| mellomuse wrote: | ||||
|
Who the hell told you about my goat?
Nickelodeon (ended 2008)
| mellomuse wrote: | ||||
|
Who the hell told you about my goat?
| animekitsune wrote: |
| oh come on would you fight your own dad? It wasn't Zuko's fault. He was much better than his father at heart. Ozai only cares about winning the war. he has no foresight. Zuko and azula both have a more stategic mind. Mostly azula. but zuko too. Ozai.... the fire nation's doomed after he dies. think about it. |
| PrinceZukoLover wrote: |
| OH NO on nick.com it says on the schedule that Avatar Day will air this week and The Blind Bandit will air next week |
Epp!!! It does say that... though when I click on show all show times it only shows one at a time Hummm.?? Lets hope it's wrong again.
| FreakishChild wrote: | ||
I can hear your PoV creeping in. Your standards dictate Ozai a horrid father yet by the Fire Nation's Zuko is a weak son. They view him as a bad heir that would make a horrible ruler, so he needs to be cut off. Would YOU want someone who you think has that kind of potential as a poor leader ruling your country? Would you want Hitler in charge? For the Fire Nation Zuko might be just as bad. He could be so poor a ruler that he plunges their beloved nation into disorder and chaos. So am I saying Zuko is a failure? By the Fire Nation's standard he is. Are they wrong? Some might think so. But the Fire Nation think they are right. People decide for themselves who and what is right and wrong, black or white, good and evil, which is yang which is yin. Ozai decided Zuko was wrong and a failure. You disagree with him and Ozai would disagree with you. I've thought of this. What Ozai did wasn't bad: it's at what level and how you view it that makes it bad. |
| FreakishChild wrote: | ||
I can hear your PoV creeping in. Your standards dictate Ozai a horrid father yet by the Fire Nation's Zuko is a weak son. They view him as a bad heir that would make a horrible ruler, so he needs to be cut off. Would YOU want someone who you think has that kind of potential as a poor leader ruling your country? Would you want Hitler in charge? For the Fire Nation Zuko might be just as bad. He could be so poor a ruler that he plunges their beloved nation into disorder and chaos. So am I saying Zuko is a failure? By the Fire Nation's standard he is. Are they wrong? Some might think so. But the Fire Nation think they are right. People decide for themselves who and what is right and wrong, black or white, good and evil, which is yang which is yin. Ozai decided Zuko was wrong and a failure. You disagree with him and Ozai would disagree with you. I've thought of this. What Ozai did wasn't bad: it's at what level and how you view it that makes it bad. |
I have to disagree with you that it's the PoV of the firenation that Zuko is a bad heir and would make a horrible ruler.?? (With the exception of propaganda being spread)?? I don't think the general public knows even the details of his banishment.?? But think of the crew member's reaction to what happened to him in the duel.?? They all had expressions of pity and shock.?? I didn't get the impression that they thought it was just treatment or that he got what he deserved.?? Now among the nobles and such who attended the duel the opinion may be different.
| FreakishChild wrote: | ||
I can hear your PoV creeping in. Your standards dictate Ozai a horrid father yet by the Fire Nation's Zuko is a weak son. They view him as a bad heir that would make a horrible ruler, so he needs to be cut off. Would YOU want someone who you think has that kind of potential as a poor leader ruling your country? Would you want Hitler in charge? For the Fire Nation Zuko might be just as bad. He could be so poor a ruler that he plunges their beloved nation into disorder and chaos. So am I saying Zuko is a failure? By the Fire Nation's standard he is. Are they wrong? Some might think so. But the Fire Nation think they are right. People decide for themselves who and what is right and wrong, black or white, good and evil, which is yang which is yin. Ozai decided Zuko was wrong and a failure. You disagree with him and Ozai would disagree with you. I've thought of this. What Ozai did wasn't bad: it's at what level and how you view it that makes it bad. |
Well I'm trying to look at it from as many points of view as possible, but me being me that's hard, hence the one-track mind.?? I'm looking at it from my PoV and what I think, as this is something of an opinionated thread.??Of course he is a failure in the FNs point of view, but that's not who I'm talking about.??
| FreakishChild wrote: |
| I can hear your PoV creeping in... |
| FreakishChild wrote: |
| Most of you are disagreeing with my view on the Fire Nation's opinions. How much of the Fire Nation have you seen that Zuko might be the tragic prince for them? The only Fire Nationalists I've seen are Zuko's crew but they are meant to be loyal to him. Apparently you all are seeing a majority of the Fire Nation that isn't there or I'm blind. Can anyone tell me which one it is? Yes they can but does it make them right? For them it is right yet for another it could be wrong. It could be that in your mind, your reality, it is the truth, but it's only your reality not all of reality. Yet is all reality the only reality that exists? No, there's your reality and mine, not just all of reality. No one can ever know all reality just there own yet sometimes all reality is your own, or is it just all you know of reality? In my reality, from what I've evaluated and assumed for myself, the Fire Nation's beliefs are based on the Fire Lord's. In his mind Zuko was WRONG so in my version of the Fire Nation that makes the majority of Fire Nationalist view him as a failure too. But that's just me. What do I think personally? My opinion don't mean squat. Hehehe, if you're all wondering why I'm so crazy I've getting WAY too much into 1984. Remember when Morpheus asked Neo "you really think that's air your breathing?" Try thinking about it on a philosophical level. Is Zuko a failure? He is if that is how you view him. |
I stated in my earlier post why I personally don't think of Zuko as a failure, as you know. However, I have to agree with you that at least the Fire Nation upper echelon (i.e. most of the military officers, royals, high ranking civilians etc.) do consider Zuko a coward and a failure. In the Zuko-Ozai agni kai scene, Uncle Iroh was the only one not able to watch; everyone else seemed to be like "hey, if he's not gonna fight then that's what he gets." It's hard to tell about the rest of the fire nation population; some seem to be very humane and sympathetic (like Zuko's crew), some obviously buy into the whole "fighting is cool and honorable, obliterate your opponents" thing (like those little kids in The Deserter ).
This brings up another interesting point, and I'm gonna go start a new thread on it so that it doesn't take away from this discussion about whether or not Zuko is a failure.
| mellomuse wrote: | ||
I stated in my earlier post why I personally don't think of Zuko as a failure, as you know. However, I have to agree with you that at least the Fire Nation upper echelon (i.e. most of the military officers, royals, high ranking civilians etc.) do consider Zuko a coward and a failure. In the Zuko-Ozai agni kai scene, Uncle Iroh was the only one not able to watch; everyone else seemed to be like "hey, if he's not gonna fight then that's what he gets." It's hard to tell about the rest of the fire nation population; some seem to be very humane and sympathetic (like Zuko's crew), some obviously buy into the whole "fighting is cool and honorable, obliterate your opponents" thing (like those little kids in The Deserter This brings up another interesting point, and I'm gonna go start a new thread on it |
I do believe Firebenders who aren???t so enthusiastic about Ozai???s plan of world domination would be sympathetic towards Zuko???s situation, yet they still feel ???a victim perhaps but still the Fire Lord???s son.??? It???s happened in real life, victim is also villain.
But I don???t think that means people should ignore Zuko. It???d be nice if they gave him a chance, it???s his decision through whether to screw it up or not.
From the LotR poem you posted it seems that you believe he???ll be a great Fire Nation leader one day. Personally I don???t want to see that happen. Why do I not want to see Zuko a leader the fan girls rave at him? Because I LOVE him as the Blue Spirit, so much more kickass!
| FreakishChild wrote: |
| I do believe Firebenders who aren???t so enthusiastic about Ozai???s plan of world domination would be sympathetic towards Zuko???s situation, yet they still feel ???a victim perhaps but still the Fire Lord???s son.??? It???s happened in real life, victim is also villain. But I don???t think that means people should ignore Zuko. It???d be nice if they gave him a chance, it???s his decision through whether to screw it up or not. From the LotR poem you posted it seems that you believe he???ll be a great Fire Nation leader one day. Personally I don???t want to see that happen. Why do I not want to see Zuko a leader the fan girls rave at him? Because I LOVE him as the Blue Spirit, so much more kickass! |
Hey, it's like a year and a half before we get a new Fire Lord,??the Blue Spirit??has lots of time to kick people's butts!?? So, your version of the ideal ending might be more like this scenario:?? Iroh becomes Fire Lord (assuming he's still alive
) at the end, and he names Zuko as his heir.?? That way, we would have our benevolent Fire Lord and yet Zuko would be free to go to Blue Spirit stuff, I dunno, just for the heck of it.?? Just to impress the girls.??
