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Official Episode Discussion: Zuko Alone

  • Avatar of sly4me

    sly4me

    [401]May 24, 2006
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    bulefireskull wrote:
    she already know she back from whatever she came from red: that right no take this* start to hit bluefireskull with a bat* and that me: owwwwww that hurts
    so abusive, that one.
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  • Avatar of bulefireskull

    bulefireskull

    [402]May 24, 2006
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    red: so why do you care *keeps hitting blue with the bat*
    me: whaaaaa this hurts so much help me
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  • Avatar of sly4me

    sly4me

    [403]May 24, 2006
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    bulefireskull wrote:
    red: so why do you care *keeps hitting blue with the bat* me: whaaaaa this hurts so much help me
    i would help you, but my inner demon won't allow it.
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  • Avatar of bulefireskull

    bulefireskull

    [404]May 24, 2006
    • member since: 07/22/05
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    haha very funny owww stop it red
    red: this is my revenge remeber this anime girls hit harder then the villians.
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  • Avatar of MCMLXVI

    MCMLXVI

    [405]May 24, 2006
    • member since: 11/08/05
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    bulefireskull wrote:
    red: so why do you care *keeps hitting blue with the bat*
    me: whaaaaa this hurts so much help me

    1) Hurt so bad -- You make it hurt so bad.
    2) Hurt so good -- come on, Baby, make it hurt so good.
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  • Avatar of Colonel_Brian

    Colonel_Brian

    [406]May 24, 2006
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    Hurt two was really Perverted notice how it's in large
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  • Avatar of Sapientifer

    Sapientifer

    [407]May 24, 2006
    • member since: 05/25/06
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    I've read a lot of theories regarding the disappearance of Ursa, the death of Fire Lord Azulon,??and Ozai's ascension to the throne, but sofar I think they all seem to have holes in them.?? Therefore, I'm going to take a scientific approach and list all the facts which any successful theory must be able to explain satisfactorily.

    Some generalizations which were emphasized in the show:

    Azula always liesMother's are very protective of their childrenfire lord Azulon was a picture of health

    The time line:

    Zuko, Azula, Ursa, and Ozai attend the audience with Fire Lord AzulonAzula and Zuko, hear Azulon tell Ozai that he will be punished, but only Azula hears what that punishment isAzula taunts Zuko, saying that their father is going to kill himUrsa has a talk with AzulaUrsa wakes Zuko up at night to tell him that everything she's done she did to protect him, then puts up her hood and leavesthe next morning, Ursa is missing and Fire Lord Azulon has died.?? Azula seems quite pleased.Zuko finds Ozai apparently starring at the pond; he doesn't seem very happyOzai is coronated at Azulon's funeral and the person conducting the ceremony says that this was Azulon's dying wishNo one disputes Ozai's claim to the throne including Iroh who would presumably still control the army even though the seige of Ba Sing Se has endedIroh doesn't seem to harbor any ill will toward his younger brother and Ozai seems to trust Iroh since we see that Iroh??was allowed to take part in the war council meetings

    Observations:

    It would seem that there must have been some very extensive evidence that Azulon really??did change??the succession order as his dying wish because if there were any doubt about it, one would assume Iroh would have the better claim in the eyes of the people of the fire nation since he was obviously the favored son, most of the army was probably still loyal to him (zhao addresses him as "hero of our nation"), and he was the first born so??he would have been the heir apparent for decades and everyone would have assumed that he would take over??some day.Azula is the only source for the story that Ozai's punishment was that he had to sacrifice his own son, and in point of fact, this is exactally the sort of story one can easily imagin Azula making up just to scare her brother. Then again, Fire Lord Azulon doesn't seem like a very loving happy person and other Fire Lords have been shown to be rather sadistic with their offspring, so it's not entirely impossible that she could have been telling the truth about that.Ozai clearly wanted to usurp the throne, so assuming he had a way of faking proof of Azulon's dying wish that he (Ozai)??become the next Fire Lord, then Ozai would have had a motive to kill Azulon as soon as he had refused to revoke Iroh's birthright and make him (Ozai) the heir to the throne.?? However it would have been extremely difficult to pull that off and make it look like natural causes and more importantly, that scenario would make it totally unnecessary for Ursa to disappear.?? In other words, If Ozai indeed had a way of getting away with??killing his father??and faking a change in the succession, then regardless of whether Azula was telling the truth about the punishment, it would have been completely unnecessary for any sacrifice to take place since if we assume Ozai had planned a way to fake the change in succession, it's also reasonable to assume he would have also planned an opportunity to kill his father before he could protect himself.If Ozai didn't have a way to fake the change in succession, then Azulon would actually have had to make Ozai the new heir as his dying wish.?? For this to have happened, something very dramatic must have occured to have changed Azulon's mind before he died.?? It's possible that this could be connected with Ursa's disappearance.??

    One intriguing theory??in this thread suggested that the real punishment might have been for Ozai to be entirely removed from the line of succession.?? While this is a very interesting theory,??I don't think it provides an adaquate explanation for Ursa's disappearance because even if she found out that Ozai had killed Azulon and usurped the throne for himself, when it rightfully should have gone first to Iroh and then to Zuko,??she still wouldn't have needed to leave (abandoning her son)??because Zuko wouldn't have been in any danger and he would have been next in line to be Fire Lord anyway.

    This is all the analysis??I can come up with at this point.?? In my opinion, there are probably still essential pieces of the puzzle which we haven't seen yet, so we may simply have to wait for these mysteries??solved within the show.

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  • Avatar of someone198

    someone198

    [408]May 25, 2006
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    mellomuse wrote:
    I stand by my theory that it's the total opposite of what everyone seems to be thinking... that, in fact, Azulon??promoted Zuko??(and gave Ozai the ULTIMATE punishment)??by making a written decree naming Zuko as Iroh's heir, since Iroh's only son passed away.???? I think that is what he meant by "the pain of losing a first-born son... by sacrificing your own."?? In that case, Iroh would again have a "son" and Ozai would not, AND Ozai would probably never see the throne because Zuko would now be ahead of him in the line of succession.
    ?? This is my favorite theory, too. But if it's true, it's doubly unfortunate that Zuko doesn't know it.
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  • Avatar of BradyBannister5

    BradyBannister5

    [409]Nov 5, 2006
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    bump.
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  • Avatar of MCMLXVI

    MCMLXVI

    [410]Nov 6, 2006
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    BradyBannister5 wrote:
    bump.
    Please don't bump a topic unless you have something to say. It looks like you were going bump all night.
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  • Avatar of conava

    conava

    [411]Dec 11, 2006
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    Here is my theory about Zuko's mom

    After she found out what the fire lord wanted Ozai to do to his first born, Urul(sp) made talked to her husbend,and asked for him to kill her instead of Zuko, Ozai loving his wife and his son (yes, I believe that he loves Zuko) after coumpleteing his wife request, by taking her life,and spareing her son, he went in to his father's throne room,and killed him.

    Tell me if you think this is logical or just plain stupid.

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  • Avatar of redgarlic68

    redgarlic68

    [412]Dec 11, 2006
    • member since: 05/20/06
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    someone198 wrote:
    mellomuse wrote:
    I stand by my theory that it's the total opposite of what everyone seems to be thinking... that, in fact, Azulon promoted Zuko (and gave Ozai the ULTIMATE punishment) by making a written decree naming Zuko as Iroh's heir, since Iroh's only son passed away. I think that is what he meant by "the pain of losing a first-born son... by sacrificing your own." In that case, Iroh would again have a "son" and Ozai would not, AND Ozai would probably never see the throne because Zuko would now be ahead of him in the line of succession.
    This is my favorite theory, too. But if it's true, it's doubly unfortunate that Zuko doesn't know it.


    I like that theory... and have one of my own, refering more to s3 anyways:
    So, let's imagine that Ozai isn't the *real* (well, legitimate) FL. Then there should be some evidence of who (probably Iroh, who was undergoing his own fever by the time of Azulon's passing and came out of this as a new person who wouldn't fight his own brother for the lordship), probably hidden or with Ursa, who had to run away because she knew too much and her knowledge was putting her children in danger. So, Zuzu goes back to tne FN, discovers the evidence and/or talks to his mommy and realized that his daddy isn't the one who should be firelord. This evidence could be furthermore used by the Medium Descent to ultimately defeat Ozai, since then he would not have tne support of his own people for being an usurper. Then the trone would go to either Iroh or Zuko, depending on Azulon's last will and Iroh's will.
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  • Avatar of DygitalNinja

    DygitalNinja

    [413]Dec 12, 2006
    • member since: 08/10/06
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    I don't think is some complicated guys

    Ozai killed his dad and made it look like it was from natural causes (maybe he know so cool firebending trick that does this) then he forged some documents or simply intemidated the right people too make himself the Firelord...

    really does Iroh seem like that time of dude that would fight for the throne so hard,he was happier running a tea shop than an army

    Ursa found out about it, and it put her life in jeprody so she ran away
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