We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Avatar: The Last Airbender Forums

Nickelodeon (ended 2008)

Official Episode Discussion: The Cave of Two Lovers

  • Avatar of mellomuse

    mellomuse

    [461]Mar 25, 2006
    • member since: 11/29/05
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 1,904
    coollop wrote:
    mellomuse wrote:
    OK everyone, enough about the shipping. (No offense to any individual, but I have my doubts that Song will return and we'll never know for sure if Aang and Katara kissed, OK?)

    What about the fact that one of the symbols on Zuko's ritual knife was featured in this episode? Am I the only one who thinks that is possibly a big deal? I catch myself wondering of the writers will sneak one of the symbols from the knife in every few episodes, so that a really obsessed fan like me can figure out what the knife says by season's end.


    Ah, that was the other thing I wanted to comment about... couldn't find your message though. I'm pretty curious about the one symbol- what did you say it meant, corpse? I hope we get to learn more about it soon!

    If I read my Chinese dictionary right, the one at the base of the knife that looks like a P means corpse. I don't know if that meaning stays the same when combined with the adjoining symbol though.
    The one second pair of symbols from the top is featured in Cave of Two Lovers as "enemies":

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of mistresskatara

    mistresskatara

    [462]Mar 25, 2006
    • member since: 09/26/05
    • level: 4
    • rank: Thighmaster
    • posts: 160
    Let me first say that I am for Aang/Katara all the way, so my opinion is not rooted in shipping-"denial" of any kind. Despite many fabulous arguments to the contrary, I just don't think they kissed. Why would the animators ruin their first kiss by not letting us see it? I think the point of that moment was to show that they *wanted* to kiss, and almost did. Doesn't anyone else think that Aang's reaction was a little underwhelmed afterwards considering that the mere thought of them kissing had him weak-kneed and googly-eyed?

    Enough debate about that, though.

    I'm pretty sure King Bumi is dead. He probably died fighting like Gyatso. Why else would Aang be looking for an earthbending master in upcoming episodes? (see episode guide, "The Earthbending Championship" I believe)

    And, enough of that depressing stuff.

    Now for song lyrics! I went though the trouble of transposing them because I love you all. Enjoy!

    ~~~~~~~~
    Nomad guy:
    Two lovers, forbidden from one another,
    A world divides their people,
    And a mountain divides them apart.
    Built a path to be together,
    *spoken*And I forget the next couple lines but then it goes:
    *rocking out* SECRET TUNNEL! SECRET TUNNEL!
    THROUGH THE MOUNTAINS!
    SECRET, SECRET, SECRET, SECRET TUNNEL! YEAH!
    (AND DIE!)
    ~~~~~~~~
    Nomad guy:
    Oh, don't let the cave in get you down!
    Don't let the falling rocks turn your smile into a frown!
    When the tunnel's as dark as that's when you need a clown!
    Hey, don't let the cave in get you down...Sokka!
    ~~~~~~~~
    Nomad guy:
    Even if you're lost you can't
    lose the love because it's in your heart.
    Ooo, ooo, ooo, ooo.
    ~~~~~~~~
    Sokka: Badger-moles, coming toward me,
    come on guys, help me out!
    (Nomads start up music)
    Nomad guy: The big bad badger-moles,
    who opened the tunnels,
    hate the wolf-bats,
    but love the sounds...
    ~~~~~~~~

    w00t. I'm sort of in love with that episode.

    Edited on 03/25/2006 10:19pm
    Edited 3 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of lunalretic

    lunalretic

    [463]Mar 25, 2006
    • member since: 10/06/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 19
    After consulting a good online dictionary:

    The first character on Zuko's dagger is 非 fei1 [1] not; negative; non-; not to be [2] faults; mistakes; evils; wrong [3] [v] object; refute; consider as wrong;

    The last character is 屈 qu1 [1] [v] bend; flex; bent; crook; bow [2] [v] humiliate; humble; submit; subdue [3] wrong; injustice; [4] in the wrong [5] be in an inferior or uncomfortable position

    I have no idea on the third. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

    And I thought the second character was 戰 zhan4 which means [1] war; warfare; fighting; battle [2] [v] contest; fight; contend [3] [v] shudder; shiver; tremble, but I guess it's not.....
    Edited on 03/25/2006 11:20pm
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of koikitten

    koikitten

    [464]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 06/03/05
    • level: 6
    • rank: Small Wonder
    • posts: 521
    mistresskatara wrote:
    Let me first say that I am for Aang/Katara all the way, so my opinion is not rooted in shipping-"denial" of any kind. Despite many fabulous arguments to the contrary, I just don't think they kissed. Why would the animators ruin their first kiss by not letting us see it? I think the point of that moment was to show that they *wanted* to kiss, and almost did. Doesn't anyone else think that Aang's reaction was a little underwhelmed afterwards considering that the mere thought of them kissing had him weak-kneed and googly-eyed?

    Enough debate about that, though.

    I'm pretty sure King Bumi is dead. He probably died fighting like Gyatso. Why else would Aang be looking for an earthbending master in upcoming episodes? (see episode guide, "The Earthbending Championship" I believe)

    And, enough of that depressing stuff.

    Now for song lyrics! I went though the trouble of transposing them because I love you all. Enjoy!

    ~~~~~~~~
    Nomad guy:
    Two lovers, forbidden from one another,
    A world divides their people,
    And a mountain divides them apart.
    Built a path to be together,
    *spoken*And I forget the next couple lines but then it goes:
    *rocking out* SECRET TUNNEL! SECRET TUNNEL!
    THROUGH THE MOUNTAINS!
    SECRET, SECRET, SECRET, SECRET TUNNEL! YEAH!
    (AND DIE!)
    ~~~~~~~~
    Nomad guy:
    Oh, don't let the cave in get you down!
    Don't let the falling rocks turn your smile into a frown!
    When the tunnel's as dark as that's when you need a clown!
    Hey, don't let the cave in get you down...Sokka!
    ~~~~~~~~
    Nomad guy:
    Even if you're lost you can't
    lose the love because it's in your heart.
    Ooo, ooo, ooo, ooo.
    ~~~~~~~~
    Sokka: Badger-moles, coming toward me,
    come on guys, help me out!
    (Nomads start up music)
    Nomad guy: The big bad badger-moles,
    who opened the tunnels,
    hate the wolf-bats,
    but love the sounds...
    ~~~~~~~~

    w00t. I'm sort of in love with that episode.



    I need to watch this episode again.

    By the way, I love you for getting these lyrics.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PrinceZukoLover

    PrinceZukoLover

    [465]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 03/19/06
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 2,194
    I personaly think that in a later episode Zuko will decode it for us the creators wouldn't put those symbols there for nothing what if that knife tells a short story.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of kittenluv5

    kittenluv5

    [466]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 03/26/06
    • level: 3
    • rank: Soup Nazi
    • posts: 11
    I agree. I don't think the creators would waste time putting the characters on the knife if they didn't have some signifigance that would later be explained.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of coollop

    coollop

    [467]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 07/31/05
    • level: 16
    • rank: Church Lady
    • posts: 705
    lunalretic wrote:
    After consulting a good online dictionary:

    The first character on Zuko's dagger is 非 fei1 [1] not; negative; non-; not to be [2] faults; mistakes; evils; wrong [3] [v] object; refute; consider as wrong;

    The last character is 屈 qu1 [1] [v] bend; flex; bent; crook; bow [2] [v] humiliate; humble; submit; subdue [3] wrong; injustice; [4] in the wrong [5] be in an inferior or uncomfortable position

    I have no idea on the third. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

    And I thought the second character was 戰 zhan4 which means [1] war; warfare; fighting; battle [2] [v] contest; fight; contend [3] [v] shudder; shiver; tremble, but I guess it's not.....


    Makes sense, considering what situation forced Zuko to using it. Good to know.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PrinceZukoLover

    PrinceZukoLover

    [468]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 03/19/06
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 2,194
    I just can't believe Zuko sank so low and stole that horse thing from song and her mom(I am still A zuko fan girl can't help it anyways....) I hope he never goes that low again.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of crusher_1011

    crusher_1011

    [469]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 04/02/05
    • level: 5
    • rank: Caveman Lawyer
    • posts: 343
    u know at the end when chong sais 'nobody reinact what im about to say i think that kid is the avatar' some ppl thought he was talking about sokka but actually his thumb is pointing to aang i know ppl might think it was obvious but i heard ppl say he was talking about sokka
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PrinceZukoLover

    PrinceZukoLover

    [470]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 03/19/06
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 2,194
    crusher_1011 wrote:
    u know at the end when chong sais 'nobody reinact what im about to say i think that kid is the avatar' some ppl thought he was talking about sokka but actually his thumb is pointing to aang i know ppl might think it was obvious but i heard ppl say he was talking about sokka
    ya that was a realy weird theory I can see it now Sokka the last airbender LOL
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of mellomuse

    mellomuse

    [471]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 11/29/05
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 1,904
    kittenluv5 wrote:
    I agree. I don't think the creators would waste time putting the characters on the knife if they didn't have some signifigance that would later be explained.


    Yeah, the fact that one of the symbols was featured and explained in the COTL episode (in the Omashu story) makes me think it's significant. Plus it looked kind of fancy, with the little piece of jade in the handle. I wonder who gave him that knife?
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of karatewolfpunk

    karatewolfpunk

    [472]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 06/17/05
    • level: 31
    • rank: Blues Brother
    • posts: 1,478
    mellomuse wrote:
    kittenluv5 wrote:
    I agree. I don't think the creators would waste time putting the characters on the knife if they didn't have some signifigance that would later be explained.


    Yeah, the fact that one of the symbols was featured and explained in the COTL episode (in the Omashu story) makes me think it's significant. Plus it looked kind of fancy, with the little piece of jade in the handle. I wonder who gave him that knife?


    His psychiatrist
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of mellomuse

    mellomuse

    [473]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 11/29/05
    • level: 14
    • rank: Autobot
    • posts: 1,904
    karatewolfpunk wrote:
    mellomuse wrote:
    kittenluv5 wrote:
    I agree. I don't think the creators would waste time putting the characters on the knife if they didn't have some signifigance that would later be explained.


    Yeah, the fact that one of the symbols was featured and explained in the COTL episode (in the Omashu story) makes me think it's significant. Plus it looked kind of fancy, with the little piece of jade in the handle. I wonder who gave him that knife?


    His psychiatrist


    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Stuwiebrianfan

    Stuwiebrianfan

    [474]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 06/15/05
    • level: 11
    • rank: Red Shirted Lt.
    • posts: 7,770
    PrinceZukoLover wrote:
    crusher_1011 wrote:
    u know at the end when chong sais 'nobody reinact what im about to say i think that kid is the avatar' some ppl thought he was talking about sokka but actually his thumb is pointing to aang i know ppl might think it was obvious but i heard ppl say he was talking about sokka
    ya that was a realy weird theory I can see it now Sokka the last airbender LOL


    Well that's why it would have been funnier if the hippie guy was talking about Sokka becuase we all know he's not the avatar LOL. I thought he was talking about Sokka too for a second, only from what the people on the net are saying.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of the_jaguarundi

    the_jaguarundi

    [475]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 07/06/05
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 203
    Not that my post was "the end all to discussion," but a few people after it have been saying that "No, they didn't kiss," without really explaining why. I'd like to hear discussion of the evidences I gave in my earlier post.

    Here it is, re-posted, so you don't have to scroll down. ; )
    A few of these, of course, are plausible even if they didn't kiss. So the weight is primarily on the strength of all the factors put together and on a few key points:

    *************************************************

    This isn't a shipping post. This is a post about evidence for what did or didn't take place in the episode.

    Unless someone shows me a screenshot of their shadows kissing in the dark, we don't know for sure if they did or not (as pooldude pointed out). But the evidence is as follows.

    At first, I thought that it was totally ambiguous. But watching it a second time on my DVD player (I recorded it), here's why I think they kissed, off the top of my head:
    ************
    #1: Either the magic lights are triggered by the Dark by itself, or they are triggered by a Kiss (most likely a kiss in the dark). Let's suppose someone got lost in the caves. Suppose they didn't get eaten by the wolf bats or badger moles. Suppose their lights went out. Here's what would happen . . .

    (a) If the magic lights are triggered by Darkness but not a kiss, then the lights would appear as soon as the lights go out. The person escapes from the cave scott free.

    (b) If the magic lights are triggered by Darkness AND a Kiss, than the lights don't appear, and the person doesn't find their way out of the shifting walls of the labyrinth.
    ************
    #2: The kissers' eyes WERE CLOSED and they were inches away from the kiss. The lights appeared too slowly and dimly . . . it wouldn't be bright/quick enough to interrupt them from kissing. I repeat, their EYES WERE CLOSED.
    ************
    #3: Following up on the previous points, the lights began to appear after the point at which they would have begun the kiss.
    ************
    #4: The "ambiguity" of the kiss taking place in the dark can be refuted by plot necessity and dramatic effect.
    ************
    #5: The magic lights appear specifically from where Aang and Katara are. It is a guide for them just as it was a guide for the two lovers of old.
    ************
    #6: Aang's "So . . ." right before Katara rushes off is relaxed and . . . confirmatory about what they had just done. His reaction appears to reflect that they had just kissed.
    ************
    #7: The animation draws out a dramatic explanation point with Aang's facial expression as she runs off. His pointed "rearrangement of his face" to that kind of smile reinforces that they had just kissed.
    ************
    #8: Aang tells Sokka rather giddily that they trusted in love.
    ************
    #9: Again, the animators remind us of what just happened by having Aang throw a bit of a CONTENTED sidelong glance at Katara, and then she blushes. Alltogether clear.
    ************
    #10: A kiss this early wouldn't "end" the series in any sense, for two reasons:
    (a) It was for "practical" reasons, though they clearly both enjoyed it (and enjoyed the thought before even doing it).
    (b) It won't necessarily be brought up again by the characters (perhaps later instigated by Jojo's events, though), as Aang initially had dug himself in that hole with the whole "I'd rather kiss you than die" spat . . . it would be too awkward for them to bring it up . . . I mean, come on, it was awkward enough for them to bring up kissing for PRACTICAL REASONS.
    ************
    #11: Lastly, the beginning of the episode demonstrated Katara and Aang's ever-growing bond/chemistry. I don't feel like describing this at length, however.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of the_jaguarundi

    the_jaguarundi

    [476]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 07/06/05
    • level: 8
    • rank: Super-Friend
    • posts: 203
    And the hippie guy was referring to Aang:

    1. He was pointing back at Aang while he said it.
    2. He probably wouldn't have called Sokka "that guy" when he was talking to Sokka.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of firesoldier1234

    firesoldier1234

    [477]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 08/23/05
    • level: 2
    • rank: Sweat Hog
    • posts: 73
    ok people this is my reason of how Aang and Katara didnt kiss.They didnt kiss because it was too insignificant like someone else said.Dont you people agree with that?
    Also the reason all or most of the Kataang people say that they kissed is because thats what their minds wanted to see, so they belived it.
    Edited on 03/26/2006 11:12am
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of karatewolfpunk

    karatewolfpunk

    [478]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 06/17/05
    • level: 31
    • rank: Blues Brother
    • posts: 1,478
    the_jaguarundi wrote:
    And the hippie guy was referring to Aang:

    1. He was pointing back at Aang while he said it.
    2. He probably wouldn't have called Sokka "that guy" when he was talking to Sokka.


    I agree with you with both kiss and avatar thingy. the hippie dude did point at aang, but I think he was reconsidering when he saw the mark on sokka's forehead.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of PrincessZula

    PrincessZula

    [479]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 09/24/05
    • level: 10
    • rank: Holy Level 10!
    • posts: 1,599
    This should probably we asked at the Ask a Question thread, but anywho

    How did Oma and Shu know that they could earthbend in the first place. Legend says that they were the first earthbenders, but you see the badgermoles earthbending how would you know that you have that kind of skill to?? I wonder how long ago that was as well because at some point someone is going to find out that they can control all the elements. Smae with the Airbenders learning from the bison and the waterbenders learning from the moon. So how do you knwo that you can only control that element. For all we know if they had gone to the north pole (example) and tried to bend water, could they have???

    I love this show its stimualting my brain, something bio class doesn't do
    Edited on 03/26/2006 11:33am
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of ISpeakTheTruth

    ISpeakTheTruth

    [480]Mar 26, 2006
    • member since: 04/24/05
    • level: 33
    • rank: Borg Queen
    • posts: 3,709
    I say Zhao defeated Omashu and that's why he got promoted in the Blue Spirit.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.