Avatar: The Last Airbender: Katara should have killed her mother's murderer

kirby145
[41]Jul 18, 2008
member since: 01/28/07
level: 3
rank: Soup Nazi
posts: 53
If you want to see a relation, see the Dark Knight. It's really an amazing movie and this is one of its themes.
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DygitalNinja
[42]Jul 18, 2008
member since: 08/10/06
level: 11
rank: Red Shirted Lt.
posts: 488
the DARK KNIGHT KICKED ASS

Joker : you won't kill me because of your twisted since of justice...and I won't kill you because your too much fun!
we're gonna be doing this for a long time

CLASSIC
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Teranef

[43]Jul 18, 2008

member since: 12/02/06
level: 4
rank: Thighmaster
posts: 228

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

ChaosBladewing wrote:

Teranef wrote:

pharmmajor wrote:

suss2it wrote:

And besides what exactly positive things would his death cause?

Justice would be served for the crimes he committed in the past. Plus, I would've gotten a good laugh out of it.

I have a question for all who may read this. When punishment neither deters further crimes or protects the innocent from them, nor does it teach the criminal or anyone else not to commit, then what is the difference between justice and revenge?

And what if the water tribe legal system had done slowly and methodically, after trial, imprisonment and court appeals, what Katara wanted to do when she began her journey, would that've been justice when Katara doing the same thing on her own is just considered vengeance? If so, if you believe Katara doing it is "not justice, just vengeance", how would the law doing it be any more then slow, methodical, state sponsored vengeance? The way people talk about this issue gives me a strange impression;

Killing murderers; when the individual does it, it's vigilante vengeance, when the state does it then it's fair justice

That said, I too would've had a good laugh if Katara had killed him.

Umm...I certainly never said that it was just if the state does it. Although for one thing the state has numerous appeals so they are not killing an innocent man, opportunities vigilante's dont offer. That being said, you did bring up an interesting point. What is the use of the death penalty if it doesnt deter or protect? Thats a discussion for another time and place though...

I know you never said it was justice if the state does it, and I never claimed you did. It was more a hypothetical "IF anyone reading this believes this, then what seperates justice & revenge? And if that's not what you believe, then ignore my question". It's just that I see people saying in, in many places and discussions of many things, "It wouldn't be justice, it'd just be vengeance." or in the case of a Twilight Zone episode about an ex-nazi getting tormented, "This isn't revenge, this is justice!" and I keep on having this re-occuring question I needed to get off my chest; What really separates the two?

Did you read my post?

Ooops, I missed it. I read it now, though.

Excuse me if I missed the point but it seemed to paint the picture

"When one person wants to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's revenge, but when one thousand people want to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's justice."

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NejiKusa

[44]Jul 18, 2008

member since: 03/12/07
level: 4
rank: Thighmaster
posts: 151

pharmmajor wrote:

NejiKusa wrote:

agreed, didnt like that episode, I want to see kids beat the heck out of each other on this show. Instead that episode seemed like i was watching some lame show on lifetime.

That's another reason I wanted her to kill him. The whole "revenge is not the answer" routine has been overdone. If she killed the guy, it would have brought a great change to her character. There could have been an episode dealing with the aftermath and how the others in the group saw her, what Katara's father thought, ect.

Right on

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suss2it

[45]Jul 18, 2008

member since: 02/02/08
level: 14
rank: Autobot
posts: 3,383

Teranef wrote:

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

ChaosBladewing wrote:

Teranef wrote:

pharmmajor wrote:

suss2it wrote:

And besides what exactly positive things would his death cause?

Justice would be served for the crimes he committed in the past. Plus, I would've gotten a good laugh out of it.

Killing murderers; when the individual does it, it's vigilante vengeance, when the state does it then it's fair justice

That said, I too would've had a good laugh if Katara had killed him.

Did you read my post?

Ooops, I missed it. I read it now, though.

Excuse me if I missed the point but it seemed to paint the picture

"When one person wants to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's revenge, but when one thousand people want to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's justice."

I see where you get that from, how about this:

DrAvatar wrote:

Part of me does wish he paid a heftier price but I would just not be happy with Katara taking revenge. Katara's first and foremost a motherly figure in the series. Having her viciously kill somebody for revenge just seems to far out of character.

I also believe if she had killed him it would have been straight up revenge. Killing the one that hurt you is revenge and nothing less. Justice is having a third party examine the situation, decide the fate of the killer, and have someone else execute the punishment chosen.

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NejiKusa
[46]Jul 18, 2008
member since: 03/12/07
level: 4
rank: Thighmaster
posts: 151
kirby145 wrote:

If you want to see a relation, see the Dark Knight. It's really an amazing movie and this is one of its themes.

I really didn't like dark knight, too boring, not enough karate kicks and what not
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Teranef

[47]Jul 18, 2008

member since: 12/02/06
level: 4
rank: Thighmaster
posts: 228

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

ChaosBladewing wrote:

Teranef wrote:

pharmmajor wrote:

suss2it wrote:

And besides what exactly positive things would his death cause?

Justice would be served for the crimes he committed in the past. Plus, I would've gotten a good laugh out of it.

Killing murderers; when the individual does it, it's vigilante vengeance, when the state does it then it's fair justice

That said, I too would've had a good laugh if Katara had killed him.

Did you read my post?

Ooops, I missed it. I read it now, though.

Excuse me if I missed the point but it seemed to paint the picture

"When one person wants to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's revenge, but when one thousand people want to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's justice."

I see where you get that from, how about this:

DrAvatar wrote:

I was just about to respond to that with a similar little one or two liner. Yes a third party decides the fate of the killer, but decides on death for what strikes me as similar motives as the vigilante. That definition of Justice covers V from the movie V for Vendetta killing people in the name of Valerie (the girl who was kept in the prison cell next to his), or really any other vigilante killing in the name of other people rather then himself. The court and prison system also kills in the name of other people, but unlike a vigilante it is a branch of the government.

I'm not implying that all justice is revenge or vice versa, but the line between the two seems quite vague and blurry to me.

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esquisofrenic
[48]Jul 18, 2008
member since: 02/26/07
level: 18
rank: Land Shark
posts: 2,041
i think that is you do something wrong you have to play the consequences...
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suss2it

[49]Jul 18, 2008

member since: 02/02/08
level: 14
rank: Autobot
posts: 3,383

Teranef wrote:

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

ChaosBladewing wrote:

Teranef wrote:

pharmmajor wrote:

suss2it wrote:

And besides what exactly positive things would his death cause?

Justice would be served for the crimes he committed in the past. Plus, I would've gotten a good laugh out of it.

Killing murderers; when the individual does it, it's vigilante vengeance, when the state does it then it's fair justice

That said, I too would've had a good laugh if Katara had killed him.

Did you read my post?

Ooops, I missed it. I read it now, though.

Excuse me if I missed the point but it seemed to paint the picture

"When one person wants to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's revenge, but when one thousand people want to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's justice."

I see where you get that from, how about this:

DrAvatar wrote:

I'm not implying that all justice is revenge or vice versa, but the line between the two seems quite vague and blurry to me.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. But I do not think that the justice system should allow death, life in prison is much worse anyway.

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ISpeakTheTruth
[50]Jul 18, 2008
member since: 04/24/05
level: 33
rank: Borg Queen
posts: 3,709
To me Katara made the right choice for two reasons. He didn't kill her mother because he got a thril from doing it he was sent there on order during a time of war to eleminate a possibly severe threat to the other side. If he was a monster than he could have had his raiders kill everyone in the tribe that day. What he did was wrong very wrong morally but he had the honor to tell Katara's mother than he'd leave the tribe after he found the waterbender and he did. A man like Zhoa would have stayed to kill them all but he left.

Secondly the man that he was after leaving the army didn't seem like he was a bad person at all. He lived a quiet life in a garden taking care of his mother who is probably older than the dirt he was tilling. This wasn't a bad man this was a man that did something morally bad during a war.
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suss2it
[51]Jul 18, 2008
member since: 02/02/08
level: 14
rank: Autobot
posts: 3,383
No, that was just a man that offered his mother's life in exchange for his own.
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ISpeakTheTruth
[52]Jul 18, 2008
member since: 04/24/05
level: 33
rank: Borg Queen
posts: 3,709
I think the writers put that line in as some dark humor... made me laugh anyway.
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suss2it
[53]Jul 18, 2008
member since: 02/02/08
level: 14
rank: Autobot
posts: 3,383
As it did me.
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isabelwhatx

[54]Jul 19, 2008

member since: 11/30/07
level: 14
rank: Autobot
posts: 6,106

ISpeakTheTruth wrote:

To me Katara made the right choice for two reasons. He didn't kill her mother because he got a thril from doing it he was sent there on order during a time of war to eleminate a possibly severe threat to the other side. If he was a monster than he could have had his raiders kill everyone in the tribe that day. What he did was wrong very wrong morally but he had the honor to tell Katara's mother than he'd leave the tribe after he found the waterbender and he did. A man like Zhoa would have stayed to kill them all but he left.

Secondly the man that he was after leaving the army didn't seem like he was a bad person at all. He lived a quiet life in a garden taking care of his mother who is probably older than the dirt he was tilling. This wasn't a bad man this was a man that did something morally bad during a war.

AHAHAHHAA. Do you realize that he gave up his own mother during a desperate attempt to survive? He's PATHETIC.

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Teranef

[55]Jul 19, 2008

member since: 12/02/06
level: 4
rank: Thighmaster
posts: 228

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

suss2it wrote:

Teranef wrote:

ChaosBladewing wrote:

Teranef wrote:

pharmmajor wrote:

suss2it wrote:

And besides what exactly positive things would his death cause?

Justice would be served for the crimes he committed in the past. Plus, I would've gotten a good laugh out of it.

Killing murderers; when the individual does it, it's vigilante vengeance, when the state does it then it's fair justice

That said, I too would've had a good laugh if Katara had killed him.

Did you read my post?

Ooops, I missed it. I read it now, though.

Excuse me if I missed the point but it seemed to paint the picture

"When one person wants to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's revenge, but when one thousand people want to kill a killer to make themselves feel better, it's justice."

I see where you get that from, how about this:

DrAvatar wrote:

I'm not implying that all justice is revenge or vice versa, but the line between the two seems quite vague and blurry to me.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. But I do not think that the justice system should allow death, life in prison is much worse anyway.

I was hoping you'd debate with me further. Anyway, agreed with you on that point except in cases of the protection of others (for example, imprisoned gang leaders can send messages and orders to kill to their gang on the streets).

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TVcompFrEaK90

[56]Jul 19, 2008

member since: 04/10/07
level: 12
rank: Evil Bert
posts: 102

DygitalNinja wrote:

the DARK KNIGHT KICKED ASS

Joker : you won't kill me because of your twisted since of justice...and I won't kill you because your too much fun!
we're gonna be doing this for a long time

CLASSIC

aww I wish I could see it! I hope I get to in the theaters.

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isabelwhatx
[57]Jul 19, 2008
member since: 11/30/07
level: 14
rank: Autobot
posts: 6,106
It sounds awesome, but I think I'll wait a while until the buzz dies down.
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tomtitan
[58]Jul 19, 2008
member since: 03/01/07
level: 19
rank: Fall Guy
posts: 10,891
I've said this before so I'll say it again. Could you actually imagine Katara killing someone in cold blood? Could you actually imagine her just deciding he should die and just taking his life? I couldn't, and if you could imagine Katara doing that you clearly haven't been watching the same Katara I've been watching.

Katara is a caring, determined, confident person who is occasionally controlled by her emotions. Killing someone is NOT something she would ever do. She said it herself, she could never.
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-TheSecondSign-
[59]Jul 19, 2008
member since: 11/03/07
level: 8
rank: Super-Friend
posts: 679
I agree.
If someone killed my mom, I'd hunt him down and slaughter him like a pig.
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tomtitan
[60]Jul 19, 2008
member since: 03/01/07
level: 19
rank: Fall Guy
posts: 10,891
What is wrong with some of the people here? Retribution is enough justification for murder? What happened to mercy? Compassion? Morals? These are things that separate us from the animal kingdom, you don't even need to include forgiveness on that list.

If someone killed my mum I'd want them to face justice, I wouldn't want to kill them, because if I did, how would I be any better than them?

Maybe Yon Rha deserved to die. Maybe the fact that he'd taken a life means that his life should be taken too, or maybe the fact that he now lives a miserable life as an old man controlled by his old other i enough punishment, but who are we to decide that? Who is anyone to decide that? Who has the right to make that decision? I certainly don't, and Katara certainly didn't.

There's a lot more to this than just revenge.
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Katara should have killed her mother's murderer

kirby145

DygitalNinja

Teranef

NejiKusa

suss2it

NejiKusa

Teranef

esquisofrenic

suss2it

ISpeakTheTruth

suss2it

ISpeakTheTruth

suss2it

isabelwhatx

Teranef

TVcompFrEaK90

isabelwhatx

tomtitan

-TheSecondSign-

tomtitan