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The Antagonist of Season 2.

  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [81]Oct 11, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
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    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:

    Courtney isn't cruel enough to be the main antagonist, so as far as an antagonist goes, she's going to fall behind Heather. Look at everyone's complaints about her: She's ruthless, she's a strong competitor, she's willing to put everyone's lives on the line to get that million for herself.

    But ultimately, she doesn't build a power base like Heather. It was quite clear that Duncan was the driving force behind the pair's alliance: Courtney just wants to win. Aside from a few quips to Lindsay, and her fighting with Duncan (as crushes tend to do), she's never out and out malicious to anyone. We don't see Courtney reading Gwen's diary, we never see her angry with Leshawna for her insults (although, to be fair, Leshawna didn't really do that).

    Courtney's cut-throat, but ultimately, it wouldn't matter who the other competitors were: she treats them all merely as competitors, and doesn't really relate to them specifically outside of Duncan and Lindsay. Lindsay was pretty nasty to Courtney during their time on Playa de Losers, so it makes sense that Courtney dislikes her. This is in sheer contrast to Heather, who used Trent specifically because it would hurt him and Gwen. She used Lindsay specifically because she was stupid, and Beth specifically because she wanted to be liked by others. Ultimately, Leshawna is just as "alpha female" as she was i TDI and TDA, but we never see Courtney contrast with her like Heather did. To Courtney, Leshawna is just a strong competitor.

    Although Courtney is indeed an antagonist, she's, and I'll probably check flak for this, she's an antagonist with an abject lack of malice. She's not going to go out of her way to hurt anyone, unlike Heather.

    Wait how was Lindsay nasty to Courtney? The only thing I remember Lindsay saying to Courtney at Playa de Losers was how she would have been voted off anyway since no one really liked her, which wasn't nasty at all since Lindsay had no intention at being mean about it.

    Courtney's dislike of Lindsay is from Lindsay making fire when Courtney couldn't and when Lindsay won the costume contest, Courtney just doesn't like when other people out do her which is what Lindsay did twice.

    That is nasty considering Lindsay had absolutely no interaction with Courtney aside from challenges. She was certainly doing it to be mean.

    We see Courtney disliking Lindsay long before Lindsay wins the costume contest. The two were very cold to each other as soon as Courtney returned. You're just assuming that it's because Lindsay made fire. Courtney cheered for Lindsay, after all, once it was revealed that Lindsay made fire first and that Duncan cheated.

    No it's not, If Lindsay was being nasty she would have said with more attitude but she didn't she said it because like everyone else she was getting annoyed at Courtney's whining and she knew with Courtney's bossiness that she wouldn't be very popular among the other campers.

    And everyone was very cold to Courtney considering her bossing her team around and even Duncan was mad at her with her own rules for the game, and Courtney might have been cheering when Lindsay won the challenge for their team but she was furious before that when Lindsay made fire with the same rocks Courtney used, outbeating Courtney in making fire.

    You're assuming on the part of Lindsay again. Lindsay clearly said that to antagonize Courtney. She claimed that no one liked her. Which, considering Lindsay had no interaction with Courtney, was said out of malice.

    As for the rocks, Courtney was frustrated. That's all that proves. Show me how that leads to hating Lindsay.

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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [82]Oct 11, 2009
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    imverybasic wrote:

    BrainMan820 wrote:
    That doesn't answer the point made. Harold believed that Chris would blow the building; Courtney didn't. That doesn't mean Courtney can't exact payment. After all, would Courtney put her own life at risk by staying in a building she believed would blow up?

    Well she certainly had no problem stealing a hot air balloon and leave four other campers dangling for their lives. Plus I never said that Courtney would want to put her own life at risk. I said that she has no trouble putting others' at risk. Besides, the fact that the other players tried to convince her that Chris was going to blow up the building makes her very dense-headed. And it wasn't so much that she was going to put her own life at risk, but was thinking of putting the others' lives at risk if they didn't do what she said. Seeing as she was the only one with the materials, she could have just escaped the building and left the others' behind.

    And here we go back to the balloon argument. Courtney claimed that she would allow the guys to fall if she didn't give them the case. Did she actually do it? No.

    As for Courtney being stubborn, what does that have to do with anything? It's still Courtney's decision what she wants to do with her materials. The fact that they wanted her to use it to save them from a building that might blow up means nothing: that's her decision to make. If they want to use her materials, they have to pay.

    If Courtney used the grapple gun, she would need to secure it someplace to cross the wire. In that length of time, the other campers would have easily followed her. Anyone could figure that out.

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  • Avatar of shishkabob999

    shishkabob999

    [83]Oct 11, 2009
    • member since: 05/23/06
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    And here we go back to the balloon argument. Courtney claimed that she would allow the guys to fall if she didn't give them the case. Did she actually do it? No.

    As for Courtney being stubborn, what does that have to do with anything? It's still Courtney's decision what she wants to do with her materials. The fact that they wanted her to use it to save them from a building that might blow up means nothing: that's her decision to make. If they want to use her materials, they have to pay.

    If Courtney used the grapple gun, she would need to secure it someplace to cross the wire. In that length of time, the other campers would have easily followed her. Anyone could figure that out.

    So you're saying that the balloon thing doesn't count because Courtney didn't do it, even though she would've... and yet, you're saying that the campers could have gotten out of the building, when we don't know that?

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    HaydenAvery

    [84]Oct 11, 2009
    • member since: 07/05/09
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    for crying out loud courtney is a villain! far worse than heather and justin. shes more than willing to kill people in order to win and that does not excuse her from the actions she took. yet you criticize harold just for cheating when he had an actual reason. which i should remind you was a one time only thing.
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  • Avatar of imverybasic

    imverybasic

    [85]Oct 11, 2009
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    And here we go back to the balloon argument. Courtney claimed that she would allow the guys to fall if she didn't give them the case. Did she actually do it? No.

    As for Courtney being stubborn, what does that have to do with anything? It's still Courtney's decision what she wants to do with her materials. The fact that they wanted her to use it to save them from a building that might blow up means nothing: that's her decision to make. If they want to use her materials, they have to pay.

    If Courtney used the grapple gun, she would need to secure it someplace to cross the wire. In that length of time, the other campers would have easily followed her. Anyone could figure that out.

    But do you know how crazy that is? Threatening peoples' lives over a case of million dollars? That's malicious. That's complete cruelty and villainy right there! So what, if it's Courtney's decison, that makes it alright for people to die? And how do you know that she wouldn't have tried to kick the others off if they tried to grab onto her? How do you know that she wouldn't have stolen Harold's belt, or another item and then fled the building? I know it's a competition, but this is completely faulty on her part. They could have just escpaed the building and then struck a deal with her later on. She could have let the other players stink, if they had to pay. It's better than leaving them in a building that's about to blow up.

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  • Avatar of imverybasic

    imverybasic

    [86]Oct 11, 2009
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    I'm sorry for flying off the handle, but Courtney's an insane character. She'd rather let people die than lose a competition. She has no morals and that needs to be recognized.
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  • Avatar of LordGrievous

    LordGrievous

    [87]Oct 11, 2009
    • member since: 06/24/05
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:

    Courtney isn't cruel enough to be the main antagonist, so as far as an antagonist goes, she's going to fall behind Heather. Look at everyone's complaints about her: She's ruthless, she's a strong competitor, she's willing to put everyone's lives on the line to get that million for herself.

    But ultimately, she doesn't build a power base like Heather. It was quite clear that Duncan was the driving force behind the pair's alliance: Courtney just wants to win. Aside from a few quips to Lindsay, and her fighting with Duncan (as crushes tend to do), she's never out and out malicious to anyone. We don't see Courtney reading Gwen's diary, we never see her angry with Leshawna for her insults (although, to be fair, Leshawna didn't really do that).

    Courtney's cut-throat, but ultimately, it wouldn't matter who the other competitors were: she treats them all merely as competitors, and doesn't really relate to them specifically outside of Duncan and Lindsay. Lindsay was pretty nasty to Courtney during their time on Playa de Losers, so it makes sense that Courtney dislikes her. This is in sheer contrast to Heather, who used Trent specifically because it would hurt him and Gwen. She used Lindsay specifically because she was stupid, and Beth specifically because she wanted to be liked by others. Ultimately, Leshawna is just as "alpha female" as she was i TDI and TDA, but we never see Courtney contrast with her like Heather did. To Courtney, Leshawna is just a strong competitor.

    Although Courtney is indeed an antagonist, she's, and I'll probably check flak for this, she's an antagonist with an abject lack of malice. She's not going to go out of her way to hurt anyone, unlike Heather.

    Wait how was Lindsay nasty to Courtney? The only thing I remember Lindsay saying to Courtney at Playa de Losers was how she would have been voted off anyway since no one really liked her, which wasn't nasty at all since Lindsay had no intention at being mean about it.

    Courtney's dislike of Lindsay is from Lindsay making fire when Courtney couldn't and when Lindsay won the costume contest, Courtney just doesn't like when other people out do her which is what Lindsay did twice.

    That is nasty considering Lindsay had absolutely no interaction with Courtney aside from challenges. She was certainly doing it to be mean.

    We see Courtney disliking Lindsay long before Lindsay wins the costume contest. The two were very cold to each other as soon as Courtney returned. You're just assuming that it's because Lindsay made fire. Courtney cheered for Lindsay, after all, once it was revealed that Lindsay made fire first and that Duncan cheated.

    No it's not, If Lindsay was being nasty she would have said with more attitude but she didn't she said it because like everyone else she was getting annoyed at Courtney's whining and she knew with Courtney's bossiness that she wouldn't be very popular among the other campers.

    And everyone was very cold to Courtney considering her bossing her team around and even Duncan was mad at her with her own rules for the game, and Courtney might have been cheering when Lindsay won the challenge for their team but she was furious before that when Lindsay made fire with the same rocks Courtney used, outbeating Courtney in making fire.

    You're assuming on the part of Lindsay again. Lindsay clearly said that to antagonize Courtney. She claimed that no one liked her. Which, considering Lindsay had no interaction with Courtney, was said out of malice.

    As for the rocks, Courtney was frustrated. That's all that proves. Show me how that leads to hating Lindsay.

    And your just assuming that Lindsay was antagonizing Courtney when she wasn't, you also forgot that Lindsay was at the Playa De Losers which means she had some time to interact with Courtney who was probably complaining about getting kicked off so everyone else would be getting mad her as well, also just because they were on different teams didn't mean they never interacted especialy if Lindsay had snuck over to see Tyler.

    Courtney gets more then frustrated, when someone out-does her at something or just tick her off she takes it personally.

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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [88]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
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    imverybasic wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    And here we go back to the balloon argument. Courtney claimed that she would allow the guys to fall if she didn't give them the case. Did she actually do it? No.

    As for Courtney being stubborn, what does that have to do with anything? It's still Courtney's decision what she wants to do with her materials. The fact that they wanted her to use it to save them from a building that might blow up means nothing: that's her decision to make. If they want to use her materials, they have to pay.

    If Courtney used the grapple gun, she would need to secure it someplace to cross the wire. In that length of time, the other campers would have easily followed her. Anyone could figure that out.

    But do you know how crazy that is? Threatening peoples' lives over a case of million dollars? That's malicious. That's complete cruelty and villainy right there! So what, if it's Courtney's decison, that makes it alright for people to die? And how do you know that she wouldn't have tried to kick the others off if they tried to grab onto her? How do you know that she wouldn't have stolen Harold's belt, or another item and then fled the building? I know it's a competition, but this is completely faulty on her part. They could have just escpaed the building and then struck a deal with her later on. She could have let the other players stink, if they had to pay. It's better than leaving them in a building that's about to blow up.

    So she threatened to let them drop. It could have merely been a ploy to get them to give her the case. Words are cheap, actions aren't. Show me where Courtney actually does something that puts everyone's lives at risk. And I mean they are definitely in danger; none of that "the building might have blown up" crap.

    We don't actually see Courtney steal Harold's belt, so how can you assume that she did? Further, it would have been impossible for Courtney to kick someone off the zipline, at least not without great risk for Courtney losing her grip on it.

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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [89]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
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    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:

    Courtney isn't cruel enough to be the main antagonist, so as far as an antagonist goes, she's going to fall behind Heather. Look at everyone's complaints about her: She's ruthless, she's a strong competitor, she's willing to put everyone's lives on the line to get that million for herself.

    But ultimately, she doesn't build a power base like Heather. It was quite clear that Duncan was the driving force behind the pair's alliance: Courtney just wants to win. Aside from a few quips to Lindsay, and her fighting with Duncan (as crushes tend to do), she's never out and out malicious to anyone. We don't see Courtney reading Gwen's diary, we never see her angry with Leshawna for her insults (although, to be fair, Leshawna didn't really do that).

    Courtney's cut-throat, but ultimately, it wouldn't matter who the other competitors were: she treats them all merely as competitors, and doesn't really relate to them specifically outside of Duncan and Lindsay. Lindsay was pretty nasty to Courtney during their time on Playa de Losers, so it makes sense that Courtney dislikes her. This is in sheer contrast to Heather, who used Trent specifically because it would hurt him and Gwen. She used Lindsay specifically because she was stupid, and Beth specifically because she wanted to be liked by others. Ultimately, Leshawna is just as "alpha female" as she was i TDI and TDA, but we never see Courtney contrast with her like Heather did. To Courtney, Leshawna is just a strong competitor.

    Although Courtney is indeed an antagonist, she's, and I'll probably check flak for this, she's an antagonist with an abject lack of malice. She's not going to go out of her way to hurt anyone, unlike Heather.

    Wait how was Lindsay nasty to Courtney? The only thing I remember Lindsay saying to Courtney at Playa de Losers was how she would have been voted off anyway since no one really liked her, which wasn't nasty at all since Lindsay had no intention at being mean about it.

    Courtney's dislike of Lindsay is from Lindsay making fire when Courtney couldn't and when Lindsay won the costume contest, Courtney just doesn't like when other people out do her which is what Lindsay did twice.

    That is nasty considering Lindsay had absolutely no interaction with Courtney aside from challenges. She was certainly doing it to be mean.

    We see Courtney disliking Lindsay long before Lindsay wins the costume contest. The two were very cold to each other as soon as Courtney returned. You're just assuming that it's because Lindsay made fire. Courtney cheered for Lindsay, after all, once it was revealed that Lindsay made fire first and that Duncan cheated.

    No it's not, If Lindsay was being nasty she would have said with more attitude but she didn't she said it because like everyone else she was getting annoyed at Courtney's whining and she knew with Courtney's bossiness that she wouldn't be very popular among the other campers.

    And everyone was very cold to Courtney considering her bossing her team around and even Duncan was mad at her with her own rules for the game, and Courtney might have been cheering when Lindsay won the challenge for their team but she was furious before that when Lindsay made fire with the same rocks Courtney used, outbeating Courtney in making fire.

    You're assuming on the part of Lindsay again. Lindsay clearly said that to antagonize Courtney. She claimed that no one liked her. Which, considering Lindsay had no interaction with Courtney, was said out of malice.

    As for the rocks, Courtney was frustrated. That's all that proves. Show me how that leads to hating Lindsay.

    And your just assuming that Lindsay was antagonizing Courtney when she wasn't, you also forgot that Lindsay was at the Playa De Losers which means she had some time to interact with Courtney who was probably complaining about getting kicked off so everyone else would be getting mad her as well, also just because they were on different teams didn't mean they never interacted especialy if Lindsay had snuck over to see Tyler.

    Courtney gets more then frustrated, when someone out-does her at something or just tick her off she takes it personally.

    So I guess the problem is just a bunch of assumptions. I'm going on what we see: Lindsay's first interaction with Courtney directly was an insult. I'll mind my extrapolations if you do.

    Courtney gets angry with people when they do something to her (which, let's face it, is a common reaction) but that doesn't lead to hatred. Again, we don't see Courtney reading Gwen's diary. All Courtney ever does is (attempt) to consult with her lawyers.

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    HaydenAvery

    [90]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 07/05/09
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    stop being in denial. courtney has held grudges against everyone currently on the show. she still acts mean to duncan. she counts beth as a PDA thief and its more than obvious that she thinks justin and harold are useless. so the one person lindsay who happens to out do her gets on courtneys nerves.
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    LordGrievous

    [91]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 06/24/05
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:

    Courtney isn't cruel enough to be the main antagonist, so as far as an antagonist goes, she's going to fall behind Heather. Look at everyone's complaints about her: She's ruthless, she's a strong competitor, she's willing to put everyone's lives on the line to get that million for herself.

    But ultimately, she doesn't build a power base like Heather. It was quite clear that Duncan was the driving force behind the pair's alliance: Courtney just wants to win. Aside from a few quips to Lindsay, and her fighting with Duncan (as crushes tend to do), she's never out and out malicious to anyone. We don't see Courtney reading Gwen's diary, we never see her angry with Leshawna for her insults (although, to be fair, Leshawna didn't really do that).

    Courtney's cut-throat, but ultimately, it wouldn't matter who the other competitors were: she treats them all merely as competitors, and doesn't really relate to them specifically outside of Duncan and Lindsay. Lindsay was pretty nasty to Courtney during their time on Playa de Losers, so it makes sense that Courtney dislikes her. This is in sheer contrast to Heather, who used Trent specifically because it would hurt him and Gwen. She used Lindsay specifically because she was stupid, and Beth specifically because she wanted to be liked by others. Ultimately, Leshawna is just as "alpha female" as she was i TDI and TDA, but we never see Courtney contrast with her like Heather did. To Courtney, Leshawna is just a strong competitor.

    Although Courtney is indeed an antagonist, she's, and I'll probably check flak for this, she's an antagonist with an abject lack of malice. She's not going to go out of her way to hurt anyone, unlike Heather.

    Wait how was Lindsay nasty to Courtney? The only thing I remember Lindsay saying to Courtney at Playa de Losers was how she would have been voted off anyway since no one really liked her, which wasn't nasty at all since Lindsay had no intention at being mean about it.

    Courtney's dislike of Lindsay is from Lindsay making fire when Courtney couldn't and when Lindsay won the costume contest, Courtney just doesn't like when other people out do her which is what Lindsay did twice.

    That is nasty considering Lindsay had absolutely no interaction with Courtney aside from challenges. She was certainly doing it to be mean.

    We see Courtney disliking Lindsay long before Lindsay wins the costume contest. The two were very cold to each other as soon as Courtney returned. You're just assuming that it's because Lindsay made fire. Courtney cheered for Lindsay, after all, once it was revealed that Lindsay made fire first and that Duncan cheated.

    No it's not, If Lindsay was being nasty she would have said with more attitude but she didn't she said it because like everyone else she was getting annoyed at Courtney's whining and she knew with Courtney's bossiness that she wouldn't be very popular among the other campers.

    And everyone was very cold to Courtney considering her bossing her team around and even Duncan was mad at her with her own rules for the game, and Courtney might have been cheering when Lindsay won the challenge for their team but she was furious before that when Lindsay made fire with the same rocks Courtney used, outbeating Courtney in making fire.

    You're assuming on the part of Lindsay again. Lindsay clearly said that to antagonize Courtney. She claimed that no one liked her. Which, considering Lindsay had no interaction with Courtney, was said out of malice.

    As for the rocks, Courtney was frustrated. That's all that proves. Show me how that leads to hating Lindsay.

    And your just assuming that Lindsay was antagonizing Courtney when she wasn't, you also forgot that Lindsay was at the Playa De Losers which means she had some time to interact with Courtney who was probably complaining about getting kicked off so everyone else would be getting mad her as well, also just because they were on different teams didn't mean they never interacted especialy if Lindsay had snuck over to see Tyler.

    Courtney gets more then frustrated, when someone out-does her at something or just tick her off she takes it personally.

    So I guess the problem is just a bunch of assumptions. I'm going on what we see: Lindsay's first interaction with Courtney directly was an insult. I'll mind my extrapolations if you do.

    Courtney gets angry with people when they do something to her (which, let's face it, is a common reaction) but that doesn't lead to hatred. Again, we don't see Courtney reading Gwen's diary. All Courtney ever does is (attempt) to consult with her lawyers.

    No it wasn't an insult nor did Lindsay mean it as an insult, you seem to be trying to make Lindsay to be as mean as Heather and Courtney to make Courtney look good.

    Courtney's lawyer rants didn't start until "playa de lozers" and wasn't seen again until the first "Aftermath" so during all those TDI episodes she has shown getting nasty at Bridgette, making sure Sadie was voted off, and was going to let some other campers fall to their deaths in TDDDI, and in TDA when she's not calling her lawyers she's obsessively whines to Chris about not getting her way and risking everyone's lives to make sure she gets what she wants.

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  • Avatar of imverybasic

    imverybasic

    [92]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 07/09/06
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    So she threatened to let them drop. It could have merely been a ploy to get them to give her the case. Words are cheap, actions aren't. Show me where Courtney actually does something that puts everyone's lives at risk. And I mean they are definitely in danger; none of that "the building might have blown up" crap.

    Whether it was meant to be a ploy or not, they were dangling from a hot air balloon above hundreds of feet. Courtney threatened to let them fall. That's putting someone else's life at risk. The fact that she didn't let them drop was because she lost complete control after Owen managed to pull the others up to safety. Courtney even admitted that she was going to let them fall because she didn't like them. She even strangled Cody to show that she wasn't kidding.

    BrainMan820 wrote:
    We don't actually see Courtney steal Harold's belt, so how can you assume that she did?

    What are you talking about? There's a scene in the episode where Courtney takes Harold's belt off of his pants. That's not an assumption, that's what really happened.

    BrainMan820 wrote:
    Further, it would have been impossible for Courtney to kick someone off the zipline, at least not without great risk for Courtney losing her grip on it.

    That's not true. Courtney had the most traction on the zipline. Everyone else was either dangling from it or holding onto her feet for safety. She could have easily kicked them off.

    Edited on 10/12/2009 2:54pm
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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [93]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
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    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    LordGrievous wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:

    Courtney isn't cruel enough to be the main antagonist, so as far as an antagonist goes, she's going to fall behind Heather. Look at everyone's complaints about her: She's ruthless, she's a strong competitor, she's willing to put everyone's lives on the line to get that million for herself.

    But ultimately, she doesn't build a power base like Heather. It was quite clear that Duncan was the driving force behind the pair's alliance: Courtney just wants to win. Aside from a few quips to Lindsay, and her fighting with Duncan (as crushes tend to do), she's never out and out malicious to anyone. We don't see Courtney reading Gwen's diary, we never see her angry with Leshawna for her insults (although, to be fair, Leshawna didn't really do that).

    Courtney's cut-throat, but ultimately, it wouldn't matter who the other competitors were: she treats them all merely as competitors, and doesn't really relate to them specifically outside of Duncan and Lindsay. Lindsay was pretty nasty to Courtney during their time on Playa de Losers, so it makes sense that Courtney dislikes her. This is in sheer contrast to Heather, who used Trent specifically because it would hurt him and Gwen. She used Lindsay specifically because she was stupid, and Beth specifically because she wanted to be liked by others. Ultimately, Leshawna is just as "alpha female" as she was i TDI and TDA, but we never see Courtney contrast with her like Heather did. To Courtney, Leshawna is just a strong competitor.

    Although Courtney is indeed an antagonist, she's, and I'll probably check flak for this, she's an antagonist with an abject lack of malice. She's not going to go out of her way to hurt anyone, unlike Heather.

    Wait how was Lindsay nasty to Courtney? The only thing I remember Lindsay saying to Courtney at Playa de Losers was how she would have been voted off anyway since no one really liked her, which wasn't nasty at all since Lindsay had no intention at being mean about it.

    Courtney's dislike of Lindsay is from Lindsay making fire when Courtney couldn't and when Lindsay won the costume contest, Courtney just doesn't like when other people out do her which is what Lindsay did twice.

    That is nasty considering Lindsay had absolutely no interaction with Courtney aside from challenges. She was certainly doing it to be mean.

    We see Courtney disliking Lindsay long before Lindsay wins the costume contest. The two were very cold to each other as soon as Courtney returned. You're just assuming that it's because Lindsay made fire. Courtney cheered for Lindsay, after all, once it was revealed that Lindsay made fire first and that Duncan cheated.

    No it's not, If Lindsay was being nasty she would have said with more attitude but she didn't she said it because like everyone else she was getting annoyed at Courtney's whining and she knew with Courtney's bossiness that she wouldn't be very popular among the other campers.

    And everyone was very cold to Courtney considering her bossing her team around and even Duncan was mad at her with her own rules for the game, and Courtney might have been cheering when Lindsay won the challenge for their team but she was furious before that when Lindsay made fire with the same rocks Courtney used, outbeating Courtney in making fire.

    You're assuming on the part of Lindsay again. Lindsay clearly said that to antagonize Courtney. She claimed that no one liked her. Which, considering Lindsay had no interaction with Courtney, was said out of malice.

    As for the rocks, Courtney was frustrated. That's all that proves. Show me how that leads to hating Lindsay.

    And your just assuming that Lindsay was antagonizing Courtney when she wasn't, you also forgot that Lindsay was at the Playa De Losers which means she had some time to interact with Courtney who was probably complaining about getting kicked off so everyone else would be getting mad her as well, also just because they were on different teams didn't mean they never interacted especialy if Lindsay had snuck over to see Tyler.

    Courtney gets more then frustrated, when someone out-does her at something or just tick her off she takes it personally.

    So I guess the problem is just a bunch of assumptions. I'm going on what we see: Lindsay's first interaction with Courtney directly was an insult. I'll mind my extrapolations if you do.

    Courtney gets angry with people when they do something to her (which, let's face it, is a common reaction) but that doesn't lead to hatred. Again, we don't see Courtney reading Gwen's diary. All Courtney ever does is (attempt) to consult with her lawyers.

    No it wasn't an insult nor did Lindsay mean it as an insult, you seem to be trying to make Lindsay to be as mean as Heather and Courtney to make Courtney look good.

    Courtney's lawyer rants didn't start until "playa de lozers" and wasn't seen again until the first "Aftermath" so during all those TDI episodes she has shown getting nasty at Bridgette, making sure Sadie was voted off, and was going to let some other campers fall to their deaths in TDDDI, and in TDA when she's not calling her lawyers she's obsessively whines to Chris about not getting her way and risking everyone's lives to make sure she gets what she wants.

    It is an insult. Saying people don't like you is an insult, particularly when you don't have interactions with them.

    Courtney was nasty at Bridgette because Bridgette dropped a stage light on her head and set fire to a tent while she was still in it. Accidents? Sure, but anger is a common reaction to an accident. Bridgette and Courtney were perfectly cordial to each other when Bridgette wasn't practically killing her.

    It was the same with Sadie. Courtney and Sadie had practically no interaction with each other until Sadie arrived late from camping, and then when Sadie gave Courtney a concussion, even after the challenge was over. You can't possibly expect someone to be kind after that.

    Courtney whined to Chris once, when Chris broke the rules and judged Lindsay as the winner disregarding his earlier rule of originality. She complained about wrestling in a dirty ball pit (understandable), but not on anything else. Isn't this the same "one time" crap people pull when Harold cheated?

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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [94]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
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    imverybasic wrote:

    BrainMan820 wrote:
    So she threatened to let them drop. It could have merely been a ploy to get them to give her the case. Words are cheap, actions aren't. Show me where Courtney actually does something that puts everyone's lives at risk. And I mean they are definitely in danger; none of that "the building might have blown up" crap.

    Whether it was meant to be a ploy or not, they were dangling from a hot air balloon above hundreds of feet. Courtney threatened to let them fall. That's putting someone else's life at risk. The fact that she didn't let them drop was because she lost complete control after Owen managed to pull the others up to safety. Courtney even admitted that she was going to let them fall because she didn't like them. She even strangled Cody to show that she wasn't kidding.

    BrainMan820 wrote:
    We don't actually see Courtney steal Harold's belt, so how can you assume that she did?

    What are you talking about? There's a scene in the episode where Courtney takes Harold's belt off of his pants. That's not an assumption, that's what really happened.

    BrainMan820 wrote:
    Further, it would have been impossible for Courtney to kick someone off the zipline, at least not without great risk for Courtney losing her grip on it.

    That's not true. Courtney had the most traction on the zipline. Everyone else was either dangling from it or holding onto her feet for safety. She could have easily kicked them off.

    So Courtney threatened to let them fall? BFD. How does that prove she would have killed them? She offered them safety in exchange for the case, they refused. Business deal. The only thing I'm willing to fault her for is strangling Cody.

    Courtney takes Harold's belt only after everyone agrees to get out on the zipline together. You were talking about Courtney using the zipline on her own.

    It's very difficult to kick someone when they are holding on to your feet; your limbs aren't designed to move that way (kicking is not a close contact thing, kickboxers use knees when they are up close). At best, Courtney could only try to shake them off, and that causes a great risk to her own grip, not to mention the tension it would put on the zipline.

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    imverybasic

    [95]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 07/09/06
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    • posts: 3,060
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    So Courtney threatened to let them fall? BFD. How does that prove she would have killed them? She offered them safety in exchange for the case, they refused. Business deal. The only thing I'm willing to fault her for is strangling Cody.

    Courtney takes Harold's belt only after everyone agrees to get out on the zipline together. You were talking about Courtney using the zipline on her own.

    It's very difficult to kick someone when they are holding on to your feet; your limbs aren't designed to move that way (kicking is not a close contact thing, kickboxers use knees when they are up close). At best, Courtney could only try to shake them off, and that causes a great risk to her own grip, not to mention the tension it would put on the zipline.

    But that's ridiculous. Letting four other people dangling above high grounds over a case of one million dollars is still wrong. She only offered safety for them only in exchange for the case, that's blackmail. What's there to prove? Four people hanging for their lives is having their lives put at risk. She steered the balloon through thorns, bushes and other obstacles just to get them to fall. If it wasn't for Owen pulling the others up for safety, Courtney would have been able to kill them. At least realistically speaking. Since this show has so many well liked characters, the audience wouldn't be able to cope with their favorite character put to death. She could have let the other four die if she had the opportunity. Although, she grabbed the case and let them fall (which luckily, the others made a safe landing on the diving board) she still let them fall. I'm willing to credit Courtney for possibly allowing them to live, but she's still a pretty twisted individual. She's willing to kill or threaten an individual's life for a million dollars.

    I was being hypothetical when I said that. I'm saying that if Courtney were to escape the building herself, you said that the others would follow her. I'm saying that if she escaped the building herself, she had just as much of a chance of grabbing Harold's belt on her own as when they were all working together. She could have grabbed Harold's belt and made a run for it.

    Two of the players, at least were very up close to her feet, while riding on the zipline. Everybody was loosely secured to Courtney's body. The structure was very delicate; whether she could have tried to shake them off or kick them off, she could have kicked them off. Not to mention that everyone else was already attached to her. Wouldn't the extra weight add extra tension to the zipline?

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    n5d25d90

    [96]Oct 12, 2009
    • member since: 06/18/05
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    Wait, BrainMan, you assume Lindsay meant to insult Courtney, yet you don't assume Courtney would've let four people fall to their deaths.

    You also seem to believe that someone telling someone else that they aren't very well liked is far worse than someone threatening to kill another human being.

    ...Well, I don't know what your morals are, but I don't agree with them.
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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [97]Oct 13, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 808

    n5d25d90 wrote:
    Wait, BrainMan, you assume Lindsay meant to insult Courtney, yet you don't assume Courtney would've let four people fall to their deaths. You also seem to believe that someone telling someone else that they aren't very well liked is far worse than someone threatening to kill another human being. ...Well, I don't know what your morals are, but I don't agree with them.

    It's not an assumption, it's a statement of fact. There is no other way for Lindsay to have interacted with Courtney aside from an insult. It's all very consistent.

    And these aren't my morals: It's a TV show.

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  • Avatar of BrainMan820

    BrainMan820

    [98]Oct 13, 2009
    • member since: 12/10/04
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 808
    imverybasic wrote:
    BrainMan820 wrote:
    So Courtney threatened to let them fall? BFD. How does that prove she would have killed them? She offered them safety in exchange for the case, they refused. Business deal. The only thing I'm willing to fault her for is strangling Cody.

    Courtney takes Harold's belt only after everyone agrees to get out on the zipline together. You were talking about Courtney using the zipline on her own.

    It's very difficult to kick someone when they are holding on to your feet; your limbs aren't designed to move that way (kicking is not a close contact thing, kickboxers use knees when they are up close). At best, Courtney could only try to shake them off, and that causes a great risk to her own grip, not to mention the tension it would put on the zipline.

    But that's ridiculous. Letting four other people dangling above high grounds over a case of one million dollars is still wrong. She only offered safety for them only in exchange for the case, that's blackmail. What's there to prove? Four people hanging for their lives is having their lives put at risk. She steered the balloon through thorns, bushes and other obstacles just to get them to fall. If it wasn't for Owen pulling the others up for safety, Courtney would have been able to kill them. At least realistically speaking. Since this show has so many well liked characters, the audience wouldn't be able to cope with their favorite character put to death. She could have let the other four die if she had the opportunity. Although, she grabbed the case and let them fall (which luckily, the others made a safe landing on the diving board) she still let them fall. I'm willing to credit Courtney for possibly allowing them to live, but she's still a pretty twisted individual. She's willing to kill or threaten an individual's life for a million dollars.

    I was being hypothetical when I said that. I'm saying that if Courtney were to escape the building herself, you said that the others would follow her. I'm saying that if she escaped the building herself, she had just as much of a chance of grabbing Harold's belt on her own as when they were all working together. She could have grabbed Harold's belt and made a run for it.

    Two of the players, at least were very up close to her feet, while riding on the zipline. Everybody was loosely secured to Courtney's body. The structure was very delicate; whether she could have tried to shake them off or kick them off, she could have kicked them off. Not to mention that everyone else was already attached to her. Wouldn't the extra weight add extra tension to the zipline?

    See, here's the thing, though. If Courtney steered the balloon into obstacles, then they wouldn't have been killed by the fall. Kinda puts a damper on your whole "I'll let them fall to their deaths" theory.

    The thing is: If Courtney left the building by herself, she still has to secure the zipline somewhere, which means the others still have a path to follow. They can still cross the zipline hand-over-hand. Not a very fast method, but they have one.

    Look at the way everyone's arranged. Courtney would have had a difficult time shaking anyone off considering how tightly they were grabbing her. As for extra weight, the tension of Courtney moving to shake or kick someone off would create a lot more tension then the weight itself.

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    imverybasic

    [99]Oct 13, 2009
    • member since: 07/09/06
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    BrainMan820 wrote:
    See, here's the thing, though. If Courtney steered the balloon into obstacles, then they wouldn't have been killed by the fall. Kinda puts a damper on your whole "I'll let them fall to their deaths" theory.

    The thing is: If Courtney left the building by herself, she still has to secure the zipline somewhere, which means the others still have a path to follow. They can still cross the zipline hand-over-hand. Not a very fast method, but they have one.

    Look at the way everyone's arranged. Courtney would have had a difficult time shaking anyone off considering how tightly they were grabbing her. As for extra weight, the tension of Courtney moving to shake or kick someone off would create a lot more tension then the weight itself.

    That's true. It wouldn't kill them, but they would still get hurt in some way. But before, they were dangling from the balloon and Courtney was still willing to hurt them in some way. Since she couldn't make them fall, she had to steer the balloon through thorny bushes and what not. She even admitted that she was willing to let the others fall to their deaths because she didn't like them, and since Owen manage to pull the others to safety, Courtney had no chance to kill them then.

    Well you make a good point when you put it that way. But having Courtney leave everyone behind, regardless is still wrong and immorally sound. Plus, the building that the others were aiming to grab onto was far from the current building they were in. Also, they had nothing to grab onto. Courtney's zipline gun was the only thing that would have helped them get to the next building. Also considering that there are only seven players the odds of them arriving to the next building safely are kind of sketchy.

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    n5d25d90

    [100]Oct 13, 2009
    • member since: 06/18/05
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    BrainMan820 wrote:

    n5d25d90 wrote:
    Wait, BrainMan, you assume Lindsay meant to insult Courtney, yet you don't assume Courtney would've let four people fall to their deaths. You also seem to believe that someone telling someone else that they aren't very well liked is far worse than someone threatening to kill another human being. ...Well, I don't know what your morals are, but I don't agree with them.

    It's not an assumption, it's a statement of fact. There is no other way for Lindsay to have interacted with Courtney aside from an insult. It's all very consistent.

    And these aren't my morals: It's a TV show.



    Lindsay could've been interacting with Courtney at the Playa des Losers this whole time. It's not like they just vanished and POOF! reappeared just for that episode. I'm sure these people TALK during the season. What is it, story-wise? Three days between challenges usually? (Though challenges lasting more than one day probably start right away) So all that time Lindsay and Courtney were together at the Playa des Losers, at no point in time did they talk? Is that what you're saying?
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