no Kataang if we think "what should happen logically" if Katara has chosen Aang from DOBS; or not returned the feelings, only way kataang is alive is if she is still deciding

    WiseLad wrote:
    think "in what ways can Mike and Bryan OBSCURE what ship will be the one AS LONG AS POSSIBLE"
    this makes it in paper 50/50

    if she "has chosen Aang from DOBS, they can "reveal at the finale" that in scenes they didn't show aang and kat have talked(and Zutara was closed)

    if Kat "saw she can't return those feelings from Aang" they can reveal that in scenes not shown Kat told Aang they can only be friends(and chances of zutara would be increased)

    if kat has not decided yet, than Kataang would be 50/50, and zutara depends on how they deal with maiko in the next 3 episodes
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  • Avatar of caseybocook

    caseybocook

    [777]Mar 9, 2008
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    WiseLad wrote:
    WiseLad wrote:
    don't think "what Katara should be doing if she returns Aang's feelings?"
    this would mean either no Kataang if we think "what should happen logically" if Katara has chosen Aang from DOBS; or not returned the feelings, only way kataang is alive is if she is still deciding
    WiseLad wrote:
    think "in what ways can Mike and Bryan OBSCURE what ship will be the one AS LONG AS POSSIBLE"
    this makes it in paper 50/50 if she "has chosen Aang from DOBS, they can "reveal at the finale" that in scenes they didn't show aang and kat have talked(and Zutara was closed) if Kat "saw she can't return those feelings from Aang" they can reveal that in scenes not shown Kat told Aang they can only be friends(and chances of zutara would be increased) if kat has not decided yet, than Kataang would be 50/50, and zutara depends on how they deal with maiko in the next 3 episodes

    I got to say your are very wise , WiseLad. If Mike or Bryan had shown Katara's feeling right after the big kiss , they wouldn't have much of plot left.

    Edited on 03/10/2008 3:10am
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    waterbender6025

    [778]Mar 10, 2008
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    i think one major thing you zutarans are ignoring is that zuko probably doesnt even like katara. i think its pretty obvious, mainly from the beach episode, that zuko really likes mai and i dont think he would give her up to be with someone that he has tried to kill just because you think opposites attract
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    Spacerac

    [779]Mar 10, 2008
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    AnimeAngel90 wrote:
    I don't know, that's just my opinion. Not saying Zutara will definitely happen, but it does certainly have a chance, considering the creators had to put it in there purposefully.
    Reealy good points here. Anyway, I'd like to say that I don't think any "Zutara shipping" moments were deliberately put in to the show, I think that (rabid) Zutarians went into the show to read too much into every little thing that could equal Zutara, and continued to clutch at straws. I've watched some Zutara evidence videos on youtube and I can't help but laugh because it's obvious they're trying too hard when Zutara's not gonna happen.
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    tomtitan

    [780]Mar 10, 2008
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    AnimeAngel90 wrote:
    Well, although I agree that Mike and Bryan just want to prolong telling us which ship actually happens, you have to consider that they had this whole story planned out before they started airing it (well, we assume they did, as thats just common sense). That means that they planned all these supposed Zutara moments, and all the supposed Kataang moments. It was all planned in advance (well, most of it, or at least the points relevant to the plot - obviously some little moments were added in as they went along), before they even knew if there would be avid kataangers and especially before they knew if their actions would create rabid zutarians.

    All I'm saying is if they are just stringing us all along for awhile, they had to have planned it, meaning that had to have planned Zutara to be a possible ship on the show (thus meaning it can't be a crackship or a ship created solely by the fans) even if it doesn't end up canon.

    So all I'm saying is that even if Kataang does happen, Zutara was possible all along, because Mike and Bryan had to have planned it that way. They couldn't just decide in season 2 or whatever - "hey, i know what will make more fans! Let's just chuck in a whole lot of random moments that could make people think the romance is supposed to be between katara and zuko, hope the audience picks up on it and creates a fanbase, and then prolong having aang and katara getting together for as long as possible so we get viewers from both fanbases watching until the end! Even though the zukoxkatara fans will have already been watching the show anyway, so we technically gain nothing! Yes, this is the perfect plan!"

    I mean come on, doesn't that seem just a little ridiculous? This also works well with the people who often point out that this show isn't just about the romance - its about the plot, the bending and everything else that makes it so awesome and got most of us watching it in the first place. If so, why would the creators need to chuck in another possible pairing if it was just to keep fans watching the show? Isn't the show good enough without the zutarian and kataanger show-downs?

    I don't know, that's just my opinion. Not saying Zutara will definitely happen, but it does certainly have a chance, considering the creators had to put it in there purposefully.

    I hope someone understands what I'm trying to say, Zutarian or Kataanger, lol.
    what zutara moments? you argue as if the entire shos is full of zutara! the only zutara moment was in 220, and even then katara said later it was out of pity, not love.
    MDD and BK haven't planned out every miniscule detail from the beginning, that would be stupid, because as you go along you'll get new ideas or realise old ones are stupid, to plan the entire show form the beginning is madness, evidence that they changed ideas as they went along is toph, who was originally going to be similar to the boulder.
    the most they would've planned at the start would've been the names and synopses of the episodes, the actual dialogue would not have come for a long time. in the original brainstoring session they would not have thought a lot about the shipping, they probably thought 'what's the main relationship going to be?' then thought 'aang and kya (katara's name at the time), let's not think about that too much'.

    the main points here is 1. that your argument is based on the assumption that there are a lot of zutara moments, but i can really only see 1, and that didn't happen until the season 2 finale, and by then the zutara fanbase was frakken huge. and 2. that they didn't plan the entire show from the start, most of the show was thought up at a later stage, and that definitely includes teh season 2 finale.
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