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Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Sozin's Comet (Series Finale) Official Discussion Thread - (*Major Spoilers*)

Rate the finale! How was it?

  • Avatar of zuko_261

    zuko_261

    [2961]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/06/08
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 66
    what is a spin off episode??

    is there actually a book on avatar? what is it called?? how many books are there??
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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [2962]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
    • level: 14
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    • posts: 3,383
    xdarkdudex wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.

    I agree with you totally, because the turtle in general seemed to be a very awkward device used by the creators to make so Aang could have his cake and eat it too.
    I've never liked that analogy. What else does one do with cake?
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  • Avatar of MarryLarry

    MarryLarry

    [2963]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/16/07
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 3,055
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    MarryLarry wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    WorldTyrant wrote:
    MaddoKos wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.
    Actually, we were just talking about how the lion-turtle had been foreshadowed throughout the series.
    If you want to call a few giant ugly statues foreshadowing.
    Exactly. And just because they established that the creature existed doesn't mean they successfully established it as a Chekhov's Gun. When the core emotional conflict of the episode is whether or not Aang should kill the Fire Lord, then it becomes a Deus Ex Machina to have a big turtle come along and give him a way out that doesn't have any consequences. They should have either had him make the choice and kill Ozai or spare his life and live with whatever consequences that entailed. IMO.

    Umm, Aang did make the choice to to kill or spare Ozai. He chose the latter.
    But there were no consequences. He didn't have to make a tough decision because he got to do what he wanted to do without anyone worse off for it but Ozai.

    Consequences? This is the end of the show. Any ramifications are arbitrary since they'd only have 6 minutes to show it when the fight was over. And didn't Aang have it tough enough as it is? What more do you want from the kid?

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  • Avatar of Andy639_basic

    Andy639_basic

    [2964]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/05/02
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 8,268
    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    MarryLarry wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    WorldTyrant wrote:
    MaddoKos wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.
    Actually, we were just talking about how the lion-turtle had been foreshadowed throughout the series.
    If you want to call a few giant ugly statues foreshadowing.
    Exactly. And just because they established that the creature existed doesn't mean they successfully established it as a Chekhov's Gun. When the core emotional conflict of the episode is whether or not Aang should kill the Fire Lord, then it becomes a Deus Ex Machina to have a big turtle come along and give him a way out that doesn't have any consequences. They should have either had him make the choice and kill Ozai or spare his life and live with whatever consequences that entailed. IMO.

    Umm, Aang did make the choice to to kill or spare Ozai. He chose the latter.


    But there were no consequences. He didn't have to make a tough decision because he got to do what he wanted to do without anyone worse off for it but Ozai.
    At first I thought that he too would have to give up his bending, but the way it was done it still satisfied me.

    Can you explain how they could've make Aang spare Ozai and give up something?


    Well the most obvious way would be fore Aang to have spared Ozai, only to have Ozai lash out and attack with firebending, wounding or killing someone dear to Aang. Or perhaps Aang himself.
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  • Avatar of Bri_Beauty

    Bri_Beauty

    [2965]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/17/08
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 35

    zuko_261 wrote:
    what is a spin off episode?? is there actually a book on avatar? what is it called?? how many books are there??

    is that a rhetorical question?

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  • Avatar of hkulka2974

    hkulka2974

    [2966]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 04/23/08
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 1,568

    zuko_261 wrote:
    what is a spin off episode?? is there actually a book on avatar? what is it called?? how many books are there??

    a spin off series is based off the ideas of an earlier show but usually tells the story of new characters and main character and the plot is changed.(wsomeone correct me if i'm wrong)

    There is a book on avatar but it is a children's book and by children's i mean kids learning to read. its a picture book.

    i personally didnt read them so i'm not exactly sure about how many books there were

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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [2967]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 3,383
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    MarryLarry wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    WorldTyrant wrote:
    MaddoKos wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.
    Actually, we were just talking about how the lion-turtle had been foreshadowed throughout the series.
    If you want to call a few giant ugly statues foreshadowing.
    Exactly. And just because they established that the creature existed doesn't mean they successfully established it as a Chekhov's Gun. When the core emotional conflict of the episode is whether or not Aang should kill the Fire Lord, then it becomes a Deus Ex Machina to have a big turtle come along and give him a way out that doesn't have any consequences. They should have either had him make the choice and kill Ozai or spare his life and live with whatever consequences that entailed. IMO.

    Umm, Aang did make the choice to to kill or spare Ozai. He chose the latter.


    But there were no consequences. He didn't have to make a tough decision because he got to do what he wanted to do without anyone worse off for it but Ozai.
    At first I thought that he too would have to give up his bending, but the way it was done it still satisfied me.

    Can you explain how they could've make Aang spare Ozai and give up something?


    Well the most obvious way would be fore Aang to have spared Ozai, only to have Ozai lash out and attack with firebending, wounding or killing someone dear to Aang. Or perhaps Aang himself.
    Interesting, but I don't know if I would've liked that ending, it would've seen so against the feel of Avatar.

    If this were Batman than I'd understand, but for Avatar such an ending just seems, wrong.
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  • Avatar of Andy639_basic

    Andy639_basic

    [2968]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/05/02
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 8,268
    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    MarryLarry wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    WorldTyrant wrote:
    MaddoKos wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.
    Actually, we were just talking about how the lion-turtle had been foreshadowed throughout the series.
    If you want to call a few giant ugly statues foreshadowing.
    Exactly. And just because they established that the creature existed doesn't mean they successfully established it as a Chekhov's Gun. When the core emotional conflict of the episode is whether or not Aang should kill the Fire Lord, then it becomes a Deus Ex Machina to have a big turtle come along and give him a way out that doesn't have any consequences. They should have either had him make the choice and kill Ozai or spare his life and live with whatever consequences that entailed. IMO.

    Umm, Aang did make the choice to to kill or spare Ozai. He chose the latter.


    But there were no consequences. He didn't have to make a tough decision because he got to do what he wanted to do without anyone worse off for it but Ozai.
    At first I thought that he too would have to give up his bending, but the way it was done it still satisfied me.

    Can you explain how they could've make Aang spare Ozai and give up something?


    Well the most obvious way would be fore Aang to have spared Ozai, only to have Ozai lash out and attack with firebending, wounding or killing someone dear to Aang. Or perhaps Aang himself.
    Interesting, but I don't know if I would've liked that ending, it would've seen so against the feel of Avatar.

    If this were Batman than I'd understand, but for Avatar such an ending just seems, wrong.


    I agree, which is why I would have preferred Aang to have killed him. >_>

    Either that, or the way out of killing him have followed more from the rest of the season.
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  • Avatar of WorldTyrant

    WorldTyrant

    [2969]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 11/10/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 232
    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    MarryLarry wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    WorldTyrant wrote:
    MaddoKos wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.
    Actually, we were just talking about how the lion-turtle had been foreshadowed throughout the series.
    If you want to call a few giant ugly statues foreshadowing.
    Exactly. And just because they established that the creature existed doesn't mean they successfully established it as a Chekhov's Gun. When the core emotional conflict of the episode is whether or not Aang should kill the Fire Lord, then it becomes a Deus Ex Machina to have a big turtle come along and give him a way out that doesn't have any consequences. They should have either had him make the choice and kill Ozai or spare his life and live with whatever consequences that entailed. IMO.

    Umm, Aang did make the choice to to kill or spare Ozai. He chose the latter.


    But there were no consequences. He didn't have to make a tough decision because he got to do what he wanted to do without anyone worse off for it but Ozai.
    At first I thought that he too would have to give up his bending, but the way it was done it still satisfied me.

    Can you explain how they could've make Aang spare Ozai and give up something?


    Well the most obvious way would be fore Aang to have spared Ozai, only to have Ozai lash out and attack with firebending, wounding or killing someone dear to Aang. Or perhaps Aang himself.
    Interesting, but I don't know if I would've liked that ending, it would've seen so against the feel of Avatar.

    If this were Batman than I'd understand, but for Avatar such an ending just seems, wrong.


    I have to say that my first thoughts of how it would end when Aang began his "spirit bending" was that the price of altering another's spirit was that one's own spirit would be altered. Nothing can be gained without losing something else. I thought Aang would lose his bending as the price for eliminating Ozai (either his bending or him). I was somewhat disappointed that it turned out to be the super-special-awesome-rule-breaking technique.
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  • Avatar of Andy639_basic

    Andy639_basic

    [2970]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/05/02
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    That would have worked too... Aang losing his bending would be a suitable consequence, while still keeping everyone alive.
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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [2971]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 3,383
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    MarryLarry wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    WorldTyrant wrote:
    MaddoKos wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.
    Actually, we were just talking about how the lion-turtle had been foreshadowed throughout the series.
    If you want to call a few giant ugly statues foreshadowing.
    Exactly. And just because they established that the creature existed doesn't mean they successfully established it as a Chekhov's Gun. When the core emotional conflict of the episode is whether or not Aang should kill the Fire Lord, then it becomes a Deus Ex Machina to have a big turtle come along and give him a way out that doesn't have any consequences. They should have either had him make the choice and kill Ozai or spare his life and live with whatever consequences that entailed. IMO.

    Umm, Aang did make the choice to to kill or spare Ozai. He chose the latter.


    But there were no consequences. He didn't have to make a tough decision because he got to do what he wanted to do without anyone worse off for it but Ozai.
    At first I thought that he too would have to give up his bending, but the way it was done it still satisfied me.

    Can you explain how they could've make Aang spare Ozai and give up something?


    Well the most obvious way would be fore Aang to have spared Ozai, only to have Ozai lash out and attack with firebending, wounding or killing someone dear to Aang. Or perhaps Aang himself.
    Interesting, but I don't know if I would've liked that ending, it would've seen so against the feel of Avatar.

    If this were Batman than I'd understand, but for Avatar such an ending just seems, wrong.


    I agree, which is why I would have preferred Aang to have killed him. >_>
    But that in itself would warrant a bunch of new questions of the moral dilemma that Aang was in and his mental condition after the fact.

    I think after all the hardships that Aang endured, he's allowed this one time where everything goes just right.
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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [2972]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
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    Andy639_basic wrote:
    That would have worked too... Aang losing his bending would be a suitable consequence, while still keeping everyone alive.
    Hearing the Lion-Turtles words, I actually thought that was gonna happen.
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  • Avatar of MarryLarry

    MarryLarry

    [2973]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 06/16/07
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    Am I correct in assuming that a lot of people hate happy endings then? That having a perfect ending makes it imperfect?

    What would Aang loosing his bending accomplish? Why is it so important that Ozai dies? I personally didn't care whether he lived or died as long as he was defeated. Is death really that important to make all the difference from the finale being good and terrible?

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  • Avatar of MaddoKos

    MaddoKos

    [2974]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 05/19/08
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    suss2it wrote:
    Andy639_basic wrote:
    That would have worked too... Aang losing his bending would be a suitable consequence, while still keeping everyone alive.
    Hearing the Lion-Turtles words, I actually thought that was gonna happen.


    Well...he did come within a hair's breadth of having Ozai's spirit overwhelm him, instead of vice versa.
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  • Avatar of HopeHime4

    HopeHime4

    [2975]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/18/08
    • level: 7
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    • posts: 226
    suss2it wrote:
    xdarkdudex wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.

    I agree with you totally, because the turtle in general seemed to be a very awkward device used by the creators to make so Aang could have his cake and eat it too.
    I've never liked that analogy. What else does one do with cake?

    Once you eat the cake it's gone and you don't have it anymore. So you can't have it and eat it. In this case, I believe they are saying that Aang wants to spare Ozai but there was no way to do it, then the lion-turtle gave him a way out (thus having the cake, and eating it).
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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [2976]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 3,383
    MarryLarry wrote:

    Am I correct in assuming that a lot of people hate happy endings then? That having a perfect ending makes it imperfect?

    What would Aang loosing his bending accomplish? Why is it so important that Ozai dies? I personally didn't care whether he lived or died as long as he was defeated. Is death really that important to make all the difference from the finale being good and terrible?
    I loved the ending. I was one of the few that didn't think Ozai needed to die, and I understand why he didn't.

    HopeHime4 wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    xdarkdudex wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.

    I agree with you totally, because the turtle in general seemed to be a very awkward device used by the creators to make so Aang could have his cake and eat it too.
    I've never liked that analogy. What else does one do with cake?

    Once you eat the cake it's gone and you don't have it anymore. So you can't have it and eat it.
    So basically you want cake, but you don't want to eat it? That's illogical. What else would one seriously do with cake? That's like saying, you want oxygen, and to breathe too. Well no sh*t I want both. It's illogical to have the former and not the latter.
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  • Avatar of MewBunny1233

    MewBunny1233

    [2977]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 07/17/08
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 62
    good series wish they were more
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  • Avatar of meramax

    meramax

    [2978]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 04/13/07
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 11
    the end where anag and katara get together is wrong there only 12 zuko finding out where his mother is was a bad idea and they didnt explain it. they didnt explain where theyput azula she still has her bending and belives in the fire lord
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  • Avatar of DarkJediJCer

    DarkJediJCer

    [2979]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 10/16/05
    • level: 9
    • rank: Door Number 2
    • posts: 1,447
    suss2it wrote:
    HopeHime4 wrote:
    suss2it wrote:
    xdarkdudex wrote:

    Andy639_basic wrote:
    So... I have a question of sorts... Anybody have any thoughts about the fact that Aang didn't kill the Fire Lord in the end? Think it was a creative decision on the part of the creators or that Nickelodeon just wouldn't allow it? I'm kind of leaning towards the latter, because I think DiMartino and Konietzko are very smart and talented and would have forshadowed the way out of killing Ozai long before they actually did. As it stands, the giant creature giving Aang Energy Bending seems like something pulled out of their rear ends at the last minute.

    I agree with you totally, because the turtle in general seemed to be a very awkward device used by the creators to make so Aang could have his cake and eat it too.
    I've never liked that analogy. What else does one do with cake?
    Once you eat the cake it's gone and you don't have it anymore. So you can't have it and eat it.
    So basically you want cake, but you don't want to eat it? That's illogical. What else would one seriously do with cake? That's like saying, you want oxygen, and to breathe too. Well no sh*t I want both. It's illogical to have the former and not the latter.

    I never understood that either. Maybe you'd want cake just for the sake of having it...but what good does that do? You have to eat it eventually.

    Edited on 07/20/2008 8:04pm
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  • Avatar of suss2it

    suss2it

    [2980]Jul 20, 2008
    • member since: 02/02/08
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 3,383
    meramax wrote:
    the end where anag and katara get together is wrong there only 12 zuko finding out where his mother is was a bad idea and they didnt explain it. they didnt explain where theyput azula she still has her bending and belives in the fire lord
    Mini-series in production.
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