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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Official Character Relationship Discussion 4

Sokka ship?

  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [1361]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 01/14/08
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    music4life17 wrote:

    tomtitan wrote:
    Spacerac wrote:
    OH MY GOD, I cannot take it anymore!
    no, watch it all, learn their arguments backwards, then we can have some real debates instead of the crappy 'i will keel you zutara' flame wars.

    Amen! Debates that go as tomtitan say as "I will keel you zutara flame wars" (which is true) hold only frustration and anger - ultimately not getting anyone anywhere.

    That's pretty much why I've stepped out of the battlefield. I still think that Zuko and Katara are going to be together and it will be after someone calls Zuko a "very powerful bender." However, I can't stand how people make stuff up from the series (both sides do this) and then blame the other side for doing it (again, both sides do this). I'm glad I got involved, though. It showed me how stupid these wars can get and it got me to level 3+ so I can now post pictures.
    Do you want to change your icon? It creeps a lot of people out and earns you +10000 internet respect simply for changing your icon to anything but Howdy Doody.

    EDIT: I don't mean you have to earn respect, especially not from me, I was referring to tv.com users in general.

    Edited on 03/26/2008 3:05pm
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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [1362]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
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    Spacerac wrote:
    Do you want to change your icon? It creeps a lot of people out and earns you +10000 internet respect simply for changing your icon to anything but Howdy Doody.
    Nope, the creepy doll has grown on me. That's why my back-up relationship is Zukama (Zuko and Hama).

    She may not be that attractive, but let's face it, like Katara, she can make him rise with the moon. :p

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  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [1363]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 01/14/08
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:

    Spacerac wrote:
    Do you want to change your icon? It creeps a lot of people out and earns you +10000 internet respect simply for changing your icon to anything but Howdy Doody.
    Nope, the creepy doll has grown on me. That's why my back-up relationship is Zukama (Zuko and Hama).

    She may not be that attractive, but let's face it, like Katara, she can make him rise with the moon. :p

    I sense a double entendre...
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  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [1364]Mar 26, 2008
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    OK, the Avatar State defense needs to get trashed again. Look at it this way; you can probably assume that Aang knew the difference at the end of Crossroads between letting her go and not loving her anymore, but it was still a new and frightening concept to him seeing as he has a LOT on his plate already at his age. The reason his Avatar State doesn't work now is NOT because he let go of Katara, it's because of Azula. His love for Katara has nothing to do with why his Avatar state doesn't work right now, it has everything to do with Azula shooting him with lightning and disrupting the process of mastering the state, which is also EXACTLY what Aang said happened and is what the OFFICIAL AVATAR WEBSITE says. So, he'll either master the Avatar State the same way or a different way, and newsflash: So too were the Avatars before him able to marry, he will be able to as well. With Katara.

    -In response to this picture and the comments on it about how Kataangs "are the ignorant ones"

    Edited on 03/26/2008 3:47pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [1365]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
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    Spacerac wrote:

    OK, the Avatar State defense needs to get trashed again. Look at it this way; you can probably assume that Aang knew the difference at the end of Crossroads between letting her go and not loving her anymore, but it was still a new and frightening concept to him seeing as he has a LOT on his plate already at his age. The reason his Avatar State doesn't work now is NOT because he let go of Katara, it's because of Azula. His love for Katara has nothing to do with why his Avatar state doesn't work right now, it has everything to do with Azula shooting him with lightning and disrupting the process of mastering the state, which is also EXACTLY what Aang said happened and is what the OFFICIAL AVATAR WEBSITE says. So, he'll either master the Avatar State the same way or a different way, and newsflash: So too were the Avatars before him able to marry, he will be able to as well. With Katara.

    -In response to this picture and the comments on it about how Kataangs "are the ignorant ones"

    I hope this doesn't drag me back into the shipping wars. I just want to clarify somethings.

    1. The seventh chakura is attachment, not love. It's only incidental that, for Aang, it involves love.

    2. The waterbending avatar became a full avatar long before he even met his fiance. She could not possibly have been his attachment.

    3. Roku barely knew that girl when he left to master all of the elements. Remember when Aang said, "Hey, it's that girl that didn't even know you existed" (or words to that effect)? Plus, he was away from her for at least two decades before he saw her again. There is no way that she was his attachment.

    That's all that I'm saying. The picture was for laughs, like they all are.

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  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [1366]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 01/14/08
    • level: 15
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    Spacerac wrote:

    OK, the Avatar State defense needs to get trashed again. Look at it this way; you can probably assume that Aang knew the difference at the end of Crossroads between letting her go and not loving her anymore, but it was still a new and frightening concept to him seeing as he has a LOT on his plate already at his age. The reason his Avatar State doesn't work now is NOT because he let go of Katara, it's because of Azula. His love for Katara has nothing to do with why his Avatar state doesn't work right now, it has everything to do with Azula shooting him with lightning and disrupting the process of mastering the state, which is also EXACTLY what Aang said happened and is what the OFFICIAL AVATAR WEBSITE says. So, he'll either master the Avatar State the same way or a different way, and newsflash: So too were the Avatars before him able to marry, he will be able to as well. With Katara.

    -In response to this picture and the comments on it about how Kataangs "are the ignorant ones"

    I hope this doesn't drag me back into the shipping wars. I just want to clarify somethings.

    1. The seventh chakura is attachment, not love. It's only incidental that, for Aang, it involves love.

    2. The waterbending avatar became a full avatar long before he even met his fiance. She could not possibly have been his attachment.

    3. Roku barely knew that girl when he left to master all of the elements. Remember when Aang said, "Hey, it's that girl that didn't even know you existed" (or words to that effect)? Plus, he was away from her for at least two decades before he saw her again. There is no way that she was his attachment.

    That's all that I'm saying. The picture was for laughs, like they all are.

    Well, ok then. I saw somewhere where someone thinks that by now Katara may actually be a supernatural attachment, rather than an earthly one. They do have that spiritual bond thing going on.
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  • Avatar of AllKnowingBeing

    AllKnowingBeing

    [1367]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 03/09/08
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    Kataang will happen!

    Aang whats so tongue action.

    Zutara is only good for pron.

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  • Avatar of Spacerac

    Spacerac

    [1368]Mar 26, 2008
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    AllKnowingBeing wrote:

    Kataang will happen!

    Aang whats so tongue action.

    Zutara is only good for pron.

    That's another thing. If Katara remained in that startled position the whole time, I'd definitely say "Sorry brah, but I guess she doesn't like she doesn't like you back." But they show you in your face, her eyes are closed, she's leaning in, he stops, and she's still kissing.
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  • Avatar of Spike815

    Spike815

    [1369]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 09/21/06
    • level: 14
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    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    Spacerac wrote:

    OK, the Avatar State defense needs to get trashed again. Look at it this way; you can probably assume that Aang knew the difference at the end of Crossroads between letting her go and not loving her anymore, but it was still a new and frightening concept to him seeing as he has a LOT on his plate already at his age. The reason his Avatar State doesn't work now is NOT because he let go of Katara, it's because of Azula. His love for Katara has nothing to do with why his Avatar state doesn't work right now, it has everything to do with Azula shooting him with lightning and disrupting the process of mastering the state, which is also EXACTLY what Aang said happened and is what the OFFICIAL AVATAR WEBSITE says. So, he'll either master the Avatar State the same way or a different way, and newsflash: So too were the Avatars before him able to marry, he will be able to as well. With Katara.

    -In response to this picture and the comments on it about how Kataangs "are the ignorant ones"

    I hope this doesn't drag me back into the shipping wars. I just want to clarify somethings.

    1. The seventh chakura is attachment, not love. It's only incidental that, for Aang, it involves love.

    2. The waterbending avatar became a full avatar long before he even met his fiance. She could not possibly have been his attachment.

    3. Roku barely knew that girl when he left to master all of the elements. Remember when Aang said, "Hey, it's that girl that didn't even know you existed" (or words to that effect)? Plus, he was away from her for at least two decades before he saw her again. There is no way that she was his attachment.

    That's all that I'm saying. The picture was for laughs, like they all are.



    Guru Pathik: The Thought chakra is located at the crown of the head. It deals with pure cosmic energy and is blocked by earthly attachment. Meditate on what attaches you to this world.

    No where does the Guru say you must sacrifice your greatest attachment to achieve this. It's all about overcoming one emotion/idea with another.

    Truth over lies, insight over illusions, love over grief, COSMIC ENERGY OVER EARTHLY ATTACHMENTS. Aang still has grief, can still still lie, and can still be fooled. Stands to reason he can still have an earthly attachment (love, for Katara), if he learns that his cosmic duty is more important.
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  • Avatar of Shaolina23

    Shaolina23

    [1370]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 11/20/07
    • level: 6
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    Spike815 wrote:
    daveshanFromGMU wrote:
    Spacerac wrote:

    OK, the Avatar State defense needs to get trashed again. Look at it this way; you can probably assume that Aang knew the difference at the end of Crossroads between letting her go and not loving her anymore, but it was still a new and frightening concept to him seeing as he has a LOT on his plate already at his age. The reason his Avatar State doesn't work now is NOT because he let go of Katara, it's because of Azula. His love for Katara has nothing to do with why his Avatar state doesn't work right now, it has everything to do with Azula shooting him with lightning and disrupting the process of mastering the state, which is also EXACTLY what Aang said happened and is what the OFFICIAL AVATAR WEBSITE says. So, he'll either master the Avatar State the same way or a different way, and newsflash: So too were the Avatars before him able to marry, he will be able to as well. With Katara.

    -In response to this picture and the comments on it about how Kataangs "are the ignorant ones"

    I hope this doesn't drag me back into the shipping wars. I just want to clarify somethings.

    1. The seventh chakura is attachment, not love. It's only incidental that, for Aang, it involves love.

    2. The waterbending avatar became a full avatar long before he even met his fiance. She could not possibly have been his attachment.

    3. Roku barely knew that girl when he left to master all of the elements. Remember when Aang said, "Hey, it's that girl that didn't even know you existed" (or words to that effect)? Plus, he was away from her for at least two decades before he saw her again. There is no way that she was his attachment.

    That's all that I'm saying. The picture was for laughs, like they all are.



    Guru Pathik: The Thought chakra is located at the crown of the head. It deals with pure cosmic energy and is blocked by earthly attachment. Meditate on what attaches you to this world.

    No where does the Guru say you must sacrifice your greatest attachment to achieve this. It's all about overcoming one emotion/idea with another.

    Truth over lies, insight over illusions, love over grief, COSMIC ENERGY OVER EARTHLY ATTACHMENTS. Aang still has grief, can still still lie, and can still be fooled. Stands to reason he can still have an earthly attachment (love, for Katara), if he learns that his cosmic duty is more important.


    And thank God he still is a liar. What I like most about Aang is just that (weird, right?) Even thought he's meant to be this "holy being" (or something of the like) e's still a human that lies his teeth out. XD In the runaway when he lied to Katara I had the biggest smile because I knew there's no way he was going to keep that promise. Still he does keep his word when it matters the most and has a good soul so it all balances out.
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  • Avatar of WaterLily16

    WaterLily16

    [1371]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 05/17/07
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    Spacerac wrote:
    AllKnowingBeing wrote:

    Kataang will happen!

    Aang whats so tongue action.

    Zutara is only good for pron.

    That's another thing. If Katara remained in that startled position the whole time, I'd definitely say "Sorry brah, but I guess she doesn't like she doesn't like you back." But they show you in your face, her eyes are closed, she's leaning in, he stops, and she's still kissing.

    Yes, that is true. Katara was shocked at first, realized what was happening, and let go. I don't mean this in a bad way, but maybe she was just testing the kiss out, to see if any sparks came of it. She let go of her inhibitions and tested the waters. At least that's the way I see it.

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  • Avatar of music4life17

    music4life17

    [1372]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 06/04/07
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    Spacerac wrote:
    AllKnowingBeing wrote:

    Kataang will happen!

    Aang whats so tongue action.

    Zutara is only good for pron.

    That's another thing. If Katara remained in that startled position the whole time, I'd definitely say "Sorry brah, but I guess she doesn't like she doesn't like you back." But they show you in your face, her eyes are closed, she's leaning in, he stops, and she's still kissing.

    I think that whole kiss scene is a matter of opinion. I believe she was shocked and still didn't know quite what to make of it after Aang pulled away. I'm not even saying this because I'm a Zutarian - I believe that she just was confused and if she totally reciprocated there would have been more evident signs such as putting her arms around him and tilting her head for a better angle. (if that makes any sense ^_^)

    Edited on 03/26/2008 4:45pm
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  • Avatar of AllKnowingBeing

    AllKnowingBeing

    [1373]Mar 26, 2008
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    Wow. The creators are sneaky. Look very closely at Aang's pants.

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  • Avatar of Shaolina23

    Shaolina23

    [1374]Mar 26, 2008
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    AllKnowingBeing wrote:

    Tons of pics



    I'm not surprised. Considering that Aang's balls dropped in the headband. XD
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  • Avatar of esquisofrenic

    esquisofrenic

    [1375]Mar 26, 2008
    • member since: 02/26/07
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    Shaolina23 wrote:
    AllKnowingBeing wrote:

    Tons of pics



    I'm not surprised. Considering that Aang's balls dropped in the headband. XD
    ono tis is wrong OoO AHHA
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  • Avatar of wiseone_777

    wiseone_777

    [1376]Mar 26, 2008
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    Shaolina23 wrote:
    AllKnowingBeing wrote:

    Tons of pics



    I'm not surprised. Considering that Aang's balls dropped in the headband. XD
    O_O How do you know....?? O_O
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  • Avatar of WiseLad

    WiseLad

    [1377]Mar 27, 2008
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    The reality of the avatar state

    someone is stressed out, as he has a big presentation that would take his company from being small, to becoming real big in the "whatever" industry

    a meditation guy will tell him to relax, but he can't as "all his thoughts are centered in the presentation" thus he continues being stressed out, so the guru would tell him to "think of nothing", taking out everything from his mind, mainly the presentation, when he achieves that, he is able to relax

    now substitute "presentation" with "worry about Katara, being in love with her AND if she might feel the same way", and "think of nothing" with "forgetting his earthly attachments"; and last but not least, "relax" with "going avatar state"

    the Guru said to avatar

    "It deals with pure cosmic energy and is blocked by earthly attachment. Meditate on what attaches you to this world."

    than aang thinks of he and katara getting closer, almost kissing

    than Guru says

    "Now, let all of those attachments go. Let them flow down the river. Forgotten."

    Aang: (startled) What? Why would I let go of Katara? I...I..I love her.

    Guru Pathik: (reasonably) Learn to let her go, or you cannot let the pure cosmic energy flow in from the universe.

    than this is what becomes interesting

    Aang: I'm sorry, but I can't let go of Katara.

    Guru Pathik: (calmly) Aang, to master the Avatar State, you must open all the chakras. Surrender yourself.

    Aang: (reluctantly) Okay, I'll try.

    (Aang focuses his concentration. Inside his mind, we see mountains beneath a starry sky. The heavens begin to spin with great speed, the stars blurring streaks that disappear behind the mountains. An image of Katara appears, and drifts back toward the horizon to finally vanish with a twinkle of light. The heavens cease to whirl.)

    Guru Pathik: (voice-over) Now, think of your attachments and let them go.

    (An image of Katara appears, and drifts back toward the horizon to finally vanish with a twinkle of light. The sky ceases to spin.)

    Guru Pathik: (voice-over) Let the pure cosmic energy flow.

    Looking up into the stars, we see an aurora of light. Aang is seen floating in space above the planet, and the aurora solidifies into a radiant bridge beneath his feet. Turning from the world below, Aang sees a massive entity standing above snaking path. It is a spectral figure of Aang himself, the tattoos and eyes shining with the light of the avatar state. Aang sets off carefully towards it, mouth open in awe. As he nears the feet of the hovering apparition, his own tattoos begin to shine with light. The towering, spectral Aang descends, a sphere of light shimmering between its fingers. The Avatar is enclosed within this shell, but suddenly he is distracted by a cry of distress. Aang sees a vision of Katara chained to a wall, demanding to be freed. He leaps from the hands of the apparition, and the sphere of light vanishes. Behind him, the great entity fades from sight, as he rushes back down the path. It too begins to fade rapidly, until it drops him to plunge screaming toward the world. Aang suddenly starts from his meditative trance.

    Aang: (rising in alarm) Katara is in danger! I have to go.

    (Aang turns and races away, sliding down the roof the tower)

    Guru Pathik: (calling after him) No Aang! By choosing attachment, you have locked the chakra! (Aang draws to a stop) If you leave now you won't be able to go into the Avatar State at all!
    ---------------------------

    notice that he did choose to go to Katara, and that on the next episode he was able to almost reach the 7th chakra again even when katara was physically present, so it was not locked at that moment despite what the Guru said, what locked it was his near death thanks to Azula which I will show later

    the mistake a lot of us make is to think that letting go is something permanent, actually is a momentary thing WHEN THE AVATAR wants to go avatar state, forget the earthly attachments while reaching for the cosmic energies, after his duties are done, than he can go back to his normal life.

    in COD

    ======================
    Aang wearily picks himself up and looks around. Many Dai Li agents jump down from the cliffs above, forming long rows behind Azula and Zuko. Katara gains consciousness just as the Dai Li surround her. Katara bends the water from the channel and forms a ring of water around her. The water sprouts eight tentacles as she enters the octopus stance. Aang enters his fighting stance and prepares to face his many opponents. He then looks to Katara, who is desperately fighting off the Dai Li agents.)

    Aang: There's too many.

    (Aang remembers what Guru Pathik told him at the Eastern Air Temple.)

    Guru Pathik: (in Aang's memory) The only way, is to let her go.
    Aang: (sadly) I'm sorry Katara.

    ======================

    notice that he left Katara BY HERSELF, NOT "I don't love you anymore"

    ------------------------

    Aang turns around and earthbends several crystals out of the ground to form a tent over him. Aang sits down and begins meditating. We enter inside of Aang's mind, where he once again comes face to face with the avatar spirit residing inside him, high above the world and surrounded by the starry heavens. The avatar spirit surrounds Aang in a swirling orb between its hands, and Aang's arrow glows. Shift back to the physical world. Aang's arrow begins to glow here as well, illuminating the crystals that surround him. Zuko and the Dai Li are frightened but also enchanted by this light. Finally, Aang opens his eyes, which glow with great intensity. An incredible explosion of spiritual power destroys the crystals. The Dai Li agents shield themselves from the blast. Aang rises from the ground in a bright pillar of cosmic light. Katara looks up at Aang, hope returning to her. Aang levitates in the air, until suddenly, a bolt of lightning strikes his body. Cut to an extreme close up of Azula's eye where the image of Aang writhing in pain is reflected.

    -----------------------

    we can see that he focused in the task at hand, and let Katara defend herself, and ALMOST reached the 7th chakra UNTIL Azula attacked him

    so basically

    He let go his earthly attachments while deciding to go to meditate in order to reach avatar state

    but he didn't give up Katara becoming his wife in the future (if she returned his feelings)
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  • Avatar of waterbender6025

    waterbender6025

    [1378]Mar 27, 2008
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    very well said, thats wait ive been trying to say all along, he let go of katara as what attaches him to this world but not as his true love/future wfe. so what all the zutarans are saying is false, aang can still have the love of his life AND still be able to control the avatar state when necessary
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  • Avatar of daveshanFromGMU

    daveshanFromGMU

    [1379]Mar 27, 2008
    • member since: 07/27/07
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    Damn you, Wiselad, you tempt me so. As much as I would love to rip that to shreds until each piece couldn't cover a tick, I've stopped heavily participating in the Zutara/Kataang shipping war.* It took up too much time and isn't worth it. Mike and Bryan know who Katara is going to end up with and even if they didn't at this point, I doubt that they are going online to let fans' art, videos, and discussions sway them.

    You all know what my stance is on the matter and you know why I think that Zuko and Katara will be together. It's going to happen and it'll be after someone calls Zuko a "very powerful bender".

    *I will still participate in order to clear up confusion over terms or discussion points as I did above with Spacerac's comment about the AS. Other than that, I'm out.

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  • Avatar of tomtitan

    tomtitan

    [1380]Mar 27, 2008
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    the thing about the kiss is, neither side wins.
    i've never once seen an adequate zutarian explanation for this:

    but i haven't seen a satisfying kataang argument for this either:

    so we both lose this. stop.
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