Join

We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Zuko and Toph

  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [61]Jan 4, 2009
    • member since: 08/29/08
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 1,393
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Toph's senses have proved to be on and off at times. She CAN sense objects in the Air, how do you explain "The Blind Bandit"? As I said, her senses have their good AND bad moments. And Toph would have been able to block Katara's attack. She definitely would have been able to sense those Ice Daggers. There is a massive difference between a quiet wave and a group of flying ice knives, based on sound, at least for Toph.

    And Toph WAS BLIND-SIDED in the Zuko situation. An attack was the last thing in the world that she was expecting.

    Toph > Azula > Katara.


    Toph has just gotten used to what movements make what happen. You'll notice in the Blind Bandit that she sensed how her opponets were moving and then reacted to it. But because she didn't recognize the way Aang was moving, he beat her.

    Second, Zuko said "Who's there", and then sent a low-powered fire blast in the dirrection of the noise Toph had made. It was easy to block, or jump over, and not intended to cause a lot of damage. Toph would have done the same thing.

    After Zuko sent the fire blast, Toph yelled, "It's me!", and bent a pilar of stone in front of her, REACTING to the way Zuko moved. Then she took a step back.

    But Toph had never experianced that kind of attack before, so she didn't know that fire curves when it moves around an object. THAT is why she got burned- lack of experiance. Not becuase she was blindsided.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [62]Jan 4, 2009
    • member since: 08/10/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 700
    _Flutterlight_ wrote:
    ThisCrazyGuy wrote:
    Toph's senses have proved to be on and off at times. She CAN sense objects in the Air, how do you explain "The Blind Bandit"? As I said, her senses have their good AND bad moments. And Toph would have been able to block Katara's attack. She definitely would have been able to sense those Ice Daggers. There is a massive difference between a quiet wave and a group of flying ice knives, based on sound, at least for Toph.

    And Toph WAS BLIND-SIDED in the Zuko situation. An attack was the last thing in the world that she was expecting.

    Toph > Azula > Katara.


    Toph has just gotten used to what movements make what happen. You'll notice in the Blind Bandit that she sensed how her opponets were moving and then reacted to it. But because she didn't recognize the way Aang was moving, he beat her.

    Second, Zuko said "Who's there", and then sent a low-powered fire blast in the dirrection of the noise Toph had made. It was easy to block, or jump over, and not intended to cause a lot of damage. Toph would have done the same thing.

    After Zuko sent the fire blast, Toph yelled, "It's me!", and bent a pilar of stone in front of her, REACTING to the way Zuko moved. Then she took a step back.

    But Toph had never experianced that kind of attack before, so she didn't know that fire curves when it moves around an object. THAT is why she got burned- lack of experiance. Not becuase she was blindsided.
    Exactly my point, she had no idea how to fight an Airbender back then... Now she does, considering she's been travelling with the Avatar for the past year...

    Yes, but Fire is different from Earth... It doesn't matter how un-powerful Zuko's blast was, the point is, it's freaking Fire, it is always going to burn the hell out of you, and Toph's feet are considered her version of eyes, so imaginably, that was quite a painful move, and she still managed to Earthbend him a distance away. She wasn't expecting it, it was quick and agile, and she was completely un-prepared for that attack...

    And Toph pretty much knows all the bending styles now.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [63]Jan 4, 2009
    • member since: 08/10/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 700
    Toph isn't invincible, but her taking Azula or Katara seems so fitting and likely.
    Edited on 01/05/2009 2:47pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [64]Jan 4, 2009
    • member since: 08/29/08
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 1,393
    Maybe after she's practiced fighting people with similar bending styles, but I maintain that when Zuko had to decided who would help him fight Azula, Toph was not prepaired for that kind of battle and would have lost.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [65]Jan 5, 2009
    • member since: 08/10/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 700
    _Flutterlight_ wrote:
    Maybe after she's practiced fighting people with similar bending styles, but I maintain that when Zuko had to decided who would help him fight Azula, Toph was not prepaired for that kind of battle and would have lost.
    I respectfully disagree. I think Toph is already more powerful than Katara and Azula.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of primallynx

    primallynx

    [66]Jan 5, 2009
    • member since: 11/13/07
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 474

    As awesome as Toph is, I think Azula would beat her, eventually. Azula is perfect at noticing and exploiting an opponents weaknesses. And while Toph rules, she is still a reactionary fighter, needing an enemy to move before she can. Azula would use this to her advantage and take Toph down.

    Be a hell of a good fight though.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [67]Jan 5, 2009
    • member since: 08/10/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 700
    primallynx wrote:

    As awesome as Toph is, I think Azula would beat her, eventually. Azula is perfect at noticing and exploiting an opponents weaknesses. And while Toph rules, she is still a reactionary fighter, needing an enemy to move before she can. Azula would use this to her advantage and take Toph down.

    Be a hell of a good fight though.

    But any connection Azula has to the ground, Toph can detect, with or without Azula having to move... Azula is great at picking out weaknesses, but Toph's amount of weaknesses is quite small... Azula could mentally taunt Toph for a while, but Toph is smart enough to look at the big picture, and considering Azula's recent insanity-attack, I don't really think she would have much to mouth off about... Unless Azula could permanently fly, Toph could beat her, because Azula has to touch the ground at some point, and Toph's senses are 24/7 gifts that allow her to hear sounds through the air, and feel vibrations through the ground... And Azula wouldn't necessarily have to move for Toph to make an attack... Toph senses even the most minor things, from people's heartbeats (even if they are a distance away) from hearing people BREATHE (even if they are a distance away)... Azula would HAVE to move if she wants to get any important attacks in anyway...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [68]Jan 5, 2009
    • member since: 08/10/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 700
    It is like I said before, Toph isn't invincible, but she is basically one of the most powerful Earth manipulators in all of fiction, and she has both pros and cons concerning her battle with either Katara or Azula, but for the most part I think people will find that the odds are more stacked against Katara and Azula, than they are towards Toph...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [69]Jan 5, 2009
    • member since: 08/29/08
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 1,393
    Well, here's one big weakness-> Toph needs her feet to see, and Azula had insane firebending skills from the commet.

    All Azula would have to do would be to heat the ground up enough to burn Toph's feet, and she'd be helpless.

    That pretty much trumps Toph's advantage over Katara.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ThisCrazyGuy

    ThisCrazyGuy

    [70]Jan 6, 2009
    • member since: 08/10/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 700
    _Flutterlight_ wrote:
    Well, here's one big weakness-> Toph needs her feet to see, and Azula had insane firebending skills from the commet.

    All Azula would have to do would be to heat the ground up enough to burn Toph's feet, and she'd be helpless.

    That pretty much trumps Toph's advantage over Katara.
    Actually, Toph can bend and sense with her hands... Although not greatly, just thought I'd point that out...

    Toph is PREPARED for the attack this time, and not taken by surprise (like in "The Western Air Temple"), and blocks it off with a huge brick wall... If she was in her rock or metal armour, I don't think this would be much of a problem for her... Insane Azula would get owned by Toph, ESPECIALLY WITHOUT THE COMET... See? They ALL have huge weaknesses, including Toph, I'm just saying Toph doesn't have as much you would think...
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [71]Jan 6, 2009
    • member since: 08/29/08
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 1,393
    That is correct- Under normal circumstances after the comet Toph would wipe the floor with Azula.

    But I have been adressing the reason why Zuko picked Katara to help him in his battle against Azula, DURING THE COMET, as was the original topic of discussion. I was not discussing wether Azula could beat Toph in a brawl, or at least I didn't think that's what we were arguing about.

    Metal and rock armor, during the comet, would not help Toph, because both dirt and metal are exellent heat conductors. Yes, it worked against those guys in the balloon, but Toph wasn't burnt because the balloon guys sent pretty average looking fire-blasts at her.

    Azula can use blue fire and lightning, which would render the armor useless. Zuko would have known that, which is why he would have picked Katara as his fighting partner.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Falcondude123

    Falcondude123

    [72]Jan 6, 2009
    • member since: 09/24/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,602
    KingofSpades209 wrote:
    I agree with Libraman. Toph would lose easily in my opinion.


    It depends on who Bryke would give the first shot to.

    But, the field being level, and everything equal, this is how I see it going:

    Toph- Throw a big boulder.
    Azula- Dodge, counter with fireball
    Toph- Earth shield, sinkhole beneath Azula's feet
    Azula- sinks, blasts her way out.
    Toph- Throws several consecutive boulders
    Azula-Dodge, dodge, dodge, gets HIT! Falls backward
    Toph- Throws Earth spikes
    Azula- rolls to side, jumps up, charges lightning
    Toph- Puts on earth armor, runs towards Azula
    Azula- still charging
    Toph- pulls back a rocky fist as she runs
    *background music reaches peek*
    Toph- swings
    Azula- zaps
    ...
    ...
    BZZZTBOOOMM!!!
    Toph-tumbles to ground unconscious, a bloody stain on her torso
    Azula- stagers up to her feet slowly, walks towards unconscious Toph
    Toph- "ugh... what hapenned...?"
    Azula- ZAP!!
    ...
    ...
    Azula-falls to ground dead
    Iroh- standing behind her with smoking finger; it was HIS lightning.
    (I know I said everything even between them, but c'mone! Toph can't die! I would cry! So Iroh wins! )
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of gilvatar

    gilvatar

    [73]Jan 6, 2009
    • member since: 08/05/06
    • level: 17
    • rank: The Crazy Neighbor
    • posts: 5,201
    _Flutterlight_ wrote:
    That is correct- Under normal circumstances after the comet Toph would wipe the floor with Azula.

    But I have been adressing the reason why Zuko picked Katara to help him in his battle against Azula, DURING THE COMET, as was the original topic of discussion. I was not discussing wether Azula could beat Toph in a brawl, or at least I didn't think that's what we were arguing about.

    Metal and rock armor, during the comet, would not help Toph, because both dirt and metal are exellent heat conductors. Yes, it worked against those guys in the balloon, but Toph wasn't burnt because the balloon guys sent pretty average looking fire-blasts at her.

    Azula can use blue fire and lightning, which would render the armor useless. Zuko would have known that, which is why he would have picked Katara as his fighting partner.
    I'm not taking sides or anything bbut Aang used rock armor against Ozai & it worked. Didn't he?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of _Flutterlight_

    _Flutterlight_

    [74]Jan 6, 2009
    • member since: 08/29/08
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 1,393
    I don't think it did. Ozai broke the rock shield apart enough for him to blast Aang, and only with normal fire blasts. He didn't use Azula's prefered, and more powerful, blue fire.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
Shows | Movies | Web | People | News | Videos | Community
Listings | Photos | Forums | Closed Captioning | Rating Guidelines
CBS Entertainment About CBS Interactive | About TV.com | Contact Us | Jobs | Advertise
© 2016 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. TV Guide Digital Network | Privacy Policy | Ad Choice | Terms of Use