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Do You Think Katara Is Annoying?

  • Avatar of clearwater04

    clearwater04

    [381]Jul 20, 2007
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    piranhapete wrote:
    masterofaeons wrote:
    Katara has lost to Zuko only in Season 1, when she didn't start getting overwhelmingly powerful. Since the finale, she's proven that she can beat anyone - anytime. She didn't lose or win against Zuko in XROD, but she kind of proved her worth after turning the Octopus stance into a tidal wave that wiped out the royal duo and around 30 Dai Li agents. I'm pretty sure she came out on top there. Her fighting against Mai and Ty Lee isn't part of the litmus test for me, as no one has beaten Mai and Ty Lee.

    Let me describe the Mai Lee formula. Stuff happens, the three girls split up. Azula does something important and Ty Lee and Mai take care of Sokka and Katara. A usually comical situation follows...then either Toph or APPA swoops in to save the day (Appa more often). Since no one has beaten Mai or Ty Lee in direct combat, I don't count them as competitors. Aside from the God-Moding Twins, how many people have beaten Katara? Zuko (when she was normal) and Azula (when she's not full of righteous fury).

    Verdict? Katara is overpowered. The only thing more powerful than her is Appa. (But that's a different sore spot)


    Yes, Katara is exceptionally powerful, but I don't see what the problem is. What is "overpowered" and what is your beef with her waterbending prowess? I'm assuming that you find that it's simply too unbelievable, but I argue that she's been working towards this for six months. She was okay for the first half of season one, then a month later she could do some damage. Then, after five weeks (tech. 4 1/2) training with a waterbending master, she became very serious about her training and it showed. In the previous three months of season two, we have seen her train with Aang and fight near large bodies of water, and she has gotten better and better until, yes, she is an amazing waterbender. But honestly, Katara would have been doomed if Iroh hadn't come along, and that fact seemed pretty well established to me. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I find that it has been shown how hard Katara worked to become a better waterbender, and that her skill is not unearned.
    she lost to zuko 2 in season 1
    the waterbending scroll ring any bells
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [382]Jul 20, 2007
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    kia209 wrote:
    masterofaeons wrote:
    Katara has lost to Zuko only in Season 1, when she didn't start getting overwhelmingly powerful. Since the finale, she's proven that she can beat anyone - anytime. She didn't lose or win against Zuko in XROD, but she kind of proved her worth after turning the Octopus stance into a tidal wave that wiped out the royal duo and around 30 Dai Li agents. I'm pretty sure she came out on top there. Her fighting against Mai and Ty Lee isn't part of the litmus test for me, as no one has beaten Mai and Ty Lee.

    Let me describe the Mai Lee formula. Stuff happens, the three girls split up. Azula does something important and Ty Lee and Mai take care of Sokka and Katara. A usually comical situation follows...then either Toph or APPA swoops in to save the day (Appa more often). Since no one has beaten Mai or Ty Lee in direct combat, I don't count them as competitors. Aside from the God-Moding Twins, how many people have beaten Katara? Zuko (when she was normal) and Azula (when she's not full of righteous fury).

    Verdict? Katara is overpowered. The only thing more powerful than her is Appa. (But that's a different sore spot)


    OK??? But did't katara beat ty lee in "the drill" when she waterbende her in the drill thing and then toph came and the drill exploded??


    That's not what we call fighting. That's more like "staring at someone while they do stuff to you and you just wait for a fair fight."
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [383]Jul 20, 2007
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    piranhapete wrote:
    masterofaeons wrote:
    Katara has lost to Zuko only in Season 1, when she didn't start getting overwhelmingly powerful. Since the finale, she's proven that she can beat anyone - anytime. She didn't lose or win against Zuko in XROD, but she kind of proved her worth after turning the Octopus stance into a tidal wave that wiped out the royal duo and around 30 Dai Li agents. I'm pretty sure she came out on top there. Her fighting against Mai and Ty Lee isn't part of the litmus test for me, as no one has beaten Mai and Ty Lee.

    Let me describe the Mai Lee formula. Stuff happens, the three girls split up. Azula does something important and Ty Lee and Mai take care of Sokka and Katara. A usually comical situation follows...then either Toph or APPA swoops in to save the day (Appa more often). Since no one has beaten Mai or Ty Lee in direct combat, I don't count them as competitors. Aside from the God-Moding Twins, how many people have beaten Katara? Zuko (when she was normal) and Azula (when she's not full of righteous fury).

    Verdict? Katara is overpowered. The only thing more powerful than her is Appa. (But that's a different sore spot)


    Yes, Katara is exceptionally powerful, but I don't see what the problem is. What is "overpowered" and what is your beef with her waterbending prowess? I'm assuming that you find that it's simply too unbelievable, but I argue that she's been working towards this for six months. She was okay for the first half of season one, then a month later she could do some damage. Then, after five weeks (tech. 4 1/2) training with a waterbending master, she became very serious about her training and it showed. In the previous three months of season two, we have seen her train with Aang and fight near large bodies of water, and she has gotten better and better until, yes, she is an amazing waterbender. But honestly, Katara would have been doomed if Iroh hadn't come along, and that fact seemed pretty well established to me. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I find that it has been shown how hard Katara worked to become a better waterbender, and that her skill is not unearned.


    Katara isn't credited for raw talent. Pakku gives that title to Aang. Katara is just a hard worker and not exceptional by any explaination. She just has incredible power because the story needs a power-monger and the writers apparantly love her. Her skill is completely unearned. We didn't even get a montage.
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  • Avatar of masterofaeons

    masterofaeons

    [384]Jul 20, 2007
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    clearwater04 wrote:
    piranhapete wrote:
    masterofaeons wrote:
    Katara has lost to Zuko only in Season 1, when she didn't start getting overwhelmingly powerful. Since the finale, she's proven that she can beat anyone - anytime. She didn't lose or win against Zuko in XROD, but she kind of proved her worth after turning the Octopus stance into a tidal wave that wiped out the royal duo and around 30 Dai Li agents. I'm pretty sure she came out on top there. Her fighting against Mai and Ty Lee isn't part of the litmus test for me, as no one has beaten Mai and Ty Lee.

    Let me describe the Mai Lee formula. Stuff happens, the three girls split up. Azula does something important and Ty Lee and Mai take care of Sokka and Katara. A usually comical situation follows...then either Toph or APPA swoops in to save the day (Appa more often). Since no one has beaten Mai or Ty Lee in direct combat, I don't count them as competitors. Aside from the God-Moding Twins, how many people have beaten Katara? Zuko (when she was normal) and Azula (when she's not full of righteous fury).

    Verdict? Katara is overpowered. The only thing more powerful than her is Appa. (But that's a different sore spot)


    Yes, Katara is exceptionally powerful, but I don't see what the problem is. What is "overpowered" and what is your beef with her waterbending prowess? I'm assuming that you find that it's simply too unbelievable, but I argue that she's been working towards this for six months. She was okay for the first half of season one, then a month later she could do some damage. Then, after five weeks (tech. 4 1/2) training with a waterbending master, she became very serious about her training and it showed. In the previous three months of season two, we have seen her train with Aang and fight near large bodies of water, and she has gotten better and better until, yes, she is an amazing waterbender. But honestly, Katara would have been doomed if Iroh hadn't come along, and that fact seemed pretty well established to me. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I find that it has been shown how hard Katara worked to become a better waterbender, and that her skill is not unearned.
    she lost to zuko 2 in season 1
    the waterbending scroll ring any bells


    As I said, Zuko vs. Katara is now inadmissable as evidence because Katara has since fought him and won in the blink of an eye. Season 1 doesn't prove anything.
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  • Avatar of piranhapete

    piranhapete

    [385]Jul 20, 2007
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    masterofaeons wrote:
    piranhapete wrote:
    masterofaeons wrote:
    Katara has lost to Zuko only in Season 1, when she didn't start getting overwhelmingly powerful. Since the finale, she's proven that she can beat anyone - anytime. She didn't lose or win against Zuko in XROD, but she kind of proved her worth after turning the Octopus stance into a tidal wave that wiped out the royal duo and around 30 Dai Li agents. I'm pretty sure she came out on top there. Her fighting against Mai and Ty Lee isn't part of the litmus test for me, as no one has beaten Mai and Ty Lee.

    Let me describe the Mai Lee formula. Stuff happens, the three girls split up. Azula does something important and Ty Lee and Mai take care of Sokka and Katara. A usually comical situation follows...then either Toph or APPA swoops in to save the day (Appa more often). Since no one has beaten Mai or Ty Lee in direct combat, I don't count them as competitors. Aside from the God-Moding Twins, how many people have beaten Katara? Zuko (when she was normal) and Azula (when she's not full of righteous fury).

    Verdict? Katara is overpowered. The only thing more powerful than her is Appa. (But that's a different sore spot)


    Yes, Katara is exceptionally powerful, but I don't see what the problem is. What is "overpowered" and what is your beef with her waterbending prowess? I'm assuming that you find that it's simply too unbelievable, but I argue that she's been working towards this for six months. She was okay for the first half of season one, then a month later she could do some damage. Then, after five weeks (tech. 4 1/2) training with a waterbending master, she became very serious about her training and it showed. In the previous three months of season two, we have seen her train with Aang and fight near large bodies of water, and she has gotten better and better until, yes, she is an amazing waterbender. But honestly, Katara would have been doomed if Iroh hadn't come along, and that fact seemed pretty well established to me. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, but I find that it has been shown how hard Katara worked to become a better waterbender, and that her skill is not unearned.


    Katara isn't credited for raw talent. Pakku gives that title to Aang. Katara is just a hard worker and not exceptional by any explaination. She just has incredible power because the story needs a power-monger and the writers apparantly love her. Her skill is completely unearned. We didn't even get a montage.


    I'm not saying she has been credited for raw talent. You don't seem to grasp exactly what I am saying. She has been credited for hard work, which resulted in waterbending prowess.

    Pakku: Katara, you have advanced more quickly than any student I have ever trained. You have proven that with fierce determination, passion and hard work you can accomplish anything. (Turning to look o.c.) Raw talent alone is not enough.
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    masterofaeons

    [386]Jul 20, 2007
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    But that's exactly what I take issue with. I've WATCHED Katara. She trains. That's cool with me. But I don't buy that she learned overnight how to be strong enough to win EVERY fight she comes against. Why does every 10 year old in this show have to be the most powerful bender in the universe? I'd like to see par. I'd like to see decent. Why Katara's "fierce determination, passion and hard work" turned her into a god rather than a skilled novice is beyond me.
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    foamingmonkey

    [387]Jul 20, 2007
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    Of all of the major benders of the series (Aang, Toph, Katara, Azula, Zuko) ONLY KATARA hasn't had YEARS of training under the guidance of a master. She's hardly even had years of bending training period. In the very beginning, she was hardly able to control complex water bending. However, she's already up to par or MORE powerful than all of the other benders, despite the huge gap in experience. She can have all of the fierce determination in the world, but it doesn't make it any more plausible. It would be like someone who starts off as a white belt in Karate, but by the shear power of will, within a few months, they're able to handle a black belt combatant? When the black belt has been training in the discipline for half a decade, or more? I don't think so.

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    Ninja_Avatar875

    [388]Jul 21, 2007
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    foamingmonkey wrote:

    Of all of the major benders of the series (Aang, Toph, Katara, Azula, Zuko) ONLY KATARA hasn't had YEARS of training under the guidance of a master. She's hardly even had years of bending training period. In the very beginning, she was hardly able to control complex water bending. However, she's already up to par or MORE powerful than all of the other benders, despite the huge gap in experience. She can have all of the fierce determination in the world, but it doesn't make it any more plausible. It would be like someone who starts off as a white belt in Karate, but by the shear power of will, within a few months, they're able to handle a black belt combatant? When the black belt has been training in the discipline for half a decade, or more? I don't think so.

    Actually you'd be surprised. People, you all underestamate the power of putting your whole heart and soul into what you're doing. Zuko, has had years of experiance but he is still not a master like his sister is. Granted she is a prodigy and he is not but if he concentrated his efforts into firebending, I'd think you'd be surprised. He has too much inner turmoil to fully concentrate on his bending. Katara has been working whole-heartedly on her waterbending and puts all her heart and soul into it. In conclusion that makes her stronger because of the fact that in the terms of bending she concentrating on her skill so she can be the best. You guys also seem to forget that Katara is determined to prove that she is just as good as if not better than the people that have been training for year. Also people she is not I-pwn-all, Iroh helped her get out of there and for the wiping out of the Dai Li and Zuko, they weren't even paying attention to her. If your attention is elsewhere, you'll probably be defeated. If anything Azula is her rival. If anything there should be complaints about Ozai and Iroh being too powerful.

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    KingAtticus

    [389]Jul 21, 2007
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    Katara isn't annoying to the point that she actually is a bit annoying.

    Understand? Good.
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    SgtHydra

    [390]Jul 21, 2007
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    Ninja_Avatar875 wrote:
    foamingmonkey wrote:

    Of all of the major benders of the series (Aang, Toph, Katara, Azula, Zuko) ONLY KATARA hasn't had YEARS of training under the guidance of a master. She's hardly even had years of bending training period. In the very beginning, she was hardly able to control complex water bending. However, she's already up to par or MORE powerful than all of the other benders, despite the huge gap in experience. She can have all of the fierce determination in the world, but it doesn't make it any more plausible. It would be like someone who starts off as a white belt in Karate, but by the shear power of will, within a few months, they're able to handle a black belt combatant? When the black belt has been training in the discipline for half a decade, or more? I don't think so.

    Actually you'd be surprised. People, you all underestamate the power of putting your whole heart and soul into what you're doing. Zuko, has had years of experiance but he is still not a master like his sister is. Granted she is a prodigy and he is not but if he concentrated his efforts into firebending, I'd think you'd be surprised. He has too much inner turmoil to fully concentrate on his bending. Katara has been working whole-heartedly on her waterbending and puts all her heart and soul into it. In conclusion that makes her stronger because of the fact that in the terms of bending she concentrating on her skill so she can be the best. You guys also seem to forget that Katara is determined to prove that she is just as good as if not better than the people that have been training for year. Also people she is not I-pwn-all, Iroh helped her get out of there and for the wiping out of the Dai Li and Zuko, they weren't even paying attention to her. If your attention is elsewhere, you'll probably be defeated. If anything Azula is her rival. If anything there should be complaints about Ozai and Iroh being too powerful.

    Plus, we are all forgeting the whole idea of "prodogy." Maybe Katara gets moves faster than everyone else cause she apparently doesn't sleep until she gets it right. In fact, just being next to the avatar while he's bending does help advance one's bending skill.

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    adidaZuko

    [391]Jul 21, 2007
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    Her unrealistic mastery of waterbending aside, what bugs me about Katara is her "emotional range". Katara is the caring one in the group, she's also the responsible one, but she knows how to have fun. She's also strong and determined, but sweet and amiable, she's got a temper but she's empathetic. She's sarcastic but sincere, she's a leader but can follow. She's composed, she's feminine, she's brave and independent. She's an idealist, but not to the point that she loses touch on reality. She's proud and competitive, but humble and collaborative. She's confident and self-assured. She's also shown to be highly intelligent despite not having formal education and wise beyond her years.??

    Her personality has the consistency of crude oil.??She can adjust to any situation in the show. Really the only traits she doesn't seem to have are either traits that would be morally questionable, such as being manipulative or deceitful; or any kind of gross or immature habit.

    Group all that together, throw in the fact that she's pretty and the hero's love interest (so she's guaranteed to have the most glamour shots), and her half-baked mastery of waterbending and you get the ultimate canon Mary Sue, i.e. Katara.
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    SgtHydra

    [392]Jul 21, 2007
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    adidaZuko wrote:
    Her unrealistic mastery of waterbending aside, what bugs me about Katara is her "emotional range". Katara is the caring one in the group, she's also the responsible one, but she knows how to have fun. She's also strong and determined, but sweet and amiable, she's got a temper but she's empathetic. She's sarcastic but sincere, she's a leader but can follow. She's composed, she's feminine, she's brave and independent. She's an idealist, but not to the point that she loses touch on reality. She's proud and competitive, but humble and collaborative. She's confident and self-assured. She's also shown to be highly intelligent despite not having formal education and wise beyond her years.

    Her personality has the consistency of crude oil.She can adjust to any situation in the show. Really the only traits she doesn't seem to have are either traits that would be morally questionable, such as being manipulative or deceitful; or any kind of gross or immature habit.

    Group all that together, throw in the fact that she's pretty and the hero's love interest (so she's guaranteed to have the most glamour shots), and her half-baked mastery of waterbending and you get the ultimate canon Mary Sue, i.e. Katara.

    So you don't like her "all over the place"ness? Most of the rage and deceit is PMS.

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    titiembe

    [393]Jul 21, 2007
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    Sorry to interupt, and sorry that I haven't been on these forums for awhile, but Katara isn't annoying. She rules
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  • Avatar of foamingmonkey

    foamingmonkey

    [394]Jul 21, 2007
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    SgtHydra wrote:
    Ninja_Avatar875 wrote:
    Actually you'd be surprised. People, you all underestamate the power of putting your whole heart and soul into what you're doing. Zuko, has had years of experiance but he is still not a master like his sister is. Granted she is a prodigy and he is not but if he concentrated his efforts into firebending, I'd think you'd be surprised. He has too much inner turmoil to fully concentrate on his bending. Katara has been working whole-heartedly on her waterbending and puts all her heart and soul into it. In conclusion that makes her stronger because of the fact that in the terms of bending she concentrating on her skill so she can be the best. You guys also seem to forget that Katara is determined to prove that she is just as good as if not better than the people that have been training for year. Also people she is not I-pwn-all, Iroh helped her get out of there and for the wiping out of the Dai Li and Zuko, they weren't even paying attention to her. If your attention is elsewhere, you'll probably be defeated. If anything Azula is her rival. If anything there should be complaints about Ozai and Iroh being too powerful.

    Plus, we are all forgeting the whole idea of "prodogy." Maybe Katara gets moves faster than everyone else cause she apparently doesn't sleep until she gets it right. In fact, just being next to the avatar while he's bending does help advance one's bending skill.

    Zuko, at the time both he and Azula were learning firebending, wasn't in any state of "inner turmoil." At least not in the way he is now. He was grumpy, and didn't seem to have any friends to speak of, but he wasn't severely mentally and emotionally scarred. I'd imagine that came after his father burned his face and exiled him. He seems equally determined as his sister (especially with the past sibling rivalry), but his sister was a proclaimed prodigy, grasping the element much more quickly. (Notice, however, that it was still probably around three or four years before she came to the level she is now? About the same level as Katara, who isn't a proclaimed prodigy nor an experienced student.)

    Pakku told her Aang possessed the natural talent for water bending, not her. She acknowledged it when angry that Aang was "naturally gifted" (as the Avatar) and not herself. She had the "determination" to apparently do what takes YEARS for others probably just as determined as her. If bending is like a martial art in the Avatar world, then, through SHEER FORCE OF WILL, Katara turned herself from a yellow/orange belt to a black belt in a few months. Screw the rules, she has will. If all it took to be a master was a few months and some "serious determination" then ANYONE who can bend has the potential to be a master by the time they've reached puberty. Azula would have been a true master by the time she was twelve, considering she's naturally gifted AND is one determined bi...chick. My entire point is just that the entire thing is simply unbelievable BS concocted to make Katara look super strong willed and determined, more so than apparently EVERYONE IN THE WORLD, so that the viewers would have another reason to love her forever.

    Also, she's the one who's supposed to be teaching the Avatar (because she's just so special), which implies that she knows more than Aang. You can't teach something to a student, then learn what you just taught by watching the student. That makes no sense, unless you have no short-term memory. And, if Aang was able to grasp aspects faster that in turn she learned, then he wouldn't have needed a teacher. So, then, she is apparently better than...the Avatar.

    adidaZuko wrote:
    Her unrealistic mastery of waterbending aside, what bugs me about Katara is her "emotional range". Katara is the caring one in the group, she's also the responsible one, but she knows how to have fun. She's also strong and determined, but sweet and amiable, she's got a temper but she's empathetic. She's sarcastic but sincere, she's a leader but can follow. She's composed, she's feminine, she's brave and independent. She's an idealist, but not to the point that she loses touch on reality. She's proud and competitive, but humble and collaborative. She's confident and self-assured. She's also shown to be highly intelligent despite not having formal education and wise beyond her years.

    Her personality has the consistency of crude oil. She can adjust to any situation in the show. Really the only traits she doesn't seem to have are either traits that would be morally questionable, such as being manipulative or deceitful; or any kind of gross or immature habit.

    Group all that together, throw in the fact that she's pretty and the hero's love interest (so she's guaranteed to have the most glamour shots), and her half-baked mastery of waterbending and you get the ultimate canon Mary Sue, i.e. Katara.

    I agree with this. Don't forget the tragic past that she's constantly reiterating, mostly to all four of her love interests and anyone that requires some sort of bonding (because there's nothing like sharing the tale of losing a parent to make complete strangers feel closer) AND her super special healing abilities that she so quickly mastered all by her lonesome (if it were "instinct" they wouldn't have to teach it in the North Pole...unless she's, like always, just special). She does have all of the makings of a Sue.

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    masterofaeons

    [395]Jul 22, 2007
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    To call her a Mary Sue discredits and humanizes Mary Sues everywhere.
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    foamingmonkey

    [396]Jul 25, 2007
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    masterofaeons wrote:
    To call her a Mary Sue discredits and humanizes Mary Sues everywhere.

    Ha ha, pretty much. It could be worse, though. They could have fused Katara and Yue, so she'd have a unique hair color as well as crazy moon-goddess powers on top of her already godly bending.

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    tomtitan

    [397]Jul 26, 2007
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    whoah, these posts are huge, hasn't anyone ever heard of paragraphs, they make huge chunks of text like that easier to read, i didn't even bother reading them...
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    foamingmonkey

    [398]Jul 26, 2007
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    tomtitan wrote:
    whoah, these posts are huge, hasn't anyone ever heard of paragraphs, they make huge chunks of text like that easier to read, i didn't even bother reading them...

    Are you sure it's not a formating problem on your end? The posts look fine to me. All of the bigger posts have been broken down into paragraphs from what I see.

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  • Avatar of tomtitan

    tomtitan

    [399]Jul 26, 2007
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    foamingmonkey wrote:

    tomtitan wrote:
    whoah, these posts are huge, hasn't anyone ever heard of paragraphs, they make huge chunks of text like that easier to read, i didn't even bother reading them...

    Are you sure it's not a formating problem on your end? The posts look fine to me. All of the bigger posts have been broken down into paragraphs from what I see.


    some have, some haven't, but even the paragraphed ones are still huge paragraphs, or maybe the fact that it's 10PM here has something to do with it...
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    foamingmonkey

    [400]Jul 27, 2007
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    tomtitan wrote:
    foamingmonkey wrote:

    tomtitan wrote:
    whoah, these posts are huge, hasn't anyone ever heard of paragraphs, they make huge chunks of text like that easier to read, i didn't even bother reading them...

    Are you sure it's not a formating problem on your end? The posts look fine to me. All of the bigger posts have been broken down into paragraphs from what I see.

    some have, some haven't, but even the paragraphed ones are still huge paragraphs, or maybe the fact that it's 10PM here has something to do with it...

    Well, paragraphs don't have a set number or lines, sentences, or length. Paragraphs are the combination of sentences all sharing the same idea or information. A paragraph can be several sentences long, or several PAGES long, as long as the information remains relevent. In the end, paragraphs (in essays) aren't to make things easier to read, they're to organize information.

    Also, to remain relevent: I'm hoping Katara doesn't become any more powerful in season 3. Perhaps they hear our cries of "whyyy?" and make her more...[insert adjective here]. Tolerable? Believable? Dead? Whatever adjective you want. I just want the uber-bending, spot-light grabbing, contant Sue-ing to stop. She's more of a hero(ine) than Aang at this point.

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