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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Metalbending: What are its limits?

  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [141]Sep 13, 2008
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    TitanPredator wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:

    Okay, let's get one thing straight here, Toph is without question the greatest, most physically and mentally powerful Earthbender in the universe, maybe even in Eathbending history. The fact that you think any old Earthbender could take the girl who: Created Metalbending, Single-Handedly Owned The Dai Li (Direct descendants of the Earthbending warriors who were trained by Avatar Kyoshi), and simply the girl who is THE Earthbending legend, is really worrying.

    You won't see Haru defeating Toph any time soon, and he is a normal-powerful Earthbender... Your basically implying that any Earthbender who can levitate a rock could defeat Toph... How do you think Toph defeated The Earthbenders in "The Blind Bandit"? Or The Dai Li in numerous episodes? Or SOOOO many other Earthbenders in the show? How do you think Earthbenders levitate rock? They STOMP on the ground to get rock to be their ally. For every Earthbender in the world to levitate a rock, they all have to have a connection to the ground... That is why Air is their opposite element, because as Human Beings and Earthbenders, their connection to the ground is frighteningly crucial.... They all have to have a touch, feel, and physical connection to the ground in order to bend squat, and guess what, as soon as they touch the ground, Toph feels their vibrations... What your not getting, is that in order for Earthbenders to do anything with Earth, they have to stomp (as said before) on the ground to do so, and this is where Toph comes in... She knows where they are 24/7 anyway (she can feel a person's heart-beat and recognizes people by their walks), but as soon as they have tried to Earthbend, BAM! They are defeated. They aren't just going to levitate a rock by just standing there... As soon as they have made contact with the ground, Toph will have them brutally encased in hard rock, or possibly even Metal (If it's around).

    I agree wtih you on Toph being the only one who can learn metalbending in a few hours, but that doesn't make her more powerfull at regular bending. I know she has a connection to the ground, and knows original earthbending. But I'm going to give you a clear example now:

    I'm in my karate class. We are going to learn a new technique. It's not realy a karate move, but our teacher wanted to teach it to us because it is very usefull for self defence It's a complicated technique to grab someones wrist and than twist it and put it behind someone's back to disable him and hurt him is you need to. I have a blue belt, and my friend has a brown belt with 2 black stripes. So he's nearly a black belt. I learned the technique way quiker than him. It took me only minutes to do it properly while my friend took about and half hour to do so. This was also the case with some other kicks and puches we do. I learned them quiker than him. But when we went sparring, we could use al the techniques we learned there. I got my ass kicked by the guy, simply because he is better at the basic techniques, and because he has more experience. So my point is: if you can learn an advanced technique much quiker than someone else doesn't make you better at karate, or earthbending in Toph's case. So she isn't the best at regular earthbending.

    Metalbending is a very advanced technique, and I don't think someone like Haru or Boulder could ever learn it, but I'm convinced that Bumi can. He also has a connection to the ground because he could sence firebenders from a very long distance and than take them out with earthbending, as seen in his takeover from Omashu. He could also bend house miles away from him, that he posibly couldn't even see from where he was standing. So I don't think Toph is the only one capable of learning metalbending. She has the most raw talent of any earthbender in the show, maybe more than even Azula or Katara. But as I said, having more raw talent and being able to learn moves quiker doesn't make you stronger, and the only one capable of doing it.

    Well, that is a brilliant argument, infact, I made that EXACT same argument with the Toph/Aang argument... I didn't mean, that because she was more advanced, that she was more powerful, seriously, I put it the wrong way. In my opinion, Bumi couldn't learn Metal-Bending, at least not any time soon... The thing is, Earthbending isn't just some Martial Art to Toph, as it is to others... It isn't just a gift or ability to her, it is LITERALLY her way of communicating with the rest of the world, she is Earthbending 24/7 of her life, I don't really think anyone else would do to great in her shoes... Sure, Bumi is a very powerful Earthbender, but compared to Toph, his connection to the ground is (despite how powerful the man is) average and normal... Toph SEES with regular Earthbending, it is her specialty... For these reasons, I think Toph is the best Earthbender.
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  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [142]Sep 13, 2008
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    I'm off to a party, so I'll be back later... I appologise is I made any bad spelling mistakes or dumb sentences or whatever, I'm just in a rush!
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    TitanPredator

    [143]Sep 13, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    TitanPredator wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:

    Okay, let's get one thing straight here, Toph is without question the greatest, most physically and mentally powerful Earthbender in the universe, maybe even in Eathbending history. The fact that you think any old Earthbender could take the girl who: Created Metalbending, Single-Handedly Owned The Dai Li (Direct descendants of the Earthbending warriors who were trained by Avatar Kyoshi), and simply the girl who is THE Earthbending legend, is really worrying.

    You won't see Haru defeating Toph any time soon, and he is a normal-powerful Earthbender... Your basically implying that any Earthbender who can levitate a rock could defeat Toph... How do you think Toph defeated The Earthbenders in "The Blind Bandit"? Or The Dai Li in numerous episodes? Or SOOOO many other Earthbenders in the show? How do you think Earthbenders levitate rock? They STOMP on the ground to get rock to be their ally. For every Earthbender in the world to levitate a rock, they all have to have a connection to the ground... That is why Air is their opposite element, because as Human Beings and Earthbenders, their connection to the ground is frighteningly crucial.... They all have to have a touch, feel, and physical connection to the ground in order to bend squat, and guess what, as soon as they touch the ground, Toph feels their vibrations... What your not getting, is that in order for Earthbenders to do anything with Earth, they have to stomp (as said before) on the ground to do so, and this is where Toph comes in... She knows where they are 24/7 anyway (she can feel a person's heart-beat and recognizes people by their walks), but as soon as they have tried to Earthbend, BAM! They are defeated. They aren't just going to levitate a rock by just standing there... As soon as they have made contact with the ground, Toph will have them brutally encased in hard rock, or possibly even Metal (If it's around).

    I agree wtih you on Toph being the only one who can learn metalbending in a few hours, but that doesn't make her more powerfull at regular bending. I know she has a connection to the ground, and knows original earthbending. But I'm going to give you a clear example now:

    I'm in my karate class. We are going to learn a new technique. It's not realy a karate move, but our teacher wanted to teach it to us because it is very usefull for self defence It's a complicated technique to grab someones wrist and than twist it and put it behind someone's back to disable him and hurt him is you need to. I have a blue belt, and my friend has a brown belt with 2 black stripes. So he's nearly a black belt. I learned the technique way quiker than him. It took me only minutes to do it properly while my friend took about and half hour to do so. This was also the case with some other kicks and puches we do. I learned them quiker than him. But when we went sparring, we could use al the techniques we learned there. I got my ass kicked by the guy, simply because he is better at the basic techniques, and because he has more experience. So my point is: if you can learn an advanced technique much quiker than someone else doesn't make you better at karate, or earthbending in Toph's case. So she isn't the best at regular earthbending.

    Metalbending is a very advanced technique, and I don't think someone like Haru or Boulder could ever learn it, but I'm convinced that Bumi can. He also has a connection to the ground because he could sence firebenders from a very long distance and than take them out with earthbending, as seen in his takeover from Omashu. He could also bend house miles away from him, that he posibly couldn't even see from where he was standing. So I don't think Toph is the only one capable of learning metalbending. She has the most raw talent of any earthbender in the show, maybe more than even Azula or Katara. But as I said, having more raw talent and being able to learn moves quiker doesn't make you stronger, and the only one capable of doing it.

    Well, that is a brilliant argument, infact, I made that EXACT same argument with the Toph/Aang argument... I didn't mean, that because she was more advanced, that she was more powerful, seriously, I put it the wrong way. In my opinion, Bumi couldn't learn Metal-Bending, at least not any time soon... The thing is, Earthbending isn't just some Martial Art to Toph, as it is to others... It isn't just a gift or ability to her, it is LITERALLY her way of communicating with the rest of the world, she is Earthbending 24/7 of her life, I don't really think anyone else would do to great in her shoes... Sure, Bumi is a very powerful Earthbender, but compared to Toph, his connection to the ground is (despite how powerful the man is) average and normal... Toph SEES with regular Earthbending, it is her specialty... For these reasons, I think Toph is the best Earthbender.

    Toph has the best potential for Earthbending. But I find it a bit hard to believe that a 11 years old girl can beat a 112 years old man, who is still in great shape and has about 100 years of experience in Earthbending. Toph has the best sense of earth and the best vision. That helps her detect the parts in the metal and therefore she can bend it. But seing with earth doesn't mean youre attacks are more powerfull. I'm getting a bit off topic now

    But I think the limits of Metalbending are that you MUST have contact with it to bend it. With Earthbending not, as demonstrated by Bumi. I don't think Toph or anyone can bend metal without having contact with that exact part she want's to bend.

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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [144]Sep 13, 2008
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    But since when has Toph had any problem beating the living hell out of people DECADES older than her? For example, in "The Blind Bandit" she beat about 10-12 men, who all had to have been about 3-4 decades older than she was, and she didn't even flicker an eye... Bumi, speaking of age, is past his prime... Toph, has beat the Dai Li, again, without even trying, they all had to have been about 3+ decades older than she was, and there techniques originate from the teachings of Avatar Kyoshi, meaning that there style must have been over 300+ years old (I would also like to point out, that the fact that Toph physically bested the exact same techniques that came from Avatar Kyoshi, is GOD-like (Deliberate exaggeration ))... Toph is actually a 12 year old girl, she isn't 11, and to be truthful, she is simply a master and legend, in the body of a young girl... Don't let her age or size fool you, if age mattered, she wouldn't have been able to CREATE Metalbending, single handedly defeat Earthbending masters 3-5 times her age with ease, on a regular basis, or have even discovered her new abilities. And I think seeing the Earth does make you more powerful... Again, watch "The Blind Bandit" and you shall see what I mean... She wouldn't have been able to defeat them, had it not been for her unique senses... She sensed where the Earth was going to go, before her own opponent did, by seeing, quicker than anyone else... She has shown the ability to do that a LOT of times...

    And I see what you mean with your, Karate example, I had the EXACT, same situation when I was a young boy at one point, when I used to do Gymnastics and Acrobatics (RELIGIOUSLY), but I do not think this is the same situation... There are some things Bumi can do that Toph might not be able to do (despite Toph superior abilities and youth), but Metalbending is not one of them...

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    yogi_tulsii

    [145]Sep 13, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:

    How do you think Earthbenders levitate rock? They STOMP on the ground to get rock to be their ally. For every Earthbender in the world to levitate a rock, they all have to have a connection to the ground... That is why Air is their opposite element, because as Human Beings and Earthbenders, their connection to the ground is frighteningly crucial.... They all have to have a touch, feel, and physical connection to the ground in order to bend squat

    Bumi didnt have to. Thus it is likely for Bumi to do what I mentioned. True, not every Earthbender can do that, or think of that but Bumi is one of the greatest earthbenders, and a crazy genius.

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    Axrendale

    [146]Sep 13, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy, I agree with most of the things you are saying. But I think we can give the "Toph beat the Dai Lee" example a bit of a rest. The Dai Lee were good, but they weren't that good. I'm willing to bet that if it came down to a fight between them and the Imperial Firebenders, the two would probably be about evenly matched.

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    Avearia

    [147]Sep 13, 2008
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    Toph hasn't MASTERED Metalbending, just as Aang hasn't mastered Earthbending. he can still bend earth, but in the last season, Toph tells Aang that his "Earthbending could use some more work, too". Maybe Toph has to have contact with the metal now, but later on when she's honed her abilities to a T, she'll be able to do much more.

    And, how did this discussion turn from "Metalbending's limits" to "Toph's potential and abilities"? Toph is the self-proclaimed greatest earthbender in the world, and admittably the only metalbender in history. at the age of TWELVE. even though her parents almost CONSTANTLY WATCHED HER before this. Doesn't that say enough about her character and ability?

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    TitanPredator

    [148]Sep 14, 2008
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    Avearia wrote:

    Toph hasn't MASTERED Metalbending, just as Aang hasn't mastered Earthbending. he can still bend earth, but in the last season, Toph tells Aang that his "Earthbending could use some more work, too". Maybe Toph has to have contact with the metal now, but later on when she's honed her abilities to a T, she'll be able to do much more.

    And, how did this discussion turn from "Metalbending's limits" to "Toph's potential and abilities"? Toph is the self-proclaimed greatest earthbender in the world, and admittably the only metalbender in history. at the age of TWELVE. even though her parents almost CONSTANTLY WATCHED HER before this. Doesn't that say enough about her character and ability?

    Toph needs to have contact with earth or metal to bend, unlike some other Earthbenders. She needs to "see"the earth with her feet. If she doesn't she cant bend. Same with metal. She needs to "see" the small parts of earth inside the metal to bend. So if she doesn't have contact I don't think she can metalbend. That is where Toph's limits are for metalbending. And Earthbending.

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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [149]Sep 14, 2008
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    TitanPredator wrote:
    Avearia wrote:

    Toph hasn't MASTERED Metalbending, just as Aang hasn't mastered Earthbending. he can still bend earth, but in the last season, Toph tells Aang that his "Earthbending could use some more work, too". Maybe Toph has to have contact with the metal now, but later on when she's honed her abilities to a T, she'll be able to do much more.

    And, how did this discussion turn from "Metalbending's limits" to "Toph's potential and abilities"? Toph is the self-proclaimed greatest earthbender in the world, and admittably the only metalbender in history. at the age of TWELVE. even though her parents almost CONSTANTLY WATCHED HER before this. Doesn't that say enough about her character and ability?

    Toph needs to have contact with earth or metal to bend, unlike some other Earthbenders. She needs to "see"the earth with her feet. If she doesn't she cant bend. Same with metal. She needs to "see" the small parts of earth inside the metal to bend. So if she doesn't have contact I don't think she can metalbend. That is where Toph's limits are for metalbending. And Earthbending.

    I can agree with that much! . But I think those abilities are what make her the most naturally powerful bender in the show!
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [150]Sep 14, 2008
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    Avearia wrote:

    Toph hasn't MASTERED Metalbending, just as Aang hasn't mastered Earthbending. he can still bend earth, but in the last season, Toph tells Aang that his "Earthbending could use some more work, too". Maybe Toph has to have contact with the metal now, but later on when she's honed her abilities to a T, she'll be able to do much more.

    And, how did this discussion turn from "Metalbending's limits" to "Toph's potential and abilities"? Toph is the self-proclaimed greatest earthbender in the world, and admittably the only metalbender in history. at the age of TWELVE. even though her parents almost CONSTANTLY WATCHED HER before this. Doesn't that say enough about her character and ability?

    EXACTLY!
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [151]Sep 14, 2008
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    yogi_tulsii wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:

    How do you think Earthbenders levitate rock? They STOMP on the ground to get rock to be their ally. For every Earthbender in the world to levitate a rock, they all have to have a connection to the ground... That is why Air is their opposite element, because as Human Beings and Earthbenders, their connection to the ground is frighteningly crucial.... They all have to have a touch, feel, and physical connection to the ground in order to bend squat

    Bumi didnt have to. Thus it is likely for Bumi to do what I mentioned. True, not every Earthbender can do that, or think of that but Bumi is one of the greatest earthbenders, and a crazy genius.

    True, but he's not THE greatest...
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [152]Sep 14, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy, I agree with most of the things you are saying. But I think we can give the "Toph beat the Dai Lee" example a bit of a rest. The Dai Lee were good, but they weren't that good. I'm willing to bet that if it came down to a fight between them and the Imperial Firebenders, the two would probably be about evenly matched.

    True, but there techniques originated from the teachings of one of the most powerful Avatars we will ever see, and the fact that Toph managed to own them like that, is a merit that shouldn't be forgotten.
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [153]Sep 14, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Avearia wrote:

    Toph hasn't MASTERED Metalbending, just as Aang hasn't mastered Earthbending. he can still bend earth, but in the last season, Toph tells Aang that his "Earthbending could use some more work, too". Maybe Toph has to have contact with the metal now, but later on when she's honed her abilities to a T, she'll be able to do much more.

    And, how did this discussion turn from "Metalbending's limits" to "Toph's potential and abilities"? Toph is the self-proclaimed greatest earthbender in the world, and admittably the only metalbender in history. at the age of TWELVE. even though her parents almost CONSTANTLY WATCHED HER before this. Doesn't that say enough about her character and ability?

    EXACTLY!
    I have said all of that in the Most Powerful benders thread! You are a mind reader! LOL, speaking of that, this is probably going to turn into another "Most Powerful Benders" thread...
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    Axrendale

    [154]Sep 14, 2008
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    ^^ Personally, I don't mind that. Fun arguments like the "Most Powerful Benders" thread, are what's keeping this place alive
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [155]Sep 14, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    ^^ Personally, I don't mind that. Fun arguments like the "Most Powerful Benders" thread, are what's keeping this place alive
    I couldn't agree more. That thread was unforgettable!
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    Axrendale

    [156]Sep 14, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy, I agree with most of the things you are saying. But I think we can give the "Toph beat the Dai Lee" example a bit of a rest. The Dai Lee were good, but they weren't that good. I'm willing to bet that if it came down to a fight between them and the Imperial Firebenders, the two would probably be about evenly matched.

    True, but there techniques originated from the teachings of one of the most powerful Avatars we will ever see, and the fact that Toph managed to own them like that, is a merit that shouldn't be forgotten.

    I don't think that Avatar Kyoshi was really any more powerful than any other Avatars. I think that they all posess more or less the same power, some might be more skilled than others, but we really haven't seen enough to be sure.

    Speaking of the Dai Lee, I have always wondered - do they know some partial metal-bending? They seem to be very, very accurate with those chain-handcuff things that they shoot out of their sleeves to capture people. Some bending direction, or just very good aim?

    Edited on 09/14/2008 1:09pm
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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [157]Sep 14, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy, I agree with most of the things you are saying. But I think we can give the "Toph beat the Dai Lee" example a bit of a rest. The Dai Lee were good, but they weren't that good. I'm willing to bet that if it came down to a fight between them and the Imperial Firebenders, the two would probably be about evenly matched.

    True, but there techniques originated from the teachings of one of the most powerful Avatars we will ever see, and the fact that Toph managed to own them like that, is a merit that shouldn't be forgotten.

    I don't think that Avatar Kyoshi was really any more powerful than any other Avatars. I think that they all posess more or less the same power, some might be more skilled than others, but we really haven't seen enough to be sure.

    Speaking of the Dai Lee, I have always wondered - do they no some partial metal-bending? They seem to be very, very accurate with those chain-handcuff things that they shoot out of their sleeves to capture people. Some bending direction, or just very good aim?

    True, but it's her brutal ability to make tough decisions that makes her very powerful... I don't strike Kyoshi as the kind of person who holds back... And regardless, she is still an Avatar, so Toph = Legend. I am fairly certain the Dai Li do not no Metal-Bending... They are skilled with those cuffs, but it says NO WHERE that they have Metal-based abilities, and I wouldn't have it any other way...
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    Axrendale

    [158]Sep 14, 2008
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    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy, I agree with most of the things you are saying. But I think we can give the "Toph beat the Dai Lee" example a bit of a rest. The Dai Lee were good, but they weren't that good. I'm willing to bet that if it came down to a fight between them and the Imperial Firebenders, the two would probably be about evenly matched.

    True, but there techniques originated from the teachings of one of the most powerful Avatars we will ever see, and the fact that Toph managed to own them like that, is a merit that shouldn't be forgotten.

    I don't think that Avatar Kyoshi was really any more powerful than any other Avatars. I think that they all posess more or less the same power, some might be more skilled than others, but we really haven't seen enough to be sure.

    Speaking of the Dai Lee, I have always wondered - do they no some partial metal-bending? They seem to be very, very accurate with those chain-handcuff things that they shoot out of their sleeves to capture people. Some bending direction, or just very good aim?

    True, but it's her brutal ability to make tough decisions that makes her very powerful... I don't strike Kyoshi as the kind of person who holds back... And regardless, she is still an Avatar, so Toph = Legend. I am fairly certain the Dai Li do not no Metal-Bending... They are skilled with those cuffs, but it says NO WHERE that they have Metal-based abilities, and I wouldn't have it any other way...

    They definitely don't know how to metal-bend per se, but I think they definitely have an affinity - they could probably learn the technique, if Toph was willing to teach it (which she wouldn't be, not to the Dai Lee).

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    ThisCrazyGuy

    [159]Sep 14, 2008
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    Axrendale wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Axrendale wrote:

    ThisCrazyGuy, I agree with most of the things you are saying. But I think we can give the "Toph beat the Dai Lee" example a bit of a rest. The Dai Lee were good, but they weren't that good. I'm willing to bet that if it came down to a fight between them and the Imperial Firebenders, the two would probably be about evenly matched.

    True, but there techniques originated from the teachings of one of the most powerful Avatars we will ever see, and the fact that Toph managed to own them like that, is a merit that shouldn't be forgotten.

    I don't think that Avatar Kyoshi was really any more powerful than any other Avatars. I think that they all posess more or less the same power, some might be more skilled than others, but we really haven't seen enough to be sure.

    Speaking of the Dai Lee, I have always wondered - do they no some partial metal-bending? They seem to be very, very accurate with those chain-handcuff things that they shoot out of their sleeves to capture people. Some bending direction, or just very good aim?

    True, but it's her brutal ability to make tough decisions that makes her very powerful... I don't strike Kyoshi as the kind of person who holds back... And regardless, she is still an Avatar, so Toph = Legend. I am fairly certain the Dai Li do not no Metal-Bending... They are skilled with those cuffs, but it says NO WHERE that they have Metal-based abilities, and I wouldn't have it any other way...

    They definitely don't know how to metal-bend per se, but I think they definitely have an affinity - they could probably learn the technique, if Toph was willing to teach it (which she wouldn't be, not to the Dai Lee).

    Probably... I could actually see her teaching it to Aang...
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    AllieAllie

    [160]Sep 14, 2008
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    I can actually see that happening too. By the way, this has been really bothering me. In the series finale, Bumi was explaining how he rewon control of Omashu, and in the flashback, he was bieng held in a cage or big box or whatever, and he broke out of it when the solar eclipse hit, right? I don't know if Iwas just seeing things, but didn't he metalbend his way out of the cage?

    Edited on 09/14/2008 2:43pm
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