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Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

The Decline of the Martial Arts Aspect of the Show

Did ATLA Abandon Martial Arts part of bending?-If So, Was It Smart or a Mistake?

  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [41]Aug 22, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640

    I really can't think of any real examples of "simply pointing and directing". All of the moves, even the more powerful ones, seem to remain accompanied by an assortment of Martial Arts movements.

    Lets deal with your examples.

    sportsdude206 wrote:
    Some more examples: In "The Waterbending Scroll," Katara was teaching Aang to push and pull the water; she said it was all about getting the wrist movement perfectly. This was probably the simplest waterbending move known to man, and yet it still took a good deal of precision. However, in "The Southern Raiders," Katara simply stood on one foot and thought real hard, and the rain just stopped. In "The Avatar State," General Fong merely needed to close his hand to bury Katara alive. Whenever Aang entered the avatar state, all he had to do was point at any element he wanted to bend; and it would become an unstoppable and deadly force. I completely understand what the TC is saying, and I agree. Instead of the benders progressing by mastering the moves and learning how to be more precise, consistent, accurate, and quick to the point of perfection, they somehow found a way to just "willbend." They could airbend, waterbend, or earthbend by doing nothing more than pointing at it and pointing where they wanted it to go. Imho this is a result of the producers/writers getting a little lazy after a while because this was almost unheard of in the first season.

    The Southern Raiders:

    Katara did not simply "stand on one foot and think really hard". Instead, she made a fairly wide and complex looking gesture with her arms while twisting her body sharply. After the rain stopped, she continued with the body movements.

    The Avatar State:

    General Phong used what was definitely a martial arts movement to initially trap Katara; sinking her up to her waist. That move presumably gave him extended control over the rock to the point that he could tone it down to hand gestures, which still apparently needed to be fairly firm and precise.

    You are completely wrong about the avatar state. Throughout the entire fight sequence with Ozai Aang was going through what looked like a highly complex dance, consisting of martial arts movements, needed to control the elements.

    The creators have not become lazy; far from it - the bending has simply increased in power while the gestures have remained the same.

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  • Avatar of Falcondude123

    Falcondude123

    [42]Aug 22, 2008
    • member since: 09/24/06
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,602
    TheGreatBishop wrote:

    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Ozai shooting lightning without any martial art setup, just flickin his wrist! DUH!!
    That never happened, he did set it up.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Toph making an impossibly detailed sand-castle replica of BaSingSe with a simple step into the ground! DUH!!!
    She had already built the castle, and just hit the ground to show everyone.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Zuko casting massive flames at Azula just by slowly swinging his arms together! DUH!!!
    That was during Sozin's Comet when everyone got a massive boost of power.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    Seriously, guys, it seems like the power of these characters was totally exagerated in the latest parts of the series!! Just look carefully and you can see a billion of these examples!!! It used to be that the characters had to really do amazing or complex moves to do even a little bit of bending, (especially waterbending; the whole TaiChi thing)
    In the very first episode Katara was waterbending without doing complex moves at all. Same with Aang and his airball.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    they raise their arms and breathe and suddenly Azula is in chains, or vice-versa.
    That's not even how it happened, you're clearly exagerating, she used hand motions to lift the water from below to encase them in the water bubble, she didn't just breathe.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    C'mon, guys, I know it's a cardinal sin on these forums to express any regret over what the creators decided, but be honest; it's pretty obvious that the level of bending is no more connected to the level of martial arts mastery.
    I guess later on in the series the creators decided to show us more creative ways to bend instead of only using martial arts.

    Personally that wasn't really a big problem with hence why I didn't really notice it, but I can see how a few people might find that upsetting.


    Okay, ur formatting makes it hard to reply concisely, but here it is: (please don't do tha wierd formatting again)
    1. Yes, Ozai pretty much did just flick his wrists at Zuko. Watc every other time someone bends lightning, and you see that they do a side-to-side sway to set it up. Then watch Ozai in the Invasion twirl his fingers in little circles and he has whips a lightning coming out of his hands. So, again I say, DUH!!
    2. Okay, it's POSSIBLE she already somehow built it within the ground before pulling the extra ground away to reveal it, which seems impossible btw. Even if she did, being able to reveal it like that perfectly with just a stomp is pretty much overkill. Again I say, DUH!!!
    3. Okay, I will grant that the comet was to firebending what mushrooms are to Mario; uber-awesome power. But it shud only AMPLIFY power! There has to be power to start with! How does doing these slow movements have any power to begin with at all? Are we saying that a two-year-old who cud do these simple moves cud make flames just as big? Sorry, don't see it. But I will withold my 'duh', since this one is more subjective.
    4. Yes, Katara was waterbending at the beginning of the show. She cud barely make a little water ball to catch a fish, and could accidentally crack some ice. But that was it, and it was just raw, unrefined power. No technique. The point of bending is that it requires practiced technique to be effective, and the show strayed from that near the end. DUH!!
    5. Yes, I BARELY exaggerated the Katara-Azula thing, cuz it was pretty obviously lame. Katara raises her arms, which I'm sure she did the exact same way thousands of times growing up and yet never could waterbend like that at the beginning of the show, and she traps azula and wins the fight. That's how it wuz. (on a side note, how come azula didn't just melt her way through the chains like Iroh? Didn't cross her mind? Didn't cross Bryke's mind?)
    6. I respect ur opinions and your loyalty to Avatar. Please understand that I am just as loyal, but I am simply expressing my exasperation that certain things didn't fit my perception of how the series was originally designed to be.
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  • Avatar of Axrendale

    Axrendale

    [43]Aug 22, 2008
    • member since: 06/30/08
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 2,640
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    TheGreatBishop wrote:

    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Ozai shooting lightning without any martial art setup, just flickin his wrist! DUH!!
    That never happened, he did set it up.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Toph making an impossibly detailed sand-castle replica of BaSingSe with a simple step into the ground! DUH!!!
    She had already built the castle, and just hit the ground to show everyone.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    -Zuko casting massive flames at Azula just by slowly swinging his arms together! DUH!!!
    That was during Sozin's Comet when everyone got a massive boost of power.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    Seriously, guys, it seems like the power of these characters was totally exagerated in the latest parts of the series!! Just look carefully and you can see a billion of these examples!!! It used to be that the characters had to really do amazing or complex moves to do even a little bit of bending, (especially waterbending; the whole TaiChi thing)
    In the very first episode Katara was waterbending without doing complex moves at all. Same with Aang and his airball.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    they raise their arms and breathe and suddenly Azula is in chains, or vice-versa.
    That's not even how it happened, you're clearly exagerating, she used hand motions to lift the water from below to encase them in the water bubble, she didn't just breathe.
    Falcondude123 wrote:
    C'mon, guys, I know it's a cardinal sin on these forums to express any regret over what the creators decided, but be honest; it's pretty obvious that the level of bending is no more connected to the level of martial arts mastery.
    I guess later on in the series the creators decided to show us more creative ways to bend instead of only using martial arts.

    Personally that wasn't really a big problem with hence why I didn't really notice it, but I can see how a few people might find that upsetting.
    Okay, ur formatting makes it hard to reply concisely, but here it is: (please don't do tha wierd formatting again) 1. Yes, Ozai pretty much did just flick his wrists at Zuko. Watc every other time someone bends lightning, and you see that they do a side-to-side sway to set it up. Then watch Ozai in the Invasion twirl his fingers in little circles and he has whips a lightning coming out of his hands. So, again I say, DUH!! 2. Okay, it's POSSIBLE she already somehow built it within the ground before pulling the extra ground away to reveal it, which seems impossible btw. Even if she did, being able to reveal it like that perfectly with just a stomp is pretty much overkill. Again I say, DUH!!! 3. Okay, I will grant that the comet was to firebending what mushrooms are to Mario; uber-awesome power. But it shud only AMPLIFY power! There has to be power to start with! How does doing these slow movements have any power to begin with at all? Are we saying that a two-year-old who cud do these simple moves cud make flames just as big? Sorry, don't see it. But I will withold my 'duh', since this one is more subjective. 4. Yes, Katara was waterbending at the beginning of the show. She cud barely make a little water ball to catch a fish, and could accidentally crack some ice. But that was it, and it was just raw, unrefined power. No technique. The point of bending is that it requires practiced technique to be effective, and the show strayed from that near the end. DUH!! 5. Yes, I BARELY exaggerated the Katara-Azula thing, cuz it was pretty obviously lame. Katara raises her arms, which I'm sure she did the exact same way thousands of times growing up and yet never could waterbend like that at the beginning of the show, and she traps azula and wins the fight. That's how it wuz. (on a side note, how come azula didn't just melt her way through the chains like Iroh? Didn't cross her mind? Didn't cross Bryke's mind?) 6. I respect ur opinions and your loyalty to Avatar. Please understand that I am just as loyal, but I am simply expressing my exasperation that certain things didn't fit my perception of how the series was originally designed to be.

    1: Ozai went through all the gesture that Azula or Iroh ever did. He just did so far quicker.

    2: I might grant you this one. Still, remember that this was a comic relief scene. I wouldn't dwell too much on it.

    3: Zuko did a lot more than just swing his arms - there was punching, kicking and general martial arts action all over the place if you watch him. There was just as much martial arts movement here as there has been throughout the rest of the series.

    4: Katara went through exactly the same motion to raise the water up that she did in "the waterbending scroll". And it should be noted, she was raising less water than Aang did back in that episode. The only part about this fight that I might agree was a little fishy was her ability to move through the apparently solid ice (it has to have still been ice because Azula remained imbolized). But appart from that one very necessary hole, it was just gold old-fashioned martial arts movements, no quality decrease, nothing to complain about.

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  • Avatar of replay104

    replay104

    [44]Aug 22, 2008
    • member since: 02/22/07
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 125

    Throughout the series so your saying mainly the 3rd season?

    DID YOU EVEN SEE THE FIREBENDING MASTERS? They learned a new Firebending FORM.

    this is complete fail....

    But I do RESPECT the originality in this topic choice!!!

    Keep up the good work>?

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  • Avatar of KatieMariex123

    KatieMariex123

    [45]Aug 26, 2008
    • member since: 10/15/07
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 146

    Falcondude123 wrote:
    (on a side note, how come azula didn't just melt her way through the chains like Iroh? Didn't cross her mind? Didn't cross Bryke's mind?)

    I dont ever remember Iroh melting his way through chains. What episode did he do that?

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