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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

The Decline of the Martial Arts Aspect of the Show

Did ATLA Abandon Martial Arts part of bending?-If So, Was It Smart or a Mistake?

  • Avatar of Falcondude123

    Falcondude123

    [1]Aug 18, 2008
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    Okay, so was it just me, or did the show start out all about mastering specific body movements and fighting techniques in order to bend, and by the end the characters could pretty much just twitch a finger and cause a rockslide/tidal wave/tornado/explosion???

    Seriously, I loved how the effectiveness of the bending was directly connected to the effectiveness of the fighting moves. Like if you took away the elements and put th two fighters closer together, doing the same movements, the fight would turn out the same.

    But by the end of it, that all changed! What happened??!

    Thoughts? Comments? Do you agree/disagree?

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  • Avatar of TheGreatBishop

    TheGreatBishop

    [2]Aug 18, 2008
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    Can you show some examples first? All I'm thinking of is, Combustion Man & the final fight between Ozai & Aang.

    But no, that hasn't really bothered me that much, to me it's more so how they actually use the elements in creative and different ways.
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    isabelwhatx

    [3]Aug 18, 2008
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    I didn't notice, either. In fact, I thought the earth bending martial arts was stronger than ever.
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    Axrendale

    [4]Aug 18, 2008
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    Actually, I think that the use of martial arts remained as good as it ever was. The reason why the last few episodes seemed to have moved away from it slightly was because a large part of those episodes involved Avatar State Aang, and various Sozin's Comet empowered firebenders. The extra power meant that less emphasis on the moves was required. Even so, the last few episodes managed to dish out some real beauties as far as the martial arts went.
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    -TheSecondSign-

    [5]Aug 18, 2008
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    Not really. It was, for the most part the same up until Sozin's Comet, and that was because of the comet.

    Combustion Man is an exception, but I didn't see anything completely godmodded up until Sozin's Comet.

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    WiseLad

    [6]Aug 18, 2008
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    combu had only one basic move, that depended on breathing

    and when Aang beat Ozai he used a move taught to him by Toph, so martial arts continued being part of most of the moves
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    Water78

    [7]Aug 19, 2008
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    not sure although i agree about the combusion man though
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    MarryLarry

    [8]Aug 19, 2008
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    Who needs karate when you have giant explosions?
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    Falcondude123

    [9]Aug 19, 2008
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    TheGreatBishop wrote:
    Can you show some examples first? All I'm thinking of is, Combustion Man & the final fight between Ozai & Aang.

    But no, that hasn't really bothered me that much, to me it's more so how they actually use the elements in creative and different ways.


    Examples??? Are you serious??? Are you people blind???
    -Azula forcing her fists downward and suddenly she flies like a frikkin rocket! DUH!

    -Ozai shooting lightning without any martial art setup, just flickin his wrist! DUH!!

    -Toph making an impossibly detailed sand-castle replica of BaSingSe with a simple step into the ground! DUH!!!

    -Zuko casting massive flames at Azula just by slowly swinging his arms together! DUH!!!

    Seriously, guys, it seems like the power of these characters was totally exagerated in the latest parts of the series!! Just look carefully and you can see a billion of these examples!!!
    It used to be that the characters had to really do amazing or complex moves to do even a little bit of bending, (especially waterbending; the whole TaiChi thing), but now they raise their arms and breathe and suddenly Azula is in chains, or vice-versa.
    C'mone, guys, I know it's a cardinal sin on these forums to express any regrett over what the creators decided, but be honest; it's pretty obvious that the level of bending is no more connected to the level of martial arts mastery.
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  • Avatar of TheGreatBishop

    TheGreatBishop

    [10]Aug 19, 2008
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    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Ozai shooting lightning without any martial art setup, just flickin his wrist! DUH!!
    That never happened, he did set it up.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Toph making an impossibly detailed sand-castle replica of BaSingSe with a simple step into the ground! DUH!!!
    She had already built the castle, and just hit the ground to show everyone.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Zuko casting massive flames at Azula just by slowly swinging his arms together! DUH!!!
    That was during Sozin's Comet when everyone got a massive boost of power.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    Seriously, guys, it seems like the power of these characters was totally exagerated in the latest parts of the series!! Just look carefully and you can see a billion of these examples!!! It used to be that the characters had to really do amazing or complex moves to do even a little bit of bending, (especially waterbending; the whole TaiChi thing)
    In the very first episode Katara was waterbending without doing complex moves at all. Same with Aang and his airball.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    they raise their arms and breathe and suddenly Azula is in chains, or vice-versa.
    That's not even how it happened, you're clearly exagerating, she used hand motions to lift the water from below to encase them in the water bubble, she didn't just breathe.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    C'mon, guys, I know it's a cardinal sin on these forums to express any regret over what the creators decided, but be honest; it's pretty obvious that the level of bending is no more connected to the level of martial arts mastery.
    I guess later on in the series the creators decided to show us more creative ways to bend instead of only using martial arts.

    Personally that wasn't really a big problem with hence why I didn't really notice it, but I can see how a few people might find that upsetting.

    Edited on 08/19/2008 5:32pm
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    MarryLarry

    [11]Aug 19, 2008
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    Eh, complain if you want. The fight scenes were still awesome to me, whether they swirled they're arms in the air like mad baboons or shot fire from their brain.

    Besides, Bumi kind of implied less movements are required the more advanced you get at a certain element when he moved rocks by just looking and thinking.

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    -TheSecondSign-

    [12]Aug 19, 2008
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    None of those are overpowered.

    Ozai is the FIRELORD. He's the most powerful firebender, and possibly the most powerful nonavatar bender in the whole series.

    Combustion Man was ridiculously powerful, holding off attacks from Katara, Zuko, Toph, and Aang sometimes in groups all at once, but he was easier to take down because of his apparent inability to control his bending(The explosions that happened after being hit in the forehead, and the lack of his arm and leg).

    Also, Sokka, quite possibly the weakest character in the whole series, killed Combustion Man with a bent piece of metal. I don't find that overpowered at all.

    Katara did use martial arts, and the signature form of waterbending, flowing movement. She only performed it that quickly because they were standing directly OVER WATER, something that most fights don't occur in.

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    -TheSecondSign-

    [13]Aug 19, 2008
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    Azula flying?

    You mean the rocket trick? It only boosted her into the air, big deal. And she only flew during the comet, and even with her power, it required all four arms 90% of the time(Save erratic lightning blasts), and took a huge amount of force to keep her floating. Outside of the comet she would hardly be that good at "flying".

    Granted, Ozai and Jeong Jeong flew, but even then, it was during the comet. Without it, they could probably fly only like Azula did, using all four limbs while jetting out huge bursts of flame, therefore greatly reducing their ability at ranged combat, since they have no arms.

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    TheGreatBishop

    [14]Aug 19, 2008
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    -TheSecondSign- wrote:

    None of those are overpowered.

    Ozai is the FIRELORD. He's the most powerful firebender, and possibly the most powerful nonavatar bender in the whole series.

    Combustion Man was ridiculously powerful, holding off attacks from Katara, Zuko, Toph, and Aang sometimes in groups all at once, but he was easier to take down because of his apparent inability to control his bending(The explosions that happened after being hit in the forehead, and the lack of his arm and leg).

    Also, Sokka, quite possibly the weakest character in the whole series, killed Combustion Man with a bent piece of metal. I don't find that overpowered at all.

    Katara did use martial arts, and the signature form of waterbending, flowing movement. She only performed it that quickly because they were standing directly OVER WATER, something that most fights don't occur in.

    He's not arguing their level of power, merely their lack of using martial arts.
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    sportsdude206

    [15]Aug 19, 2008
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    Some more examples:

    In "The Waterbending Scroll," Katara was teaching Aang to push and pull the water; she said it was all about getting the wrist movement perfectly. This was probably the simplest waterbending move known to man, and yet it still took a good deal of precision.
    However, in "The Southern Raiders," Katara simply stood on one foot and thought real hard, and the rain just stopped.

    In "The Avatar State," General Fong merely needed to close his hand to bury Katara alive.

    Whenever Aang entered the avatar state, all he had to do was point at any element he wanted to bend; and it would become an unstoppable and deadly force.

    I completely understand what the TC is saying, and I agree. Instead of the benders progressing by mastering the moves and learning how to be more precise, consistent, accurate, and quick to the point of perfection, they somehow found a way to just "willbend." They could airbend, waterbend, or earthbend by doing nothing more than pointing at it and pointing where they wanted it to go.

    Imho this is a result of the producers/writers getting a little lazy after a while because this was almost unheard of in the first season.
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    Axrendale

    [16]Aug 19, 2008
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    It's all about power; the more you have of it; the less exagerated you movements need to be. Nevertheless, I would say that a lot of people complaining are wrong to say that the movements weren't precise. They might have been miniscule, but they were very precise.
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    Eman5805

    [17]Aug 19, 2008
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    I thought Aang's opening volley to take down Ozai's airship was a pretty impressive display of martial arts. He did it again when training with Zuko. IMO, the martial arts themselves is really the way to get benders to focus their chi and release it in a quantifiable manner. It isn't required to bend. I mean is breathing martial arts? But, we've seen Katara freeze with her breath, of course Aang and Airbending, and multiple times we've seen fire breathing. I think once you reach a certain level of control and skill, you can probably bend without really moving at all. I mean in the AS Aang wasn't doing ANYTHING to keep all four elements perpetually moving around him.
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    sportsdude206

    [18]Aug 19, 2008
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    I disagree. Practice will not give you more power; it will make you more skilled and reduce your mistakes; but it won't bestow on you more than what you have.

    Similarly, reading and studying won't raise your iq; it will put more information in your brain and reduce your ignorance level; but it still can't give you more than you've been given.

    Think of the greatest real life martial artists. They know all the steps for every move in their respective styles and can execute them almost perfectly, but they still can't all of a sudden take shortcuts. They can't, and never will be able to point and their opponents and think about the move they want to do and it will suddenly take effect.

    I don't know; I might be getting somewhat off base. However, I definitely still think that the writers stopped incorporating as much martial arts as they had included at the start. And even though it did slightly detract from the battle scenes (or at least for me it did), they were still incredible.
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    sportsdude206

    [19]Aug 19, 2008
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    sportsdude206 wrote:
    I disagree. Practice will not give you more power; it will make you more skilled and reduce your mistakes; but it won't bestow on you more than what you have.

    Similarly, reading and studying won't raise your iq; it will put more information in your brain and reduce your ignorance level; but it still can't give you more than you've been given.

    Think of the greatest real life martial artists. They know all the steps for every move in their respective styles and can execute them almost perfectly, but they still can't all of a sudden take shortcuts. They can't, and never will be able to point and their opponents and think about the move they want to do and it will suddenly take effect.

    I don't know; I might be getting somewhat off base. However, I definitely still think that the writers stopped incorporating as much martial arts as they had included at the start. And even though it did slightly detract from the battle scenes (or at least for me it did), they were still incredible.


    that was to axrendale
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    TheGreatBishop

    [20]Aug 19, 2008
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    sportsdude206 wrote:
    Think of the greatest real life martial artists. They know all the steps for every move in their respective styles and can execute them almost perfectly, but they still can't all of a sudden take shortcuts. They can't, and never will be able to point and their opponents and think about the move they want to do and it will suddenly take effect.
    They also can't shoot fire from their finger tips.
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