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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

The Decline of the Martial Arts Aspect of the Show

Did ATLA Abandon Martial Arts part of bending?-If So, Was It Smart or a Mistake?

  • Avatar of IrohtheTea

    IrohtheTea

    [21]Aug 19, 2008
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    sportsdude206 wrote:
    I disagree. Practice will not give you more power; it will make you more skilled and reduce your mistakes; but it won't bestow on you more than what you have. Similarly, reading and studying won't raise your iq; it will put more information in your brain and reduce your ignorance level; but it still can't give you more than you've been given. Think of the greatest real life martial artists. They know all the steps for every move in their respective styles and can execute them almost perfectly, but they still can't all of a sudden take shortcuts. They can't, and never will be able to point and their opponents and think about the move they want to do and it will suddenly take effect. I don't know; I might be getting somewhat off base. However, I definitely still think that the writers stopped incorporating as much martial arts as they had included at the start. And even though it did slightly detract from the battle scenes (or at least for me it did), they were still incredible.

    hmm

    doesnt your heart get stronger if you practice (running, walking)

    doesnt your biceps and triceps get stronger if you practice?

    YES

    and same for bending too

    by practicing you can learn new moves, to make yourself more powerful.

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    WiseLad

    [22]Aug 20, 2008
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    moves of stopping and restarting should not need much movement (is why katara seemed to simply will the rain to stop)

    even in Avatar State, at the finale, Aang needed to move the hands to guide the element the way he wanted

    in simple terms for firebending, "just to shoot a fire blast" all is needed is pointing the finger or foot in some cases to where you want it to go, and it goes, but to be able to "fire whip" you need movement, and that is what martial arts is basically, a movement of the body to block a force(defensive move) or to extend force toward a certain direction in some cases(offensive move), and in other cases to lessen or increase resistance to another movement or to mirror the other movement(way Aang fought the bully at the headband, without even touching him)
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    sportsdude206

    [23]Aug 20, 2008
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    IrohtheTea wrote:

    sportsdude206 wrote:
    I disagree. Practice will not give you more power; it will make you more skilled and reduce your mistakes; but it won't bestow on you more than what you have. Similarly, reading and studying won't raise your iq; it will put more information in your brain and reduce your ignorance level; but it still can't give you more than you've been given. Think of the greatest real life martial artists. They know all the steps for every move in their respective styles and can execute them almost perfectly, but they still can't all of a sudden take shortcuts. They can't, and never will be able to point and their opponents and think about the move they want to do and it will suddenly take effect. I don't know; I might be getting somewhat off base. However, I definitely still think that the writers stopped incorporating as much martial arts as they had included at the start. And even though it did slightly detract from the battle scenes (or at least for me it did), they were still incredible.

    hmm

    doesnt your heart get stronger if you practice (running, walking)

    doesnt your biceps and triceps get stronger if you practice?

    YES

    and same for bending too

    by practicing you can learn new moves, to make yourself more powerful.

    Yes you're right.

    However, even though running a mile and weight lifting might become easier, you still have to run whole mile and lift the dumbells all the way up. The action might require less effort, and the quantity/distance you can lift/run might increase, but the entire motion still has to be produced.

    Similarly, in bending, performing a complex waterbending technique over and over would make it easier for you to bend using that method. It would probably even increase the amount of water you can bend while doing it, but the entire motion still has to be enacted for it to work.

    Feel free to argue on but just know that it would take nothing short of a perfect arguement to sway me from my views. Even if it was possible to become so good that you could "willbend,"(and I still don't think that it is) there is absolutely no way that a group of teenagers could accomplish this level of mastery with about a year's worth of training when it normally takes a fully realized avatar years of dedication to do it. Therefore, the martial moves should have been far more pronounced throughout the latter half of the series.

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    ddendong116

    [24]Aug 20, 2008
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    I agree with falcondude on this. I understand that all the characters we meet are exceptionally good in their area of bending. But the one example that REALLY bugs me is that Azula is able to summon lightning during the Final Agni Kai. Iroh said that, and I quote: "To perform the technique requires peace of mind." (S2E09, Book 2: Earth, "Bitter Work", Iroh) PEACE OF MIND?! Azula was mad effing insane!
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  • Avatar of IrohtheTea

    IrohtheTea

    [25]Aug 20, 2008
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    ddendong116 wrote:
    I agree with falcondude on this. I understand that all the characters we meet are exceptionally good in their area of bending. But the one example that REALLY bugs me is that Azula is able to summon lightning during the Final Agni Kai. Iroh said that, and I quote: "To perform the technique requires peace of mind." (S2E09, Book 2: Earth, "Bitter Work", Iroh) PEACE OF MIND?! Azula was mad effing insane!

    haha your forgetting one thing. SHE IS A EFFING PRODIGY and zuko is just a normal firebender who clawed all the way up there by practice. who cares if the martial arts declined? its still a good show

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  • Avatar of ddendong116

    ddendong116

    [26]Aug 20, 2008
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    :eyeroll:
    no sh*t, sherlock, of course its a good show. But being a prodigy shouldn't mean she has no limits.
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  • Avatar of IrohtheTea

    IrohtheTea

    [27]Aug 20, 2008
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    ddendong116 wrote:
    :eyeroll: no sh*t, sherlock, of course its a good show. But being a prodigy shouldn't mean she has no limits.

    but a didnt you see?

    at zuko alone, she can do above average firebending when she was young.

    dont you think she practiced?

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  • Avatar of ddendong116

    ddendong116

    [28]Aug 20, 2008
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    its not about practice! its about peace of mind, and christ, did u not watch the finale??? she banished all her servants, attacked her own hair and was hallucinating about her mother. i do NOT call that peace of mind!
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  • Avatar of IrohtheTea

    IrohtheTea

    [29]Aug 20, 2008
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    ddendong116 wrote:
    its not about practice! its about peace of mind, and christ, did u not watch the finale??? she banished all her servants, attacked her own hair and was hallucinating about her mother. i do NOT call that peace of mind!

    how about ozai at the invasion?

    was he in state of calm mind when he attacked zuko?

    i dont think so.

    conclusion: bryke made some mistakes theyre human too you know,

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    ddendong116

    [30]Aug 20, 2008
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    you kidding?
    Ozai was perfectly calm. a cold, deadly, steel kind of calm. a killer's calm. he saw what Zuko had decided, he processed it, he came out with one solution; death. there was no indecision, nothing disturbed him about it.
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  • Avatar of IrohtheTea

    IrohtheTea

    [31]Aug 20, 2008
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    ddendong116 wrote:
    you kidding? Ozai was perfectly calm. a cold, deadly, steel kind of calm. a killer's calm. he saw what Zuko had decided, he processed it, he came out with one solution; death. there was no indecision, nothing disturbed him about it.

    nope.

    when zuko said avatar was alive, he showed a little bit of anger and when zuko said "the avatar is probably leading this invasion, he could be heading here right now" ozai yelled and told zuko to leave.

    and when zuko said "i will not follow your orders"

    ozai yelled "you will obey me or your defiant breath will be your last!"

    i dont see him being calm.

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    ddendong116

    [32]Aug 20, 2008
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    ah, but when it comes to 'killing' Zuko, he is perfectly calm as he says, "But your penalty will be far steeper..." he closes his eyes, inhales, and welcomes the power of the sun. he is as calm as can be.
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  • Avatar of IrohtheTea

    IrohtheTea

    [33]Aug 20, 2008
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    ddendong116 wrote:
    ah, but when it comes to 'killing' Zuko, he is perfectly calm as he says, "But your penalty will be far steeper..." he closes his eyes, inhales, and welcomes the power of the sun. he is as calm as can be.

    hmm i will have to agree on that.

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  • Avatar of ddendong116

    ddendong116

    [34]Aug 20, 2008
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    *bows* it has been a pleasure debating with you, good sir. Your skills are profound. (my motto: always end a debate on a good note.)
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    WiseLad

    [35]Aug 21, 2008
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    what does peace of mind means?

    I mean, as much insane as he was, hitler was still calculating, even during his decision to kill himself

    she might have been insane, but part of Azula (inside her mind) thought she was doing what was needed. and she was focused on getting rid of silly zuzu

    I said part, because her seeing Ursa was an indication of a fight between id and super ego
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    powmaster

    [36]Aug 22, 2008
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    I think that falcondude has a point. But the bending only started to get separated from the martial arts in the finale during the comet, so we can forgive the creators.
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    powmaster

    [37]Aug 22, 2008
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    I think that falcondude has a point. But the bending only started to get separated from the martial arts in the finale during the comet, so we can forgive the creators.
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    Axrendale

    [38]Aug 22, 2008
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    My take on azula's ability to create lightning during her fight against Zuko is this: to a certain extent she was at peace. After days of emotional and mental turmoil and confusion, she had finally found something to focus all her strong feelings on: Zuko. He was a clean-cut enemy who she had been struggling with for time out mind, and along with the fact that she probably blamed him for Mai and Ty Lee's betrayal, Azula probably saw him as the source of most of her problems. Fighting and trying to kill him probably gave Azula a great feeling of inner peace. Although her mind was still in turmoil, she had managed to resolve her spiritual conflict to a certain degree, at least temporarily. She had no inner demons of the kind that prevented Zuko from creating lightning in 209. It is true that mental peace is also technically required for the creation of lightning, but that is where Azula's natural awesomeness kicks in as a means of explanation: she is a prodigal firebender who excels naturally at the art of manipulation; and manipulation (of energy) is what firebending is all about. She has used lightning many times before - summoning it was something that by this point she was able to do almost sub-consciously.

    So in conclusion, the reason that Azula was able to summon lightning was fighting and trying to kill Zuko gave her a sense of peace great enough that she was able to temporarily put her emotional conflict to rest (hence the huge smile on her face when Zuko and Katara crahed the coronation).Her natural skill allowed her to make up somewhat for the normally required mental stability.

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    Falcondude123

    [39]Aug 22, 2008
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    sportsdude206 wrote:
    Some more examples:

    In "The Waterbending Scroll," Katara was teaching Aang to push and pull the water; she said it was all about getting the wrist movement perfectly. This was probably the simplest waterbending move known to man, and yet it still took a good deal of precision.
    However, in "The Southern Raiders," Katara simply stood on one foot and thought real hard, and the rain just stopped.

    In "The Avatar State," General Fong merely needed to close his hand to bury Katara alive.

    Whenever Aang entered the avatar state, all he had to do was point at any element he wanted to bend; and it would become an unstoppable and deadly force.

    I completely understand what the TC is saying, and I agree. Instead of the benders progressing by mastering the moves and learning how to be more precise, consistent, accurate, and quick to the point of perfection, they somehow found a way to just "willbend." They could airbend, waterbend, or earthbend by doing nothing more than pointing at it and pointing where they wanted it to go.

    Imho this is a result of the producers/writers getting a little lazy after a while because this was almost unheard of in the first season.


    Thank You, good sir, for saying what I was trying to say in much better words; "willbending" is a gr8 way to put it!
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    PsychoPass

    [40]Aug 22, 2008
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    Falcondude123 wrote:
    sportsdude206 wrote:
    Some more examples:

    In "The Waterbending Scroll," Katara was teaching Aang to push and pull the water; she said it was all about getting the wrist movement perfectly. This was probably the simplest waterbending move known to man, and yet it still took a good deal of precision.
    However, in "The Southern Raiders," Katara simply stood on one foot and thought real hard, and the rain just stopped.

    In "The Avatar State," General Fong merely needed to close his hand to bury Katara alive.

    Whenever Aang entered the avatar state, all he had to do was point at any element he wanted to bend; and it would become an unstoppable and deadly force.

    I completely understand what the TC is saying, and I agree. Instead of the benders progressing by mastering the moves and learning how to be more precise, consistent, accurate, and quick to the point of perfection, they somehow found a way to just "willbend." They could airbend, waterbend, or earthbend by doing nothing more than pointing at it and pointing where they wanted it to go.

    Imho this is a result of the producers/writers getting a little lazy after a while because this was almost unheard of in the first season.


    Thank You, good sir, for saying what I was trying to say in much better words; "willbending" is a gr8 way to put it!


    I can agree with that. I mean look at Iroh's fireball during Sozin's Comet. He charged it up, growled while thrusting forward and it shot out. I guess that was supposed to be in line with his mastered breath of fire technique but still. :/ Even Jeong Jeong, though beautifully on control of the fire, was just waving around his hands.
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