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MAN this aspect of waterbending has been bothering me!

  • Avatar of tigerstalksprey

    tigerstalksprey

    [1]Sep 16, 2006
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    okay, airbending, earthbending, firebending, all thats pretty cool w/ me so far, but whats really bugging me about waterbending is a couple of things:

    1. in "the drill" how the heck do aang and katara make water DENSE enough to penetrate and CUT THROUGH metal!?

    2. in that episode where uncle iroh gets injured by azula, how did katara make the water GRAB onto azula's arm and prevent her from shooting a fireball at aang earlier in the fight?

    i'm sorry if there has already been a thread on this, please direct me, but the more i think about the concept of water being strong enough to grasp a persons arm, the more it irratates me. water? cmon its the 'softest' stuff in world, it'll runs right off you, you cant even grasp water itself to begin with. i know water is a huge concussive force, such as when waves crash n stuff, but when is it SHARP enough to cut through metal????????? many things arent even sharp enough to cut thru metal. someone with the answers please enlighten me
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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [2]Sep 16, 2006
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    1. google "water jet cutter"

    2. ever seen the movie "the abyss"?
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  • Avatar of UGamer08

    UGamer08

    [3]Sep 16, 2006
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    Wow where to start. I have this big old AP biology book just lying around and I believe the first chapters are dedicated to nothing but the the potential of water. Nope still too lazy to explain it. I'll say this much: cohesion, hydrogen bonds, water molecule characteristics, and kinetic energy. Maybe if you're lucky dumbtvnut will ellaborate for you or somthin.

    Edited on 09/16/2006 9:18pm
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    Naruto352

    [4]Sep 16, 2006
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    Its sorta difficult, when you waterbend,??the water??pretty much does wat you want it to like grasping something, it becomes 'compact' I guess, with the cutting thing, they bend the water really thin and with alot of power, hope this helps
    Edited on 09/16/2006 9:19pm
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    Pharmacopoeia

    [5]Sep 16, 2006
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    She can make it ice. I assume that is how she grabs Azula's arm, by turning a bit of it into ice, but i could be wrong. As for the cutting, it is possible, if they make it really thin and fast (not hard) to scrap a bit away. Personally I think it would take longer in real life, but I do think it is possible After all, they use wires to cut granite and stuff
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    tigerstalksprey

    [6]Sep 16, 2006
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    well looks like the concensus is that its clearly possible and probable, but im too lazy to lookit up. i'll just suspend my disbelief for now...
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    GIVElove

    [7]Sep 16, 2006
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    1 i think for a split seccond??they freeze it hard enough so that it can cut through metal.... or the water cuts it somehow by moving so fast....

    2 didnt you see the cave of two lovers?? when she was teaching aang the octopus thing and he kept grabbing the icicles she was shooting at him and then at one point he grabbed her??ankle with the water? i mean if you can freeze water then it cant be hard to??bend it strong enought to grab something,....

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    UGamer08

    [8]Sep 16, 2006
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    Not a lot of science majors round here. Well the "builds power" thing is basically kinetic energy. And no, she grabbed while in liquid form. That being done with the use of cohesion. If you had asked later or earlier I'd probably be able to give u a lot more.
    Edited on 09/16/2006 9:24pm
    Edited 2 total times.
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  • Avatar of tigerstalksprey

    tigerstalksprey

    [9]Sep 16, 2006
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    UGamer08 wrote:
    Not a lot of science majors round here. Well the "builds power" thing is basically kinetic energy. And no, she grabbed while in liquid form. That being done with the use of cohesion. If you had asked later or earlier I'd probably be able to give u a lot more.


    oh well, sux for me then
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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [10]Sep 16, 2006
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    UGamer08 wrote:
    Not a lot of science majors round here. Well the "builds power" thing is basically kinetic energy. And no, she grabbed while in liquid form. That being done with the use of cohesion. If you had asked later or earlier I'd probably be able to give u a lot more.




    Don't temp me UGamer08. Seriously there is no science here, it telekentics. I lost any hope of explaining it scinetifically when they made the water fly... unless the air is actually a silicone with extensive alkane groups, AAAAH see you got me thinking! Now I need to get the head bashing hammer out again!

    tigerstalksprey, please look up water jet, some of the picture are really cool.
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  • Avatar of tigerstalksprey

    tigerstalksprey

    [11]Sep 16, 2006
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    dumbTVnut wrote:
    UGamer08 wrote:
    Not a lot of science majors round here. Well the "builds power" thing is basically kinetic energy. And no, she grabbed while in liquid form. That being done with the use of cohesion. If you had asked later or earlier I'd probably be able to give u a lot more.




    Don't temp me UGamer08. Seriously there is no science here, it telekentics. I lost any hope of explaining it scinetifically when they made the water fly... unless the air is actually a silicone with extensive alkane groups, AAAAH see you got me thinking! Now I need to get the head bashing hammer out again!

    tigerstalksprey, please look up water jet, some of the picture are really cool.


    okay, will do, and dont bash in your own head, its probably unhealthy to do something like that
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  • Avatar of UGamer08

    UGamer08

    [12]Sep 16, 2006
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    dumbTVnut wrote:
    UGamer08 wrote:
    Not a lot of science majors round here. Well the "builds power" thing is basically kinetic energy. And no, she grabbed while in liquid form. That being done with the use of cohesion. If you had asked later or earlier I'd probably be able to give u a lot more.


    Don't temp me UGamer08. Seriously there is no science here, it telekentics. I lost any hope of explaining it scinetifically when they made the water fly... unless the air is actually a silicone with extensive alkane groups, AAAAH see you got me thinking! Now I need to get the head bashing hammer out again!

    tigerstalksprey, please look up water jet, some of the picture are really cool.

    Well telekentics is science fiction, and science fiction is totally a real science. Look at all the The Science of _____ specials. .....Yeah. God I am so out of it.

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  • Avatar of Javier_89

    Javier_89

    [13]Sep 16, 2006
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    There's nothing wrong with people being able to magically manipulate water.?? It's when they start grabbing people with it that it makes no sense??? This is like Star Wars fans asking why the space ships make noise in the vaccuum of space,?? while they accept the equally impossible things which drive the plot.

    Avatar takes place in a world with rules different from those of our own, so not everything (especially the details of physics) has to make perfect sense.
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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [14]Sep 16, 2006
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    UGamer08 wrote:
    God I am so out of it.


    its the mushrooms.
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    metalcurtainrod

    [15]Sep 16, 2006
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    Javier_89 wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with people being able to magically manipulate water.?? It's when they start grabbing people with it that it makes no sense??? This is like Star Wars fans asking why the space ships make noise in the vaccuum of space,?? while they accept the equally impossible things which drive the plot.

    Avatar takes place in a world with rules different from those of our own, so not everything (especially the details of physics) has to make perfect sense.


    lol...

    good point
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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [16]Sep 16, 2006
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    Javier_89 wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with people being able to magically manipulate water. It's when they start grabbing people with it that it makes no sense? This is like Star Wars fans asking why the space ships make noise in the vaccuum of space, while they accept the equally impossible things which drive the plot.

    Avatar takes place in a world with rules different from those of our own, so not everything (especially the details of physics) has to make perfect sense.


    well grabing things with water (or a liquid) it is actually possible, besides what UGamer08 wants to get into, there also the issue of viscosity and metasolids.
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  • Avatar of Javier_89

    Javier_89

    [17]Sep 16, 2006
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    dumbTVnut, I don't want to contest your knowledge of science (I wonder how old/how much school have you've had exactly), but I know enough to know that cohesion, as mentioned by UGamer08 who just didn't have the time to exactly explain how it worked, between water molecules is quite weak, and couldn't hold more than a drop of water together, nonetheless pull a person's limb.
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  • Avatar of dumbTVnut

    dumbTVnut

    [18]Sep 16, 2006
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    Well that true but if we are talking telekinetics then the cohesive strength of water is variable, (in reality you could achieve it with mindless pressure and very low temperatures) you could turn water into silly snot (ever seen those toys you can buy for 25 cents out of a candy dispenser?) But yes this is out of my field and I???m only an undergrad so if you want true authority on this you want to talk to a material physical chemist.
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  • Avatar of omnimon2100

    omnimon2100

    [19]Sep 16, 2006
    • member since: 06/11/06
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    ok guys let me explain this once and for all:

    ??????On the holding the limb thing:

    ??????????????????water is applying the laws of?? h-bond(hydrogen bonding):

    ????????????????????????????????when molecule having??hydrogen and a bondable element(ex.O , F, etc.) makes intermolecular bonding it creates one of?? the strongest intermolecular bonding(others being dipole-dipole or london dispersion). This is why water has a high boiling point compared to other liquids.

    ???????????????????????????????? now imagine you tweek that h-bond and increase its bonding(via water bending). What d you think would happen?(a whip or lasso of tangible water) and other addtion is that water gets compact/more dense as it approaches 4 celsius and expands/less dense??when it goes away from 4 celsius.

    ????????On the water cutting themetal thing:

    ???????????????????? small amounts of streaming water paper thin can rip??anything at high velocity(both katara and aang was manipulating a small amount of water)

    ???????????????????? another explanation is simple weathering via expansion.??when they finally scratched even a little of the metal there is??now a hole. put water in that hole imigately make it to ice and let the ice expand and badabing badaboom more crack is produced(continue the process)(warning: extremely tiring)

    Note: not complete consult encyclopedis and i got bored to type more

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  • Avatar of Javier_89

    Javier_89

    [20]Sep 16, 2006
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    omnimon2100 wrote:

    ok guys let me explain this once and for all:

    On the holding the limb thing:

    water is applying the laws of h-bond(hydrogen bonding):

    when molecule having hydrogen and a bondable element(ex.O , F, etc.) makes intermolecular bonding it creates one of the strongest intermolecular bonding(others being dipole-dipole or london dispersion). This is why water has a high boiling point compared to other liquids.

    now imagine you tweek that h-bond and increase its bonding(via water bending). What d you think would happen?(a whip or lasso of tangible water) and other addtion is that water gets compact/more dense as it approaches 4 celsius and expands/less dense when it goes away from 4 celsius.

    On the water cutting themetal thing:

    small amounts of streaming water paper thin can rip anything at high velocity(both katara and aang was manipulating a small amount of water)

    another explanation is simple weathering via expansion. when they finally scratched even a little of the metal there is now a hole. put water in that hole imigately make it to ice and let the ice expand and badabing badaboom more crack is produced(continue the process)(warning: extremely tiring)

    Note: not complete consult encyclopedis and i got bored to type more


    In real life, metal can be cut by water shot at high pressures.

    As for the grabbing, H-bonding is not a good explanation. You really have to take this one on faith. They hold the water in place so it is essentially a solid is my best explanation, but it really doesn't matter how it works.

    Let the waterbenders have this one.
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